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First off thanks for looking and any help.
I don't have many opponents in my area so I mostly play against one IG player. He runs the forgeworld artillery list with earthshakers, madusas, and sometimes the quad guns, all behind an agies line, or on top of the sky shield. supporting that he uses inquisitors and rune priests with prescience for the guns. in front are blob squads and some grey hunters. and usually in ruins are some sabor.platforms with las cannons. The higher the points up we go, the more nasty little tricks he has like vendettas. We haven't been using super heavies since he has four he can field, and I none.

I run a ork mostly mounted up /evil suns list. battle wagons, trucks if need points, couple of dakka jets, burnas, some fw units like big traks. But no matter what I can't crack through. If I get a unit to him in assault they destroy him but are too small by than to survive.

Does anyone have any suggestions for this problem of mine?
thank you

Have you tried using bike-heavy lists? Seems to me like that's your best bet against a list like that.

You are basically hosed.

His list is the 'i bomb you off the board, from behind a nice safe wall' IG list.

All i could really suggest is a LOT of LOS blocking terrain, which he won't agree to , and luck.

Orks simply don't have the firepower to take that list at range, and will have a very hard time getting close enough to do anything worthwhile.

KFF meks EVERYWHERE may help a little against some of that incoming, but that's an uphill fight. I suspect that your opponent is well aware of this too.

You could try Kommandos perhaps, with burnas, to attempt to sod up his rear-end. Probably wouldn't help much though.

Outflanking Deffkoptas going for side/rear shots on the artillery maybe?

Biker nobs and Lootas, maybe even a Stompa

Flyers are probably an ok bet - immune to artillery fire, but not likely to quickly take down quad guns. Comedy option would be a unit of stormboyz led by zagstruk - danger drop right in and assault 3-4 units at once.

Probably the best conventional options would be a horde of boyz covered with big mek KFFs. I played against that the other day with my IG (admittedly I only have the codex artillery, not the horrible FW stuff) and actually if you use good spacing he can't kill too many 6pt boyz a turn. Keep your meks toward the back, so if he is trying to barrage snipe them at least your front rank is still getting closer.

Alternatively, take several units of warbikes or nob bikers, keep them in reserve if you are going second. Turbo up the field, well spaced out their cover save should stop them taking too many casualties. And against guard artillery, even a few T5 orks will win close combat if they reach him.

Sheesh, that's a dead hard list. I cannot suggest much besides ally in some MCs to soak up fire. But that option is quite expensive.

Ascalam wrote:All i could really suggest is a LOT of LOS blocking terrain

Well, but he's running artillery... so... this might actually hurt more than it helps.

In any case...

Ascalam wrote:You are basically hosed.

This. Your regular opponent wants to win games. By my guess, that's all he cares about. If he has to reach out to some of the cheesiest units forgeworld makes, and out to allies (twice), and just you wait - superheavies, then it really does look like the only thing that matters to him is that he has the easiest possible list to win games with (that is also, nominally, a guard list).

The only way you can beat a person with this kind of attitude is with this kind of attitude yourself. I'm sure that there are easy-mode win buttons you can put together with the new formation rules, especially if you include forgeworld. No reason you can't ally in a dozen twin-linked lascannons or imhotek, or something.

The only question is if you want to. Do you want to be involved in an escalating arms race of who can abuse an unbalanced game the most? Because if you are, there are ways to do that. If you don't... then there's sort of only one. What you need to do is have opponents with a different attitude towards the game. Yes, this can be the laborious process of finding other people to play with (or even more laborious, making new players to play with), or it can involve having a chat with the person you regularly play with to come to some sort of consensus about what kind of game you want to play.

Otherwise, in this case, the only way to win is not to play... but that's hardly winning either.

Welcome to your worst possible matchup, combined with an Ork build that simply cannot handle high power matchups like this one (though trukks are awesome and I use them alot myself)

The only way you can beat a person with this kind of attitude is with this kind of attitude yourself.

This. Along with Ailaros' other points. Simply put, you have to make a choice - do you want to play 'competitive' Orks, or do you want to find other opponents to play against? Both choices are legitimate - just because you play 40k doesn't mean you have to go for minmaxed power builds to enjoy yourself.

If you do want to take this guy on, as of like two weeks ago we actually have a chance - stronghold assault and escalation both give Orks a massive boost and bring us up to a sort of middle tier whereas before we were one of the worst armies in the game.

There are two things that make this happen; Void Shields and the Kustom Stompa. The former is a hard counter to both alpha strikes and in particular, pie plate alpha strikes. It creates a bubble protected by an AV 12 forcefield which will absorb any shooting attack originating from outside the field - suddenly the enemy has to break up to 9 layers of AV12 to get to the soft orks inside. This is a massive, massive boon to trukks in particular.

The latter is a *HARD* counter to pie plates and if kitted up properly, can easily survive 20 IG lascannons per turn (not sure how prescience affects this, but its still hard as nails). The Kustom Stompa can throw out 2x D 7" blasts per turn if you want to go that way for just 500pts, and has plenty of non-D options if you don't want to go balls deep powergaming. It has a carry capacity of 30, and can take multiple seperate squads - so you load her up with Lootas and/or burnas, and take maximum mek options alongside a KFF Mek and perhaps some battlewagons or other 4+ cover gives in front. Now you have a heavily armour, 12 HP behemoth that is immune to vehicle damage rolls, and regens with up to 10x 4+ HP regain rolls per turn.

Without either of these options, seriously, you won't win against IG leafblower. Its one of the worst matchups in the game.

If you need the rules for either option, PM me and I can direct you to an excellent online store for their legal purchase at a great price.

Edit: Grot Bomm Launchas from Forgeworld are also an *amazing* anti IG unit. Can't believe I forgot these. They will seriously crap all over a big guns IG build by essentially giving you your own cheap and expendible, one shot barrage to kill or stun enemy manticores, basilisks etc.

Well said Ailaros, well said sir!

Like everyone else said, it's pretty much your worst match up. A hard counter. Melee is how to break through, but the hardest part (as always) is getting there. I'd outflank some deffcoptas for sure, and then just load up in battlewagons. Also Kannons aren't half bad if you can find some proxy models for them and take like 9.

Zagstrukk with 5 or 6 stormboys can pop a tank the turn they deepstrike in. Then on the IG turn they have to focus some fire power on taking him out or leave him alone and lose another tank the next round and so on.

I play IG pretty often and run an ork trukk list. Spam him with as many vehicles as you can, hope half survive and hope the other half ramshackle in his direction. Load your nobs up with PK's and start shredding those tanks.

What really works vs their infantry and is dirt cheap are wartrakks with the skorcha. No one shoots at them because you have bigger targets on the table and by turn 2 your dropping a STR 5 AP 4 flame template on him eating up a boat load of foot soldiers or heavy weapons teams.

As far as the IG Birds go, good luck. I just ignore them and focus on the troops. Lootas are ok but once he drops a template from a Russ on them chances are there running off the table. Might as well put those points into more Trukks!!!

against this list you basically have to go back to our old tactics.

step one: target saturation and correct application.
you dont need a deathstar to take on IG. YOU are the aggro in this match-up. 15 orks will do very well against 30 guardsmen if they charge. a unit of fifteen charging after a minimum squad of meganobz will do better.
step two: tie up the guns! then charge.
this is the important one. hit the blobs with something tough and fast that can last a few rounds in combat (meganobz in trukk). this way, he has lost a turn of shooting with them to deal with three or four models.

finally, their artillery tanks are targets of opportunity. if they aim at boyz, they have the option of taking out 60 points in a turn.
sounds less scary than 10 orks, right?
basically, kill 'em if you can but make his troops and heavy weapon squads a priority.

also, wartrack scorchas are pretty boss.

thank you for all the advice. it's been getting annoying doing so bad but I think start turning the tables on him. Fortunately he does win with grace and has tried to help out by lending me his fw books to try to find other good units to use against him.


Secondary quick question: what book has the best stompa rules? or are they all the same?

IA8 for the Kustom Stompa

oh god... welcome to my world, I hate the cheapo forge world artillary too... 75 pts for something that costs 125 pts in the normal IG codex... great way to sell FW models.

anyway,

heres what works against it if you know you come against it a lot

1. as mentioned, bikers do well

2.kommandos do well at gettng really close through outflank (snikrot can wreck artillary when they dont have counter charge CC units near by, and the artillary is too close to hit him effectively, and the las guns wont chew through a whole squad)
the nice thing about snikrot in this scenario, is that you can also through your 2 HQ's in with him, and pop up on any table edge you want when you come in, with your enemy only getting one turn to shoot you before combat instead of two or three)

3. deff coptas would do ok for getting accross the table fast and winning a quick combat

A Void Shield generator costs nothing to make (well depending what you build it of) and makes your Trukks not suck.

Kustom stompa with 2 big meks + 3 burna/loota squads with maxed meks is probably the cheesiest unit the orks can take. Don't forget Grot Oilers. The Aquila Macro-Cannon isn't bad either IMO, possibly the Vortex missiles are better against this stuff.

You could also ally in something with really good anti-tank.

Meck with KFF in a battlewagon with a bunch of guys, a bunch of other trucks and stuff full of guys., a biker squad or two and the dakka squad sitting in back with maybe a dakkajet or bomma and your set.
He will only get a turn, maybe two depending on who goes first to shoot at you (in which case, you will make more than enough of your cover saves), Then you are on and in amongst them where even firing at you with his artillery is as dangerous to you as it is to him and by turn 4, he should be tabled.

....Now I understand why people hate forge world.

Check the new Dred Mob update, Kustom Stompas are no longer Lords of War

Grab a glove and a pistol, slap him with the glove (not the pistol) and challenge him to a duel. Keep it civil. Make sure you kill him before he kills you. Find a better more enjoyable player.

Or ask him to change his list around.

Or refuse to play until he makes a list that you can actually take on.

Its one of those people you will never look back on and enjoy playing with, especially when you find other players and discover not many people play like him thankfully.

I feel for ya dude. :(

At least he has the right attitude though. ish

CC them. 225 points of earth shakers have 24 t7 wounds, or the cc durability of 12 guardsmen without a sergeant. If 6 boys survive their truk being shot up that should be enough to break the artillery and run them down. Speed freaks can be a huge problem for artillery heavy guard, especially if they go 1st.

I think orks are going to a be a huge problem for IG when they get their new codex.

The list is actually fairly weak, as said earlier, you should have no problem curbstomping him off the table by turn 4..
send him here and we can coach him to help him make an effective list.

LOL. So is this IG list weak or is the Ork player hosed? These sentiments can't both be true.

Look at the list they provided, It is weak. The ork player only needs to change his tactics to table the guard player by turn 4. several examples of ways have been provided.

 easysauce wrote:
oh god... welcome to my world, I hate the cheapo forge world artillary too... 75 pts for something that costs 125 pts in the normal IG codex... great way to sell FW models.

Actually, the real problem is the 6th edition artillery rules. 75 point earthshakers made sense in 5th where they were a fragile and absolutely immobile (including not being able to pivot to face new targets) version of the Basilisk that you'd really only take in themed DKoK-style lists. But then the unbelievable idiocy of making whole artillery units, including the cheap meatshield gunners, count as T7, on top of turning them into non-vehicle units and giving them 360* firing arcs turned a mediocre unit into a powerful one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EVIL INC wrote:
Look at the list they provided, It is weak. The ork player only needs to change his tactics to table the guard player by turn 4. several examples of ways have been provided.

This is a joke, right?

 EVIL INC wrote:
Look at the list they provided, It is weak. The ork player only needs to change his tactics to table the guard player by turn 4. several examples of ways have been provided.

9 basilisk shots with 108 T7 wounds for 675 points is total weak sauce.

Twin linking them all with 2 inquisitors and a rune priest for 185 points is pathetic.

Spending another 18 points on servo skulls so the pie plates only scatter d6" is too expensive.

TL LC sabers at 52 points for 4 T7 wounds doesn't synergize well with the rest of the list.

I don't see how anybody can be having problems with that list.

Some of you guyz might not know that those ig 75 pts artillery is actually not a vehicle but an artillery t7 piece (with somehow 4 wounds iirc) which is basically unkillable from range espetially by orkses. They were not designed for 6 ed arti rules ion the first place. So the only possible way left is assault. Here are some ideas on possible variants:

1. U'r opponent is obviously a cheezemonger so you might want to outcheeze him. Use new fancy voidshields compined with a good old truckrush as Dakkamite suggests (i think the only thing he's probably wrong is that wagonz give 4+ cover - based on rulebook it's 5+ from any of u'r units...but we're not talking bout wagonz now). So u'll have a full turn free of his pie-plate spam and with truck's speed u'll be in charge range for a next turn charge on his bauble-wrapping guards and quad-gun shooting commi or inquisitor (i bet he has those). Basically - that's the easiest for you and toughest for him option. Those void shields are a huge boost to an ork's trucksh. Don't forget to bring a few manz along the way. If he focuses on an anti-horde counter-assault he'll be short of ap2 and man'z will be a great spearhead. Besides, u'll have lotsa spare points with that truck-boyz.
2. If u're not in for cheeze and wana do it an old less cheezy way: The only thing i can think off is a bunch of grot lobbas to clear up a bauble-wrap and zaggy boyz trying to fit in a gasp cleared off by lobbas and charging killing arti crew and wipe them - preferably a few squads simultaniously. Also kopta outflankers and kommando squads will be useful for that. Use comm relayz and ig allied comm squad with astropath to ensure turn 2 mass outflanking. But be warned: you got little chances vs him. I'd say if zaggy fails with scatter and mishap - it's a guaranteed loss. If he doesn't manage to wipe out enough people as soom as he arrives - it's a guaranteed loss. So it's less than 20% that you suckseed cause all that approach is based on reserves, outflanks and zaggy boyz - and all of those things are less than reliable. Besides, you somehow need to endure 1-st turn.

Either way you need 1-st turn.

If i were u, i'd rather find a less competitive opponent cause of wh is a hobby and not sport. It's supposed to be fun and not annoying. Or probably you could suggest him to play his arti on increased cost basis - i'd go for 150 pts per piece with crew. So that it's more ballanced. If you want a revenge on that pathetic cheezemonger - use voidshields a few times and than suggest a more friendly approach.

Da krimson barun wrote:
....Now I understand why people hate forge world.

So the Rev titan is legit but the Kustom Stompa is hate-worthy?

Not that it matters anymore since they've swapped it for the Big Mek Stompa, whatever the heck that is

I feel like all these people insulting the OP's opponent haven't been reading the comments at all.

obmas wrote:
thank you for all the advice. it's been getting annoying doing so bad but I think start turning the tables on him. Fortunately he does win with grace and has tried to help out by lending me his fw books to try to find other good units to use against him.


Secondary quick question: what book has the best stompa rules? or are they all the same?

As you can see above. Someone who is helping his opponent out isn't TFG.

So voidshields or going less competitive.

 Dakkamite wrote:

Da krimson barun wrote:
....Now I understand why people hate forge world.

So the Rev titan is legit but the Kustom Stompa is hate-worthy?

Not that it matters anymore since they've swapped it for the Big Mek Stompa, whatever the heck that is

I nevers aid anything about the kustom stompa.I was talking about the artillery.