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I was shocked he outflanked the dominions to be honest. With his scout move he could have used their 2 immolators to block the dogs/seekers from the middle if delpoyed properly (sideways touching. Remember no T1 assaults, so this could have seriously slowed him down in the movement phases and then on his T1 he's in great striking position on that screamer unit, though I am sure it would have forced them to move somewhere else, possibly the open?

Oh well, as it stands now he is going to outflank with 12" guns possibly on the wrong flank :( The Dominions to me are meant to be sacrificed causing disruption and carnage

 Red Corsair wrote:
I was shocked he outflanked the dominions to be honest. With his scout move he could have used their 2 immolators to block the dogs/seekers from the middle if delpoyed properly (sideways touching. Remember no T1 assaults, so this could have seriously slowed him down in the movement phases and then on his T1 he's in great striking position on that screamer unit, though I am sure it would have forced them to move somewhere else, possibly the open?

Oh well, as it stands now he is going to outflank with 12" guns possibly on the wrong flank :( The Dominions to me are meant to be sacrificed causing disruption and carnage

Outflanking is actually a good strategy against my army. Why didn't he scout in this case?

1. Don't forget I also have a scouting unit (i.e. my dogs). It's a roll-off and if I win, I will be the one who blocks his scouting dominions. Thus, he risks not being able to move them forwards at all.

2. I am going first. He scouts them forwards. That just makes it easier for my fiends and screamers to assault. Remember, no T1 assaults only applies to the unit that scouted. My normal units can still assault if the enemy moves towards me.

3. He needs to put pressure on my backfield. That would force me to divert one of my units on the offensive to go back and take care of his dominions, thus relieving a lot of pressure from his frontlines.

4. Place the objectives nearer to the board edges and now you have a unit that can easily contest and who isn't trapped by my relentless attack.

Naw wrote:
Mental note to myself if using mobile device:

Clicking the spoiler tab for a couple of mins might warrant taking a closer look at what is actually happening. Tried to open sisters turn 2 with no success, because that turn does not exist yet.

So, get it done ok np?

I fixed it so that you'll know which tags are empty.

Weren't able to LOS those shots off the priests?

Even with re-rolls his priest blob would've been hard-pressed to survive with that amount of gribblies with 2++ in range. As it was, with Misfortune and no re-rolls...

I wouldn't really call it a death-star, myself!

Bravo on the movie spoilers!

djn wrote:
Bravo on the movie spoilers!

All but the aftermath. Maybe he will spoil Titanic?

 pretre wrote:
Weren't able to LOS those shots off the priests?

He did. He just failed some of his Look-Out-Sirs.

There is also the problem of placement. I find this is often the case with many units with multiple characters...they all tend to put them in the back. That means a character who does LOS only passes it off to another character (as they happen to be the closest models to each other). Which is why I flew Fateweaver over the unit to his "weak side" - where most of his IC's/characters were.

 Shandara wrote:
Even with re-rolls his priest blob would've been hard-pressed to survive with that amount of gribblies with 2++ in range. As it was, with Misfortune and no re-rolls...

I wouldn't really call it a death-star, myself!

That unit will kill most units that it goes up against (or at least tie them up for a long time).

If I had charged in my khorne-dogs unsupported - without Misfortune, 2++ and without Fateweaver to "soften" them up with his shooting - he could very well win that combat.

Unfortunately for my opponent, I know how to play against deathstar units. If I can't deal with them, I just ignore them and go after the rest of the army.

 jy2 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Weren't able to LOS those shots off the priests?

He did. He just failed some of his Look-Out-Sirs.

There is also the problem of placement. I find this is often the case with many units with multiple characters...they all tend to put them in the back. That means a character who does LOS only passes it off to another character (as they happen to be the closest models to each other). Which is why I flew Fateweaver over the unit to his "weak side" - where most of his IC's/characters were.

Yep. I lost a handful of Sisters from the back to the non-precision strike hits and after a couple of LOS! attempts I was getting to the point where the closest model to one Priest was another Priest. I had to take two wounds on Uriah to keep from losing even more.

 jy2 wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Even with re-rolls his priest blob would've been hard-pressed to survive with that amount of gribblies with 2++ in range. As it was, with Misfortune and no re-rolls...

I wouldn't really call it a death-star, myself!

That unit will kill most units that it goes up against (or at least tie them up for a long time).

If I had charged in my khorne-dogs unsupported - without Misfortune, 2++ and without Fateweaver to "soften" them up with his shooting - he could very well win that combat.

Unfortunately for my opponent, I know how to play against deathstar units. If I can't deal with them, I just ignore them and go after the rest of the army.

Without Misfortune the hounds would have killed only 5 or so of my Sisters. Fateweaver's shooting would've been a lot less effective as well. With 2++, my retaliation wouldn't have killed much, but with Fearless it would've taken several turns to chew through the whole mob, which is what I wanted to happen. After the charge he would've been down to only 30 attacks (from 60!) and wounding on 3+ instead of 2+. I also had 7 characters to feed his beatstick Khorne Herald. So it would've been a very long combat.


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 Red Corsair wrote:
I was shocked he outflanked the dominions to be honest. With his scout move he could have used their 2 immolators to block the dogs/seekers from the middle if delpoyed properly (sideways touching. Remember no T1 assaults, so this could have seriously slowed him down in the movement phases and then on his T1 he's in great striking position on that screamer unit, though I am sure it would have forced them to move somewhere else, possibly the open?

Oh well, as it stands now he is going to outflank with 12" guns possibly on the wrong flank :( The Dominions to me are meant to be sacrificed causing disruption and carnage

There's no way the Dominions get a shot off on the Screamers if I leave them on the board. Even if they survive the first turn (unlikely) they're going to get tied up in an assault (probably by the Seekers, maybe Fateweaver). If that, for some reason, doesn't happen I'm stuck with 12" guns against a unit that can move 36" a turn. On top of that, I've only succeeded in delaying the Seekers by a turn. Outflanking gives me a chance to contest backfield objectives which, even if the Doms never fired a shot, that would be worth more than just letting them get murdered on Turn 1.

Another point to remember, I actually wanted the Flesh Hounds to go after my blob.

Getting charged by Khorne hounds is terrible. You should have either bubble-wrapped with Immos or at least move to cover since you'd strike first.

Incorrect! Bubble wrapping with Immos would just mean dead Immos. (Not to mention the dead Battle Sisters who lost their rides.) If Misfortune isn't in play, the blob will lock down the Flesh Hounds until almost the very end of the game.

In the average case, even ignoring casualties against the Hounds, the blob should make it until around the top of Turn 5 if it gets charged at the top of Turn 2.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Getting charged by Khorne hounds is terrible. You should have either bubble-wrapped with Immos or at least move to cover since you'd strike first.

I'd say he under-estimated my hounds + buffs. Then again, most people playing against this type of daemons for the very first time will often do that. He actually wanted me to charge his blob. He just didn't expect, between Misfortune, Fatey's shooting and the actual assault itself that I could do so much damage.

Chaos lists still broken, water still wet.

And fire still burns?

And 2++ reroll is still the reason I'm playing warmachine until GW pulls their heads out of their money holes.

No no, water isnt wet, water falls!

cmon now,

wind blows, fire burns, water falls, and earth.. does something, is earthy i guess, i dont think she ever said that one.

still, tough game. Demons are nasty nasty.

Thanks for the report! I think with more practice, you'll do a lot better. jy2 is a crazy good player who is very familiar with his list. This is one of your first outings with a new book.

Also, ignore the troll.

rematch!

Amerikon wrote:
Incorrect! Bubble wrapping with Immos would just mean dead Immos. (Not to mention the dead Battle Sisters who lost their rides.) If Misfortune isn't in play, the blob will lock down the Flesh Hounds until almost the very end of the game.

In the average case, even ignoring casualties against the Hounds, the blob should make it until around the top of Turn 5 if it gets charged at the top of Turn 2.

With dogs only being strength 4 because of a disordered charge, wouldn't the immolators have a fair chance of surviving

Yep, Jink + Invisibility means 2+ re-rollable cover for Screamers. That means he can also give 2++ to another daemon unit with the Grimoire and Forewarning. If that's a Tzeentch unit, it's 2++ re-rollable. Super cool, huh?

Mmmm, geedubs latest 6:ed balance success.
This game is less and less fun to play with every edition.

Wonder what 7:ed will bring, only op skimmers vs only flying MCs perhaps? All of course, made utterly rock-paper-scissor unbalanced.

7th ed = Every army consists of a single unit of one to three 1++ rerollable flying monstrous creatures on jetbikes with 8 psychic powers a turn, 10 base WS9 I9 str10 AP1 attacks on the charge and doesn't allow overwatch shooting for units it assaults, if you take 2 instead of three they can be deployed in a drop pod that doesn't scatter and comes in on turn one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fxeni wrote:

Amerikon wrote:
Incorrect! Bubble wrapping with Immos would just mean dead Immos. (Not to mention the dead Battle Sisters who lost their rides.) If Misfortune isn't in play, the blob will lock down the Flesh Hounds until almost the very end of the game.

In the average case, even ignoring casualties against the Hounds, the blob should make it until around the top of Turn 5 if it gets charged at the top of Turn 2.

With dogs only being strength 4 because of a disordered charge, wouldn't the immolators have a fair chance of surviving

Rule conveniently forgotten once the models are on the table.

 Fxeni wrote:

Amerikon wrote:
Incorrect! Bubble wrapping with Immos would just mean dead Immos. (Not to mention the dead Battle Sisters who lost their rides.) If Misfortune isn't in play, the blob will lock down the Flesh Hounds until almost the very end of the game.

In the average case, even ignoring casualties against the Hounds, the blob should make it until around the top of Turn 5 if it gets charged at the top of Turn 2.

With dogs only being strength 4 because of a disordered charge, wouldn't the immolators have a fair chance of surviving

Yes, it would and it did survive.

What killed his immolator was my Khorned Herald, who has a higher strength, plus the whole unit was buffed up with Prescience.

dadakkaest wrote:

 Fxeni wrote:

Amerikon wrote:
Incorrect! Bubble wrapping with Immos would just mean dead Immos. (Not to mention the dead Battle Sisters who lost their rides.) If Misfortune isn't in play, the blob will lock down the Flesh Hounds until almost the very end of the game.

In the average case, even ignoring casualties against the Hounds, the blob should make it until around the top of Turn 5 if it gets charged at the top of Turn 2.

With dogs only being strength 4 because of a disordered charge, wouldn't the immolators have a fair chance of surviving

Rule conveniently forgotten once the models are on the table.

Now why would you assume we forgot about the disordered charge rule? Yes, I was striking without the charge bonus and without Furious Charge but with Prescience instead.

pretre wrote:Thanks for the report! I think with more practice, you'll do a lot better. jy2 is a crazy good player who is very familiar with his list. This is one of your first outings with a new book.

You know, I'm not so sure. I'm not saying I lost even though I played perfectly (which I surely did not) but I think when the Daemons have all the right powers and they cast them appropriately, there's not a lot you can do about it.

He's got two units that I flat out can't kill (Screamers and Flesh Hounds), and a third that is extremely hard to kill (Fateweaver). What do I do? At that point you're pretty much at the mercy of the Daemon player. You have to either kill whatever is on the board that isn't buffed out or flail against the super units and hope to get lucky. If you can't kill or delay your enemy's units there's really nothing left to do. The list isn't invincible because there are a lot of moving parts. You need to get Forewarning and/or Invisibility, you need to pass the Grimoire test, you need to pass the psychic test, and your opponent needs to fail to Deny the Witch.

If the Daemons get the right powers, you need to be able to hang on long enough until the inevitable Grimoire/psychic test fails. If you can't do that you're just boned.

Fxeni wrote:

Amerikon wrote:
Incorrect! Bubble wrapping with Immos would just mean dead Immos. (Not to mention the dead Battle Sisters who lost their rides.) If Misfortune isn't in play, the blob will lock down the Flesh Hounds until almost the very end of the game.

In the average case, even ignoring casualties against the Hounds, the blob should make it until around the top of Turn 5 if it gets charged at the top of Turn 2.

With dogs only being strength 4 because of a disordered charge, wouldn't the immolators have a fair chance of surviving

They certainly would have a better chance. The Hounds were rerolling to hit, so on the average case they'd get about 6 or so glances. If you really wanted to play agressively you can split the Khorne Herald off from the Hounds and then each would get their assault bonus. The hounds are also fast enough that they really only need to pop one Immo to breach the bubble wrap. Unless you've got a narrow gap where you can block it off a couple of layers deep that's not really a winning proposition.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

dadakkaest wrote:
Rule conveniently forgotten once the models are on the table.

Passive-aggressively implying that Jy2 cheated? Way to stay classy.

This battle actually makes me wonder how well Celestine + a unit of flamer-toting Seraphim would have done against this army. Four strength 3 and one strength 5 templates with shred would have made a mockery of 2+ rerollable cover. And against a unit that actually had a rerollable 2+ invulnerable, Celestine (with or without the Seraphim) could charge in to tie them up. Against Flesh Hounds, at least, they could hold for 1-2 turns and then have Celestine hit and run to go tie something else up, thus keeping those Doggies in place for a turn.

Otherwise, great batrep! It's a shame about the Priest Bomb and the end result, but I think this was a case where Jy2 had the paper to Amerikon's rock (ie, Misfortune). As has already been pointed out by Jy2 and others, the Priest Bomb would have held out reliably well if it had actually gotten its armour rerolls. I think that, and Jy2 keeping his Screamer Star away from Condemnors, were what won the Daemons the game, moreso than those much-reviled 2++ units..

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
This battle actually makes me wonder how well Celestine + a unit of flamer-toting Seraphim would have done against this army. Four strength 3 and one strength 5 templates with shred would have made a mockery of 2+ rerollable cover. And against a unit that actually had a rerollable 2+ invulnerable, Celestine (with or without the Seraphim) could charge in to tie them up. Against Flesh Hounds, at least, they could hold for 1-2 turns and then have Celestine hit and run to go tie something else up, thus keeping those Doggies in place for a turn.

Yeah, I had thought about that. Celestine and a squad of Seras is usually a mainstay in my armies. I didn't take them this time because I wanted Uriah to be the Warlord for 5++ on my mob and I also thought I had enough flamer in the other units that Seras would be overkill. But an accurate deep strike would really take a dent out of the Screamer unit. A quick back-of-the-envelope count would give around 8 unsaved wounds. If they survived the next round they might have a chance to knock off one of the Heralds which would be huge. It probably wouldn't have gone as well against the Flesh Hounds. Even if they were all bunched up I'd have a hard time killing more than two or three of them. 2++ on a 2W critter is super hard to get through.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
Otherwise, great batrep! It's a shame about the Priest Bomb and the end result, but I think this was a case where Jy2 had the paper to Amerikon's rock (ie, Misfortune). As has already been pointed out by Jy2 and others, the Priest Bomb would have held out reliably well if it had actually gotten its armour rerolls. I think that, and Jy2 keeping his Screamer Star away from Condemnors, were what won the Daemons the game, moreso than those much-reviled 2++ units..

I agree. If I hadn't been otherwise umm... pre-occupied with getting the crap knocked out of me, a couple of well placed Condemnor shots could've cut the heart out of the Daemons.

Amerikon wrote:

dadakkaest wrote:
Rule conveniently forgotten once the models are on the table.

Passive-aggressively implying that Jy2 cheated? Way to stay classy.

No, any implication of that sort is not intended. Just that people tend to get ahead of themselves and forget rules.

Hopefully when the new =][= edex drops it will be easier to ally with sisters as battle brothers. That would require the purchase of two codices of course.

Had high hopes for sisters this match, hard matchup when daemons get their powers rolling. Loving the battle reports coming out since the new dex dropped.