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 happygolucky wrote:
So now there allowing Destroyer weapons in regular games?

When the do that is the day 40k will be completely broken imo..

...if they do, do this then they better add the Stompa to this, would lobe to use my Stompa a bit more..

Don't get yourself too worked up over it. It is from Natfka who has a piss-poor record for rumors.

Natfka on Faeit 212 - Total rumors: (183 TRUE) / (284 FALSE) / (33 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

Here's hoping that IG end up rediculously over the top powerful, to drive up the resale value when I sell mine this spring in anticipation of the new SW book and the 4th HH book.

I can see them axing Special Weapon squads entirely, and making veterans 5 man squads, but having them very well equipped. It'd force you to be more clever with your special-weapon delivery systems, as you wouldn't have ablative wounds. It'd also make them less suited for holding objectives; overall, they'd have more of a niche other than "better guardsmen," though it would be a kick in the pants for mechvet lists. In fact, I don't know if they'd even let them take chimeras at 5 men, but we'll see.

There might also be close combat options for veterans; give them more "assault" styled weapons; CCWs, Melta, Flamer, Demo charges, Shotguns, scoring/denial, whereas stormtroopers function as more shooty units; hellguns, plasma, melta, lower points cost. It'd reduce redundancy in the codex, as right now, Veterans with Carapace and Stormtroopers really aren't much different, save for one being just shy of twice the price for AP3 18'' lasguns and deepstriking.

Veteran squads should be depleted so 5 man makes sense.

I must admit I'm not overly eager to see the command squad changes. The idea that I have to take one to get a primaris or LC is going to be very irritating if true, as I usually run a PP or LC solo as my HQ. Being forced to take a CCS would be rather annoying.

On the other hand, if it lets them give orders then that could be cool. An expansion of the orders system and doctrines coming back would be most welcome.

 happygolucky wrote:
So now there allowing Destroyer weapons in regular games?

When the do that is the day 40k will be completely broken imo..

...if they do, do this then they better add the Stompa to this, would lobe to use my Stompa a bit more..

Yeah. While Lord of War slot in itself might be a good idea, and allow people to use their expensive superheavies more often, allowing destroyer weapons would be a disaster; they absolutely should not exist in standard 40K (and for that matter, in their current form, not in Apocalypse either.)

 Crimson wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
So now there allowing Destroyer weapons in regular games?

When the do that is the day 40k will be completely broken imo..

...if they do, do this then they better add the Stompa to this, would lobe to use my Stompa a bit more..

Yeah. While Lord of War slot in itself might be a good idea, and allow people to use their expensive superheavies more often, allowing destroyer weapons would be a disaster; they absolutely should not exist in standard 40K (and for that matter, in their current form, not in Apocalypse either.)

Even if this highly suspect rumor is true, you would just find that it would become an 'optional' rule by the majority of players. I suspect you would almost never see it at a tournament either.

 pretre wrote:
edit: I'm too lazy to start a new thread and these are salty so...

I am not that lazy and copied the Stronghold Assault Expansion part to the other thread you started on that topic:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/559535.page

Yep, I just saw that.

I want a Leman Russ tank with a Grav Cannon/amp on it. Take a squadron of 3, bam. No more Riptide.

I really hope they don't restrict vet squads. That would mess up so many peoples lists.

Ffs a ten man squad is lucky to survive an enemy shooting phase outside a transport of not in serious cover, half that number will be a joke.

 Las wrote:
I really hope they don't restrict vet squads. That would mess up so many peoples lists.

lol. Not been playing 40k long? Each time a new codex/edition comes out, you need to throw out your lists and make new ones.

pretre wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Here's hoping for an initiative boost on some models.

That's an odd request. IG should be 3 on most stats. They are humans, after all.

You should also be complaining that Canonesses have Initiative 4 too, then. I'm sure you don't mind downgrading them to Initiative 3 as a house rule-they are, after, all, "mere" humans and shouldn't have Initiative 4. I also hope you don't mind downgrading your human models to WS and BS 3, there's no way that they could EVER be as good of a marksman as a marine or a thousand-year old Eldar!

Las wrote:I really hope they don't restrict vet squads. That would mess up so many peoples lists.

Which is exactly why they will do it.

Yeah, yeah we've all heard that. Doesn't change the fact that it would suck and make no sense fluff or game wise.

Edit: it also doesn't make any sense from a money grubbing stand point. Reducing the number of vets in a squad will result in IG players having a surplus of vet models thus reducing the need for them to buy the shiny new kit.

 pretre wrote:
Veteran squads should be depleted so 5 man makes sense.

Why would they need to be depleted. If I was a commander and was told most of my veteran troops have been depleted to half squad size I would reorganize squads not let them run around undermanned. That or I would assign some fresh grunts to them to be trained up. As forces become depleted they tend to be organized into smaller and smaller units otherwise whats to stop you having a squad with only one guy left in it.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
You should also be complaining that Canonesses have Initiative 4 too, then. I'm sure you don't mind downgrading them to Initiative 3 as a house rule-they are, after, all, "mere" humans and shouldn't have Initiative 4. I also hope you don't mind downgrading your human models to WS and BS 3, there's no way that they could EVER be as good of a marksman as a marine or a thousand-year old Eldar!

Someone needs a hug! I wouldn't mind downgrading a canoness to Initiative 3. In fact, I think it is appropriate. I didn't complain when they reduced Seraphim to I 3 because I thought it was appropriate. I think WS/BS are an entirely different thing. If I wasn't clear when I said 'most stats', I meant the physical ones S/T/I/W. Humans should rarely exceed 3 on those values.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 White Ninja wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Veteran squads should be depleted so 5 man makes sense.

Why would they need to be depleted. If I was a commander and was told most of my veteran troops have been depleted to half squad size I would reorganize squads not let them run around undermanned. That or I would assign some fresh grunts to them to be trained up. As forces become depleted they tend to be organized into smaller and smaller units otherwise whats to stop you having a squad with only one guy left in it.

Because in an extended campaign, the fresh units are the ones that have a full roster and the Vets are the ones that have had casualties. Yeah, in an ideal situation everyone is topped off but that just isn't likely a lot of the time.

 pretre wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
You should also be complaining that Canonesses have Initiative 4 too, then. I'm sure you don't mind downgrading them to Initiative 3 as a house rule-they are, after, all, "mere" humans and shouldn't have Initiative 4. I also hope you don't mind downgrading your human models to WS and BS 3, there's no way that they could EVER be as good of a marksman as a marine or a thousand-year old Eldar!

Someone needs a hug! I wouldn't mind downgrading a canoness to Initiative 3. In fact, I think it is appropriate. I didn't complain when they reduced Seraphim to I 3 because I thought it was appropriate. I think WS/BS are an entirely different thing. If I wasn't clear when I said 'most stats', I meant the physical ones S/T/I/W. Humans should rarely exceed 3 on those values.

Actually thinking that being sardonic helps defend your point, nice one buddy.

In any case that's a lesson to you to be clearer next time. And any case, there's no reason why Imperial Guard officers can't be I4 other than "muh background" which as we all know is sometimes disregarded for game balance anyway.

It would be good internal balance to make senior officers I4, which makes taking a power weapon versus taking a power fist actually a consideration as right now there's very little point in taking a power weapon because he'll be striking last anyway.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 White Ninja wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Veteran squads should be depleted so 5 man makes sense.

Why would they need to be depleted. If I was a commander and was told most of my veteran troops have been depleted to half squad size I would reorganize squads not let them run around undermanned. That or I would assign some fresh grunts to them to be trained up. As forces become depleted they tend to be organized into smaller and smaller units otherwise whats to stop you having a squad with only one guy left in it.

Because in an extended campaign, the fresh units are the ones that have a full roster and the Vets are the ones that have had casualties. Yeah, in an ideal situation everyone is topped off but that just isn't likely a lot of the time.

Again, another "muh background" appeal that might make sense but ultimately reduces enjoyment of the game. Yes, Vets often have casualties. Let players represent that themselves. Have Vets start at 5 men strong and allow upgrades up to 10 men.

Otherwise, whenever a GK player squares off against my Guard I'll tell him to put them away since I have no daemons and GK aren't just going to be used willy-nilly. It's a game first and foremost.

 pretre wrote:

Because in an extended campaign, the fresh units are the ones that have a full roster and the Vets are the ones that have had casualties.

Of course the largest organisational unit is the squad.

A 40K veteran squad could easily be the much depleted remnants of a company and therefore 10 men would be completely justifiable. All that is needed is a variable squad size.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Actually thinking that being sardonic helps defend your point, nice one buddy.

In any case that's a lesson to you to be clearer next time. And any case, there's no reason why Imperial Guard officers can't be I4 other than "muh background" which as we all know is sometimes disregarded for game balance anyway.

It would be good internal balance to make senior officers I4, which makes taking a power weapon versus taking a power fist actually a consideration as right now there's very little point in taking a power weapon because he'll be striking last anyway.

HUG!

There's no reason they can't be I7 either other than 'Muh background'. At some level though, most profiles at least try to look somewhat like they were conceived with the background in mind.

Rather than give them an I bonus to their profile, they should have made Lances strike first in the first round of CC. After all, IG aren't as fast as Eldar or SM, but a long stick with a point on the end certainly helps even the advantage when someone charges you.

 pretre wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Actually thinking that being sardonic helps defend your point, nice one buddy.

In any case that's a lesson to you to be clearer next time. And any case, there's no reason why Imperial Guard officers can't be I4 other than "muh background" which as we all know is sometimes disregarded for game balance anyway.

It would be good internal balance to make senior officers I4, which makes taking a power weapon versus taking a power fist actually a consideration as right now there's very little point in taking a power weapon because he'll be striking last anyway.

HUG!

There's no reason they can't be I7 either other than 'Muh background'. At some level though, most profiles at least try to look somewhat like they were conceived with the background in mind.

Rather than give them an I bonus to their profile, they should have made Lances strike first in the first round of CC. After all, IG aren't as fast as Eldar or SM, but a long stick with a point on the end certainly helps even the advantage when someone charges you.

I'll pass on a hug from a 30-year old dude, thanks brah.

And you obviously missed the point about "game balance". Though even your strawman missed the mark a little bit, since yes actually they could be fast. See Marbo, who is I5 since he's a fast mo-fo. It just happens that way.

Furthermore as I noted it would be good internal balance to have them be I4 so that officers can be equipped in a wider variety of ways. I4 is not a big deal.

Just what I wanted, titans and super-heavies in regular games of 40k...

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
I'll pass on a hug from a 30-year old, thanks brah.

And you obviously missed the point about "game balance". Though even your strawman missed the mark a little bit, since yes actually they could be fast. See Marbo, who is I5 since he's a fast mo-fo. It just happens that way.

Furthermore as I noted it would be good internal balance to have them be I4 so that officers can be equipped in a wider variety of ways. I4 is not a big deal.

Your loss.

No, I didn't miss the point about Game Balance. I gave you an alternate solution that would leave IG at I3 but give them a way to balance out in hand to hand.

Of course exceptional individuals can get above the normal mark. I'm not saying that exceptional special characters can't be above I3. I'm saying that the army shouldn't get a boost. Now, BrookM's original request was a bit vague, as was my response. I was assuming that BrookM was asking 'for an initiative boost on some models.' Not meaning special characters or big IC's but actual groups of models, say 'Veterans' or 'Rough Riders' or 'Company Command Squads' whatever. One or two SC ICs with I4/I5, super powers, whatever. All CCS's are now I4? All Veterans are I4? Not down with that.

I don't think that just because you're a Company Commander you should have lightning reflexes. The legendary Colonel Straken? Heck yeah he should have lightning reflexes. Yeah, I know... 'muh background'.

And if I4 isn't such a big deal, why do you want it so bad?

 pretre wrote:

No, I didn't miss the point about Game Balance. I gave you an alternate solution that would leave IG at I3 but give them a way to balance out in hand to hand.

Wow yeah, for one unit. That really did it. You are master game designer (x2)!

And I'm sure you'll get to hug a ton of little kids tonight for Halloween so you won't miss out for long. ;^)

I don't think that just because you're a Company Commander you should have lightning reflexes. The legendary Colonel Straken? Heck yeah he should have lightning reflexes. Yeah, I know... 'muh background'.

Since when was I4 "lightning reflexes"? Eldar have I5 across the board, now that's "lightning reflexes". Oh right, if Spess have it then nobody else can, I must have forgotten.

And if I4 isn't such a big deal, why do you want it so bad?

I4 would be to put them in line with how they were in 3rd and 4th edition (and put them in line with SoBs) and to make the characters more exceptional and interesting.
You're also heavily overestimating how "badly" I want it. It's more of something I think would be cool but wouldn't be depressed about if it didn't actualize.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
You're also heavily overestimating how "badly" I want it. It's more of something I think would be cool but wouldn't be depressed about if it didn't actualize.

I don't know you've been arguing pretty hard for it for the last half hour or so.

I really don't care either way and neither of our opinions matter in reality, so sure. I4 for everyone!

O my god something new for the IGs harra jolly good old folks

I just hope I can get my Warrior Weapons back!

Yes, close combat IG is an oxymoron, but then again, feral barbarian guardsmen being duped by a manipulative PP who's really just a mouthpiece for a LoC is good fun!

This is interesting.

I haven't decided if its good interesting or bad interesting, but interesting nonetheless. The rumoured Lord of War slot will bridge the playstyle with HH Legion lists and Apoc, for better or for worse.

That first set of rumors in the OP sounds sketchy, the bit about vendettas losing squadrons and FW tanks getting added in particular. Some of it, like the command squad rearrangement sound plausible enough, but that's like saying "there will be guardsmen in the next codex."

I shouldn't even have to mention that rumors of apocalypse weapons getting added are particularly stupid Why do people keep insisting on that, or that baneblades will be added? Even GW isn't that stupid.

I hate to be "that guy" but these rumors reek of wishlisting.

On an unrelated note, there's no real reason why a vet unit should be hard capped at 5 men. 5-10 men makes sense, because you can easily have a squad survive long enough without losing men to become vets, or have it where depleted squads are combined to make a full one (aka exactly how depleted regiments are combined).

 augustus5 wrote:
Just what I wanted, titans and super-heavies in regular games of 40k...

Which you probably won't see much of anyway unless you're already playing Apocalypse sized games. I highly suspect that, if the Lords of War rumor is true, it will be much the same as it is in the Horus Heresy army list, where you can only spend up to 25% of your points on it. Personally, in "regular games of 40k," I would rather face one Baneblade than three Leman Russes, Basilisks, or Manticores. Anyway, I would expect the Lords of War options to be very limited, with probably no titans, and certainly no D-weapons (at least, not as they currently are).

Really torn about this. As an Ork and IG player, i'm so happy to see new IG rumours, but torn because that means Orks are gonna be around April/May time :/

But if super heavies rumour is true, I can finally run Big Mek Buzzgob and his Mega Dread!