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2013/11/17 19:44:50
Subject: Re:2K Jy2's Da Rushmore Orkcrons vs Spam Adam's Triptide Taudar (Turn 5 Up)
Not sure if it's been said, but you have to declare the Waaaghduring the shooting phase (unless Ghazghkull is your army). It wouldn't have changed anything in this case, fortunately.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/18 01:20:00
Deffskullz desert scavengers
Thousand Sons
2013/11/18 04:49:31
Subject: 2K Jy2's Da Rushmore Orkcrons vs Spam Adam's Triptide Taudar (Turn 5 Up)
Dozer Blades wrote: I see you put the nob bikers on one flank and the wraiths on the other. Do you think it would have been better not to have split them so far apart? Maybe it'd have been better to go straight up the middle.
Nope. I put them on the flanks for several reasons:
1. I put them in the middle and my opponent would have just shot them up. Putting them on the flanks denied a lot of my opponent's shooting to them because of the BLOS terrain.
2. Usually, you put your slower units in the middle and the faster ones on the outside. That is because the fast units can cover a lot more ground and faster. By putting my 2 deathstars in the middle, I would have to put the orks on the outside. That would most likely have delayed their assault to Turn 3 of maybe even Turn 4, thus allowing my opponent more time to shoot them up.
3. Whether I put them in the middle or on the flanks, I am looking at no earlier than a Turn 2 assault.
Vineheart01 wrote: i lost my bikernobz like that once against Eldar waveserpent spam. Cool, you ignore cover with an AP- weapon so im still rolling 4+/FNP. He killed the entire unit with 2 waveserpents because i failed every-single-damn-save lol.
Yeah, that's just bad dice. He did 15 Wounds against my nob bikers. On average, I should have passed 5 FNP's. I didn't pass a single one. But that's dice for you. You just need to compensate elsewhere. Fortunately for me, I got some good rolls on my T2, making 2 outrageously long assaults and also by his firewarriors rolling Insane Courage for their morale test.
Well, that was unexpected. Are you happy with this Orkcron list, though? I'm surprised that you went with footslogging choppy ork boyz blobs. With such an unstable victory I can't imagine that you believe this list is solid enough for your liking.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/18 06:36:48
Paradigm wrote: The key to being able to enjoy the game in real life and also be a member of this online community is to know where you draw the line. What someone online on the other side of the world that you've never met says should never deter you from taking a unit for being either weak or OP. The community is a great place to come for tactics advice, and there is a lot of very sound opinions and idea out there, but at the end of the day, play the game how you want to... Don't worry about the hordes of Dakka descending on your gaming club to arrest you for taking one heldrake or not using a screamerstar. Knowing the standard opinion (and that's all it is) on what is good/bad and conforming to that opinion religiously are two entirely separate things.
2013/11/18 06:37:17
Subject: 2K Jy2's Da Rushmore Orkcrons vs Spam Adam's Triptide Taudar (Completed)
Nym wrote: Not sure if it's been said, but you have to declare the Waaaghduring the shooting phase (unless Ghazghkull is your army). It wouldn't have changed anything in this case, fortunately.
You know what? I actually knew that, but just got so caught up in the game that I declared it at the wrong time. My intent was to declare in the Shooting but for dramatic effect, I did it in the Assault phase. Fortunately for me, it didn't really matter.
Also, in a casual game like this, my opponent probably would have let it go, just like I let him do his nova-charges and psychic powers even after the beginning of the Movement phase was over (i.e. when he already started moving his models).
hippesthippo wrote: Yet another Taudar player throwing away his Jetbikes. This is the third report in a row. If he loses, it's entirely his own fault.
YOU WIN GAMES WITH OBJECTIVES. Srsly, I'm weeping for Eldar Jetbikes everywhere right now.
Great report so far, Jim. Heckuva cliffhanger.
Yeah, he made some mistakes this game. His 2 biggest?
1. The positioning of his jetbikes.
2. Disembarking all of his troops, especially with my threats so close by.
Lucarikx wrote: That was definitely a hard fought game! Losing most of the Nobz in one turn was brutal, but the survivors had a huge impact.
It looked like it boiled down to playing the mission more than the opponent.
Lucarikx
Yeah, my eyes are always on the mission. I'm not so sure my opponent played with the same focus. That was the difference there (and a little bit of luck ).
Talore wrote: Well, that was unexpected. Are you happy with this Orkcron list, though? I'm surprised that you went with footslogging choppy ork boyz blobs. With such an unstable victory I can't imagine that you believe this list is solid enough for your liking.
I prefer shoota boys. Unfortunately, most of my boys are of the choppa variety so I decided just to go WYSIWYG instead of proxying them all as shoota boys.
I like my list. It's not the only list I would play and it definitely isn't the strongest list out there, but I enjoy this style of play. I don't really look at this as a tournament-winning list. I look at it more as a fun list for me. I am also limited by my models currently and don't have transports of any type for them.
But don't be surprised if, in the future, you see my orkcrons with 2 units of nob bikers and my wraithstar. I would probably consider that my future competitive ork list.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/18 06:45:50
Lucarikx wrote: That was definitely a hard fought game! Losing most of the Nobz in one turn was brutal, but the survivors had a huge impact.
It looked like it boiled down to playing the mission more than the opponent.
Lucarikx
Yeah, my eyes are always on the mission. I'm not so sure my opponent played with the same focus. That was the difference there (and a little bit of luck ).
I do feel like this is quite a major factor in many of your batreps. I've yet to see any of your opponents match your focus when it comes to seizing objectives and playing to the mission, even at the list-building stage. Using the BAO mission setup does seem to give you a slight advantage in this regard, as it is typically objective-heavy so it's much more difficult for "damage-centric" netlists to score/contest every point compared to vanilla 40k. That said, it's a much more balanced game-type and the Orks did very well, despite coming close to getting tabled.
Congrats on the upset!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/18 14:10:28
Your opponent failed to play the Objectives. There is very little reason one of the two Riptides couldn't have contested the Objective near the Immortals. Even if it meant not shooting, 6" +3/5d6 was more than enough to guarantee you couldn't win T5.
Not to mention putting the Jetbikes in danger like that. Your opponent failed to play the mission and had absolutely no reason to lose that game. Disappointing to say the least.
Solid list, shaky play. Congrats on being focused on the mission, it has won you another game.
Believe it or not, I've actually been doing poorly "by the bell" in this edition. This is probably the 1st Turn 5 ending that went my way in about 5 games.
Lucarikx wrote: That was definitely a hard fought game! Losing most of the Nobz in one turn was brutal, but the survivors had a huge impact.
It looked like it boiled down to playing the mission more than the opponent.
Lucarikx
Yeah, my eyes are always on the mission. I'm not so sure my opponent played with the same focus. That was the difference there (and a little bit of luck ).
I do feel like this is quite a major factor in many of your batreps. I've yet to see any of your opponents match your focus when it comes to seizing objectives and playing to the mission, even at the list-building stage. Using the BAO mission setup does seem to give you a slight advantage in this regard, as it is typically objective-heavy so it's much more difficult for "damage-centric" netlists to score/contest every point compared to vanilla 40k. That said, it's a much more balanced game-type and the Orks did very well, despite coming close to getting tabled.
Congrats on the upset!
I've got to admit, in this game, it was like my opponent was on auto-pilot. Adam's probably too used to blowing away his opponents that getting to objectives might be a secondary concern to him. It also may be over-confidence once he saw that he was blowing away my army. Unfortunately, you just can't do that against another high-level player. They will find a way to persevere, even if it's praying to the dice gods to have the dice go their way just 1 time.
I like the BAO scenarios because it balances out the missions somewhat. This gives armies a fighting chance even if they are fighting the seer council/Draigowing in a VP mission or nob bikers in the Relic. I like the multiple-paths-to-success scenarios. This also encourages players who would normally give up to keep playing because they still have a chance, at least for the other scenario.
Zagman wrote: Your opponent failed to play the Objectives. There is very little reason one of the two Riptides couldn't have contested the Objective near the Immortals. Even if it meant not shooting, 6" +3/5d6 was more than enough to guarantee you couldn't win T5.
Not to mention putting the Jetbikes in danger like that. Your opponent failed to play the mission and had absolutely no reason to lose that game. Disappointing to say the least.
Solid list, shaky play. Congrats on being focused on the mission, it has won you another game.
I believe it was a matter of realizing too late what he needed to do. If he had set out for the objectives just even a turn earlier, he would have had me.
Regarding the riptides:
1. He either failed his Nova for the 4D6" move or it was the one with just 1W left and he didn't want to risk charging him up.
2. He still had something like 40 SMS shots remaining (2 devilfish, 2 riptides, 6 broadsides). He probably figured that there was no way my immortals would have survived that. Yes, when it counted, I rolled great for my immortal saves.
I must admit the jetbikes was a huge blunder on his part. On the bright side, those jetbikes did kill 1.5 nob bikers as well as some ork boys so they more than made their points back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/18 15:42:10
Throwing away jetbikes like that and he deserves to lose. I don't get it, thats the fastest unit in the game, how hard s it to hide them from your assault range lol.
Throwing away jetbikes like that and he deserves to lose. I don't get it, thats the fastest unit in the game, how hard s it to hide them from your assault range lol.
Kroots are ok. He's actually going to incorporate some kroots into his army, not so much for their ability to outflanks as it is more for an anti-scout/infiltrate deterrent.
But personally, I think he needs to run 2x3 jetbikes. Perhaps drop 1 devilfish for both the jetbikes and kroots.
Gork and Mork wrote: The look on your opponents face must have been priceless...
Oh yeah. He was pretty stunned by the outcome. He was also kicking himself for letting this one slip by.
I actually felt bad for snatching victory from the jaws of defeat in this one (or rather, for my opponent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory ) and apologized to him afterwards. But what's done is done. I'm sure he's learned a lot from this game.
Throwing away jetbikes like that and he deserves to lose. I don't get it, thats the fastest unit in the game, how hard s it to hide them from your assault range lol.
Kroots are ok. He's actually going to incorporate some kroots into his army, not so much for their ability to outflanks as it is more for an anti-scout/infiltrate deterrent.
But personally, I think he needs to run 2x3 jetbikes. Perhaps drop 1 devilfish for both the jetbikes and kroots.
I think he needs to drop a Devilfish and the Disruption Pod Upgrades on his other two to bolster the remaining Firewarrior Squad to two squads of 6 or one squad of 6 and a base Kroot Squad. The pick up another Jetbike Squad and give his Farseer a Bike.
A bike for his Farseer alone bring enough contesting ability to win him games. Not to mention what another two scoring units would do for him.
I think your crons did more than your orks. Had that flank failed..
From my own experience playing against Tau gunlines, they seem to be afraid of moving, ie. playing for objectives. They'll rather concentrate on tabling you.
Would be fun watching your fast army vs a Tau suit/tide army.
2013/11/19 08:05:51
Subject: Re:2K Jy2's Da Rushmore Orkcrons vs Spam Adam's Triptide Taudar (Completed)
I would like to thank you for your reports, they are really well made and interesting to read from a "gamer" point of view - even those who are not native english speakers like myself.
I still think that it is your necrons that made you win the battle more than the orks. It's quite sad to see "necrons + whatever else" bring so much to the primary detachment, but well...that's how the game is for now.
Still, you played that game really clever and your victory was not stolen, from my point of view. Playing the scenario is always rewarding!
2013/11/19 17:42:13
Subject: Re:2K Jy2's Da Rushmore Orkcrons vs Spam Adam's Triptide Taudar (Completed)
Man, what a rough game. I expected to get pummeled, but honestly, I wasn't expecting to get pummeled that badly. I actually thought I would put up more of a fight than that. So how did my opponent managed to inflict so much damage?
1. He went 1st. By going 1st, he had 1 extra turn of shooting against my army, and each of his shooting phases was significant. I'm beginning to think that against Tau, you do want to go 1st in most cases.
2. Quality of shots versus quantity of shots. In this case, my opponent had both. He's got a lot of shots and when those shots are boosted by markerlights, Prescience, Guide and the Buffmander, they also become quality shots also. Not only does he have a high output of shots, but his shots are also highly efficient as well, meaning he hits with most of those shots. That will reduce most armies to scrap in no time.
3. No cover against the majority of his shots. Between SMS, markerlights and the Buffmander, it was almost as if we were playing on a terrain-less table. Between the efficiency of his shots and the lack of cover, expect to lose non-3+/2+ models like there's no tomorrow.
But despite his firepower, I still pulled off the upset. How?
1. As most people here would agree, he misplayed his jetbikes. He's better off hiding them than to involve them in the offense.
2. I felt he made a mistake by disembarking his firewarriors, especially with my threats so close by. I understand that he wanted to increase his firepower, but I wouldn't do it at the expense of the troops. At least keep 1, maybe 2, in their vehicles and head towards the objectives with them. Also, my opponent still has something to learn about proper screening techniques.
3. He brought a mobile Tau army but didn't really take advantage of it. Devilfish just stayed put and riptides castled up instead of spreading out. More importantly, he should have made out for the objectives much earlier (at least 1 turn earlier than he did).
4. While I had some bad dice (not making a single FNP save, failing to sweep his riptide), overall my dice wasn't too bad. I made 2 important, long-distance charges, my D-lord came back twice and my immortals survived a ton of firepower to survive and win me the game in the end. And while my opponent's dice has mostly been good, he did have a couple of rolls that helped me out - his firewarriors passing morale with Insane Courage and, of course, his roll for the endgame.
For my MVP of the game, I'd probably give it to my immortals. They survived 36 TL S5 shots to give me the win (1 tau unit shot at and took out my lone nob) and I believe 1 or 2 devilfish burst cannons as well. Otherwise, it would have been a crushing victory for the Tau.
I think he needs to drop a Devilfish and the Disruption Pod Upgrades on his other two to bolster the remaining Firewarrior Squad to two squads of 6 or one squad of 6 and a base Kroot Squad. The pick up another Jetbike Squad and give his Farseer a Bike.
A bike for his Farseer alone bring enough contesting ability to win him games. Not to mention what another two scoring units would do for him.
There is another threat that his list needs to address and that is wraithknight Eldar builds.
Other than that, he's got the firepower. He just needs to shore up on his scoring.
If, it was me, I'd probably drop 1 devilfish + fire warriors, reduce the FW to min-size units, add 2 units of kroots and another unit of jetbikes (2 total). I'd also give his farseer a jetbike. Finally, I'd give 1 unit of broadsides railguns instead and make that a 3-man unit with some shield drones. Either that or also drop 1 unit of broadsides and go with a unit of 3 brightlance war walkers or a wraithknight of his own. Just an idea.
Naw wrote: I think your crons did more than your orks. Had that flank failed..
From my own experience playing against Tau gunlines, they seem to be afraid of moving, ie. playing for objectives. They'll rather concentrate on tabling you.
Would be fun watching your fast army vs a Tau suit/tide army.
Necrons are so versatile that they can work great with almost any army. In this case, they complement my orks well with another fast and durable threat.
Yeah, most Tau players are just too used to playing static Tau. However, I can tell you that a great Tau player will be more willing to mobilize his Tau, whether he is playing static or mobile Tau. They just don't get pigeonholed into playing a particular style and can adjust their tactics as needed by the situation (and more importantly, they recognize when they should do this).
I think if I play against Adam's Tau next time, I'm going to bring my NecrOrks. Let's see how he deals with 18 wraiths, 2 D-lords and a large nob biker deathstar.
Sarouan wrote: I would like to thank you for your reports, they are really well made and interesting to read from a "gamer" point of view - even those who are not native english speakers like myself.
I still think that it is your necrons that made you win the battle more than the orks. It's quite sad to see "necrons + whatever else" bring so much to the primary detachment, but well...that's how the game is for now.
Still, you played that game really clever and your victory was not stolen, from my point of view. Playing the scenario is always rewarding!
Thanks.
It was a team effort to kill off his troops, but my crons definitely did play a big role in this game. My D-lord getting up twice and the immortals surviving enemy fire at the end really sealed the deal. Necrons are still so strong in this edition. I think they are up there along with Tau and Eldar as the 3 top armies currently.
I think the only reason I beat my opponent in this game was because I was slightly more focused on the mission than my opponent. That just goes to show - never give up as long as there's still a chance and always focus on the mission.
Wow. He just got greedy there and wanted to table you! Sometimes when the blowout is right there you give up taking the sure thing objective victory. I completely agree that the skimmers should have led your bikers on a chase through difficult terrain away from the main firebase. And not turboing the jetbikes into the gretchin was...weird.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Well I don't think the battle company would do much to bolster the ranks of my eldar army so no.
Nonsense. The Battle Company box is perfect for filling out your ranks of aspect warriors with a large contingent from the Screaming Baldies shrine.
2013/11/23 16:29:22
Subject: 2K Jy2's Da Rushmore Orkcrons vs Spam Adam's Triptide Taudar (Completed)
Silverthorne wrote: Wow. He just got greedy there and wanted to table you! Sometimes when the blowout is right there you give up taking the sure thing objective victory. I completely agree that the skimmers should have led your bikers on a chase through difficult terrain away from the main firebase. And not turboing the jetbikes into the gretchin was...weird.
Sometimes, it just takes losing a game like this to learn a valuable lesson.
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