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Trying so hard to use my banshees but unsuccessful so far.

Thought of bringing Jain to help them out...

Anyone have any success stories for me? Open for ideas on how to incorporate them tactics and list wise

I've not found a way to make them work yet.

The best idea I had was using them as a counter-assault element in a foot eldar list.

My cousin plays eldar and has completely retired his banshees for this edition. Now uses wraith knights as his melee eldar unit. They are much much better at survivng to get into close combat, and then wrecking face when they get there.

Which is sad because I recall in 5th edition actually fearing that unit and doing my best to kill it as quickly as possible.

I personally think they still can be useful, but you would only take them if you knew you exactly what you were facing beforehand. If you have an aegis defense line and play whatever the eldar equivalent of a gunline army is, keeping them backfield to deal with deepstriking enemy forces should still be an effective use for them.

Wraithblades have pretty much eclipsed Banshees entirely, and even if you want a non-scoring melee unit in a codex with few ways to get melee units into the action, Scorpions tend to be more varied and useful, especially since the Exarch gets to swing a power fist around at initiative while mama Banshee only gets a power axe at initiative..

Banshees are now assasins. The unit is extra wounds for the exarch that try to challenge enemy hq.
Scorps has a similar use, and make for tough competition.

Its all about target selection. Expect to take losses before you make it into combat, so get a few more banshees to soak up wounds for the exarch and aim for them to take out a key character, or heavy weapons team, or artillery, or any small squad that needs to disappear. That extra 3" run per turn means you can USUALLY assault their front lines turn 2, even when traveling through difficult. Also don't be afraid of using wave serpents to get them places. Just try to drop them into cover, or at worst hide behind your tank for a turn, and again. keep your numbers up to protect the exarch, she's really the only one that matters.

The problem is explained above. The only advantage banshees bring is unit wide power swords. Otherwise they are weaker than Scorps at every level.

I imagine that wraith blades are better across the board as well (and no one uses those either)

Some of the posts in here have no idea what they are talking about, I find it frustrating when people give advice when they have no clue... Specifically calling out the guy that suggested wraithblades eclipsed banshees.. what a stupid comment..

Banshees can be used well, they are just not a competitive choice. They require very good positioning and strategy and as someone else mentioned they have very specific targets (anything with a 3+ save and average to low toughness) They are best used with something that can provide doom.

The hard part in using banshees is getting them into combat, to do this you have to do one of a couple different things:

The best is to use them as a counter assault unit, once something charges your guys you bring in the banshees to help them out. This is best done in foot lists as eldar have no assault vehicles.

Try to run them up the edge of the board behind cover with some suppression fire to keep the enemy off them until they can work their way into backfield.

or you can load them up in a serpent or falcon and buzz them around the field until needed or with the intention of dropping them off early, the key is to give them cover and let them do some running in the next turn to make assaults. There are obviously problems with this strategy because of the limitations of the vehicle in regards to assault.

overall, harlequins are a better choice because of rending, similar points cost, and higher survivability. Please do not listen to the people that suggested the wraithknight or wraithblades as direct alternatives to the role banshees play..

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Some of the posts in here have no idea what they are talking about, I find it frustrating when people give advice when they have no clue... Specifically calling out the guy that suggested wraithblades eclipsed banshees.. what a stupid comment..

Banshees can be used well, they are just not a competitive choice. They require very good positioning and strategy and as someone else mentioned they have very specific targets (anything with a 3+ save and average to low toughness) They are best used with something that can provide doom.

The hard part in using banshees is getting them into combat, to do this you have to do one of a couple different things:

The best is to use them as a counter assault unit, once something charges your guys you bring in the banshees to help them out. This is best done in foot lists as eldar have no assault vehicles.

Try to run them up the edge of the board behind cover with some suppression fire to keep the enemy off them until they can work their way into backfield.

or you can load them up in a serpent or falcon and buzz them around the field until needed or with the intention of dropping them off early, the key is to give them cover and let them do some running in the next turn to make assaults. There are obviously problems with this strategy because of the limitations of the vehicle in regards to assault.

overall, harlequins are a better choice because of rending, similar points cost, and higher survivability. Please do not listen to the people that suggested the wraithknight or wraithblades as direct alternatives to the role banshees play..

What does a Banshee offer that Wraithblades don't?

They certainly don't offer survivability or strength of attack.

It's the S3 and extremely poor survivability that kills Banshees.

S3 means they aren't even really optimal against their intended targets (MEQs) because they don't get enough wounds on.

Wraithblades have S5 at base so they'll be butchering said MEQs.

 Kain wrote:

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Some of the posts in here have no idea what they are talking about, I find it frustrating when people give advice when they have no clue... Specifically calling out the guy that suggested wraithblades eclipsed banshees.. what a stupid comment..

Banshees can be used well, they are just not a competitive choice. They require very good positioning and strategy and as someone else mentioned they have very specific targets (anything with a 3+ save and average to low toughness) They are best used with something that can provide doom.

The hard part in using banshees is getting them into combat, to do this you have to do one of a couple different things:

The best is to use them as a counter assault unit, once something charges your guys you bring in the banshees to help them out. This is best done in foot lists as eldar have no assault vehicles.

Try to run them up the edge of the board behind cover with some suppression fire to keep the enemy off them until they can work their way into backfield.

or you can load them up in a serpent or falcon and buzz them around the field until needed or with the intention of dropping them off early, the key is to give them cover and let them do some running in the next turn to make assaults. There are obviously problems with this strategy because of the limitations of the vehicle in regards to assault.

overall, harlequins are a better choice because of rending, similar points cost, and higher survivability. Please do not listen to the people that suggested the wraithknight or wraithblades as direct alternatives to the role banshees play..

What does a Banshee offer that Wraithblades don't?

They certainly don't offer survivability or strength of attack.

How about being less than 50% the cost and insanely faster in every respect which increase survivability greatly

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Some of the posts in here have no idea what they are talking about, I find it frustrating when people give advice when they have no clue... Specifically calling out the guy that suggested wraithblades eclipsed banshees.. what a stupid comment..

Banshees can be used well, they are just not a competitive choice. They require very good positioning and strategy and as someone else mentioned they have very specific targets (anything with a 3+ save and average to low toughness) They are best used with something that can provide doom.

The hard part in using banshees is getting them into combat, to do this you have to do one of a couple different things:

The best is to use them as a counter assault unit, once something charges your guys you bring in the banshees to help them out. This is best done in foot lists as eldar have no assault vehicles.

Try to run them up the edge of the board behind cover with some suppression fire to keep the enemy off them until they can work their way into backfield.

or you can load them up in a serpent or falcon and buzz them around the field until needed or with the intention of dropping them off early, the key is to give them cover and let them do some running in the next turn to make assaults. There are obviously problems with this strategy because of the limitations of the vehicle in regards to assault.

overall, harlequins are a better choice because of rending, similar points cost, and higher survivability. Please do not listen to the people that suggested the wraithknight or wraithblades as direct alternatives to the role banshees play..

What does a Banshee offer that Wraithblades don't?

They certainly don't offer survivability or strength of attack.

How about being less than 50% the cost and insanely faster in every respect which increase survivability greatly

And?

The Eldar aren't the guard, they can't absorb losses very well. This is an army that you have to go out of your way to minimize casualties with, and Banshees have a bad combination of T3 and a 4+ in an environment that is very lethal to low toughness 4+ save models.

Doubly so since 6e *hates* glass cannon assault models.

Scorpions kill hordes better due to better weight of attack and hitting strength as well as a better Exarch (again, powerfist at initiative!), Wraithblades kill elites better due to better strength and toughness.

Banshees only excel at killing MEQs, and even then, with their pitiful strength they're not even amazing at that.

 Kain wrote:

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Some of the posts in here have no idea what they are talking about, I find it frustrating when people give advice when they have no clue... Specifically calling out the guy that suggested wraithblades eclipsed banshees.. what a stupid comment..

Banshees can be used well, they are just not a competitive choice. They require very good positioning and strategy and as someone else mentioned they have very specific targets (anything with a 3+ save and average to low toughness) They are best used with something that can provide doom.

The hard part in using banshees is getting them into combat, to do this you have to do one of a couple different things:

The best is to use them as a counter assault unit, once something charges your guys you bring in the banshees to help them out. This is best done in foot lists as eldar have no assault vehicles.

Try to run them up the edge of the board behind cover with some suppression fire to keep the enemy off them until they can work their way into backfield.

or you can load them up in a serpent or falcon and buzz them around the field until needed or with the intention of dropping them off early, the key is to give them cover and let them do some running in the next turn to make assaults. There are obviously problems with this strategy because of the limitations of the vehicle in regards to assault.

overall, harlequins are a better choice because of rending, similar points cost, and higher survivability. Please do not listen to the people that suggested the wraithknight or wraithblades as direct alternatives to the role banshees play..

What does a Banshee offer that Wraithblades don't?

They certainly don't offer survivability or strength of attack.

How about being less than 50% the cost and insanely faster in every respect which increase survivability greatly

And?

The Eldar aren't the guard, they can't absorb losses very well.

Scorpions kill hordes better due to better weight of attack and hitting strength as well as a better Exarch (again, powerfist at initiative!), Wraithblades kill elites better due to better strength and toughness.

Banshees only excel at killing MEQs, and even then, with their pitiful strength they're not even amazing at that.

Im not sure if you are trying to support wraithblades or not, if you are you will lose this argument. if you are simply stating that they do the same job better than banshees you will also lose that argument.

First off lets consider that the wraithblades themselves are an elite unit, they would be a priority target for a unit of banshees. And a tough one at T6, one of the worst possible matchups according to you..

10 banshees vs 5 wraithblades

Points = Banshees win, 10 banshees costs less than 5 blades

Combat =
10 banshees on the charge = 31 attacks 20.5 hits = 3.5 dead wraith blades
the remaining 1.5 wraithblades lets call it 2 get 4 attacks hitting 2 and killing 1.7 banshees

In this one round of combat you lost 96 points (probably more since I gave you a half wraithblade for free) and the banshees lost 30 points (less because yet again im giving you the benefit here and counted 2 dead banshees instead of 1.7)

Before you complain and say "you are favoring the banshees by giving them the charge" If you let yourself be charged by wraithblades you are terrible at this game, banshees are a fast unit. Banshees are also not an equivalent to scopions, they have differnet rolls, they are not designed for weight of fire.

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Some of the posts in here have no idea what they are talking about, I find it frustrating when people give advice when they have no clue... Specifically calling out the guy that suggested wraithblades eclipsed banshees.. what a stupid comment..

Banshees can be used well, they are just not a competitive choice. They require very good positioning and strategy and as someone else mentioned they have very specific targets (anything with a 3+ save and average to low toughness) They are best used with something that can provide doom.

The hard part in using banshees is getting them into combat, to do this you have to do one of a couple different things:

The best is to use them as a counter assault unit, once something charges your guys you bring in the banshees to help them out. This is best done in foot lists as eldar have no assault vehicles.

Try to run them up the edge of the board behind cover with some suppression fire to keep the enemy off them until they can work their way into backfield.

or you can load them up in a serpent or falcon and buzz them around the field until needed or with the intention of dropping them off early, the key is to give them cover and let them do some running in the next turn to make assaults. There are obviously problems with this strategy because of the limitations of the vehicle in regards to assault.

overall, harlequins are a better choice because of rending, similar points cost, and higher survivability. Please do not listen to the people that suggested the wraithknight or wraithblades as direct alternatives to the role banshees play..

What does a Banshee offer that Wraithblades don't?

They certainly don't offer survivability or strength of attack.

How about being less than 50% the cost and insanely faster in every respect which increase survivability greatly

And?

The Eldar aren't the guard, they can't absorb losses very well.

Scorpions kill hordes better due to better weight of attack and hitting strength as well as a better Exarch (again, powerfist at initiative!), Wraithblades kill elites better due to better strength and toughness.

Banshees only excel at killing MEQs, and even then, with their pitiful strength they're not even amazing at that.

Im not sure if you are trying to support wraithblades or not, if you are you will lose this argument. if you are simply stating that they do the same job better than banshees you will also lose that argument.

First off lets consider that the wraithblades themselves are an elite unit, they would be a priority target for a unit of banshees.

10 banshees vs 5 wraithblades

Points = Banshees win, 10 banshees costs less than 5 blades

Combat =
10 banshees on the charge = 31 attacks 20.5 hits = 3.5 dead wraith blades
the remaining 1.5 wraithblades lets call it 2 get 4 attacks hitting 2 and killing 1.7 banshees

In this one round of combat you lost 96 points (probably more since I gave you a half wraithblade for free) and the banshees lost 30 points (less because yet again im giving you the benefit here and counted 2 dead banshees instead of 1.7)

Before you complain and say "you are favoring the banshees by giving them the charge" If you let yourself be charged by wraithblades you are terrible at this game, banshees are a fast unit.

And?

In a vacuum sure.

In actuality, your Banshees would have long been killed by literally anything that can shoot because by god is T3 4+ out in the open terrible.

It can't breach the overwatch of the Tau master race. It will be fried by necron fire while the Exarch kills her own squad due to MSS, it's not going to survive Eldar mirror matches, or live longer than it takes for someone to drop barrage shells from a guard list or however long it takes for a Heldrake to wheel around.

Wraithblades can take a punch from ranged fire.

Wraithblades can afford to stand out in the open for a turn after being deposited from a transport.

Banshees wither and die as easily as Fire Warriors, easier since there may be stretches where you'll have no cover at all or will picked off by any number of "lol, cover" shooting the game offers.

If you bring them in a transport, they will have to wait a whole turn and promptly die without doing anything from any more than Token fire from the enemy.

Wraithblades actually take a serious commitment to kill before they can charge.

Banshees I could kill with some guardsmen going "pew pew" the moment they exited their Serpent or Falcon.

Nobody around here uses banshees any more because the amount of firepower needed to kill them is absolutely trivial.

Oh and if the enemy is in cover, you go last or at best at the same time because you don't get grenades.

And generally speaking, going at I1 for a glass cannon melee unit is horrible.

Hell, even Wyches at least get grenades. And Wyches suck.

Id also like to mention that I specifically stated they worked very well when giving the doom spell which is quite common in most eldar armies since people usually roll on the eldar table with 2x farseers anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LOL so you decided to just regurgitate everything I said already about how to get them into combat as their downside while completely ignoring the fact that your original argument was based on their combat abilities which I just proved you wrong in.

Im done with this argument, it isn't worth arguing with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:

Im not sure if you are trying to support wraithblades or not, if you are you will lose this argument. if you are simply stating that they do the same job better than banshees you will also lose that argument.

First off lets consider that the wraithblades themselves are an elite unit, they would be a priority target for a unit of banshees. And a tough one at T6, one of the worst possible matchups according to you..

10 banshees vs 5 wraithblades

Points = Banshees win, 10 banshees costs less than 5 blades

Combat =
10 banshees on the charge = 31 attacks 20.5 hits = 3.5 dead wraith blades
the remaining 1.5 wraithblades lets call it 2 get 4 attacks hitting 2 and killing 1.7 banshees

In this one round of combat you lost 96 points (probably more since I gave you a half wraithblade for free) and the banshees lost 30 points (less because yet again im giving you the benefit here and counted 2 dead banshees instead of 1.7)

Before you complain and say "you are favoring the banshees by giving them the charge" If you let yourself be charged by wraithblades you are terrible at this game, banshees are a fast unit. Banshees are also not an equivalent to scopions, they have differnet rolls, they are not designed for weight of fire.

This isn't a death match. The fact that Howling Banshees beat Wraithblades in combat doesn't make them better overall.

Anyway, since you like doing maths, let's say 10 Banshees with an Exarch and 5 Wraithblades (equal cost) charge a unit of 10 Space Marines.

Space Marines overwatch. 20 Shots, is 3.3 hits. That results in 1.1 dead Banshee (so 9 left) and 0.18 dead Wraithblades (so they're intact)

Banshees first. 8 normal Banshees swing with a total of 24 attacks. 12 hit. Only 4 wound. That's 4 dead marines, 6 left. Exarch steps up. 4 Attacks, 2.6 hit, 0.8 dead. So lets say that's 5 Marines down. The other 5 Marines attack back with 10 hits, 5 hit, 3.3 wound and kill 1.6 Banshees. So, the Banshees took out 5 Marines and lost 2.6 (39 points) in return.

Now the Wraithblades. 15 attacks, 7.5 hit, 5 wound and so 5 kill. Space Marines strike back. They have equal initiative, so that's the full 20 attacks. 10 hit, only 1.6 wound, resulting in 0.5 dead Wraithguard (16 points).

So, yes, the Banshees hit just as hard, there's no denying that, but the lack of survivability really hinders them. Wraithblades do just as much damage, but take far less damage in return. Just in this combat situation, the Banshees take a lot more casualties, and this isn't taking in account that they've had to slog it up the board.

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Id also like to mention that I specifically stated they worked very well when giving the doom spell which is quite common in most eldar armies since people usually roll on the eldar table with 2x farseers anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LOL so you decided to just regurgitate everything I said already about how to get them into combat as their downside while completely ignoring the fact that your original argument was based on their combat abilities which I just proved you wrong in.

Im done with this argument, it isn't worth arguing with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Combat ability so great that my Kriegers have defeated them every time they tried before they were retired completely.

Banshees get out of Serpent.

Banshees get shot by platoon.

Banshees charge, Banshees suffer overwatch losses.

The few banshees left get brutally curbstomped by Guardsmen.

Tau? Same thing.

Necrons? Again, ditto.

Orks? Again, I've never seen banshees win assault against Orks because they have to get shot up twice before getting to swing.

Space marines? Bolters, more bolters, then they pull back and shoot you more.

There is no place in 6e for assault units that can't get through the shooting phase and overwatch without being left crippled wrecks.

It's why no one uses Genestealers, it's why Wyches are avoided, it's why nobody actually uses Kroots to assault, and it's also why the Banshee has been the unfavorite for ages.

I'd put Banshees with Flash Gitz and Pyrovores...actually I take that back, nobody is as bad as the Pyrovore.

 The Shadow wrote:

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:

Im not sure if you are trying to support wraithblades or not, if you are you will lose this argument. if you are simply stating that they do the same job better than banshees you will also lose that argument.

First off lets consider that the wraithblades themselves are an elite unit, they would be a priority target for a unit of banshees. And a tough one at T6, one of the worst possible matchups according to you..

10 banshees vs 5 wraithblades

Points = Banshees win, 10 banshees costs less than 5 blades

Combat =
10 banshees on the charge = 31 attacks 20.5 hits = 3.5 dead wraith blades
the remaining 1.5 wraithblades lets call it 2 get 4 attacks hitting 2 and killing 1.7 banshees

In this one round of combat you lost 96 points (probably more since I gave you a half wraithblade for free) and the banshees lost 30 points (less because yet again im giving you the benefit here and counted 2 dead banshees instead of 1.7)

Before you complain and say "you are favoring the banshees by giving them the charge" If you let yourself be charged by wraithblades you are terrible at this game, banshees are a fast unit. Banshees are also not an equivalent to scopions, they have differnet rolls, they are not designed for weight of fire.

This isn't a death match. The fact that Howling Banshees beat Wraithblades in combat doesn't make them better overall.

Anyway, since you like doing maths, let's say 10 Banshees with an Exarch and 5 Wraithblades (equal cost) charge a unit of 10 Space Marines.

Space Marines overwatch. 20 Shots, is 3.3 hits. That results in 1.1 dead Banshee (so 9 left) and 0.18 dead Wraithblades (so they're intact)

Banshees first. 8 normal Banshees swing with a total of 24 attacks. 12 hit. Only 4 wound. That's 4 dead marines, 6 left. Exarch steps up. 4 Attacks, 2.6 hit, 0.8 dead. So lets say that's 5 Marines down. The other 5 Marines attack back with 10 hits, 5 hit, 3.3 wound and kill 1.6 Banshees. So, the Banshees took out 5 Marines and lost 2.6 (39 points) in return.

Now the Wraithblades. 15 attacks, 7.5 hit, 5 wound and so 5 kill. Space Marines strike back. They have equal initiative, so that's the full 20 attacks. 10 hit, only 1.6 wound, resulting in 0.5 dead Wraithguard (16 points).

So, yes, the Banshees hit just as hard, there's no denying that, but the lack of survivability really hinders them. Wraithblades do just as much damage, but take far less damage in return. Just in this combat situation, the Banshees take a lot more casualties, and this isn't taking in account that they've had to slog it up the board.

You gave the wraithguard a charging bonus which is something they will likely never get. It also isnt taking into account any strategy to mitigate losses, like I said if you just faceroll your way into something without any regard for what it is you're doing then obviously you're gonna have a bad time, also as I mentioned a few times it isnt taking into account the likelihood of doom being present, and I used the wraithguard as an example of a tough elite unit to kill because that was what he was comparing them to being able to kill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
Id also like to mention that I specifically stated they worked very well when giving the doom spell which is quite common in most eldar armies since people usually roll on the eldar table with 2x farseers anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LOL so you decided to just regurgitate everything I said already about how to get them into combat as their downside while completely ignoring the fact that your original argument was based on their combat abilities which I just proved you wrong in.

Im done with this argument, it isn't worth arguing with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Combat ability so great that my Kriegers have defeated them every time they tried before they were retired completely.

Banshees get out of Serpent.

Banshees get shot by platoon.

Banshees charge, Banshees suffer overwatch losses.

The few banshees left get brutally curbstomped by Guardsmen.

Tau? Same thing.

Necrons? Again, ditto.

Orks? Again, I've never seen banshees win assault against Orks because they have to get shot up twice before getting to swing.

Space marines? Bolters, more bolters, then they pull back and shoot you more.

There is no place in 6e for assault units that can't get through the shooting phase and overwatch without being left crippled wrecks.

It's why no one uses Genestealers, it's why Wyches are avoided, it's why nobody actually uses Kroots to assault, and it's also why the Banshee has been the unfavorite for ages.

Edited by AgeOfEgos

Ah yes, resorting to insults because you have no argument.

If you can tell me of where I can find these magical banshees that can survive being shot at heavily, please tell me of them, my wife would like to remove hers from the shelf and they certainly aren't in the codex.

As it stands, Banshees will die to a stiff breeze from shooting, then die more to overwatch, then die more to having to go at the same time as the gunlines in or behind cover they're charging.

Oh and if they are marines, to add insult to injury even if you win the Marines just pull back and shoot you.

All in all, a poor unit with no real place in optimized lists.

Wraith blades still charge 2D6, they may not have a re-roll but they're hardly immobile. You're evidently very keen about "doing things properly" and if you're doing just that, you should be able to get them the charge.

And how exactly do you plan on minimising casulties for howling banshees? And don't say cover. Again, every turn your banshees are trying to pick their way through a wood or trying to hide, they're not in combat, and aren't getting there quick enough. Every combat unit needs to get to combat as quickly as possible. There's still literally no way you can make howling banshees more survivable that wraithblades, without being able to apply the same tactics to the wraithblades with better results.

Banshees don't really have a chance, harlequins & wraithblades beat them in this edition by far. I have 30 banshees myself and I used to run a banshee rush all the time. It worked like half the time haha but it was always a hell of a lot of fun. Just going to have to wait see if maybe a biel-tan supplement will have something for them.

Banshees suck.

Why? Because they offer absolutely nothing.

They don't score.

They either pose a threat, in which case they'll be gunned down witout mercy. Or, they don't pose a threat and will simply be ignored.

I have never seen an argument in favour of Banshees that does not in its entirety rely on stupid opponents.

How do you all feel about adding Jain to make them worthwhile?

Makes them even faster and if she's up front it gives the group 2+ armor. Round 1 Jain + squad run to charge distance (tricky though... Don't want too close or they get charged and lose benefits, too far and they fail the charge in round 2). Round 2 Jain splits off to take on a unit by herself and lets the squad work over a different squad.

Issues: still majority t3 during foe's shooting phase which means Jain has to roll LOTS of saves. As any terminator player knows 2+ is not invulnerable tomass fire. Also that's close to 400 points just to make that happen. NEEDS psyker support. Unlikely to survive more than one assault. Can't handle dreads or other walkers at all. Still strikes simultaneous with anything in cover.

I am not giving up on my banshees yet.

Maybe if I have a cc oriented list they would find a home. Avatar, Jain, scorps, banshees, wraithlords, wraithblades in a serpent- all on the table and maybe.... Would certainly be fun to run!

You could make a Banshee Deathstar, though I use the term "Deathstar" very loosely, since there might not be that much death involved. At least not for the points you're paying. But it'd be fun

10 Banshees + Jain + Farseer would work alright if you rolled Fortune. Jain Zar goes up front with a re-rollable 2+ save. The Farseer goes right behind and Look Out Sir Ma'am's the AP2 or AP1 hits with a re-rollable 4++, up until the Farseer/Jain are on one wound, at which point it's probably best to start sacrificing normal Banshees. There's a few ways you could make it deadlier, if you're willing to dump more points in it. Replacing the Farseer with Eldrad gives you better chance at rolling Fortune, as well as a re-rollable 3++ instead of 4++ as well as extra punch in CC and better psychic support. If you're playing double FOC, you could add in a Spiritseer and default to conceal, so if you stick to cover you could be looking at a re-rollable 3+ cover save. If Eldrad's in the unit as well, you can use his Warlord Trait one turn for a 4+ cover in the open, and you could quite easily get a 2+ re-rollable cover on the unit for one turn.

Say you've got Eldrad in the unit, if you hit the enemy with zero casualties. You're looking at 6 WS7, I7, S4 AP2 attacks that re-roll wounds from Jain; 3 WS 5, I5, AP3, Fleshbane, Force attacks from Eldrad; 3 WS5, I6, S5 AP2 attacks from the Exarch and 27 WS4, I5, S3 AP3 attacks from the rest of the Banshees. All of those attacks are likely to be re-rolling to hit from Doom. If you do manage to put the Spiritseer in the unit as well, it's second power could help too. You could get +1 WS and +1 I for everyone or, better still, reduce the save of the enemy by 1, making it really easy to obliterate TEQs as well as MEQs.

So, actually, that does sound like a hell of a lot of death, and I genuinely think that unit could take out any MEQ unit in the game, unless there's one with a decent invulnerable save and/or Nurgle and/or on Bikes. But it is very expensive. Though if you really wanted to run Banshees, that's how you'd do it.

Heck, I think I may have just convinced myself to give this a go...

No delivery system and no grenades; these are two aspects of Banshees that can't be changed and until they are they will not be good. The issue has never been the Banshees themselves but the tools they are given to work with. They struggle to survive the trek across the board and even if they manage it, then they charge and probably go last and get killed that way since any half-decent opponent will just leave his guys in terrain. It sucks because they are so cool, but it is what it is.

The lack of grenades aren't really a problem. Anything with I6 is reduced to I1 by the masks anyway. At the worst, you'll be striking simultaneously most of the time.

 The Shadow wrote:
The lack of grenades aren't really a problem. Anything with I6 is reduced to I1 by the masks anyway. At the worst, you'll be striking simultaneously most of the time.

Striking Simultaneously with such Fragile units isn't ideal after the mauling they'll have taken from getting shot and then going through overwatch.

Overwatch, and the restrictions on charging really limit Banshees. They may be able to kill one unit, but the process of doing so puts them at a big risk of being too degraded by wounds in combat and overwatch to do so again.

Wraithblades suffer far fewer casualties to small arms fire and return attacks.

But why would you take either when you can get a bunch of Warpspiders and blast the snot out of everything?

Why not ally a Baron in that "deathstar" that was mentioned above?

Eldrad, Spiritseer, Baron and 10 Banshees crossing the road...with 2++ in front, 3++ behind it, Hit&Run, Defensive and Offensive grenades, Stealth and Shrouded.

All for 565 points.

But tell me that isn't a scary, scary unit.

Kain wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
The lack of grenades aren't really a problem. Anything with I6 is reduced to I1 by the masks anyway. At the worst, you'll be striking simultaneously most of the time.

Striking Simultaneously with such Fragile units isn't ideal after the mauling they'll have taken from getting shot and then going through overwatch.

I know, I know, but at least it's better than going last.

Araenion wrote:Why not ally a Baron in that "deathstar" that was mentioned above?

Eldrad, Spiritseer, Baron and 10 Banshees crossing the road...with 2++ in front, 3++ behind it, Hit&Run, Defensive and Offensive grenades, Stealth and Shrouded.

All for 565 points.

But tell me that isn't a scary, scary unit.

Of course, I completely disregarded Allies! I never thought, this is a great idea.

 Araenion wrote:
Why not ally a Baron in that "deathstar" that was mentioned above?

Eldrad, Spiritseer, Baron and 10 Banshees crossing the road...with 2++ in front, 3++ behind it, Hit&Run, Defensive and Offensive grenades, Stealth and Shrouded.

All for 565 points.

But tell me that isn't a scary, scary unit.

This isn't a scary, scary unit. For its point cost. First its slow, for eldar anyway. 6 inch move plus run simply isn't enough to catch some enemies (Dark eldar, any mech, other eldar) and isn't fast enough to mitigate shooting damage by others. Second, the only saves worth anything are directly in front and are therefore can be avoided by any mobile army or any barrage type weapon. Third this is HEAVILY relying on Fortune to make that 2++ valuable (Most of the new armies can spam strength 6 like no tomorrow, 1 failed save and poof), and relying on a chance, no matter how likely it is, isn't a competitive plan. It also uses up ALL your HQ choices in an easy to kill package. Not to mention it wont even win combat with other, similarly priced or cheaper combat units. Swarmstar says Hi with its 445pts of 10 toughness 6 + iron arm wounds and being infinitely better in CC, albeit a little slower.

Any rate, it isn't the banshees that make that unit good, its the characters. You can make almost any mediocre combat unit a good combat unit f you put the right HQ's into it. Fuegan in a storm guardian squad with a spirit seer and warlock is a serviceable CC unit, but its not the guardians that matter. Even if you get your 'star' into combat with a vulnerable important unit, its still only has 30 strength 3/4 power weapons. Is that worth 500pts? Even if its that survivable, is that damage output worth the points?