Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You break no rules by reallocating a wound in this manner. You WOULD break the LOS! explicit permission to reallocate, based upon set criteria that can all be met without invoking FF, and have no permission to deny this ability.

If you havea model in the same unit that can have a wound reallocated to it, then LOS! is satisfied.

FF was satisfied the instant you allocated the wound, same as precision strike was satisfied the instant yo uallocated the wound. Reallocation is NOT covered in the FF rules.

Then how are you rolling to wound the model that has the wound transferred to them? you are clearly not using the allocate wounds and remove casualties part of the shooting rules as you cannot allocate wounds to models with a better cover save.

Allocation of wounds is, Re allocation is allocation. Unless I am missing the rules for making saving throws for models with re allocated wounds?.

Mywik, LOS lets you re allocate the wound from a vindicare, the rule from the vindicare stops that, this is the same LOS lets you re allocate and Focus fire cover save rule stops that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CaptainJay, many times i have said this is RAW not how i would play it

You have already wounded the unit (you woun d models, NOT units), and you have already allocated

LOS! is a reallocation. Prove the FF restriction on allocation of a wound applies to any reallocation of that wound

You are breaking one rule - LOS! - without permisison to do so.

Provide the rules for making saving throws for models with reallocated wounds.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You break no rules by reallocating a wound in this manner. You WOULD break the LOS! explicit permission to reallocate, based upon set criteria that can all be met without invoking FF, and have no permission to deny this ability.

If you havea model in the same unit that can have a wound reallocated to it, then LOS! is satisfied.

FF was satisfied the instant you allocated the wound, same as precision strike was satisfied the instant yo uallocated the wound. Reallocation is NOT covered in the FF rules.

I agree. You satisfy Focus Fire by allocating the wound to the closest model of the specified cover save or worse even if it is a character. You then have permission which has not been revoked to reallocate that wound using LOS. Allocation of wounds and reallocation of wounds due to LOS are different.

And LOS is not a strict reallocation, even GWs wording is very confused on this issue. The bulk of the rule specifies resolving the wound against a different model, not simply reallocating it. Wound resolution and allocation are different and separate though in the vast majority of cases they are effectively the same. The only mention of reallocation comes in when it talks about multicharacter units and only being allowed one LOS attempt. And even then, it is used two different ways in that same sentence. GW almost used consistent language on this rule... almost

MarkyMark wrote:
Provide the rules for making saving throws for models with reallocated wounds.

Provide the rules stating reallocation under LOS! follows FF rules on allocating wounds to models

MarkyMark wrote:
(note LOS is a re allocation, backed by the fact it says you cannot re allocate again) to a model with a better cover save then declared when focus firing. .

Your turn

MarkyMark wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
(note LOS is a re allocation, backed by the fact it says you cannot re allocate again) to a model with a better cover save then declared when focus firing. .

Your turn

You should actually quote the rule. The basis of your argument is the contradictory and poorly worded last sentence in LOS.

What you have failed to do is show us rules support as to how the general rule shooting rule, Focus Fire, which specifies how wounds have to be allocated overrules the special and specific rule LOS for resolving, transferring, and reallocating wounds after the condition for wound allocation of Focus Fire has been met.

You allocate the wound to the character satisfying focus fire, you then have permission to use LOS. As LOS is a special and specific rule that modifies the existing shooting rules granted to Character and ICs you cannot ignore with without permission. LOS is already a specific alteration to the normal shooting rules for allocating and resolving wounds giving permission for reallocation. Focus Fire does override it as it would need specific permission, either in an errata stating so for an FAQ.

Shooting Rules apply --> Focus Fire applies to multi model units with differing cover saves and defines wound allocation--> LOS applies to characters in that unit allocated wounds.

It might help to remember that the SHOOTING player allocates wounds.*

Normally the shooting player must allocate wounds to the model in the target unit nearest the firing unit. *

Precision Shots allow the shooting player to allocate wounds to any model in the target unit that is in range of the shooting character.**

Focus Fire prevents the shooting player following the normal rules for Wound allocation from allocating wounds to any models in the target unit that has a cover save better then the one specified for focus fire. ***
-this means that for normal shooting attack the shooting player must allocate wound to the model in the target unit nearest the firing unit that does not have a cover save better then the one specified for focus fire.
-this also means that precision shots can be allocated to any model in the target unit that is in range of the shooting character even if it has a cover save better then the one specified for focus fire.

After all that is said and done, Look Out Sir allows the target unit's controller to allocate the wound to another model in the target unit within 6" of the model to which the wound has been allocated.****
Focus Fire Also prevents the the target unit's controller from allocating wounds to models in the target unit that does not have a cover save better then the one specified for focus fire.*****

* BRB pg15 wrote:First, allocate a Wound from the Wound pool to the enemy model closest to the firing unit.

** BRB pg63 wrote:Wounds from Precision Shots are allocated against a model (or models) of your choice in the target unit, as long as it is in range, rather than following the normal rules for Wound allocation.

*** BRB pg19 wrote:Wounds caused by Focus Fire must still follow the normal allocation order. You ignore the models whose cover saves are better than what you've focused on.

**** BRB pg16 wrote:Please Read "Look Out, Sir"

***** BRB pg18 wrote:Your opponent can only allocate Wounds to models with a cover save equal to or worse (i.e a higher value) than the value stated.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zagman wrote:


What you have failed to do is show us rules support as to how the general rule shooting rule, Focus Fire, which specifies how wounds have to be allocated overrules the special and specific rule LOS for resolving, transferring, and reallocating wounds after the condition for wound allocation of Focus Fire has been met.

Neither Focus Fire or Look Out Sir are advanced rules. They are both basic rules. Poorly written or not, the discussion of RAW will take what is written at face value. Look Out Sir reallocates wounds, and as such is a form of wound allocation.

I would like to point something out.
Normally the attacking player allocates wounds (per pages 15 and 63).
LOS allows the attacked player to reallocate the wound (per page 16).
Focus Fire says the attacked player (not attacking player) cannot allocate wounds to models with a better cover save then specified (per page 18).

 Happyjew wrote:
I would like to point something out.
Normally the attacking player allocates wounds (per pages 15 and 63).
LOS allows the attacked player to reallocate the wound (per page 16).
Focus Fire says the attacked player (not attacking player) cannot allocate wounds to models with a better cover save then specified (per page 18).

Focus Fire actually restricts both players. I cited both in my post above. 1st it restricts the attacked player from ever allocating wounds to models with a cover save equal to or worse (i.e a higher value) than the value stated. Then just before the end of the rule it tell you (the attacker) to allocate wounds caused by Focus Fire fallowing the normal allocation order and ignore the models whose cover saves are better than what you've focused on. Because wounds from precision shots do not use the normal allocation order the attacking player is not restricted to the smaller subset of models when allocating precision shot wounds.