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Exxile72 wrote:
You could give them Shred. It kinda fits since most choppas have spikey bits all over them. Its a pretty significant advantage with only S3, but it doesn't hose anyone's armor saves. Plus it kinda fits the ork style of overloading your enemies with attacks and just letting them fail saves due to the volume of wounds inflicted.

This seems to be the best solution I've seen so far.

Maybe make Choppa boys Str 4, but WS 3 as well, with their points likely staying where they are, they are supposed to be strong brutes...not quite master swordsmen...?

In conclusion
Add shred
Add Str 4
Put at WS 3

Maybe make Shootas Rapid Fire as opposed to assault so they can't do everything anymore (Diversifying the two unit types)

Exxile72 wrote:
You could give them Shred. It kinda fits since most choppas have spikey bits all over them. Its a pretty significant advantage with only S3, but it doesn't hose anyone's armor saves. Plus it kinda fits the ork style of overloading your enemies with attacks and just letting them fail saves due to the volume of wounds inflicted.

Just adding Shred is probably too much. That's a 50% or so increase in killing power (assuming a T4 target on the charge). Shred on a 'To Hit' roll of 6 would be less scary; around a 17% increase, against WS 4 enemies. Adding +1 S would be about 33% more killing power (or 11% if you only got it on a To Hit roll of 6), while Rending would be around 66% if the target was in power armour (22% if it only worked on a To Hit roll of 6, as I was suggesting) or 100% better against terminator armour (33% if it only works on a To Hit roll of 6). Going back to the old Choppa rule (maximum save of 4+) would make them about 50% better against power armour, 200% better against terminator armour and no better at all against anything with weaker armour.

Exactly which solution you prefer depends on what you feel orks need to be improved against and by how much, I guess.

EDIT: I've crunched the numbers on Shred, WS 3 and S 4 and they actually balance out to about 12% better on the charge (assuming you keep Furious Charge, no real improvement if you lose it) and 31% after the charge. Overall, you cause a lot more casualties, but also take quite a few more.

EDIT 2: I'm not certain that my math is totally correct, as I did it past midnight and now can't figure out exactly how I came up with some of those numbers...

Exxile72 wrote:
You could give them Shred. It kinda fits since most choppas have spikey bits all over them. Its a pretty significant advantage with only S3, but it doesn't hose anyone's armor saves. Plus it kinda fits the ork style of overloading your enemies with attacks and just letting them fail saves due to the volume of wounds inflicted.

but so many wunds that the 4 swings per model can produce is alittle ridiculous aswell

I came up with yet another possible rule, although I fear it might be a bit too complicated...

Cleave: any successful armour save rolls made against wounds caused by this weapon which roll equal to or higher than the weapon's AP value must be re-rolled.

Example: a weapon with AP 5 and the Cleave rule causes a wound against a model with a 3+ Armour Save. Any rolls of 5 or 6 must be re-rolled, while rolls of 3 or 4 succeed.

Or you could break the great unwritten rule of 40k and add an Armour Save Modifier...

 iGuy91 wrote:

Exxile72 wrote:
You could give them Shred. It kinda fits since most choppas have spikey bits all over them. Its a pretty significant advantage with only S3, but it doesn't hose anyone's armor saves. Plus it kinda fits the ork style of overloading your enemies with attacks and just letting them fail saves due to the volume of wounds inflicted.

This seems to be the best solution I've seen so far.

Maybe make Choppa boys Str 4, but WS 3 as well, with their points likely staying where they are, they are supposed to be strong brutes...not quite master swordsmen...?

In conclusion
Add shred
Add Str 4
Put at WS 3

Maybe make Shootas Rapid Fire as opposed to assault so they can't do everything anymore (Diversifying the two unit types)

Booo.


The reason for the WS is that they're instinctive combat geniuses- they might not have the perfect, formal precision of a Spess Mehrine, but they get their choppas to the right bits of the enemy all the same.

And there's a grand total of TWO (count it!) Ork-portable weapons that aren't Assault in the entire Codex- and those are Deffguns on Lootas and the SAG on Big Meks. Besides- Rapid Fire is demonstrative of slowing down or stopping to be more reliable about putting more shots on target. Orks don't really do that.

Anvildude wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

Exxile72 wrote:
You could give them Shred. It kinda fits since most choppas have spikey bits all over them. Its a pretty significant advantage with only S3, but it doesn't hose anyone's armor saves. Plus it kinda fits the ork style of overloading your enemies with attacks and just letting them fail saves due to the volume of wounds inflicted.

This seems to be the best solution I've seen so far.

Maybe make Choppa boys Str 4, but WS 3 as well, with their points likely staying where they are, they are supposed to be strong brutes...not quite master swordsmen...?

In conclusion
Add shred
Add Str 4
Put at WS 3

Maybe make Shootas Rapid Fire as opposed to assault so they can't do everything anymore (Diversifying the two unit types)

Booo.


The reason for the WS is that they're instinctive combat geniuses- they might not have the perfect, formal precision of a Spess Mehrine, but they get their choppas to the right bits of the enemy all the same.

And there's a grand total of TWO (count it!) Ork-portable weapons that aren't Assault in the entire Codex- and those are Deffguns on Lootas and the SAG on Big Meks. Besides- Rapid Fire is demonstrative of slowing down or stopping to be more reliable about putting more shots on target. Orks don't really do that.

Then make them salvo instead, the fact that shoota boys can shoot, and then assault, and do it better than slugga boys means they will never be used until something is done about it to make shootas more shooty, and worse in assault, and make sluggas better in melee
The point of the matter is they'd put out more wounds with ws3, str4, than vice versa

The Rules for them are fine the way they are, if you cant wipe a sqaud of termis out with 12+ orks shooting and assualting your just very very unlucky, Orks make up for having low str by having base 2 attacks and 3/4 depending on ork bonus.
The point of orks is to swarm the enemy with attacks.
Example my friend took a termi list of black templar back in 5th, i took 78 trukk boys and when i jumped out into 15 termis with 60+ orks and i say im going to fire my sluggas, He sits there and laughs and goes okay? you wont do much.
But indeed getting 20+ wounds he failed many 2+ saves and he feared the swarm of orks. anyways. I think rending would be to op what they need to fix is Nobs in Challenges because theres no freaking way of hiding that delicious power klaw in your boys.