eldar howling banshee help

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**Araenion**

Nope. Not worth the points. But it does make Banshees at least somewhat fieldable. If you know of a better way to field them, let me know.

**The Shadow**

Exactly. We've already established that Banshees are a sub-par unit. But if you did want to use them, for whatever reason, that "Deathstar" is probably the best way.

**PredaKhaine**

The best use I've seen is actually from a BA player

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

As for winning with Banshees, I'd take a squad of five of them and keep them behind my Wraithlords and Wraithblades. On the turn that the wraith units hit combat, multiassault as many engaged units as possible with the banshees, spreading around the -5 Initiative to get your wraithlords swinging first and your axes swinging simultaneously with your targets.

**Fayric**

The Shadow wrote:
Exactly. We've already established that Banshees are a sub-par unit. But if you did want to use them, for whatever reason, that "Deathstar" is probably the best way.

I think the opposite, a low key low point unit that hope to shield the rest of the army from high I units and/or assasinate enemy hq is the only hope for banshees.
That is, field them as low expectation cannon fodder, and hope they will be a nice surprice mid game.
Cheaper than harlies anyway...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or walk them behind wraithblades and make a joined assault.
The wraithblades take the overwatch, banshees chop chop etc.

**Godless-Mimicry**

Fayric wrote:
I think the opposite, a low key low point unit that hope to shield the rest of the army from high I units and/or assasinate enemy hq is the only hope for banshees.
That is, field them as low expectation cannon fodder, and hope they will be a nice surprice mid game.

Sorry, how exactly is fielding an expensive unit as cannon fodder supposed to be a good idea? The whole point of cannon fodder is to be cheap and expendable.

**Rune Stonegrinder**

Since the fall of the No Armor Saves with power weapons to AP3 coupled with the Overwatch rule, there is not alot of use for Banshees. if your intent on using them I suggest using a wave serpent. Soften one of his flanks to reduce his fire power and then unload the Banshees (hidden behind the serpent or into cover). the danger is focusing your fire on one side of his battleline. good luck. no I haven't tried it yet but I've thinking about how to use them for a while now because like others I just feel they are not worth taking.

**serathnal**

As alex said, there's no benefit to the Banshees. I have been playing with Jain a lot lately and she is a wrecking ball but no reason for her to bring her girls. In fact she is probably much better off leading storm guardians for more ablative wounds. If you were going to use the deatstar above, I assumeHarleys would be better 95% of the time.

My girls look good on their shelf.

**ghpoobah**

Simple fact is that anything that comes with a power sword as a standard loadout, just isn't as good as they used to be.

If you are planning on running them you're going to need to make sure that your match ups make sense and don't be suprised when they don't make their points back!

When you take into account the fact that with a reasonable HQ choice Wraithblades become scoring thats one less reason to take the Banshee's

**theblessing8386**

Run them with Jan zar to allow her to roll saves as much as possible or use two far seers and try for fortune. That power makes any unit decent IMHO. Other wise a spirtseer shrouding them is pretty good as they can move pretty fast in cover

**Goobi2**

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Kain wrote:
Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Kain wrote:
Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Some of the posts in here have no idea what they are talking about, I find it frustrating when people give advice when they have no clue... Specifically calling out the guy that suggested wraithblades eclipsed banshees.. what a stupid comment..

Banshees can be used well, they are just not a competitive choice. They require very good positioning and strategy and as someone else mentioned they have very specific targets (anything with a 3+ save and average to low toughness) They are best used with something that can provide doom.

The hard part in using banshees is getting them into combat, to do this you have to do one of a couple different things:

The best is to use them as a counter assault unit, once something charges your guys you bring in the banshees to help them out. This is best done in foot lists as eldar have no assault vehicles.

Try to run them up the edge of the board behind cover with some suppression fire to keep the enemy off them until they can work their way into backfield.

or you can load them up in a serpent or falcon and buzz them around the field until needed or with the intention of dropping them off early, the key is to give them cover and let them do some running in the next turn to make assaults. There are obviously problems with this strategy because of the limitations of the vehicle in regards to assault.

overall, harlequins are a better choice because of rending, similar points cost, and higher survivability. Please do not listen to the people that suggested the wraithknight or wraithblades as direct alternatives to the role banshees play..

What does a Banshee offer that Wraithblades don't?

They certainly don't offer survivability or strength of attack.

How about being less than 50% the cost and insanely faster in every respect which increase survivability greatly

And?

The Eldar aren't the guard, they can't absorb losses very well.

Scorpions kill hordes better due to better weight of attack and hitting strength as well as a better Exarch (again, powerfist at initiative!), Wraithblades kill elites better due to better strength and toughness.

Banshees only excel at killing MEQs, and even then, with their pitiful strength they're not even amazing at that.

Im not sure if you are trying to support wraithblades or not, if you are you will lose this argument. if you are simply stating that they do the same job better than banshees you will also lose that argument.

First off lets consider that the wraithblades themselves are an elite unit, they would be a priority target for a unit of banshees. And a tough one at T6, one of the worst possible matchups according to you..

10 banshees vs 5 wraithblades

Points = Banshees win, 10 banshees costs less than 5 blades

Combat =
10 banshees on the charge = 31 attacks 20.5 hits = 3.5 dead wraith blades
the remaining 1.5 wraithblades lets call it 2 get 4 attacks hitting 2 and killing 1.7 banshees

In this one round of combat you lost 96 points (probably more since I gave you a half wraithblade for free) and the banshees lost 30 points (less because yet again im giving you the benefit here and counted 2 dead banshees instead of 1.7)

Before you complain and say "you are favoring the banshees by giving them the charge" If you let yourself be charged by wraithblades you are terrible at this game, banshees are a fast unit. Banshees are also not an equivalent to scopions, they have differnet rolls, they are not designed for weight of fire.

So, since when do banshees hit equal weapon skills on 3's. 30 attacks from banshees would do 2.5 wounds to a blade squad. That gives them a 50% chance to win combat depending on return attacks, with a VERY slight edge given an exarch (squad does 2.69). If somehow the blades managed the charge then there becomes 2 dead blades (1.83) and 4 dead banshees (3.75).

But unless we are talking jump or bikes I always think its a bit more fair to assume neither charged in which case we are still looking at 1.83 dead blades then 2.5 dead guard. Its equalized by banshee shooting, but if we bring in other variables the banshees will lose out due to non scoring squishiness.

Banshees are just barely faster than blades. OK the can run much further, but they can't assault that turn. Both need transports to be somewhat effective, both have an 18" threat range, both will wade through a turn of shooting before getting in. Your opponent is just as able to avoid either unit, but only much better at killing banshees.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Goobi2 wrote:
Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Kain wrote:
Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Kain wrote:
Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Some of the posts in here have no idea what they are talking about, I find it frustrating when people give advice when they have no clue... Specifically calling out the guy that suggested wraithblades eclipsed banshees.. what a stupid comment..

Banshees can be used well, they are just not a competitive choice. They require very good positioning and strategy and as someone else mentioned they have very specific targets (anything with a 3+ save and average to low toughness) They are best used with something that can provide doom.

The hard part in using banshees is getting them into combat, to do this you have to do one of a couple different things:

The best is to use them as a counter assault unit, once something charges your guys you bring in the banshees to help them out. This is best done in foot lists as eldar have no assault vehicles.

Try to run them up the edge of the board behind cover with some suppression fire to keep the enemy off them until they can work their way into backfield.

or you can load them up in a serpent or falcon and buzz them around the field until needed or with the intention of dropping them off early, the key is to give them cover and let them do some running in the next turn to make assaults. There are obviously problems with this strategy because of the limitations of the vehicle in regards to assault.

overall, harlequins are a better choice because of rending, similar points cost, and higher survivability. Please do not listen to the people that suggested the wraithknight or wraithblades as direct alternatives to the role banshees play..

What does a Banshee offer that Wraithblades don't?

They certainly don't offer survivability or strength of attack.

How about being less than 50% the cost and insanely faster in every respect which increase survivability greatly

And?

The Eldar aren't the guard, they can't absorb losses very well.

Scorpions kill hordes better due to better weight of attack and hitting strength as well as a better Exarch (again, powerfist at initiative!), Wraithblades kill elites better due to better strength and toughness.

Banshees only excel at killing MEQs, and even then, with their pitiful strength they're not even amazing at that.

Im not sure if you are trying to support wraithblades or not, if you are you will lose this argument. if you are simply stating that they do the same job better than banshees you will also lose that argument.

First off lets consider that the wraithblades themselves are an elite unit, they would be a priority target for a unit of banshees. And a tough one at T6, one of the worst possible matchups according to you..

10 banshees vs 5 wraithblades

Points = Banshees win, 10 banshees costs less than 5 blades

Combat =
10 banshees on the charge = 31 attacks 20.5 hits = 3.5 dead wraith blades
the remaining 1.5 wraithblades lets call it 2 get 4 attacks hitting 2 and killing 1.7 banshees

In this one round of combat you lost 96 points (probably more since I gave you a half wraithblade for free) and the banshees lost 30 points (less because yet again im giving you the benefit here and counted 2 dead banshees instead of 1.7)

Before you complain and say "you are favoring the banshees by giving them the charge" If you let yourself be charged by wraithblades you are terrible at this game, banshees are a fast unit. Banshees are also not an equivalent to scopions, they have differnet rolls, they are not designed for weight of fire.

So, since when do banshees hit equal weapon skills on 3's. 30 attacks from banshees would do 2.5 wounds to a blade squad. That gives them a 50% chance to win combat depending on return attacks, with a VERY slight edge given an exarch (squad does 2.69). If somehow the blades managed the charge then there becomes 2 dead blades (1.83) and 4 dead banshees (3.75).

But unless we are talking jump or bikes I always think its a bit more fair to assume neither charged in which case we are still looking at 1.83 dead blades then 2.5 dead guard. Its equalized by banshee shooting, but if we bring in other variables the banshees will lose out due to non scoring squishiness.

Banshees are just barely faster than blades. OK they can run much further, but they can't assault that turn. Both need transports to be somewhat effective, both have an 18" threat range, both will wade through a turn of shooting before getting in. Your opponent is just as able to avoid either unit, but only much better at killing banshees.