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What happens if the Emp wakes up?
What the Fallen are actually doing?
Why the Nids are here?
Who the 2 lost Primarchs are?
Etc....
It seems 40k has more mystery than a gakky soap, however do you think the creators actually have endgames planned out (not that they'd ever implement them).
"I prayed to that corpse for a millenia with no response, what makes you think he'll answer you?"
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice
Here's a description of the 42nd Millennium: Everybody gets buttfucked, the Tyranids eat most of the galaxy and the only ones left to fight them are the Chaos Lords (but the nids are moving out soon so they don't care too much if they have to wait a little longer) and the Necrons, the Necrons have a reasonable chance of survival but might choose to wait until the 'Nids leave in which case they will fight off the Chaos Lords' advance every 1000 years and the Tyranids will move on to the next galaxy as the biomass will have been all devoured except for Chaos but I doubt the Norn Queens are so stupid.
I've been wondering if the nids have any other goals in this galaxy besides biomass and i don't think they do. Also, i don't want to know. If the wrong author decides to write it out we might find out they were created by necrons or the hive mind is another chaos lord. I think the mystery is better than the truth they would come to.
The only thing I can think of as a secondary purpose in this galaxy that wouldn't totally suck would be if the hive lords (Norn Queens and the like) would want to kill the chaos lords, as it seems they are avoiding Chaos ATM I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted all of that biomass in the warp, especially since they can't be affected by chaos curses.
darthnatus wrote: The only thing I can think of as a secondary purpose in this galaxy that wouldn't totally suck would be if the hive lords (Norn Queens and the like) would want to kill the chaos lords, as it seems they are avoiding Chaos ATM I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted all of that biomass in the warp, especially since they can't be affected by chaos curses.
darthnatus wrote: The only thing I can think of as a secondary purpose in this galaxy that wouldn't totally suck would be if the hive lords (Norn Queens and the like) would want to kill the chaos lords, as it seems they are avoiding Chaos ATM I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted all of that biomass in the warp, especially since they can't be affected by chaos curses.
Can tyranids just waltz into the warp like that?
Through the eye of terror, but Tyranids probably wouldn't unless they had good reason because if they don't make chaos extremely aware of their presence they are safe.
2x210 wrote: What happens if the Emp wakes up?
What the Fallen are actually doing?
Why the Nids are here?
Who the 2 lost Primarchs are?
Etc....
It seems 40k has more mystery than a gakky soap, however do you think the creators actually have endgames planned out (not that they'd ever implement them).
1. Well,
Spoiler:
Vulkan is an immortal, and apparently so is the Emperor, so if he dies/wakes up
Imperium wins.
2. Mostly bouncing around the galaxy being mysterious, though Cypher is probably gonna go to the Rock eventually and brofist Johnson when he wakes up.
3. They're running from the ponies from MLP and their army of bronies, trying to collect enough biomass to defeat Pinkie Sparkle or whoever the hell the leader pony is.
4. Dunno, but one was probably exterminatus happy and accidentally blew up something important and the Emperor facepalmed so hard he psychically killed the poor guy. After he sicked the space puppies on them. The other one was probably a pacifist.
its hinted that one of the lost primarchs was killed off by the space wolves, the other one either died in transit, died in infancy or became the hive mind
Then again, this is directly contradicted by the 6E rulebook.
Which actually serves to raise an important point for OP. This setting is not a consistent collection of facts, but rather a patchwork of legends and myths with very little in terms of facts (imho, the more outrageous something seems, the more sceptical I'd be regarding its validity). This is because Games Workshop fully intends for the gamer to make this setting their own, and use the various holes in the basic fluff to fill with their own ideas, or draw inspiration from the sometimes conflicting outsourced readings. Anything is valid, everything goes. I highly doubt they had the endgame "planned out" simply because 40k is not an ongoing story but a snapshot, a setting perpetually stuck in 999.M41 because that's when the coolest things happen and the battles you fight seem the most important.
tl;dr. You decide.
... but it can be fun to discuss theories with others.
This is a pure story element. It's left empty so it can be written about by BL, fans, etc...
In my own little story, 1 of the Primarchs was lost to chaos early (i.e. before Horus) and purged. The other landed on a planet where humans and xenos coexisted. When he was found by the Emperor, he repeatedly refused to engage in genocide of xenos species during the Great Crusade. Eventually, dad got annoyed that son wouldn't mass-murder when told to do so, an purged him.
It seems 40k has more mystery than a gakky soap, however do you think the creators actually have endgames planned out (not that they'd ever implement them)
No. To my unending annoyance, we will be stuck at or near 999.M41 FOR-FETHING-EVER.
Then again, this is directly contradicted by the 6E rulebook.
I'm going by Vulkan Lives, which, I know, is Black Library and therefore not entirely canon, but as we know from TV Tropes and the magical power of marketing, all myths are true, and no body (and sometimes even with one) no death.
I mean, if 40k actually got into its fluff endgame, there's about a 95% chance that Russ, Corax, Khan, and Vulkan would all stumble out of their respective hellholes, that Rowboat would heal, and Lion would wake up. Maybe Rogal Dorn faked his death too and is leading the Custodes, and his supposed body in amber is just some random mook. I mean, everyone says that he would have showed up in M36 during Vandire's reign, but the Custodes did ultimately show up, and the guy who convinced the head Sister to turn could have totally been Dorn. I mean, it'd be pretty convincing if he just pulled her aside, was like "hey, I don't know if you realize this, but I'm kind of ROGAL FREAKIN' DORN. Now pop a cap in Vandire's head, so I can go back to tinkering with the Golden Throne so we don't all die. And don't tell anyone I'm here."
Heck, knowing fluff writers that body the Necrons have is Ferrus Manus and they're totally going to find a way to bring him back with reanimation protocols. I mean, his body is like half-machine anyway. And maybe Alpharius/Omegon are actually good guys. Weirder stuff has happened.
And on top of it all, the Sangiunor is BOTH Azkaellon AND Sanguinus reincarnated. Because why the heck not and those kiddie pools filled with money won't fill themselves.
Does GW know what? how to write an informative subject line? /sarcasm
As was said before, it's a setting, not a story. If you want a definitive plot, read the novels. Making a setting for a game that has a progressive timeline in-game is a disaster in waiting.
TSR tried it in Forgotten Realms and it was unbelievably annoying. Thry pushed it into new products and so campaigns could be interrupted by world events, forcing DMs to either ignore the progression of macro-plot or to adjust the plans of the campaign constantly. Not too popular with DMs.
So imagine GW running the games as a plotline. Eventually, some armies may become temporarily unusable. Sorry, I'm not shelving my nids because the Space Marines had a major victory. That being said, the current system encourages cinematic settings and gameplay, so if you and your buddies want to create a campaign system to show local advances and setbacks, go crazy. Just don't hope for GW to do the same.
2x210 wrote: What happens if the Emp wakes up?
What the Fallen are actually doing?
Why the Nids are here?
Who the 2 lost Primarchs are?
Etc....
It seems 40k has more mystery than a gakky soap, however do you think the creators actually have endgames planned out (not that they'd ever implement them).
I would guess the people who wrote those story lines have there own idea of where each one is going. This however is not the same as GW knowing. They just have an approximate idea so that what they are doing has some internal logic to them. Apart from the 2 missing chapters. GW have said time and again those are left out so players can make there own.
From GW's point of view, these are no more valid interpretations than anyone elses. The point is that it is up to the players to make there own narrative. 40k owes as much to RPGs as it dose to wargaming. The setting is a framework, and when you start to tell people where it is going it damages the game. Just ask TSR.
insaniak wrote: Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
Maybe the emperor has a different type of biomass that the hive mind wants (even though he is a shrivelled corpse) that could explain why they are heading for terra.
At least with the Dark Angels codex, GW seems to be setting things up for if they ever decide they want to bring the primarchs back. I doubt that decision to bring them back is final, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of the writers were subtlely trying to find ways to set it up in case they do decide to bring them back.
Talfrost wrote: So to the "maybe Alpharius/Omegon are actually good guys" comment . Read the book "Legion" haha (Dan Abnett I think)
Well, I meant that they would side with the Imperium when the Chaos Primarchs and Abbadon get to Terra and launch Heresy 2.0. I don't think Legion clarifies what their post-Heresy 1.0 sentiments are.
Heck, knowing fluff writers that body the Necrons have is Ferrus Manus and they're totally going to find a way to bring him back with reanimation protocols.
What body did they find/where was it stated? curiosity has the best of me today
Straight out of the package new to 40k models & gaming. Though know the lore pretty well.
TiamatRoar wrote: At least with the Dark Angels codex, GW seems to be setting things up for if they ever decide they want to bring the primarchs back. I doubt that decision to bring them back is final, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of the writers were subtlely trying to find ways to set it up in case they do decide to bring them back.
Yeah, they've got things pretty well set up for a number of them.
Spoiler:
Lion is asleep in the Rock, and they make it sound like he could wake up at any time.
The SW 13th Great Company shows up and says Russ was leading them up until the moment they stumbled out.
They've hinted too many times that Rowboat is healing in stasis for it to not be true.
Even Dorn got some retcons (not sure if that was in a codex or where) that his body was never explicitly recovered.
Khan, Vulkan, and Corax, I don't know if they've gotten updated fluff saying they're coming back (though that might have to do with the fact that they have fewer codex fluff pages due to being rolled into C:SM. We might get hints dropped in the Supplements, though generally their basic fluff is "they went into the warp/webway" and hinted they'll be back.
Heck, knowing fluff writers that body the Necrons have is Ferrus Manus and they're totally going to find a way to bring him back with reanimation protocols.
What body did they find/where was it stated? curiosity has the best of me today
It might have been the codex, but I can't remember. Basically I think Trazyn the Infinite got a big marine in baroque power armor. They don't specify who, but they mention he's a massive man so the implication is likely that it's a primarch, and Manus is one of the leading candidates for who it is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/26 17:03:23
Heck, knowing fluff writers that body the Necrons have is Ferrus Manus and they're totally going to find a way to bring him back with reanimation protocols.
What body did they find/where was it stated? curiosity has the best of me today
Trazelyn's (a necron that collects things) collection includes "a large man in baroque power armour". The fact that he wasn't simply called "a space marine" leads some people to suspect this is a primarch. For the most part, people assume it's Ferrus Manus because of his connection to the necrons.
Yea, it's a really REALLY big stretch. And yet, a part of me wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be true. After all, the Iron Hands have legends that Ferrus will return despite him being 100% confirmed to be headless in the novels (yea, there isn't any true "canon", but I doubt GW will contradict the novels THAT far). Narrative causality would thus indicate that there really is a storyline possibility of him coming back (if GW decides to go ahead with a "the primarchs return" storyline advancement). Therefore, if Ferrus Manus does come back like the Iron Hands believe he will be, then because he's confirmed to be headless, it will likely be through an exceedingly BIZARE set of circumstances, and frankly, the idea of him being reanimated via Necron protocols is probably the more "reasonable" possibilities compared to what else could allow a HEADLESS MAN to come back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/26 17:31:58
Some Tomb World in some galaxy by that one thing in that one place (or Minnesota for nosy people)
If Manus does come back it likely be through biotransference since he lacks a head
"Put your 1st best against you opponents 2nd best, your 2nd best against their 3rd best, and your 3rd best against their 1st best"-Sun Tzu's Art of War
"If your not winning, try a bigger sword! Usually works..."
Heck, knowing fluff writers that body the Necrons have is Ferrus Manus and they're totally going to find a way to bring him back with reanimation protocols.
What body did they find/where was it stated? curiosity has the best of me today
Trazelyn's (a necron that collects things) collection includes "a large man in baroque power armour". The fact that he wasn't simply called "a space marine" leads some people to suspect this is a primarch. For the most part, people assume it's Ferrus Manus because of his connection to the necrons.
Yea, it's a really REALLY big stretch. And yet, a part of me wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be true. After all, the Iron Hands have legends that Ferrus will return despite him being 100% confirmed to be headless in the novels (yea, there isn't any true "canon", but I doubt GW will contradict the novels THAT far). Narrative causality would thus indicate that there really is a storyline possibility of him coming back (if GW decides to go ahead with a "the primarchs return" storyline advancement). Therefore, if Ferrus Manus does come back like the Iron Hands believe he will be, then because he's confirmed to be headless, it will likely be through an exceedingly BIZARE set of circumstances, and frankly, the idea of him being reanimated via Necron protocols is probably the more "reasonable" possibilities compared to what else could allow a HEADLESS MAN to come back.
I thought it was more likely to be Vulkan
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
I'm sure every GW author has their own ideas, just like everyone else has their own ideas. That's the good thing about 40k lore, your own ideas work with it and you can add your own stuff to the setting. So, for example, if you believed the Hive Mind was a Chaos God, you could do a huge Apoc. battle set in the 45th Millennium where Nids and Daemons team up to invade Terra or whatever.
DogofWar1 wrote:I'm going by Vulkan Lives, which, I know, is Black Library and therefore not entirely canon, but as we know from TV Tropes and the magical power of marketing, all myths are true, and no body (and sometimes even with one) no death.
Oh, those books are as "canon" as a Codex - the problem is that "canon" doesn't actually mean anything.
Spoiler:
"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong." -- Gav Thorpe
"It all stems from the assumption that there's a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or 'true' representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth." -- Andy Hoare
"There is no canon. There's a variety of sources, many of which conflict, but every single one is a lens through which we can see the 40K setting." -- Aaron Dembski-Bowden
It's just a contradiction. The HH novels make Vulkan a "perpetual" (another new idea of these novels), which means he is immortal. The 6E Rulebook explicitly mentions Primarchs to not be immortal. As a fan, you are now left to choose for yourself whether you want to follow the novels, or the Codex/rulebook fluff. The only important thing is that people are aware that these contradictions exist, and that they should not be surprised by conflicting sources. They will have to choose, and discard anything that does not mesh with their preferred interpretation.
The expectation that all the 40k fluff from all those different sources is meant to tie into each other is, I am now convinced, worse than the fact that it isn't. A lot of fans keep disregarding GW's "manual" on how to use the fluff, so to say. See Andy Hoare's comment in the spoiler'd section.
DogofWar1 wrote:I'm going by Vulkan Lives, which, I know, is Black Library and therefore not entirely canon, but as we know from TV Tropes and the magical power of marketing, all myths are true, and no body (and sometimes even with one) no death.
Oh, those books are as "canon" as a Codex - the problem is that "canon" doesn't actually mean anything.
"canon" does mean a little. The odds of something from a previous GW-related source (Be it produced by Games Workshop or their affiliated companies and partners like Black Library and Fantasy Flight Games) appearing in or being referenced in something else GW-related is astronomically higher than "random Warhammer 40k Fan #423"'s fanfic's odds.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/26 19:10:34
Point taken. Let's say it means less than a lot of fans are thinking, then.
Gav's blogpost even goes a bit into detail regarding GW sometimes adopting things from other sources when they are convinced that it fits.
On the other hand, Canoness Astra of the Order of the Silver Lily as printed in the White Dwarf accounts of the 13th Black Crusade actually was a normal SoB player.
But yeah, that happens less often, of course.
For the most part, people assume it's Ferrus Manus because of his connection to the necrons.
What connection did he have with the Necorns? Sorry for all the questions just not caught up with new Necron fluff.
I believe each GW employee has their own idea of how the story would advance. Just the story or setting will probably never progress past that point. There are a lot of sub plots and mysteries that are about to culminate with coming of the 41st millennium; essentially every race has their own hope of whats to come. Except for the Tau whose mysteries are more about Ethereal control and how they advanced so quickly.
Really would like to know what Manus knew about the Necrons though!
Straight out of the package new to 40k models & gaming. Though know the lore pretty well.
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice 
Tyranids - Main Army about 2000 pts 
Draconians, a BA successor chapter - around 1000 pts still calculating Other armies: 
CSM/Daemon Party 
The Spiky Grot Legion 
The Heavily-Ignored Pedro and Friends 
"Put your 1st best against you opponents 2nd best, your 2nd best against their 3rd best, and your 3rd best against their 1st best"-Sun Tzu's Art of War 
10k
