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Space Marine mechanized. Its literally the only core SM archetype I can run and I'm so, pardon I mean, I was so sick of being smashed with it that I haven't dusted off my Marines for months. Its completely unplayable, painful at worst.

My general tactic was a Rhino Rush with Tacticals and usually Devastators+/- Terminators and a Drop Pod squad for support, except the problem is that 30-50 Tactical Marines in your face isn't a scary proposition for 99% of what I face. They're ineffective, trashy, you sign over First Blood, they're crap at their primary role of snatching objectives and they're fodder for shooting armies where they die about as easily as Guardsmen.

I could just switch to Drop Pods or Bikes but honestly the experience has been so soul crushing that I don't care anymore and I have no passion for spending money on either.

I also occasionally run Deathwing and an Ork Horde, but GW decided to brutally nerf both until they were unplayable too.

I put together an army for turn 1 scatterless deep striking
primary GK
HQ inquisitor in termie armor w psycannon and psyker
mrodrak with X5ghost knights

Some troops for cheep

Inquisitor atachment
Inquisitor w/ termie armor and psycannon

Dark Angels detachment
Belial
10X termies w/ 2 assault cannons

barebones 5man tac squad

 Zaki66 wrote:
Necron Flayed Ones. Yes, I have gone that far.

Big mob of 10-20 Infiltrating, Outflanking or (the Silent King forgive) Deep Striking has its uses and most definitely does its DISTRACTION role well. While not exactly too threatening, positioning them to be near heavy weapons/death star/anything dangerous will keep units nearby occupied for at least a turn.

The best part is in one of those rare games where they get to survive and charge. Sure I2 sucks but rest of the stats are pretty much MEQ and 4 attacks a piece matches Khorne Berserkers. They also make a nice tarpit due to RP as a bonus.

Actually I find that playing Dark Harvest (where they are troops, and got a nice option for upgrade to make their charge actually deal damage), then infiltrating HUGE numbers of them to serve as a screen for incoming wraithwings and/or tomb stalkers makes a pretty damn sweet assault army.

 ductvader wrote:
Looking for those people who play "unpopular" and un-netlist-y units that they either love or use just to stay off a bandwagon.

What do you like putting in your army despite the comments of how inefficient it is compared to unit X...and how do you make it work for your games?



Personally, I have a lot of fun and find GK Purgators to be fairly effective.

I throw 5 in a Rhino with 2 Incinerators, 2 Psycannons, and a Teleport Homer. (Maybe a Halberd as Purgators get them for 3 pts.)

It's a cheap little Swiss Army Knife that can do a lot and offers the army some increased options for tactics. It's exceptionally great for moving flat out and popping smoke first turn to get a great spot for the homer and to be in position for the weapons to handle whatever target you choose.

Couldn't have posted a more perfect thread title.

Check this out if you're interested inthat sort of thing:
http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013_09_01_archive.html


I'm pretty sure if you browse, you will get orthodox and not so orthodox ideas.

 Blackskull wrote:
land speeder vengeance, the bad landspeeder heavy support no one likes, its a deep striking vindicator with its large blast mode nuff said, using librarians it came in, i gave it twin linked and ignoring cover, I destroyed calgars entire honour guard leaving calgar in the middle wandering what the heck just happened to his squad. calgar later died to bolter fire and the burst plasma mode while trying to catch a the landspeeder that started it all

I plan to add one of these (the Land Speeder Vengeance) to my BA + DA list. Having it hang out in Power Field Generator range would make it a "smidge" more survivable, though I'd still expect it to die the turn my enemy decides to kill it. Either way, with precience (and potentially the ignores cover power should I roll it), it would appear to be a highly useful scalpel for things like wounding/killing models/units that would otherwise be a pain in the neck (Riptides and their like).

I feel people are far too quick to dismiss units such as this one. The point cost is high, but so is the damage output. 4 S6 rending shots and 3 plasma rounds (or 1 large blast plasma shot) is pretty devastating to a high priority target, and with precience, the likely-hood of gets hot! being a problem is extremely low. I DO expect it to be destroyed the following turn (or shortly thereafter) but with a PFG potentially nearby, your opponent may have to throw more resources at it than he'd like. Overall a win/win as long as you make sure to do your damage before it's a target.

 Voidwraith wrote:

 Blackskull wrote:
land speeder vengeance, the bad landspeeder heavy support no one likes, its a deep striking vindicator with its large blast mode nuff said, using librarians it came in, i gave it twin linked and ignoring cover, I destroyed calgars entire honour guard leaving calgar in the middle wandering what the heck just happened to his squad. calgar later died to bolter fire and the burst plasma mode while trying to catch a the landspeeder that started it all

I plan to add one of these (the Land Speeder Vengeance) to my BA + DA list. Having it hang out in Power Field Generator range would make it a "smidge" more survivable, though I'd still expect it to die the turn my enemy decides to kill it. Either way, with precience (and potentially the ignores cover power should I roll it), it would appear to be a highly useful scalpel for things like wounding/killing models/units that would otherwise be a pain in the neck (Riptides and their like).

I feel people are far too quick to dismiss units such as this one. The point cost is high, but so is the damage output. 4 S6 rending shots and 3 plasma rounds (or 1 large blast plasma shot) is pretty devastating to a high priority target, and with precience, the likely-hood of gets hot! being a problem is extremely low. I DO expect it to be destroyed the following turn (or shortly thereafter) but with a PFG potentially nearby, your opponent may have to throw more resources at it than he'd like. Overall a win/win as long as you make sure to do your damage before it's a target.

Except it would literally be 15 points cheaper to just take a Leman Russ Executioner which is better in every way which is to be genuinely cared about and doesn't have to worry about being killed by negligible AT. And for your trouble, you get access to Vendettas, AA which doesn't suck.

The problem is that independently its only merit is the fact it puts out an AP2 pie plate, which isn't by any stretch mandatory, and it suffers huge drawbacks- terrible range, paper armour, takes up a heavy support slot.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

Except it would literally be 15 points cheaper to just take a Leman Russ Executioner which is better in every way which is to be genuinely cared about and doesn't have to worry about being killed by negligible AT. And for your trouble, you get access to Vendettas, AA which doesn't suck.

The problem is that independently its only merit is the fact it puts out an AP2 pie plate, which isn't by any stretch mandatory, and it suffers huge drawbacks- terrible range, paper armour, takes up a heavy support slot.

Considering the Land Speeder Vengeance is widely considered to be awful, I'm sure we could find all kinds of units one would rather field, but your overly critical review of what it can accomplish on the battlefield is a bit short-sighted. I'm taking it because I already field DA as an ally and I'm looking for a sure fire way to deliver multiple wounds to otherwise annoying targets like Riptides. With it's speed and high volume of armor ignoring attacks, it pairs well with the strat that I've already got going on, which is aggressively moving forward with elite units that are equally uncomfortable for my opponent to have near him. Considering it'll be within range of a Power Field Generator, it's totally possible that the LSV won't even be the highest priority target for my opponent to get rid of

The Leman Russ Executioner is a nice tank, though actually MORE expensive than the LSV. It's also outclassed by the LSV on what it can hope to accomplish against a single model (such as a Riptide) unless you plan to upgrade it with the Lascannon and Plasma Sponsons, which put it WAY over what the LSV would cost ya. This isn't to down the Leman Russ...it's a fine vehicle...I just wanted to point out how grossly inaccurate your post turned out to be.

 Voidwraith wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

Except it would literally be 15 points cheaper to just take a Leman Russ Executioner which is better in every way which is to be genuinely cared about and doesn't have to worry about being killed by negligible AT. And for your trouble, you get access to Vendettas, AA which doesn't suck.

The problem is that independently its only merit is the fact it puts out an AP2 pie plate, which isn't by any stretch mandatory, and it suffers huge drawbacks- terrible range, paper armour, takes up a heavy support slot.

Considering the Land Speeder Vengeance is widely considered to be awful, I'm sure we could find all kinds of units one would rather field, but your overly critical review of what it can accomplish on the battlefield is a bit short-sighted. I'm taking it because I already field DA as an ally and I'm looking for a sure fire way to deliver multiple wounds to otherwise annoying targets like Riptides.

There are far, far better options than the LSV in your own Codex, before even considering the LRE. Lascannon Devs/Tri-Las Predators, RW Bikes of either flavour (Knight/Standard), for example.

With it's speed and high volume of armor ignoring attacks

3-4 is not high volume.

, it pairs well with the strat that I've already got going on, which is aggressively moving forward with elite units that are equally uncomfortable for my opponent to have near him.

Psychological games are not a reliable strategy in a competitive environment, and it is a far safer method to have units that can do the same thing, out of the way and out of potential danger, behind a nice AV14 armour value.

Considering it'll be within range of a Power Field Generator

Its still going to be easily taken down by the odd Autocannon equivalent, Serpent Shield or Broadside.

, it's totally possible that the LSV won't even be the highest priority target for my opponent to get rid of

Again, don't play this game. You overlook two things : A) It is absurdly easy to kill, even with a 4+ invulnerable, and B) You're literally saying, "look, its not that effective, so this makes it good, because ~target priority~"

The Leman Russ Executioner is a nice tank, though actually MORE expensive than the LSV.

Except you conveniently forget that your Land Speeder Vengeance only functions as A) you want to and B) decently if it has a Librarian babysitting it, which will also require ablative wounds so you don't easily give up VP's. This means the Libby is practically mandatory, which then makes the total cost, before even considering ablative wounds, and taking into account your PFG and assault cannon upgrade: 255 points.

For reference, an LRE with plasma sponsons and a Lascannon is 245. You tell me with a straight face that the LSV is better. I dare you.

It's also outclassed by the LSV on what it can hope to accomplish against a single model (such as a Riptide)

If it even is better at MC tackling at full firepower, which I still doubt, the versatility of the LRE plasma being small blasts and thus being so versatile and effective against all kinds of infantry, while actually being tough enough to survive more than a single turn in which it is a threat (which means its still a far more effective MC tackler for that reason alone, as at least you'll actually fire twice)I think that makes the choice a no brainer.

unless you plan to upgrade it with the Lascannon and Plasma Sponsons, which put it WAY over what the LSV would cost ya.

As I've just pointed out, this is blatantly false.

This isn't to down the Leman Russ...it's a fine vehicle...I just wanted to point out how grossly inaccurate your post turned out to be.

Maybe you just had a spark of negligence but when you say "Oh I'll take a Libby and a PFG and everything will be fine" don't then pretend its free just because its not the unit in question when I call you out on it.

@Mr.Omega: I mean no insult, but I think you may be missing the point. This thread is explicitly about using underdog units and those that are not obviously the best, so pointing out how much objectively better the LRE is is kind of redundant. We all know that it's better, but this thread is for making use of the weaker units, rather than replacing them.

 Paradigm wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 tybg wrote:
I really hate to be that guy, but 5 points for a much, much better gun isn't "dirt cheap?"

Are you saying it is or isn't dirt cheap? I am having a hard time understanding your meaning.

Yeah, I'm a little confused too. Are you saying that a GL is 'much much better' than a lasgun, or that for another 5 points I could have the 'much much better' meltagun?

The way I see it, the standard build for competitive infantry squads is LC and melta, clocking in at 80 points. Compared to that, a squad with a GL is 55 points. That's a difference of 25 points, and when I usually take a minimum 8 PIS, that's at least 200 points saved over the 'competitive' version, which can get me most of another 3 squads, a Russ, or a Vet/Stormtrooper squad.

He is saying that for 5 more points you can get the meltagun. That would bring your squad in at 60 points which is still dirt cheap, and the meltagun has the potential to kill the most threatening things in the game.

I'm not going to go into a Power-Point presentation on how Mr.Omega is being a D-bag with his NEED to down what I've already said was a glass cannon scalpel unit that would get blown to bits shortly after it did it's damage (in a topic called "Underdog Tactics" no less where we're talking about often overlooked units and their potential uses on the battlefield).

I will instead point out that one should assume that when someone adds an odd unit to their list, they do it for a reason. A reason that makes sense to that person and their play-style. It's also possible that perceived negatives, such as adding a Librarian with a PFG to babysit said odd unit, aren't really an issue at all, as that Librarian with a PFG has already carved out an important role in the persons list and the addition of the odd unit is only going to enhance what's already going on.

It may seem like a foreign concept, but on occasion, even though it flies in the face of overwhelming internet opinion, people decide to play with toys that other people don't play with.

I thought that was what this thread was about.

Oh, and that "versatal" Leman Russ can't even touch a FMC, which I play against ALL THE TIME, without the lascannon upgrade. Whooptie doo....1 lascannon shot from an over 200pt model. The Land Speeder Vengeance, with the prescience help it'd have in this situation, can actually do some damage in my most common match-up.

Mr. Omega....please continue telling me how I should enjoy playing my game.

GorillaWarfare wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 tybg wrote:
I really hate to be that guy, but 5 points for a much, much better gun isn't "dirt cheap?"

Are you saying it is or isn't dirt cheap? I am having a hard time understanding your meaning.

Yeah, I'm a little confused too. Are you saying that a GL is 'much much better' than a lasgun, or that for another 5 points I could have the 'much much better' meltagun?

The way I see it, the standard build for competitive infantry squads is LC and melta, clocking in at 80 points. Compared to that, a squad with a GL is 55 points. That's a difference of 25 points, and when I usually take a minimum 8 PIS, that's at least 200 points saved over the 'competitive' version, which can get me most of another 3 squads, a Russ, or a Vet/Stormtrooper squad.

He is saying that for 5 more points you can get the meltagun. That would bring your squad in at 60 points which is still dirt cheap, and the meltagun has the potential to kill the most threatening things in the game.

That is true, and as I say, I recognise that the best loadout involves melta and LC. However, for several reasons (mostly fluff, it doesn't fit my fluff that expendable grunts get given rare and powerful weapons that could be given to better troops), I'll go with vets for my melta needs. As such, my infantry will use of the GL, and I have found it to be effective, giving me the chance to damage low AV vehicles and to add one 2+ kill for anything not in PA or worse.

 Voidwraith wrote:
I'm not going to go into a Power-Point presentation on how Mr.Omega is being a D-bag with his NEED to down what I've already said was a glass cannon scalpel unit that would get blown to bits shortly after it did it's damage (in a topic called "Underdog Tactics" no less where we're talking about often overlooked units and their potential uses on the battlefield).

I will instead point out that one should assume that when someone adds an odd unit to their list, they do it for a reason. A reason that makes sense to that person and their play-style. It's also possible that perceived negatives, such as adding a Librarian with a PFG to babysit said odd unit, aren't really an issue at all, as that Librarian with a PFG has already carved out an important role in the persons list and the addition of the odd unit is only going to enhance what's already going on.

It may seem like a foreign concept, but on occasion, even though it flies in the face of overwhelming internet opinion, people decide to play with toys that other people don't play with.

I thought that was what this thread was about.

Oh, and that "versatal" Leman Russ can't even touch a FMC, which I play against ALL THE TIME, without the lascannon upgrade. Whooptie doo....1 lascannon shot from an over 200pt model. The Land Speeder Vengeance, with the prescience help it'd have in this situation, can actually do some damage in my most common match-up.

Mr. Omega....please continue telling me how I should enjoy playing my game.

I am not telling you how to play your game or insulting you for playing it how you will. This entire post is an insulting strawman argument. You directly stated:

but your overly critical review of what it can accomplish on the battlefield is a bit short-sighted

I feel people are far too quick to dismiss units such as this one.

I just wanted to point out how grossly inaccurate your post turned out to be.

I take this as evidence of a direct challenge and statement that the LSV is not necessarily an underdog unit, and I sought to explain why it is. In fact, the only point in this post is also a huge strawman in that you are telling me an anti-infantry/MC tank can't kill an FMC (well duh, AA and volume of fire is used to ground it first) makes it less worthwhile.

/rant.

 Mr.Omega wrote:


I take this as evidence of a direct challenge and statement that the LSV is not necessarily an underdog unit, and I sought to explain why it is. In fact, the only point in this post is also a huge strawman in that you are telling me an anti-infantry/MC tank can't kill an FMC (well duh, AA and volume of fire is used to ground it first) makes it less worthwhile.

/rant.

You could take it as a challenge, or you could take it as what it is....a qualifying statement that tells you why I want it in my list. The Leman Russ is only being used as a comparison because you brought it up as a superior unit, which it certainly is when considering it's durability, though not it's versatility.

The fact I called you a D-bag was the only real challenge. I feel secure in my assessment considering I'm not the only one questioning your agenda on this particular topic.

Regardless, I'll make sure to let you know how it performs on the table when I start using it. The results are apparently very important to ya.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:
I'm not going to go into a Power-Point presentation on how Mr.Omega is being a D-bag with his NEED to down what I've already said was a glass cannon scalpel unit that would get blown to bits shortly after it did it's damage (in a topic called "Underdog Tactics" no less where we're talking about often overlooked units and their potential uses on the battlefield).

I will instead point out that one should assume that when someone adds an odd unit to their list, they do it for a reason. A reason that makes sense to that person and their play-style. It's also possible that perceived negatives, such as adding a Librarian with a PFG to babysit said odd unit, aren't really an issue at all, as that Librarian with a PFG has already carved out an important role in the persons list and the addition of the odd unit is only going to enhance what's already going on.

It may seem like a foreign concept, but on occasion, even though it flies in the face of overwhelming internet opinion, people decide to play with toys that other people don't play with.

I thought that was what this thread was about.

Oh, and that "versatal" Leman Russ can't even touch a FMC, which I play against ALL THE TIME, without the lascannon upgrade. Whooptie doo....1 lascannon shot from an over 200pt model. The Land Speeder Vengeance, with the prescience help it'd have in this situation, can actually do some damage in my most common match-up.

Mr. Omega....please continue telling me how I should enjoy playing my game.

I am not telling you how to play your game or insulting you for playing it how you will. This entire post is an insulting strawman argument. You directly stated:

but your overly critical review of what it can accomplish on the battlefield is a bit short-sighted

I feel people are far too quick to dismiss units such as this one.

I just wanted to point out how grossly inaccurate your post turned out to be.

I take this as evidence of a direct challenge and statement that the LSV is not necessarily an underdog unit, and I sought to explain why it is. In fact, the only point in this post is also a huge strawman in that you are telling me an anti-infantry/MC tank can't kill an FMC (well duh, AA and volume of fire is used to ground it first) makes it less worthwhile.

/rant.

Dude, wrong thread. Go away, nobody wants to hear a broken record here. We all just want to share our lesser used units and so on and enjoy learning what others use their creativity fr on the matter.

In short you are dirtying a nice thread

I have Falchions on all my Purifiers that aren't packing Psycannons. Why? Because dual wielding looks badass. I still love them even though I6 would be nice sometimes...

 BladeWalker wrote:
I have Falchions on all my Purifiers that aren't packing Psycannons. Why? Because dual wielding looks badass. I still love them even though I6 would be nice sometimes...

A fun yet totally overcosted unit with Falchions is a 10man GKT squad with 9 Falchions, a Banner, and an Attached Libby with Falchions and Quicksliver. 50 Str 5, AP 3, Init 10 attacks on a charge ... if you can get a charge.

SJ

 Voidwraith wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:


I take this as evidence of a direct challenge and statement that the LSV is not necessarily an underdog unit, and I sought to explain why it is. In fact, the only point in this post is also a huge strawman in that you are telling me an anti-infantry/MC tank can't kill an FMC (well duh, AA and volume of fire is used to ground it first) makes it less worthwhile.

/rant.

You could take it as a challenge, or you could take it as what it is....a qualifying statement that tells you why I want it in my list. The Leman Russ is only being used as a comparison because you brought it up as a superior unit, which it certainly is when considering it's durability, though not it's versatility.

The fact I called you a D-bag was the only real challenge. I feel secure in my assessment considering I'm not the only one questioning your agenda on this particular topic.

Regardless, I'll make sure to let you know how it performs on the table when I start using it. The results are apparently very important to ya.

Girls, girls your both pretty.....

I have lots of fun/ success with mecha/mech Tau.... Tau empire codex with out enclaves or allies

At the very least they will attract some attention XD

How much said unit costs anyway?

Haven't actually tried them, but I am thinking of trying out Tau sniper drones and a... pyrovore

625pts, without Psybolts or Psycannons. 700pts with.

SJ

tau snipers aren't too shabby,i have a unit that I use for makerlights.

1) I field Whirlwind and often despite the Thunderfire Cannon's significant firepower. Whirlwind still earns its points when aimed at large groups or cover huggers.

2) I run my Farseer on foot, and I like it. Bubble-wrapped with Wraithblades using axes for ridiculous survival.

3) I am about to finish assembling my 3 vehicle Vyper squad. Plan is to move where needed while using holo-fields (giving a 4+ cover save). Either they will have two shuriken cannons each for horde killing or bright lances for tank hunting. I might try out a crazy idea of moving Flat Out behind enemy vehicles (might need Star Engines for chance at first turn), use CTM, and fire shuriken cannons (S6) into soft AV10.

I run both Triarch Praetorians and Flayed Ones in my primary Imothek list. A full squad of 10 TPs run with my Res Orb touting DLord to eat a truck load of bullets (more then equivalent points in Wraiths eat, which in addition to their AV 14 contingency is why I take them) and the FOs use their wide variety of deployment options to cram 20 metal bodies right where my opponent doesn't want them.

I would say both units are not only effective, but better then any other option in the Codex for how I use them. It also allows me to keep my FA slots more open the Wraith Wing, allowing me a couple of MSU units of scarabs (in addition to one unit of Wraiths) which helps my target saturation.

I'm a fervent believer that most under valued units are perfect fits in the right lists. The internet has no shortage of myopic view points on the topic, though.

BP & CCW scouts with a sergeant wielding either a pf or pp piled into a LSS in a White Scars list. Launch that puppy straight up field at a fast or scary unit and use it to bog down the unit. The scouts usually can bog them down for a full turn, especially if you get first turn and can park them right in front of the unit so they are too juicy to avoid. Hopefully the combination of the speeder and the scouts knock a couple wounds off the enemy and severely limits my opponent from moving something around.

ok im gonna post another underused unit and I don't want a long blistering argument over it which degenerates into a your mom fight.

land speeder storm with shotgun scouts.

ork players, you like your trukk boyz yeah, why should you not they move quick, shoot stuff, are fairly cheap, and if it gets rough they can leap out and strangle stuff.

space marines meet your truck boyz, essentially they do the same thing but better, scouts can infiltrate and take their speeder with them, storm is open topped so you can do all the shooting jazz the orks can and still leap out and throttle things, plus the storm unlike an ork truck can
mount a decent weapon,
is a speeder so doesn't have to skirt terrain,
has a jink save,
is tiny,
if running iron hands can regain hull points
has a crew that can occasionally hit what they are shooting at

frankly aside from sniper scouts, I don't see why people don't use scouts in this configuration as they are easily the best harassment unit in the space marine codex IMO


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also SCOREING

Hmm, I may have to try that LSS+shotguns combo, although I'd probably stick with bolters and pistols for effectiveness at more than 12". How many of those units do you run?

ShadarLogoth wrote:
I run both Triarch Praetorians and Flayed Ones in my primary Imothek list. A full squad of 10 TPs run with my Res Orb touting DLord to eat a truck load of bullets (more then equivalent points in Wraiths eat, which in addition to their AV 14 contingency is why I take them) and the FOs use their wide variety of deployment options to cram 20 metal bodies right where my opponent doesn't want them.

I would say both units are not only effective, but better then any other option in the Codex for how I use them. It also allows me to keep my FA slots more open the Wraith Wing, allowing me a couple of MSU units of scarabs (in addition to one unit of Wraiths) which helps my target saturation.

I'm a fervent believer that most under valued units are perfect fits in the right lists. The internet has no shortage of myopic view points on the topic, though.

I've been wanting to do this forever (the Triarch Pratorians with a ResOrb D-Lord) but just haven't pulled the trigger on purchasing 2 more boxes of Lychguard/Praetorians (the first two boxes I put together as Lychguard and they've been permanently shelved). The fact that they're Fearless is HUGE in the necron codex, and the fact that they're fast and have access to Preferred Enemy from the D-Lord somewhat makes up for their small amount of attacks. I may eventually try these guys out whenever my focus swings back to my Necrons. Glad to hear someone is having success with them.

I use Asurmen because...well...he is Asurmen. At least in 2k+ games.

I also really enjoy Razorbacks in my IF list, just feels right even though they are usually only marginally useful.

I use the Emperor's Champion to claim the heads of my foe's leaders, and the rest of my army is pretty much Crusader squads on foot (plan on getting some drop pods soon though- dishonourable Tau need to be taught how to fight ).