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 Vulcan wrote:
At the cost of how many more points spent on this unit, AND having to spend still more points on your core tax...

I still say you could stash those characters with that boost into a unit of Skaven slaves and get much the same results.

So what you're saying is, a survivable BSB is less important than saving points?


To which the answer is no. The DPbus is infinitely better because it allows you to focus your character on killing heavily armoured stuff whilst the princes kill the infantry, as well asallowing your characters to be as defensively kitted out as they need, which is as good an armour save as they can get, or as offensively kitted out as they can get. In the bus this means a 1+ rerollable giant blade prince, a 1+ prince with the star lance and a prince with the sword of antiheroes/sword of might.


As for the core, just split the helms into units of 6, more mileage out of them that way.

How many points are normally dropped in that bus?

Over 1000 if memory serves.

Which puts you firmly into Deathstar territory. I hope you like killing a handful of 50-100 point units with your deathstar, because that's all a good player is going to let you have... while the rest of his army goes off to smash the rest of yours, for a 1000-500 VP victory.

 Vulcan wrote:
Which puts you firmly into Deathstar territory. I hope you like killing a handful of 50-100 point units with your deathstar, because that's all a good player is going to let you have... while the rest of his army goes off to smash the rest of yours, for a 1000-500 VP victory.

Have you ever tried controlling a game against someone with 1400 points of chaff?

Whenever I used the bus, I managed to get it where I needed it because I controlled the movement phase. Which was because I had 1400 points of chaff.

 Vulcan wrote:
Which puts you firmly into Deathstar territory. I hope you like killing a handful of 50-100 point units with your deathstar, because that's all a good player is going to let you have... while the rest of his army goes off to smash the rest of yours, for a 1000-500 VP victory.

Agreed this is why i prefer smaller Star Destroyers to DeathStars they work pretty well.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
Which puts you firmly into Deathstar territory. I hope you like killing a handful of 50-100 point units with your deathstar, because that's all a good player is going to let you have... while the rest of his army goes off to smash the rest of yours, for a 1000-500 VP victory.

Have you ever tried controlling a game against someone with 1400 points of chaff?

Whenever I used the bus, I managed to get it where I needed it because I controlled the movement phase. Which was because I had 1400 points of chaff.

High elves aren't exactly the best at the chaff game. That's where lizardmen, vampires and ogres come in.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
Which puts you firmly into Deathstar territory. I hope you like killing a handful of 50-100 point units with your deathstar, because that's all a good player is going to let you have... while the rest of his army goes off to smash the rest of yours, for a 1000-500 VP victory.

Have you ever tried controlling a game against someone with 1400 points of chaff?

Whenever I used the bus, I managed to get it where I needed it because I controlled the movement phase. Which was because I had 1400 points of chaff.

Repeater crossbows and DE chaff make short work of HE chaff.

Or I could bring my Khainite list, and the only thing you have to fight (aside from chaff) is 30 Witches... or 50 Executioners. And you'd have to work hard to take the witches without getting the Executioners. Your wonderful BotWD does nothing against KB...

 Vulcan wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
Which puts you firmly into Deathstar territory. I hope you like killing a handful of 50-100 point units with your deathstar, because that's all a good player is going to let you have... while the rest of his army goes off to smash the rest of yours, for a 1000-500 VP victory.

Have you ever tried controlling a game against someone with 1400 points of chaff?

Whenever I used the bus, I managed to get it where I needed it because I controlled the movement phase. Which was because I had 1400 points of chaff.

Repeater crossbows and DE chaff make short work of HE chaff.

Or I could bring my Khainite list, and the only thing you have to fight (aside from chaff) is 30 Witches... or 50 Executioners. And you'd have to work hard to take the witches without getting the Executioners. Your wonderful BotWD does nothing against KB...

The banner also does nothing against the S6 hits either. 30 to 50 S6 attacks is a big problem for dragon princes, even with the banner.

-Matt

I d run the DP as flankers, if you want to run a bus, go ahead and take silver helms, the characters do all the work anyway and they are cheap and resilient compared to most core troops.

buckero0 wrote:
I d run the DP as flankers, if you want to run a bus, go ahead and take silver helms, the characters do all the work anyway and they are cheap and resilient compared to most core troops.

I'd agree with this. I usually look to high elf core as the easy victory points. It's usually the specials and rares that are dangerous. Stick in a few beat sticks with the helms and now you got to work hard to get any points.

DarkAvenger, if you're even going to be in St. Louis we've GOT to get a game in. I rather strongly suspect both of us are going to be shocked with the capabilities of the other's chaff. Most of the guys I play with... well, I'm basically teaching them how to use chaff by beating them with it. It would be fun to get a REAL maneuver battle in!

buckero0 wrote:
I d run the DP as flankers, if you want to run a bus, go ahead and take silver helms, the characters do all the work anyway and they are cheap and resilient compared to most core troops.

Then you have an expensive BSB with the BoTWD and nothing other than a 2+ save for defensive purposes. No thanks. I'd rather help my important characters survive.

As one who ran the Hydra Banner BSB with my COK extensively, you overestimate the vulnerability of a 2+ save in a unit of face-wrecking heavy cavalry. Toss the BSB out on the corner to reduce attacks back. Better yet, between command and characters you've got enough 'must go into the front rank' models to put him in the SECOND rank to make your 'vulnerable' BSB is effectively immune to attack.