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Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






It ridiculous that people think "Gun control" auto means "Take all guns"

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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

But that is something that is impossible to enforce.


You can't make people keep guns in gun safes.

Gun safes also totally destroy your ability to protect yourself from people breaking into your home, not exactly easy access.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Not really. It's no trouble at all to, say, sleep with a gun within arms reach, and then simply put it in a safe when you go to work.

The point of a safe isn't to keep things away from YOU. The point of a safe is to keep things away other people that aren't you. So if you're home, scratching your nuts, there's nothing wrong with having a gun laying around, sure. The point is to not have a gun laying around when you're gone and your kids are at home or your mentally ill clinically depressed brother is at home.
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 Grey Templar wrote:

Gun safes also totally destroy your ability to protect yourself from people breaking into your home, not exactly easy access.


How many times has a person broken into your home?

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 Grey Templar wrote:

Gun safes also totally destroy your ability to protect yourself from people breaking into your home


That statement is so stupid it hurts. When was the last time you looked at a gun safe, 1987?
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






 Grey Templar wrote:
But that is something that is impossible to enforce.


You can't make people keep guns in gun safes.

Gun safes also totally destroy your ability to protect yourself from people breaking into your home, not exactly easy access.


thats the law up here, and yes, it did destroy the ability to protect yourself.

we just had a case where a totally innocent man was charged by the government, because he used his .22lr revolver, WHICH WAS LOCKED IN A SAFE, to fire at a group of people who were FIREBOMBING HIS HOUSE, and now this innocent man is in trouble, because the court has charged him with a federal offense of"unsafe storage" of his gun, because the court asserts there is no way he could have stored his unloaded revolver in the safe, and gotten it out/loaded in time to stop the attackers from burning down his house.

we got these messed up laws, because we negotiated and compromised with the gun grabbers in the 90's, and believed them when they touted things such as "reasonable gun control" "we dont want to take your guns, we just want common sense laws"

and now,

we STILL cannot enforce gun prohibitions, the new laws have had 0 impact on crime, except to make paper criminals of lawful gun owners who miss a peice of paper work (you now must PRE ARRANGE every trip to the range, and get written permission from the government for each trip)

you need several licenses up here, training, several references, your wifes permission, even your EX spouses permission, and at ANY time someone can phone the CFO hotline and report you, resulting in either a polite phone call to take all your guns away, or a not so polite boot in the door.

over half of all pistols were banned, lots of rifles too (some are just .22 lr's as well, super dangerous, must be prohibited) no more mags with more then 5 rounds for rifles, the right to carry a pistol in the wilderness, let alone for self defense, was taken away.



yet STILL whenever a criminal is negligent with their ILLEGAL firearm, either through criminal activity, or leaving a gun around for a kid to pick up, they call to ban and restrict even more the legal gun owners.


when lawful gun owners fought against registration, because it leads to confiscation, we were shouted down, ignored, insulted, and demonized. We were flatly promised no confiscation would occur.

when the registry was then used to confiscate things... well, goes to show how good a promise from someone taking away your rights is.

not to mention that when they made the gun registry, it was hacked, and made a great shopping list for criminals. Two billion dollars later, we get rid of it, and its proven to have had no positive effect, and is partly responsible for the deaths of two police officers, who had the registry tell them houses were "gun free" because no lawful owners registered their guns there, yet somehow the crooks still had guns and the officers were shot though the door.

and still, we hear the same old cry that canada needs to enact "common sense" gun control, and have liberals running on campaigns where one of the election promises is to outright BAN them.

It never stops,

every anti gun law made just leads to the next anti gun law, and the next, and the next, and the goal is a complete ban, and saying they just want "reasonable" gun control is a lie.

Otherwise the antis would have stopped bugging canada back in the 90's, when they got their way with everything.

suprise suprise, its still not enough...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/08 19:04:28


 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Are you going to provide evidence, or rant?

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 dogma wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:
It seems like a lot of people still think that interactive mediums are only meant for entertainment, and not artistic merits.


So very much agreed.

Relapse wrote:

True, that could be one way of looking at it, but I have seen that type explanation more than once over the years by exploiters of tragedies.


Do you think the creator of the game is making money off of this?


I honestly don't know. In my mind, I think publicity was his main goal. I don't often agree with the gun control lobby, but in this instance about the game being a travesty I do, especially since this game is adding to the pain the families of those slain are feeling.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/08 19:41:57


 
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






 dogma wrote:
Are you going to provide evidence, or rant?


are you going to use google yourself instead of being pedantic and passive aggressive with "citation required" type remarks again?

why not just shout "liar liar pants of fire" at the top of your voice, that has the same effect, and at least then you are being honest with yourself in what "debate" tactic you are using

canadian gun laws are out in the open, as as I have said them, every time I do your google work for you, you then move the goal posts and just keep on trolling.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/F-11.6/page-1.html#docCont

has all the various "common sense" laws that I outlined above, including 5 rnd mag limits, you needing WRITTEN permission to take guns to the range, and so on and on...

the guy who was charged, with a federal crime, for being able to get his gun out of a locked safe and load it fast enough to actually save his life,

is here http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/04/ian-thomson-case-firebombers-left-ontario-homeowner-no-choice-but-to-arm-himself-with-gun and here http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/04/protecting-your-home-family-a-risky-move-in-canada

his name is Ian Thompson, pic and excerpt below

I wasn’t surprised ... I knew as soon as I used a firearm to protect my life that charges would be laid,” he said. “The Crown seemed to have an agenda to make an example of me and to put the gear into every firearms owner in Canada that you’re not allowed to defend your life in circumstances like I faced.”



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/12/08 20:03:49


 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






IF you are going to use Slippery Slope and other fallacies I dont think it is worth listening to you

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Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Relapse wrote:

I honestly don't know. In my mind, I think publicity was his main goal.


Publicity for himself, or for an amorphous cause?

Relapse wrote:

I don't often agree with the gun control lobby, but in this instance about the game being a travesty I do, especially since this game is adding to the pain the families of those slain are feeling.


Did you play the game?

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The sound in the game, the way he walks and everything, it makes you......feel wrong. I hate pressing every button TBH. IT is sickening. This is not a game.


Or maybe games have evolved to be something a lot more than what they were several years ago.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 dogma wrote:
Relapse wrote:

I honestly don't know. In my mind, I think publicity was his main goal.


Publicity for himself, or for an amorphous cause?

Relapse wrote:

I don't often agree with the gun control lobby, but in this instance about the game being a travesty I do, especially since this game is adding to the pain the families of those slain are feeling.


Did you play the game?


If you want to get right down to it, publicity for himself appears to be the goal, despite what he says. Nope, don't care to play the game anymore than I care to view pornography or use drugs. In this case, what I have read about the game here and elsewhere as well as it's negative impact on the relatives of the murder victims is enough for me.
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






 hotsauceman1 wrote:
IF you are going to use Slippery Slope and other fallacies I dont think it is worth listening to you


ah moving the goal posts, what an expected trope!


by your definition, I am not allowed to use the past actions of the anti gun lobby, to predict the future actions of the anti gun lobby...

nor am I allowed to use factual references where they have in fact used the "slippery slope" or "boil a frog in water slowly" tactics to enact one law after another,

so basically, when talking about anti gun lobbyists changing gun laws, I am not allowed to talk about how they have actually changed gun laws.







 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 easysauce wrote:

why not just shout "liar liar pants of fire" at the top of your voice, that has the same effect, and at least then you are being honest with yourself in what "debate" tactic you are using


I did not call you a liar, I merely asked you for evidence. Evidence that you provided...after gnashing of teeth.


Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Now if we could just get people to capitalize and use proper grammar I might be able to read their posts without getting a headache...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 easysauce wrote:

the guy who was charged, with a federal crime, for being able to get his gun out of a locked safe and load it fast enough to actually save his life,

is here http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/04/ian-thomson-case-firebombers-left-ontario-homeowner-no-choice-but-to-arm-himself-with-gun


So if we go by your post and the link you provided here, you are actually lying...

Because what he was actually charged for " The cops, however, charged Thomson for improper storage of a firearm because he set the gun down on a table as he waited for the authorities to arrive."

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/08 21:07:49


 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Relapse wrote:
Nope, don't care to play the game anymore than I care to view pornography or use drugs. In this case, what I have read about the game here and elsewhere as well as it's negative impact on the relatives of the murder victims is enough for me.


So you know absolutely nothing about which you are speaking?

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 Grey Templar wrote:
But that is something that is impossible to enforce.


You can't make people keep guns in gun safes.

Gun safes also totally destroy your ability to protect yourself from people breaking into your home, not exactly easy access.


The rest of the civilised world outside the USA has made people keep guns in gun safes.

Why can't the USA?

2nd Amendment.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






 d-usa wrote:
Now if we could just get people to capitalize and use proper grammar I might be able to read their posts without getting a headache...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 easysauce wrote:

the guy who was charged, with a federal crime, for being able to get his gun out of a locked safe and load it fast enough to actually save his life,

is here http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/04/ian-thomson-case-firebombers-left-ontario-homeowner-no-choice-but-to-arm-himself-with-gun


So if we go by your post and the link you provided here, you are actually lying...

Because what he was actually charged for " The cops, however, charged Thomson for improper storage of a firearm because he set the gun down on a table as he waited for the authorities to arrive."


you are the one lying by only quoting some of the charges. did you even read past the first factoid?

the actual quote is
In August 2010, Thomson fired his registered pistol over the heads of attackers before calling police. The cops, however, charged Thomson for improper storage of a firearm because he set the gun down on a table as he waited for the authorities to arrive.

“I’m somewhat relieved, but it still hasn’t sunk in,” the Port Colbourne, Ont., man said late Thursday afternoon.

He had originally faced a count of careless use of a firearm and one count of pointing a firearm



so after they charged him for taking out a gun and pointing it at bad people trying to kill him, and that didnt stick, he was charged for it being out of a safe, which DID stick long enough to put the guy 300,000 grand in debt.

he was charged with improper storage, as I asserted.

D-usa you owe me an apology, dont just read the first few lines of an article until you see what you want to see and go calling me a liar.

why you defend and apologize for the 2nd amendment bashers is beyond me,

why you also think it was the common sense thing to do, to charge this innocent man who just had to defend his life with multiple federal crimes, until one stuck, is also beyond me.

this scenario is common sense, and reasonable to you:

"bad guys try to kill you, you take a gun out of a safe, load it, fire at them, they run away. cops show up, and arrest you, charge you with the pointing of, using of, and storage of, that firarm. the storage charge sticks, you go 300,000grand in debt fighting it, and then its thrown out years later."

yeah... common sense... reasonable.. and business as usual up here

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2013/12/08 21:55:49


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 easysauce wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
Now if we could just get people to capitalize and use proper grammar I might be able to read their posts without getting a headache...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 easysauce wrote:

the guy who was charged, with a federal crime, for being able to get his gun out of a locked safe and load it fast enough to actually save his life,

is here http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/04/ian-thomson-case-firebombers-left-ontario-homeowner-no-choice-but-to-arm-himself-with-gun


So if we go by your post and the link you provided here, you are actually lying...

Because what he was actually charged for " The cops, however, charged Thomson for improper storage of a firearm because he set the gun down on a table as he waited for the authorities to arrive."


as soon as he loaded the fire arm, he was charged, im not lying, you are the only lying by only quoteing some of the charges.

the actual quote is
In August 2010, Thomson fired his registered pistol over the heads of attackers before calling police. The cops, however, charged Thomson for improper storage of a firearm because he set the gun down on a table as he waited for the authorities to arrive.

“I’m somewhat relieved, but it still hasn’t sunk in,” the Port Colbourne, Ont., man said late Thursday afternoon.

He had originally faced a count of careless use of a firearm and one count of pointing a firearm



so after they charged him for taking out a gun and pointing it at bad people trying to kill him, and that didnt stick, he was charged for it being out of a safe, which DID stick long enough to put the guy 300,000 grand in debt.

he was charged with improper storage, as I asserted.

D-usa you owe me an apology, dont just read the first few lines of an article until you see what you want to see and go calling me a liar.


You said he was charged for not storing it properly because the cops said he wouldn't have been able to get it out this fast to shoot it at people if it was locked up. You have presented nothing to back up that statement, so I'm 100% confident in calling that statement a lie. Your own "proof" makes it clear that he was charged for the gun being out on the table after the cops got there, not for "being able to shoot these guys so fast that they decided it wasn't in a safe". Until you provide an actual charge sheet or injunction that states "he stored it improperly or he wouldn't have been able to shoot them at all" I will continue to call your statements a lie.

Them charging him for one count of careless use of a firearm and one count of pointing a firearm has absolutely nothing to do with your claim.

You, however, owe DakkaDakka an apology for refusing to follow the rules and using proper capitalization and grammar on this board.
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

 dogma wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Nope, don't care to play the game anymore than I care to view pornography or use drugs. In this case, what I have read about the game here and elsewhere as well as it's negative impact on the relatives of the murder victims is enough for me.


So you know absolutely nothing about which you are speaking?


Exalted.

Schindler's List, Hotel Rwanda, The Act of Killing, and other such great films are also probably not worth watching either, since they probably have a negative impact on the victims of those events too, and are little more than publicity stunts. Although I guess in the case of those movies, the studios actually made money off of those. So that filth has to be far worse.

Artistically speaking, this is one of the most relevant games I've played in a long time.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/08 22:02:29


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 dogma wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Nope, don't care to play the game anymore than I care to view pornography or use drugs. In this case, what I have read about the game here and elsewhere as well as it's negative impact on the relatives of the murder victims is enough for me.


So you know absolutely nothing about which you are speaking?



Are you suggesting that someone should personaly experience something in order to have an opinion on it?
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

Considering how horribly misinformed you currently are, that might help.
It tends to serve you well to know what you're actually talking about before you get adamant about it.

But hey, being indignant feels good, whether it's justified or not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/08 23:32:22


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Fafnir wrote:
Considering how horribly misinformed you currently are, that might help.
It tends to serve you well to know what you're actually talking about before you get adamant about it.

But hey, being indignant feels good, whether it's justified or not.


Glad to know you think someone should be shooting Heroin or similar activities before they come out against them. That aside, it dosen't take a lot of googling along with other things written about the game to find this gem:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/someone-made-a-video-game-about-sandy-hook-where-you-play-as

I've seen enough with just reading about it to know it repels me.
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

Relapse wrote:

Glad to know you think someone should be shooting Heroin or similar activities before they come out against them.


False dichotomy.

So you agree that we shouldn't make movies or write books about tragedies either, right?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/08 23:41:56


 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






I tld my mother about this and I tld Her I played it and how it disturbed me. Her reaction? Its wrong and im a horrible persone for playing it

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Fafnir wrote:
Relapse wrote:

Glad to know you think someone should be shooting Heroin or similar activities before they come out against them.


False dichotomy.

So you agree that we shouldn't make movies or write books about tragedies either, right?


Not at all false, those were your own words. You raise a good and fair point about movies. Movies like Schindler's list and others of that nature portray the humanity of the victims and give them voice, different from what is portrayed in this game, where it is viewed by many more people than myself as a dehumanizing of the children.
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

Relapse wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:
Relapse wrote:

Glad to know you think someone should be shooting Heroin or similar activities before they come out against them.


False dichotomy.

So you agree that we shouldn't make movies or write books about tragedies either, right?


Not at all false, those were your own words.


You don't have to be Ceasar to understand Ceasar, but you sure as hell better know about Ceasar. Heroin is a chemical that has serious, measurable physical and psychological effects on the body and mind. I don't need to do heroin to know that it has a very good chance of messing me and my body up.

The Slaying of Sandy Hook Elementary is a piece of art (it could even be argued that it's performance art, with the player themselves acting as the performer) that takes its audience to a very dark place, but conveys its meaning incredibly effectively. There's a very big difference between that and hard drugs.

You raise a good and fair point about movies. Movies like Schindler's list and others of that nature portray the humanity of the victims and give them voice, different from what is portrayed in this game, where it is viewed by many more people than myself as a dehumanizing of the children.


If you played the game, you'd definitely be thinking considerably differently. Granted, I could show you a bunch of gore shots of Schindler's list, and if you were to go in knowing nothing what I showed you there, and refused to view it after that point, you could cultivate the exact same opinion.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I tld my mother about this and I tld Her I played it and how it disturbed me. Her reaction? Its wrong and im a horrible persone for playing it


That's really a shame. This is the kind of thing that people should play, and should talk about how terrible it makes them feel (if you don't feel terrible after playing it, there might actually be something wrong with you).
That said, I'm going to assume your mother is of the same mindset that assumes videogames are all about kill counters and high scores, and would never consider them as an artistic medium.

It doesn't take a genius to understand that art isn't supposed to be about enjoyment or entertainment, nor does it take one to understand that this game is not something meant to be enjoyed, but rather experienced. You gain a whole new appreciation for just how over the edge the person doing the Sandy Hook shootings was, how deranged to the point of being even sub-human they were.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/09 00:03:52


 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





Desperado Corp.

I'm with Fafnir on this one. The moment you refuse to evaluate someone based on some sort of objective or first-person perspective (as opposed to simply evaluating something based on second hand opinions), you forfeit any right to a valid opinion on it.

Having played the game myself, yes it's disgusting. It is an apauling game.

But the message is what is important.

Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
Pacific:First person to Photoshop a GW store into the streets of Kabul wins the thread.
Selym: "Be true to thyself, play Chaos" - Jesus, Daemon Prince of Cegorach.
H.B.M.C: You can't lobotomise someone twice. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




It appears the creator of the Sandy Hook game made the same type of game within a week of the Virginia Tech shootings and offered to take it down if he got paid. He later tried to say he was joking. This guy is a true piece of gak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-Tech_Rampage
   
 
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