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When I read the Index Astartes article about the Iron Hands, and the legend about Manus fighting with that metal beast, the first thing that came to mind was: that sounds kinda necron'ish.
Is it this what people are referring to, maybe?
Spoiler:
"The most famous heroic story of Ferrus was his titanic battle against Asirnoth, the Great Silver Wyrm. This is recounted in the Canticle of the Travels, an epic poem of unknown origin that is still taught to Clan children at their parent's knee. He had stalked the great beast for days through the legendary Land of Shadows - the fearful land of the ancients, a place of great fear and mystery. This place, long since lost, was said to be a land of metal and stone relics of giant proportions, remnants of a forgotten age. The ghost-spirits of the clans are said to roam there once they leave the world of the living. The Canticle describes the monstrous creature as having skin made of living metal that was impervious to harm. Try as he might, Ferrus could not pierce the metal hide of the beast, his fists pummelling harmlessly against it. Fighting the creature for days on end, across continents and seas, Ferrus remained undaunted, confident of his own abilities. He eventually slew the great beast by holding the writhing creature submerged in a lava flow, enduring horrific pain, but bearing it stoically. When he finally removed his arms from the lava, the Wyrm was no more. His hands however were encased in the same living metal that the creature's skin was made of, a metal that was as flexible as flesh, as strong as the hardest ceramite. It is known that myths involving Ferrus and his metal hands precede the Canticle of Travels, but only in the Canticle is this explanation given as to how the metal came to be fused to his body." - WD #262
Obviously such legends provide little information when taken at face value, and the resemblance might be sheer coincidence. For example, those "remnants of a forgotten age" may well refer not to the Necrons but rather the pre-Imperial war with the "Men of Iron". But back then I thought that it would make for some nice theories when one would attempt to guess what may have actually happened there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/26 19:30:30
I know canon technically means nothing, because they've contradicted themselves at least a few times from every source, but I was under the impression that a lot of fans kind of followed the same path for canon that they did for rules.
Codex > BRB and or supplements (death from the skies, etc.) > everything else (including BL).
The problem here is that the everything else portion, including BL, tend to have more pages numerically to throw stuff out, while fluff writing in codices and the BRB tends toward being mysterious and coy.
Of course, what fans think doesn't mean much, and when something really big, like "Vulkan and the Emprah are perpetuals" shows up in a BL book, it kind of pushes those other sources to fall in line, at least a little.
Personally, I assume whatever is the most marketable solution is the "real" solution, because cash drives the game as much or more than anything else. If they ever do get to Warhammer 50k with the Primarchs, do they make more money introducing a Vulkan Primarch model or not? The answer is almost certainly that they do, so I just assume he's coming back if they ever decide to advance the setting.
DogofWar1 wrote:and when something really big, like "Vulkan and the Emprah are perpetuals" shows up in a BL book, it kind of pushes those other sources to fall in line, at least a little.
But that's the thing - those really big things tend to be being either completely ignored (e.g. Sisters of Silence) or outright contradicted (no immortal Primarchs) in the BRB and Codex fluff.
At the same time, the "it's all legends and myths" line means that neither source is wrong. Whilst your path of progression is indeed what I believe most fans are following (and this used to include me, because I adopted what I was told when joining the hobby and had no reason to doubt), it is also clearly not what the actual writers have in mind. Troublesome.
Spoiler:
"Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.
Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths." - Marc Gascogne
Me, I still stick to GW's material above anything else, but that's just a matter of personal preference in terms of style and atmosphere. I don't expect any outsourced/licensed product to conform to this vision, and so won't be "thrown off the tracks" by any contradictions or outrageous claims that just sound too weird to fit into my preferred interpretation of the setting.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/09/26 19:41:58
Does GW know how Chain Axes are supposed to function?
Don't see them being better at their job than Chain Swords in combat, and even if used for other purposes (breaking barriers), it probably wouldn't function as well as an actual axe.
Still awesome however
Straight out of the package new to 40k models & gaming. Though know the lore pretty well.
Lynata wrote: Point taken. Let's say it means less than a lot of fans are thinking, then.
Gav's blogpost even goes a bit into detail regarding GW sometimes adopting things from other sources when they are convinced that it fits.
On the other hand, Canoness Astra of the Order of the Silver Lily as printed in the White Dwarf accounts of the 13th Black Crusade actually was a normal SoB player.
But yeah, that happens less often, of course.
Yea, that's why I stopped short of saying "Warhammer fan #423's" fanfic had zero chance of appearing. Fan stuff does make it to official works every once in a rare while (FFG has a few quotes and stuff ported in from popular fan creations, too). It's just that the odds of it appearing in actual company works are much much lower than stuff in "official" (GW or affiliates) works appearing again.
For the most part, people assume it's Ferrus Manus because of his connection to the necrons.
What connection did he have with the Necorns? Sorry for all the questions just not caught up with new Necron fluff.
It's basically his hands and the story of how he got them. It's not outright stated that it's necrodermis living metal, but he descriptions are VERY similar to how necrodermis works and the description of the wyrm he killed to get them fits right into Necron lore (it's guarding something "ancient", if I recall correctly), without actually being outright stated. Thus, if there was ever a primarch with a chance of being reanimated by necron protocals,it'd be the one that's "tainted" by necrons in the first place.
Again, it's a stretch. But also, again, on the list of possible ways to bring a headless man back to life, re-animating him via the necrodermis within him is actually one of the less ridiculous ways to go about it (if only because most other possible ways that don't involve chaos to bring a headless man back to life would be even more ridiculous. Hey, it'd make more sense than reasoning and stuff that Black Library's Vulkan is capable of regenerating from).
If it ever does happen, it'd bring some pretty nice symbolism to a hypothetical antagonist relationship between Necron-ish Ferrus Manus and Daemon Prince Fulgrim. One would be a man who's lost the ability to sense and feel, while the other would be a man corrupted to sense and feel too much.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/26 21:18:36
The real life reason there are two missing primarchs is so that 2 opposing players can paint their space marines however they like, and both players will be able to say they are one of the missing legions.
Rotary wrote: I've been wondering if the nids have any other goals in this galaxy besides biomass and i don't think they do. Also, i don't want to know. If the wrong author decides to write it out we might find out they were created by necrons or the hive mind is another chaos lord. I think the mystery is better than the truth they would come to.
Slaanesh: "Hey guys we're back! We brought presents. And yes, they ARE sexually suggestive"
Tzeentch: "So did we miss anything while we were away"
Khorne and Nurgle trade a shifty glance
Tzeentch: "Hey! Whos been touching my stuff! Where did my Old World go?!"
Khorne and Nurgle wander off whistling.
DogofWar1 wrote: I know canon technically means nothing, because they've contradicted themselves at least a few times from every source, but I was under the impression that a lot of fans kind of followed the same path for canon that they did for rules.
Codex > BRB and or supplements (death from the skies, etc.) > everything else (including BL).
I think that might have come from other SF fandoms; Lucasfilm does have a canon policy like that for Star Wars; the films are "true". TV shows are "true" except where they contradict the films The novels and comics are "true", unless they contradict the films or TV shows. The story elements of the computer games are "true" except where ...
All of which is trumped by George making a new film and changing things. At the moment, it's canon that Han and Leia had three children, and that Luke married the ex-"Emperor's Hand". When Episode 7 comes out all of that - twenty years' worth of novels - could well cease to be canon. I'm looking forward to it.
Cold wrote: Does GW know how Chain Axes are supposed to function?
Don't see them being better at their job than Chain Swords in combat, and even if used for other purposes (breaking barriers), it probably wouldn't function as well as an actual axe.
Still awesome however
I would guess no, because any sort of 'chainsaw' weapon is going to be horribly unwieldy. All of the weight is in the blade or above the hand, while many/most swords attempt to move some of that weight down lower. This is part of what a pommel does for you (acts as a counter weight for the blade as well as something to keep the blade from slipping from your grasp).
Also, look how fat the sides of a chain weapon are. It isn't cutting through anything deeper than the blades themselves in all likelihood. It is a 'cool' weapon, and so it can do things it shouldn't be able to do because a guy with a chainsaw for a hand was 'awesome' in Evil Dead, so it must be 'awesome' to have guys running around with them in actual battle.
