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MarkyMark wrote:
As well as Gate I assume?. With 4 heralds 2 of them sometimes not rolling on the Tzeentch table, plently of times I have failed to get forewarning. Thats 11 rolls including fateweaver and not swapping any powers out. That is like a 97% chance of getting forewarning. Tiggy is a lot lower and without say a raven or LR to transport that bomb I wouldnt be relying on that any time soon to be honest. My bum has had enough of failing to roll a 2 for one power let alone wanting to roll 2 on 2 tables....

As far as I know the Centurians are all Grav Cannons and give a 30" bubble of "F*** off"

It really does suck to face.

Especially if Calgar is around too...which is a lot of what I have been seeing.

 ductvader wrote:
As far as I know the Centurians are all Grav Cannons and give a 30" bubble of "F*** off"

It really does suck to face.

Especially if Calgar is around too...which is a lot of what I have been seeing.

How/Why does Calgar make that work?

 labmouse42 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
As far as I know the Centurians are all Grav Cannons and give a 30" bubble of "F*** off"

It really does suck to face.

Especially if Calgar is around too...which is a lot of what I have been seeing.

How/Why does Calgar make that work?

Sorry, Calgar just makes the rest of the army more deadly. He's not particularly in the "star"

It's quite a team up

 ductvader wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
As well as Gate I assume?. With 4 heralds 2 of them sometimes not rolling on the Tzeentch table, plently of times I have failed to get forewarning. Thats 11 rolls including fateweaver and not swapping any powers out. That is like a 97% chance of getting forewarning. Tiggy is a lot lower and without say a raven or LR to transport that bomb I wouldnt be relying on that any time soon to be honest. My bum has had enough of failing to roll a 2 for one power let alone wanting to roll 2 on 2 tables....

As far as I know the Centurians are all Grav Cannons and give a 30" bubble of "F*** off"

It really does suck to face.

Especially if Calgar is around too...which is a lot of what I have been seeing.

I feel bad for Centurions if they see a Vindicator and get a pie plate to the face...

Don't forget Draigowing. They may no longer be top dog deathstar, but they are still a strong deathstar.

 jy2 wrote:
Don't forget Draigowing. They may no longer be top dog deathstar, but they are still a strong deathstar.

And probably even stronger once Inquisition drops.

Will be interesting to see what funky wargear they get but thats about all the other supps have been, warlord trait table and a few pieces of wargear only one of which has been that good.

 ductvader wrote:
I would heavily recommend proxying the models until the tyranid book drops...both screamers and seer heavily depend on psykers and all rumors point towards tyanids being this huge anti psychic/LD reduction capabilities.

I would prefer a -4 to Ld instead of the current roll 3D6, but I play Daemons and as someone already mentioned, Tzeentch psykers get a +3 to Ld when casting, so it's not a huge penalty for me.

MarkyMark wrote:
Will be interesting to see what funky wargear they get but thats about all the other supps have been, warlord trait table and a few pieces of wargear only one of which has been that good.

Right, but this is codex: Inquisition.

I vote screamer star because it relies on less psychic powers and doesn't die hideously if it should ever encounter an army with psyshock weapons...

Also, LD 8 is hard as heck to hit.


I guess one of the things the farseer star has is that it doesn't have to be your primary detachment... it's something at least.

 Orock wrote:

I dunno, both units seem like huge oversights that gw just didn't care to test further, and I hate them both. And 3+ riptides, and waveserpent spam, and crossant spam....

and Ham Spam

Belly wrote:Calling the Council the FOTM is a bit rich. It has been a solid list for quite some time, having been a good build with the previous codex.

Even without the Baron, there's still ways to make the council work, they're just not quite as effective. But when DE get a new codex (and lord knows when that is), i'm sure there'll be some synergy there, there always is.

Been playing Eldar since 2nd and a jet council since 3rd when it became possible. I'm fully aware the units been around for a while. It's always been good, but it wasn't an instant win button until the new codex. It has the tools to be good outside of the DE codex as well, but it gets significantly less powerful w/out trophies and the Baron. Honestly, I don't see the Baron changing much but the trophies are definitely out, and that's where it's going to hurt a tournament build.

No one is dumb enough to say the Jetcouncil is dead w/out trophies/Baron, but it will be weaker. A problem the Screemerstar isn't going to have going forward, which was the point of the post.

Powerguy wrote:

 Dash2021 wrote:
Keep one thing in mind about the Jet council: It relies heavily on DE to make it work. And at the rate codecs are coming out, it won't be long before the composition changes, and who knows what that will look like. Grisly trophies are almost guaranteed to be a thing of the past at the least.

Screemerstar is self contained w/in it's own codex. It's not going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

Food for thought before you plop down cash on the FOTM.

You can get Hit and Run from a Tau Commander and that is the single biggest buff the Baron brings. Grisly Trophies are helpful but you can survive without them, you have enough Warlocks so you usually have redundancy in important powers. Imo the list wouldn't really be any weaker if you ran it with Tau, the Council itself might be slightly weaker (the Commander is slower etc), but the rest of the Tau codex is significantly stronger than the Dark Eldar one - you would end up with more tactical options with the extra shooting you add from Tau (Kroot, Broadsides, maybe Riptide etc).

I agree, if you're dead set on running a council there are ways to make it work. But the Buffmander is definitely hurting your mobility, which is a pretty drastic hit to your effectiveness. A Jetcouncil's bread and butter is multi-assaults, and having to daisy chain back to your commander means fewer bodies to do that with. Also, don't underestimate trophies. Your entire armies strat. is based around psychic powers, you can't have enough fail-safes especially rolling on Ld 8 for some of your most important powers. GK and tyranids can be easy tournament spoilers w/out this protection.

Again, not saying it's impossible to make work, just that it loses some efficacy. Enough to go from being one of (if not the best) deathstars in the game? Dunno, we won't find out till a new DE codex rolls around, cause the jetseer council now is such a reliable unit it's hard to justify gambling on another build.

Whichever one I'm playing . I've been on a kick with these stupid armies lately.

Strange there are no fans of the beast star at all. ... it really is quite a good deathstar as well with multiole ways to configure it. Of course a new DE codex might change all that too.

Im actually surprised no one has mentioned the shooting portion of the screamerstar yet... That's some of the most absurd amount of shooting the game has to offer....

lets say you're running 4 Heralds + Fateweaver.

Ok.. So all your heralds systematically roll on div until you get Forewarning. In most cases, you're getting is 90% of the time. And once you get it, you simply take 1 ability from the Change tree in the Daemon codex for the primaris power... Best case scenario, all 4 of your Heralds know it, and each turn can fire a whopping 11D6 (not 12 because you need that 1 charge to cast off Forwarning, remember) shots that are str 5 ap 4.

Kicker time! If your Heralds managed to get Missfortune, you force your opponents to reroll their saved throws! IE if you have rerolls from failed throws, this effectively means you take the first result and no rerolls happen at all.

Kicker 2! Prescience for the cost of -1D6 again from your 12D6 shots, allows you to effectively have TL 10D6 Str5 AP5 shooti.

 felixcat wrote:

Strange there are no fans of the beast star at all. ... it really is quite a good deathstar as well with multiole ways to configure it. Of course a new DE codex might change all that too.

Stars usually have a hard counter to them that makes them difficult to play. Beasts fall into this category.

I would be more inclined to call the Beast pack a 'Mini' Star, because it rarely goes over 500pts and is just as effective with 10 Khymerae and a Farseer as 20 with a Farseer and Baron.

The beast pack with 25 khymera, eldrad, seer with shard and baron is very strong and costs 850 points with everything it needs. At full strength (never hit any unit with this but oh well) it has 100 strength 4 attacks with prescience and possibly doom/misfortune will likely go through even the most resilient of units and be able to tie up a lot of the opponent's army or hit lots of tanks.

Its main advantage over a lot of other deathstars is how easy it is to multi assault a lot of units. It also has a built in 4+ which is quite strong plus is very resilient to psychic powers with eldrad and 2 runes of warding in there. It is likely to roll fortune and if you can get invisibility you are in big trouble.

I think it is very comparable to the jet council which costs a similar amount of points and will suit different play styles.

Jpr wrote:
The beast pack with 25 khymera, eldrad, seer with shard and baron is very strong and costs 850 points with everything it needs. At full strength (never hit any unit with this but oh well) it has 100 strength 4 attacks with prescience and possibly doom/misfortune will likely go through even the most resilient of units and be able to tie up a lot of the opponent's army or hit lots of tanks.

Its main advantage over a lot of other deathstars is how easy it is to multi assault a lot of units. It also has a built in 4+ which is quite strong plus is very resilient to psychic powers with eldrad and 2 runes of warding in there. It is likely to roll fortune and if you can get invisibility you are in big trouble.

I think it is very comparable to the jet council which costs a similar amount of points and will suit different play styles.

The difference will come when you run into something like a SL star. With only S4 attacks, you will find yourself about 66% of the time being unable to even wound that star when its IA'd. The seer star has the huge advantage of fleshbane. At least you could H&R from it.

 felixcat wrote:

Strange there are no fans of the beast star at all. ... it really is quite a good deathstar as well with multiole ways to configure it. Of course a new DE codex might change all that too.

The beast star got a kick in the jimmies with so many armies that have mass amounts of high strength ignore cover weapons. Razorwing flocks with invisibility are not nearly as nasty when you have wave serpents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jpr wrote:
I think it is very comparable to the jet council which costs a similar amount of points and will suit different play styles.

Are you sure? IIRC this is what I used.
120 Farseer on bike
120 Farseer on bike
105 Baron
300 Six warlocks
645 total

That's a 200 point difference between the two. That's an additional unit in your army. It's pretty significant.

A unit I've been fantasising about is a fully tooled up Chapter Master and Vanguard Veteran Squad.

Raven Guard Chapter Tactics...

Chapter Master with...
Burning Blade
Shield Eternal
Artificer Armour
Jump Pack

Vanguard Veterans x5 (I tend to use small 5 model jump pack units) with...
Vet Sgt (if its an option for Vanguard Vets)
Jump Packs
5 Storm Shields
A Relic Blade or Power fist.
(if pts were no obstacle, then I'd add another 4 Power fists or something).


With the Chapter Tactics, they'd move fast (Jump packs used in Movement AND Assault) and hit HARD...

1) re-roll Hammer of Wrath
2) 4-5 S7 Ap2 attacks from the CM
3) 2-3 S6 Ap3 attacks or 3 S8 Ap2 attacks
4) 8-12 S4 Ap- Attacks or 8-12 S8 Ap2 attacks.


Thats gotta hurt, both my enemy and my list. I think this would come to around 600 pts - the Chapter Master alone is about 270pts. Ideal targets for these guys would be enemy HQ's, monstrous creatures, shooty elites and anything else that they can chew through on their way to killing something else. This isn't intended to be a competitive choice - its more for fluff and cool factor. And because I love it when my HQ kicks arse in CC.

In smaller games, the Chapter Master can be toned down to a Captain with power armour, storm shield, jump pack and relic blade (about 160pts), and the Vanguards would be swapped for Assault marines. Though I'd like to magnetise both the Chapter Master and the Vanguards for versatility, and because I want these guys to be my signature unit - "Shadow Master / Shadow Captain Edithae" and his Veteran companions.


I've already taken the first steps. I have a Captain Korvydae miniature that I will try to canibalise to supply a torso for Edithae. I'm going to use an Anvil Miniatures head when the one I want is restocked. The Forgeworld Mark II Power Weapon Set has some AMAZING looking weapons - Lightning claws that have actual talons that extend from the fingers of the gauntlet (Very Night Lord esque I think) as opposed to later versions that simply have blades attached to the back of a power fist. And I recently got the new Vanguard Veteran box.

Head #1 on the left.
http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=77_66&product_id=189

I run a toned down beast star as my region isn't hardcore competitive. I'm not going to tell anyone it's the best deathstar but don't sweep it under the rug so fast.

I use a ton of khykerae with a few razor wings with the baron, farseer with shard, and spirit seer. It's not beating every unit out there head to head, but it has a ton of fearless models with 4++ invuln, 2+ cover, potential fortune, rending to wound anything, 7 characters for challenges and precision strikes.

The key in its use is tar pitting key units at clutch moments, then hit and running out so my army can shoot the previously locked unit down.

If I were to optimize it, I'd use baron, 2 jet seers, 20 khykerae, and 2 razor wings.

I'm also building a iyanden star with eldrad, 5 spirit seers, and 10 wraith blades with axes and shields. T6 unit with 4++ and hopefully fortune on eldrad, then 10 rolls on telepathy. Should end up with enough puppet masters, hallucinates, and terrifies to be one of the best disruption units in the game.

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
A unit I've been fantasising about is a fully tooled up Chapter Master and Vanguard Veteran Squad.

Raven Guard Chapter Tactics...

Chapter Master with...
Burning Blade
Shield Eternal
Artificer Armour
Jump Pack

Vanguard Veterans x5 (I tend to use small 5 model jump pack units) with...
Vet Sgt (if its an option for Vanguard Vets)
Jump Packs
5 Storm Shields
A Relic Blade or Power fist.
(if pts were no obstacle, then I'd add another 4 Power fists or something).


With the Chapter Tactics, they'd move fast (Jump packs used in Movement AND Assault) and hit HARD...

1) re-roll Hammer of Wrath
2) 4-5 S7 Ap2 attacks from the CM
3) 2-3 S6 Ap3 attacks or 3 S8 Ap2 attacks
4) 8-12 S4 Ap- Attacks or 8-12 S8 Ap2 attacks.


Thats gotta hurt, both my enemy and my list. I think this would come to around 600 pts - the Chapter Master alone is about 270pts. Ideal targets for these guys would be enemy HQ's, monstrous creatures, shooty elites and anything else that they can chew through on their way to killing something else. This isn't intended to be a competitive choice - its more for fluff and cool factor. And because I love it when my HQ kicks arse in CC.

In smaller games, the Chapter Master can be toned down to a Captain with power armour, storm shield, jump pack and relic blade (about 160pts), and the Vanguards would be swapped for Assault marines. Though I'd like to magnetise both the Chapter Master and the Vanguards for versatility, and because I want these guys to be my signature unit - "Shadow Master / Shadow Captain Edithae" and his Veteran companions.


I've already taken the first steps. I have a Captain Korvydae miniature that I will try to canibalise to supply a torso for Edithae. I'm going to use an Anvil Miniatures head when the one I want is restocked. The Forgeworld Mark II Power Weapon Set has some AMAZING looking weapons - Lightning claws that have actual talons that extend from the fingers of the gauntlet (Very Night Lord esque I think) as opposed to later versions that simply have blades attached to the back of a power fist. And I recently got the new Vanguard Veteran box.

Head #1 on the left.
http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=77_66&product_id=189

I run something similar to this at the moment, I have found raven guard to be quite good at dealing with things such as triptide lists and serpent spam, they are so fast with the re-roll to assault and the hammer of wrath bonus, I even prefur going 2nd now