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You are basically screwed. Even if you make it into assault, those Blob squads will walk over your Biker Nobz and\or Mega Armor Nobz if he has
outfitted them with power axes and melta bombs.

He is using one of the most powerful armies in the game, against a very old codex. Does he have another army he can use against your Orks?

The list he is using is appropriate for competitive tournaments, but not a friendly\pick-up game.

No joke,
Most deployments allow you to be 24 inches away from the enemy deployment zone.
Piling a mek with kff into a battlewagon and surrounding it with other battlewagons and trucks (without clumping them to close), allows them a cover save against the pie plates. one or two biker units can make the same progress and force the enemy to split their fire, making it less effective.
All the while your dakka unit of guys (cant remember the name bad moons or frebooters?) the long range unit with d3 shots to provide cover fire and possibly pop one or two ofthe pie plate machines.
Moving forward 12 inches in the movement phase and another 6 flat out. gets you well onto the enemy half of the board on turn 1 (close enough that a wild shot from a pie plate COULD hit thier own troops. Turn two Your assaulting out and into the enemy with a waagh. At this point he either will not be able to shoot at you because your in combat or be taking a heavy gamble because stray shots will hit their own units.

thats the bad part about those one trick pony lists, they are easy to tailor for. that makes them powerful in tourneys as you need to tailor for them and other take all comers lists wont be tailored. As your not playing in that setting, your able to tailor for it. after a few games of getting his rear end handed to him like that may force him to start using additional tactics and changing his list up a bit to be more well rounded.

Sounds like my game club, one IG player is all tooled up and by second turn most of my army is pinned or at least half strength.

I would recommend using more LOS blocking terrian. House rules at my club is roll 1d3 for each 2x2 square. when you place terrain put it in the mid-field to block as much tall/large LOS as you can. Heck add an aegis line to make cover. You need more cover, Outflanking and Deep Striking units. Put your footsloggers/trukks in reserve and zoom into midfield on turn 2-4.

You need to think outside the box, just walking into IG sights is suicide.

dont forget skickrot (think thats he outflanker unit that allows you to choose board edge (even thier back).

I would suggest bikers. They dominate IG from my experience. Also for fast attack options use grot bomm launchas. They work wonders against IG and MEQ armies. I once took out a whole CSM unit in one shot.

Yes, bikers are indeed rough on guard. Especially pie plate guard.
trust me on my posts on this. I'm giving you advice on how to beat myself as I am a guard player. I've tried the pie plate spam list. a close combat army curbstomps it. i've been on the receiving end of the tactics I gave you to try. this is how I know it works. it forced me to take more well rounded lists that can cover more options.

" a close combat army curbstomps it. "

BA don't. Been there, done that. You need to qualify that a bit more.

Out Flanking deftcoptas, Look on my opponets face when i pop 3 of his artillery units its priceless

 EVIL INC wrote:
No joke,
Most deployments allow you to be 24 inches away from the enemy deployment zone.
Piling a mek with kff into a battlewagon and surrounding it with other battlewagons and trucks (without clumping them to close), allows them a cover save against the pie plates. one or two biker units can make the same progress and force the enemy to split their fire, making it less effective.
All the while your dakka unit of guys (cant remember the name bad moons or frebooters?) the long range unit with d3 shots to provide cover fire and possibly pop one or two ofthe pie plate machines.
Moving forward 12 inches in the movement phase and another 6 flat out. gets you well onto the enemy half of the board on turn 1 (close enough that a wild shot from a pie plate COULD hit thier own troops. Turn two Your assaulting out and into the enemy with a waagh. At this point he either will not be able to shoot at you because your in combat or be taking a heavy gamble because stray shots will hit their own units.

thats the bad part about those one trick pony lists, they are easy to tailor for. that makes them powerful in tourneys as you need to tailor for them and other take all comers lists wont be tailored. As your not playing in that setting, your able to tailor for it. after a few games of getting his rear end handed to him like that may force him to start using additional tactics and changing his list up a bit to be more well rounded.

Lootas won't kill t7 3+ gunz with 4 wounds besides there are gona be a few crew-guyz in front and if he's playing kreig they're fearless for shooting casualties purposes (welcome to fw model business) - lootas are a waste vs those lists.
Mass barrage will make shotr work of av12 side clustered battlewagons even with a kff - if u're using those - spread.
Just outflanking won't do much cause you can't assault emidiately after outflanking. To make it work you need MASS outflanks with ensurance on reserve rolls and outflanking directions. This combo is gona cost alot and those units are easilly downed with a guard's cheap bauble wrap cause commandos are generally 6+ boyz that cost 10 pts and koptas are 4+ t5 with ld7.

Multipple nob biker spread-out squads might work though.
As we've told before - voidshields + mech rush ftw
Also you can take ig allies with same artillery =)

I play both Mech Orks and Sabre Spam. What a lot of you don't realise is that the IG list has zero tanks. Sabre's and Earth Shaker Gun Batteries are Artillary units so are Toughness 7 vs Shooting attacks and can recieve orders and go to ground behind an Agies line for a 2++ cover save. Even Tau Gunline will have a rough time against this.

I have even now put Coatez into my Sabre list as well since he is now Battle Brothers with Guard he is the perfect guy to lead a blob squad. This teamed up with the Sabre having Skyfire and Interceptor they make short work of anything entering from reserve flyers included so don't bother with any of those tactics you will fail.

Now as an Ork Player also I will say that this list will be weak vs AV14 so Battle Wagons will be your friend the Artillary will be hitting you on side armour though but everything else will be firing at the AV14 Front Armour so keep that pointed forwards at all times.

Close combat will be your friend. Pick a flank and flood it with cheep boyz. In combat his Artillary will be Tougness 3 and die to a light breeze a Squad of Trukk Boyz could droo 1 or 2 Sabre teams in a single charge. Remind him that the Artillary gun can not fire overwatch only his Lasguns then remind him he needs to roll a 6 followed by a 5+ to cause a wound and watch him roll the dice.

Don't be afraid to not shoot turn 1.just move your full 13" the go flatout the extra 7" and assault turn 2 you will be pushing in as fast as possible and you will need to play very aggressively. Now keep in mind that if he is playing his list right he will have a few Vendettas comming in late game for some backfield scoring you will need something to counter this with bw warned.

Allies. Shunting Grey Knights with Incinerators will be a good ally for you as the Grey Knight can be in his face turn 1 Roasting stuff. Get them up quickly a flame on Strength 6 AP4 will drop those crewman quick smart. Finally remember that the crew only have a 5+ Armour save they don't get the 3+ only the gun gets the 3+ so some high Strengrh AP5 or better Weapons can be helpfull.

Good Luck and Happy Hunting.

Orks actually have a great counter to IG artillery.

Sabers and earth shakers can't move after the game starts so they automatically die when tank shocked.

6 boys and 3 manz missles all in truks with rams

Looted rhinos with deff rollas for HS.

Void shield generators to survive an IG alpha strike.

turn 1 advance 18 or 20" with red paint job. Take a turn of IG shooting to the face. Then proceed to squash all his immobile artillery. Also they have to make a lof of ld tests on ld7

Trukks, Snikrot and prayer are your only chance.

I hope a lot of ork players are reading this because there are a great many of us giving excellent ideas to roll over this list.
Almost makes me feel like a traitor helping players learn to kill guard. lol

This is great advice. He is a friendly player but does look to win. I play for fun with going for more of a fluff list that happensto be still growing and still weak against his army. I need to get my hands on some of these new books and find learn about the new options. And keep painting up units.
In the mean time I'll go and play as many others as I can. Anyone happen to live near me?

Dont know. I'm sure, I'm probobly not as i live in BFE.
Dont forget allies. they may help you out some.
In the older fluff orks often worked with guard and bought equipment from them (one clan did anyways, forget the name of it) Using that fluff, you coulget your hands on some guard equipment that may help you out and maybe even some units.
You could have some fun kitbashing/using parts from other ompanies to build some neat looking 'guard" squads that are actually orks and orkify up the tanks.
Heck, I did the reverse of that by using a dakkajet as the base for one of my vendettas. I have human pilot and gunner and for troop capacity, i put handles on the wings that they have to hold onto. For some reason my squads draw straws and the loser gets that one as their transport.

Bad Moonz are the merchants who trade with humans. Blood Axes also have dealings with humans and they learm there tactics from them to become better warriors. Death Skulls like to steal a lot of stuff from Humans so could also fit the bill.

Blood axes are the particuler ones I was thinking of. Thanx.
the Bad moons and deathskulls would account for the equipment/vehicles and the Blood axes would account for the actual kitbashed "troops".

 Ailaros wrote:

Ascalam wrote:All i could really suggest is a LOT of LOS blocking terrain

Well, but he's running artillery... so... this might actually hurt more than it helps.

In any case...

Ascalam wrote:You are basically hosed.

This. Your regular opponent wants to win games. By my guess, that's all he cares about. If he has to reach out to some of the cheesiest units forgeworld makes, and out to allies (twice), and just you wait - superheavies, then it really does look like the only thing that matters to him is that he has the easiest possible list to win games with (that is also, nominally, a guard list).

The only way you can beat a person with this kind of attitude is with this kind of attitude yourself. I'm sure that there are easy-mode win buttons you can put together with the new formation rules, especially if you include forgeworld. No reason you can't ally in a dozen twin-linked lascannons or imhotek, or something.

The only question is if you want to. Do you want to be involved in an escalating arms race of who can abuse an unbalanced game the most? Because if you are, there are ways to do that. If you don't... then there's sort of only one. What you need to do is have opponents with a different attitude towards the game. Yes, this can be the laborious process of finding other people to play with (or even more laborious, making new players to play with), or it can involve having a chat with the person you regularly play with to come to some sort of consensus about what kind of game you want to play.

Otherwise, in this case, the only way to win is not to play... but that's hardly winning either.

I don't think that I have agreed more with a post on Dakka ever. 40k is nowhere near close to being balanced enough for this kind of min maxing, as it is easy for a WAAC player to break the game. I would ask him to change his mentality and play with some house rules, or find someone else to play with.

 Sinji wrote:

Now as an Ork Player also I will say that this list will be weak vs AV14 so Battle Wagons will be your friend the Artillary will be hitting you on side armour though but everything else will be firing at the AV14 Front Armour so keep that pointed forwards at all times.

Don't be afraid to not shoot turn 1.just move your full 13" the go flatout the extra 7" and assault turn 2 you will be pushing in as fast as possible and you will need to play very aggressively. Now keep in mind that if he is playing his list right he will have a few Vendettas comming in late game for some backfield scoring you will need something to counter this with bw warned.

He's got mass barrage - you won't be lucky enough to make all that saves vs mass ordnance barrage. The thing that might actually work is Lotsa spread-out trucks and bikes! I'd generally not suggest mass truck using in regular 6 ed games but that might be an exception cause trucks have almost same chances of surviving an ordnance barrage hit as a battlewagon. Also, biker nobs are doing great against such things, just spread them. So if you tailor against that list there could be:

2 x nob bikers with boss and painboy with reroll [around 1000 pts]
max truckboyz
some commandoes/koptas/zaggy/lobbas on remaining points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
here's what i'm talking about:



So as you see it's a fully non-fw list that, i'm sure, is capable of beating face to u'r enemy with his current build
It can even be called to be an old-school all-comer speed freaks list cept for lobbas.

Pray for the first turn and/or nightfight - you have same chances as he does for getting it, if no first turn and no nightfight - it's gona be much harder to compete.
Here's how i see it might work: spread out as much as possible so that his multiple barrage won't be able to hit many targets. Keep koptas scouting on board and trying to move out of los - must be doable with a 36' move - just don't expose them to mass lazgun fire until the proper time has come. And propa time is gona come the moment u'r nobz or boyz are in charge range.
Lobbas are awesome vs most infantry and they're devastating agains ig. Don't place them too far away - even a 5+ cover is good for them. 48 range, s5 and rerolls to scatter make it possible to snipe out ccs in one turn of shooting. Snipe out sergeants, specialists, commissars or just hit clustered up guards, cause pinning tests! Lobbas are SO good vs guards that i can remember a recent game where a single squad of lobbas killed ccs, sniped out sergeants and hwt-s, pinned vets and stopped 2 chimeras.

U might want to give up on some koptas and give klawz to trucknobz or spend points on zaggy with some stormboyz, maybe snikrot with commandoes, but i'm pretty sure that 3x2 koptas are gona be more helpful for their points cost. I don't think it's worth taking kff mek in such list cause you want to spread out as much as possible. Koptas can be a distraction or a desperate tie-up unit if lucky. U can outflank them if you want.

Just a thought but.... Void Shields from Stronghold Assault?

Yeah man, the voids have come up already. I love them because they give armies like this a chance against armies like that.

I'd be wary about Nob Bikers... too easy to double them out with Manticores. Pretty sure theres some bs to give them ignores cover too nowadays - suddenly your 50-80pt models are dying on 2+ wound 5+ invuln... terrible odds

 Dakkamite wrote:

I'd be wary about Nob Bikers... too easy to double them out with Manticores. Pretty sure theres some bs to give them ignores cover too nowadays - suddenly your 50-80pt models are dying on 2+ wound 5+ invuln... terrible odds

Iirc ig guy is not taking manticores and nothing in that list other than Ignore cover manticores might be frightening for nob bikers. Even so, warboss is t6 and to beat most things it's just enough to have a warboss+painboy or at least a few remaining bikers. I'd take at least 1 squad anywayz. If you don't want them - just take a few more boyz or manz in trucks - it's gona be decent vs that list. Nob bikers are just more tac in general (unless you play vs d-weapons, in this case there's a totally different approach and if you do face titans and stuff - just go voidshielding with mass trucks and Stompa, don't know how u're gona face mellee daemon flying guy though).

 tybg wrote:
Check the new Dred Mob update, Kustom Stompas are no longer Lords of War

Who keeps spreading this nonsense?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

Kustom Stompa is 100% Lord of War.

Lots of good suggestions here

But if you are going to be spending some money I would highly recommend it be toward a stompa as I think its like 115.00?

And points wise its about the same as say 10 biker nobs with a biker WB..the dollar price to buy those bikers and WB on bike would be close to a stompa and likely more by a small bit.

Also get the free pdf dl from Forgeworld for the Dreadmob its got some great additions like The Pain boss that can give a group of spanna boys cybork for 3 pts a model ( and fnp if ya put the painboss with them).Tons of scratchbuilding options

As has been mentioned Zagstruk with his Vulure boys would be a very nice addion,I know im putting him in my new lists due to stronghold and Superheavys.At a full 20 stormboys he will be on the board for at least 2 good turns of krumpin and if used against a Titan his group can easily hold it still for a couple of turns so the Stompa can come in and finish the job.

 Jidmah wrote:

 tybg wrote:
Check the new Dred Mob update, Kustom Stompas are no longer Lords of War

Who keeps spreading this nonsense?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

Kustom Stompa is 100% Lord of War.

Check the Orks Lord of War choices at the bottom
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/Dred_Mob.pdf

. probably an over site, but that does not mean they are not LoW. Only that that specific list does not mention that unit. the other list doesn't mention the mek stompa either.

Ehhh, they gave one list with Ork LoW and then a second list afterwards that would presumably overrule the first.

Prove me wrong... I want to take the Kustom Stompa and use it to stomp face against power lists

Stompas lok like they could be fun. I would remember that the escalation book is one of the optional sets of rules that both players need to agree on.

Even an ordinary Stompa with a bunch of Meks is pretty powerful if it's not against a lot of D. It can alpha strike something like 6 large blasts and is pretty beast at close combat. It also makes your army fearless close to it.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Orks actually have a great counter to IG artillery.

Sabers and earth shakers can't move after the game starts so they automatically die when tank shocked.

6 boys and 3 manz missles all in truks with rams

Looted rhinos with deff rollas for HS.

Void shield generators to survive an IG alpha strike.

turn 1 advance 18 or 20" with red paint job. Take a turn of IG shooting to the face. Then proceed to squash all his immobile artillery. Also they have to make a lof of ld tests on ld7

well this looks promising, had a ork pull this on my CSM, fast trucks had them all in cc by turn 2 so drakes couldn't flame them without getting my units. realy pissed me off so he got a handshake for rendering my prime infantry killer completely redundant