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Pretty sure it's Vulkan.

It's made pretty clear in the HH series that the only reason Vulkan ever actually lost a physical battle with his brothers is because he didn't want to hurt them and held back.

 j31c3n wrote:
Ferrus Manus killed a C'tan.

No he didn't, lol.

Swarmlord with powers makes them all his bitches....

Anyway, Magnus is the most powerful, both in demonstrated feats of raw fuckery, and he has quite a bit of backing in-universe, from the likes of Lucius, Lorgar, and even implicitly Horus himself. When Lorgar went buck-wild on Horus' ship (to the point of telepathically commanding Horus), Horus deferred to Magnus to stop him, with Magnus telling him to sack up and handle his own gak. Magnus is demonstrably more psychically powerful than Lorgar from the other side of the galaxy.

Though, when you said "duel", did you mean only in terms of martial skill?

If Psychic powers are in, then Magnus. If not, then Angron.

I'd say that Magnus the Red was stronger (or more powerful) than even horus. he could kill with his mind alone (even horus would not have been able to defend himself) from the other side ofthe galaxy in a time when the warp was aswirl with huge storms which would hamper him. His self control and loyalty prevented him from doing such things until he accidentally did it with backwash when he traveled to Terra. Look what he did on accident then. Imagine what he could have done if he had put even half of that power into a surgical strike bust on an individual. even a primarch woulda been burnt to cinders.

I thought the OP was Strongest...not Most martially adept??? Just saying as I think people have gone off down the Psyker rabbit hole...or the Martial prowess one. Physically strong is a toss between the Gorgon, The Lord of Drakes or the Cyclops just saying that's all...

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Anyway, Magnus is the most powerful, both in demonstrated feats of raw fuckery, and he has quite a bit of backing in-universe, from the likes of Lucius, Lorgar, and even implicitly Horus himself. When Lorgar went buck-wild on Horus' ship (to the point of telepathically commanding Horus), Horus deferred to Magnus to stop him, with Magnus telling him to sack up and handle his own gak. Magnus is demonstrably more psychically powerful than Lorgar from the other side of the galaxy.

Though, when you said "duel", did you mean only in terms of martial skill?

As I said in the original post, its a battle of physical and magical strength and endurance.

So yes, magnus can use his magic noodles.

I'm deciding to remove alpharius. How the hell does he have 3 votes?

They are everywhere! They sneak in and so much have they done! They are the Alpha Legio-hragharahara *faints*

Anyways, hrmmm Sanguinus is winning O.o I guess his battle with a greater daemon won some other? Or maybe its just the jokes he can woo ladies and men with his wings and glorious hair!

 changerofways wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Anyway, Magnus is the most powerful, both in demonstrated feats of raw fuckery, and he has quite a bit of backing in-universe, from the likes of Lucius, Lorgar, and even implicitly Horus himself. When Lorgar went buck-wild on Horus' ship (to the point of telepathically commanding Horus), Horus deferred to Magnus to stop him, with Magnus telling him to sack up and handle his own gak. Magnus is demonstrably more psychically powerful than Lorgar from the other side of the galaxy.

Though, when you said "duel", did you mean only in terms of martial skill?

As I said in the original post, its a battle of physical and magical strength and endurance.

So yes, magnus can use his magic noodles.

I'm deciding to remove alpharius. How the hell does he have 3 votes?

LOL, Even if it was only physical strength as in who can lift the heaviest weights, magnus would still win hands down as he can boost hi strength using psychics.
i agree, alpherios and the other bobsy twin should just be removed as they are the weak sisters in all ways but sneakynes and underhandedness. Perhaps being the runts of the litter has something to do with that lol.

As big of a SW fan as I am, I gotta go with magnus. Even though Russ broke him, I think Magnus was the strongest. Horus had Russ kill Magnus for a reason, and I think that was because Horus feared what Magnus was capable of. Magnus could wipe out armies with his mind, open a portal and leap between stars. Dude was pretty boss.

As it stands after reading the abortion that is An Unreemmbered Empire, surely it has to be Vulkan considering that he can't actually be killed? Angron could decapitate him and burn his body, and he would still just get up and be pissed off twenty minutes later. Curze is pretty bad ass on paper considering he seems to have beaten almost everyone up, but a flaming Vulkan gets up swinging everytime that Curze takes him down.

It makes no sense at all and ruined the whole show for me, but off that evidence, ultimately you have to go with him because at least all of the other ones can actually fething die!

Bad fluff aside, common sense would demand Gulliman. He is literally the only professional soldier out of all of them. If the whole setting was real, it would be like asking who would win out of a Special Forces Operator and 17 National Guardsmen with emotional issues. Guilliman is genuinely professional, he trains, he studies, he is balanced, he doesn't have mental issues, he practices every day with a range of weapons, and studies tactics and war. He would be the best shot from all his range time and time spent in the field actually improving his skills, not getting drunk or perpetuating a massacre like Curze or Russ. He would be the fittest, because he apparently is the only one who actually trains, so he would be push-up champion of the cosmos as well, and he would be the best officer because he studies and doesn't mind hitting the books, so he would be the most versatile, and he even trains with other weapons from around the galaxy, so he would fit in better with other legions or forces, which would occasionally happen because no plan survives the shooting.

Basically, he is the consummate soldier, and he is surrounded by 17 fething idiots, so if I ignore the rag tag scribblings of the civilians that write for BL and simply go with what I know about the Primarchs and their apparent habits, this green beret sides with Roboute, as dull as he might sound compared to "characters" like Angron or Curze.

I mean, don't get me wrong, If I wanted my bachelor party organizing he would be bottom of the list, but we are talking about soldiering here!

 mattyrm wrote:
As it stands after reading the abortion that is An Unreemmbered Empire, surely it has to be Vulkan considering that he can't actually be killed? Angron could decapitate him and burn his body, and he would still just get up and be pissed off twenty minutes later. Curze is pretty bad ass on paper considering he seems to have beaten almost everyone up, but a flaming Vulkan gets up swinging everytime that Curze takes him down.

It makes no sense at all and ruined the whole show for me, but off that evidence, ultimately you have to go with him because at least all of the other ones can actually fething die!

Bad fluff aside, common sense would demand Gulliman. He is literally the only professional soldier out of all of them. If the whole setting was real, it would be like asking who would win out of a Special Forces Operator and 17 National Guardsmen with emotional issues. Guilliman is genuinely professional, he trains, he studies, he is balanced, he doesn't have mental issues, he practices every day with a range of weapons, and studies tactics and war. He would be the best shot from all his range time and time spent in the field actually improving his skills, not getting drunk or perpetuating a massacre like Curze or Russ. He would be the fittest, because he apparently is the only one who actually trains, so he would be push-up champion of the cosmos as well, and he would be the best officer because he studies and doesn't mind hitting the books, so he would be the most versatile, and he even trains with other weapons from around the galaxy, so he would fit in better with other legions or forces, which would occasionally happen because no plan survives the shooting.

Basically, he is the consummate soldier, and he is surrounded by 17 fething idiots, so if I ignore the rag tag scribblings of the civilians that write for BL and simply go with what I know about the Primarchs and their apparent habits, this green beret sides with Roboute, as dull as he might sound compared to "characters" like Angron or Curze.

I mean, don't get me wrong, If I wanted my bachelor party organizing he would be bottom of the list, but we are talking about soldiering here!

The same Guilliman who was completly suprised at Calth had his skull fractured by Lorgar and was manhandled by Angron ?

LOL, yeah, Old gully while not being a weak sister like alpharious and the other bobsy twin, was not one of the heavy hitters. I consider him more of the file clerk or paper pusher of the bunch.
While vulken may not be killable (thanks guys for spiling that for me as I have not read that book yet by the way), He can be contained and incapacitated fairly easily someone such as magnus. (or even others who have indeed done just that).

godking wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
As it stands after reading the abortion that is An Unreemmbered Empire, surely it has to be Vulkan considering that he can't actually be killed? Angron could decapitate him and burn his body, and he would still just get up and be pissed off twenty minutes later. Curze is pretty bad ass on paper considering he seems to have beaten almost everyone up, but a flaming Vulkan gets up swinging everytime that Curze takes him down.

It makes no sense at all and ruined the whole show for me, but off that evidence, ultimately you have to go with him because at least all of the other ones can actually fething die!

Bad fluff aside, common sense would demand Gulliman. He is literally the only professional soldier out of all of them. If the whole setting was real, it would be like asking who would win out of a Special Forces Operator and 17 National Guardsmen with emotional issues. Guilliman is genuinely professional, he trains, he studies, he is balanced, he doesn't have mental issues, he practices every day with a range of weapons, and studies tactics and war. He would be the best shot from all his range time and time spent in the field actually improving his skills, not getting drunk or perpetuating a massacre like Curze or Russ. He would be the fittest, because he apparently is the only one who actually trains, so he would be push-up champion of the cosmos as well, and he would be the best officer because he studies and doesn't mind hitting the books, so he would be the most versatile, and he even trains with other weapons from around the galaxy, so he would fit in better with other legions or forces, which would occasionally happen because no plan survives the shooting.

Basically, he is the consummate soldier, and he is surrounded by 17 fething idiots, so if I ignore the rag tag scribblings of the civilians that write for BL and simply go with what I know about the Primarchs and their apparent habits, this green beret sides with Roboute, as dull as he might sound compared to "characters" like Angron or Curze.

I mean, don't get me wrong, If I wanted my bachelor party organizing he would be bottom of the list, but we are talking about soldiering here!

The same Guilliman who was completly suprised at Calth had his skull fractured by Lorgar and was manhandled by Angron ?

Lorgar then proceeded to beat the everloving crap out of him again when Angron returned to his home planet to ascend.

godking wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

The same Guilliman who was completely suprised at Calth had his skull fractured by Lorgar and was manhandled by Angron ?

Yeah thats the one, did you read the whole post or just read "Gulliman" and then go ape gak?

I have read all of the books, I might have lost interest after the first five, but I've still read them, the whole post was about the fact that they are badly written and poorly thought out, and in reality Gulliman would be the best because he is the only one who actully does his job properly. His brothers are either bat gak crazy, or dont do their fething jobs at all. They are supposed to be soldiers and generals first and foremost, and he is the only one who actually throws himself into the job with gusto, ergo the rest of his brothers are like mentally deranged National Guardsman, and he is like a friggin Navy SEAL.

Plus, even if you cite individual incidents, like getting beat up by an individual primarch, they are wildly varying and ludicrous. One minute Guilliman is getting beaten up by a regular Space Marine, the next thing he kills 20 single handedly and unarmed. One minute he gets beat up by Lorgar, the next he holds his own against both Lorgar and Angron at the same time.

One minute Curze is kicking the Lions ass, the next the Lion is beating him up, the next he is happily fighting almost everyone all at once.

The point was that the fluff has become silly because there are too many books, too many angles, and too many writers, but if the whole thing was actually grounded in reality, Guilliman would be far and away the most useful soldier. The rest are either deranged, insane, emotionally crippled, or lazy and don't bother do any training or exercise.

Being deranged and mentally unstable helps a great deal in terms of martial combat. Look at the barbarians of Gaul, who were individually better fighters than the Roman Legions.

"The Gauls will break in five minutes against a Legion shieldwall, but that wall needs to hold against the Gauls for five minutes."
- Roman proverb

Angron would realistically manhandle Guilliman in hand-to-hand because that is all he was trained for and all he does. Angron may or may not train outside of combat, but he enters combat a lot. Much like how a trained, renowned gladiator would manhandle almost any Navy Seal or Green Beret in martial combat. Of course, you would be right to say that the firearms of either would prove more than a match for any gladiator, and would be right, but martial combat is the preferred method of fighting of the Primarchs, because it takes advantage of their superhuman physiology. And also, of course, because 40k is a fantasy series in space, and the Ultramarines are inspired by the Roman Legion.

Also, Guilliman held against Angron and Lorgar very briefly. Lorgar left the fight quickly to focus on channeling his sorcery. Guilliman to his credit did hold out against Angron for a while and dealt him some good blows, but he did ultimately lose. I also have no clue where you are getting this "only Guilliman trains" thing from.

And if Guilliman can be steamrolled by the sorcery of Kor Phaeron, Magnus or Lorgar would end him.

Overall, Magnus is the mightiest of the Primarchs. In martial ability alone, it is a bit harder to call. Skill plays a big part, but so does weaponry, strength, agility, endurance, etc. All of the Primarchs have this in varying amounts.

Ferrus trained and set up combat doctrines like Gulliman, Sanguinius was none of the things you claimed but instead what Horus feared his greatest threat, Dorn built a fortress that half the legions, half the imperial navy and army and half the mechanicum couldnt crack, Magnus could see what the enemy were going to do before they did it (that give you more power than any training), and both Horus and the Lion have been described as master tacticians... I think the smurf love has blinded you to the strengths of others!
Remember these are superhumans... more superman than kickass, they dont need to work out!

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Being deranged and mentally unstable helps a great deal in terms of martial combat. Look at the barbarians of Gaul, who were individually better fighters than the Roman Legions.

Fair point with Magnus, psyching is a big deal in the 40k universe, the above quote is absolute nonsense however.

Who says they were "individually" better fighters? An individual is exactly that, an individual. Some individuals are exceptional, some are below average. Some Roman Legionnaires were exceptional and would take apart some barbarians. The reason a berserk fighter is dangerous is because they have no heed for their own safety, so even if you win they may well critically injure you as they wade into the fray, but if you take people of the exact same individual merit, and train one of them rigorously, that one will take the other one to bits.

Put Manny Pacquiao on a beer and twinkie diet for 12 months and let Floyd Mayweather train as normal, see if anyone thinks that fight will be "too close to call" then.

And I said Guilliman is the only one who trains a lot because it says so in the fluff. He seems to be the only one who trains with numerous weapon systems, hits the practice cages, spars regularly, and also does that important tactical gak that high ranking officers concern themselves with while the grunts just have to keep fit. Angron does indeed seem to be exceptional at fighting, but he sucks at everything else, ergo if we judge "strongest" Primarch from the viewpoint of a soldier (lets be honest, that is their job) and the one who is the most complete package in that role, its not Angron, its Gulliman, because he is better than him at almost everything else, he would also be a much better marksman, engineer, medic, tactician, administrator, officer, leader, orator, scholar, sailor, candlestick maker, whatever.

He is an intellectual and well rounded individual in a setting filled with bat gak crazy.

Sanguinius seems pretty good, Magnus would undeniably be the best in duel, and the Lion is looking less narcissistic as the series goes on, Vulkan and the Khan are still not fleshed out enough to know, but one thing you can say for certainty is that the "strongest" is not going to be one of the mentally ill Primarchs like Curze or Angron.

Unless you mean "strongest" as in benchpress or boxing or something at which point it may well be one of the gak for brains guys like Russ or Angron, but really, if you were a soldier would you want to work for those guys?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Ferrus trained and set up combat doctrines like Gulliman, Sanguinius was none of the things you claimed but instead what Horus feared his greatest threat, Dorn built a fortress that half the legions, half the imperial navy and army and half the mechanicum couldnt crack, Magnus could see what the enemy were going to do before they did it (that give you more power than any training), and both Horus and the Lion have been described as master tacticians... I think the smurf love has blinded you to the strengths of others!
Remember these are superhumans... more superman than kickass, they dont need to work out!

Some good points, Dorn seems a pretty good soldier as well, but he also displays worrying psychological traits, I lost all respect for him after he threatened Garro, and the whole iron cage thing means I wouldn't like to serve as a soldier in his legion.

Same goes for Ferrus, he fethed up massively so I lose respect for him, the whole charging in blind thing is not something Gulliman would have done.

Sanguinius I will give you, he too seems a great man. And I suppose they dont need to work out, preposterous as it sounds.

The point is, I understand soldiering, I served in a combat role for a decade and based my judgements on my own real life assessment. With that in mind, is it possible not to love the "smurfs"?

If any professional combat soldier was made aware of all the facts had to pick a primarch to serve under, I guarantee every single one of them would say Gulliman, he is the only level headed guy in the setting that is not guaranteed to get you all slaughtered!

 mattyrm wrote:

Fair point with Magnus, psyching is a big deal in the 40k universe, the above quote is absolute nonsense however.

Who says they were "individually" better fighters?

The Romans themselves.

An individual is exactly that, an individual. Some individuals are exceptional, some are below average.

But there is an average.

Some Roman Legionnaires were exceptional and would take apart some barbarians.

Most would not.

The reason a berserk fighter is dangerous is because they have no heed for their own safety, so even if you win they may well critically injure you as they wade into the fray, but if you take people of the exact same individual merit, and train one of them rigorously, that one will take the other one to bits.

Ferocity is a powerful advantage in a fight. In a war, however, discipline does win, which is what you seem to be saying.

The Romans didn't train to be duelists by and large. We can see this in their weaponry. Look at the gladius. In a duel, it frankly leaves much to be desired. But for what it does, in a tight formation? It was one of the deadliest weapons on the battlefield, save only the mighty shovel.

Put Manny Pacquiao on a beer and twinkie diet for 12 months and let Floyd Mayweather train as normal, see if anyone thinks that fight will be "too close to call" then.

The Gauls trained and they didn't just sit around and get fat before going to war, lol. Nor do any of the Primarchs. Your analogy is disingenuous.

And I said Guilliman is the only one who trains a lot because it says so in the fluff.

Where.

He seems to be the only one who trains with numerous weapon systems, hits the practice cages, spars regularly, and also does that important tactical gak that high ranking officers concern themselves with while the grunts just have to keep fit. Angron does indeed seem to be exceptional at fighting, but he sucks at everything else, ergo if we judge "strongest" Primarch from the viewpoint of a soldier (lets be honest, that is their job) and the one who is the most complete package in that role, its not Angron, its Gulliman, because he is better than him at almost everything else, he would also be a much better marksman, engineer, medic, tactician, administrator, officer, leader, orator, scholar, sailor, candlestick maker, whatever.

Did you read the OP?

This is in a duel. Not in command of an army.

Guilliman would crush Angron Legion vs. Legion, I don't think anyone disputes that, but in a duel, aka what this thread is about, Angron has Guilliman's number.

You are exactly right in noting that Angron's prowess in martial combat is all Angron has going for him. It pretty much is. That is the point of his character.

He is an intellectual and well rounded individual in a setting filled with bat gak crazy.

Sanguinius seems pretty good, Magnus would undeniably be the best in duel, and the Lion is looking less narcissistic as the series goes on, Vulkan and the Khan are still not fleshed out enough to know, but one thing you can say for certainty is that the "strongest" is not going to be one of the mentally ill Primarchs like Curze or Angron.

Once again, this thread is explicitly about prowess in a duelist. Not as a general.

Unless you mean "strongest" as in benchpress or boxing or something at which point it may well be one of the gak for brains guys like Russ or Angron, but really, if you were a soldier would you want to work for those guys?!

Benchpress or boxing prowess would actually have more relevance in this thread than a strong grasp in logistics, lol.

And Leman Russ isn't an idiot. Or rather, he isn't supposed to be. You may have drawn that conclusion of him. I sometimes do myself.

Yeah the Gladius changed the world because it was designed to be only around as long as a mans forearm, the beserk fighters would carry large long weapons which meant that they had to be spread wider apart on the battlefield lest they risked hitting their comrades. The Romans would lock shields and use their short stabbing swords, meaning that when they were charged, there would always be three romans facing one barbarian, regardless of the numbers involved. I remember reading about it years ago, and that was the point I was trying to make, there is more to war than a duel.

As you say, if you are simply talking about a 1 v 1 fight, then obviously psychic gak means a deal as well. Magnus would be rock, but Corax is fething invisible and Vulkan is invincible! The point I was making is that the question seems a little silly, and it depends on the context, its not a case of locking two in a tiny cage and seeing who would win surely? Even in a cage fight, Angron would seem logical, or Curze who despite not being mentioned as being such a tough guy initially seems to be kicking everyones asses in the last three books!

So I approached the question logically, as in all around best, or simply put, the bloke I would want as my company commander in a war, and its Guilliman hands down.

Plus, he is hardly a slouch in a one on one fight anyway, because as I mentioned the fluff is contradictory, and several times he has been depicted as being a crazy bad ass, in such a scenario, it seems that a one on one fist fight would be impossible to call anyway, because on any given day any one seems capable of besting another.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the same token, why is Horus deemed to be the best duelist anyway? He doesn't seem to have actually done any fighting at all other than when he has been amped up by the chaos gods, if we are just talking a straight fight, surely he should not be allowed to win by default as he wouldn't be the superpowered version right?

 mattyrm wrote:


So I approached the question logically, as in all around best, or simply put, the bloke I would want as my company commander in a war, and its Guilliman hands down.

That wasnt the question in the OP, it was who is the "Strongest Primarch in a duel" not which Primarch would you like to be your company commander.

 mattyrm wrote:
As it stands after reading the abortion that is An Unreemmbered Empire, surely it has to be Vulkan considering that he can't actually be killed? Angron could decapitate him and burn his body, and he would still just get up and be pissed off twenty minutes later. Curze is pretty bad ass on paper considering he seems to have beaten almost everyone up, but a flaming Vulkan gets up swinging everytime that Curze takes him down.

It makes no sense at all and ruined the whole show for me, but off that evidence, ultimately you have to go with him because at least all of the other ones can actually fething die!

Bad fluff aside, common sense would demand Gulliman. He is literally the only professional soldier out of all of them. If the whole setting was real, it would be like asking who would win out of a Special Forces Operator and 17 National Guardsmen with emotional issues. Guilliman is genuinely professional, he trains, he studies, he is balanced, he doesn't have mental issues, he practices every day with a range of weapons, and studies tactics and war. He would be the best shot from all his range time and time spent in the field actually improving his skills, not getting drunk or perpetuating a massacre like Curze or Russ. He would be the fittest, because he apparently is the only one who actually trains, so he would be push-up champion of the cosmos as well, and he would be the best officer because he studies and doesn't mind hitting the books, so he would be the most versatile, and he even trains with other weapons from around the galaxy, so he would fit in better with other legions or forces, which would occasionally happen because no plan survives the shooting.

Basically, he is the consummate soldier, and he is surrounded by 17 fething idiots, so if I ignore the rag tag scribblings of the civilians that write for BL and simply go with what I know about the Primarchs and their apparent habits, this green beret sides with Roboute, as dull as he might sound compared to "characters" like Angron or Curze.

I mean, don't get me wrong, If I wanted my bachelor party organizing he would be bottom of the list, but we are talking about soldiering here!

You summarized my thoughts quite well. Guilliman is a rare success of the Primarch program. I am glad to see his character (and my nickname Gully) are starting to gain traction on this forum in lieu of the usual Rowboat Girlyman 4chan nonsense. Fulgrim is my go to guy for bachelor parties though.

and it is funny you should ask whether a soldier would want to work for Russ or Angron. In the latest HH book Scars, an aspirant earmarked for the Luna Wolves gets reassigned to the White Scars at the last moment. He is pretty upset, but consoles himself with the thought that at least it wasn't the Wolves or the War Hounds.

 mattyrm wrote:
Bad fluff aside, common sense would demand Gulliman. He is literally the only professional soldier out of all of them. If the whole setting was real, it would be like asking who would win out of a Special Forces Operator and 17 National Guardsmen with emotional issues.

You first mistake is applying real world common sense to 40k. Yes, in the real world navy seal guy beats merlin the magician every time. But that's only because in the real world magic isn't real.

 sierra 1247 wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:


So I approached the question logically, as in all around best, or simply put, the bloke I would want as my company commander in a war, and its Guilliman hands down.

That wasnt the question in the OP, it was who is the "Strongest Primarch in a duel" not which Primarch would you like to be your company commander.

Yeah Ive grasped that now, its still a bad question though isnt it? I mean, according to the whim of the far too many writers of the far too many books, any one of them can beat another on any given day!

The "powers" thing seems to make the question even harder to answer, because Vulkan is fething invincible, surely making him an inevitable winner? Magnus can do crazy magic, Corax can turn bloody invisible, and Sanguinius can friggin fly!

If it was a boxing tournament and no powers were allowed, I suppose Id have to go with Angron, but he could lost to pretty much any of them on any given day according to the books, almost all of them have lost a fight and won a fight, sometimes even to the same guy, and he does seem like a bit of an idiot, but I suppose he is as good as anybody else.

If it was merely "have a fight on a continent" with no rules, then I reckon its fair game for anyone, you might as well pull a name from a hat!

Unremembered Empire was great.

 cincydooley wrote:
Unremembered Empire was great.

I didnt think it was awful, I just think it fethed the whole story up for me, because I enjoyed the vagueness.

And the whole Vulkan thing really was silly in my book, I mean, what was the point?

 mattyrm wrote:

Yeah Ive grasped that now, its still a bad question though isnt it?

No, the question is fine, you just don't seem to want to answer it directly for some reason.

There is an established hierarchy within the Heresy series, and its been pretty consistent in regards to who is stronger than who. Kurze beat Dorn so badly that Dorn's mind has actually buried the incident because thinking about it causes him anguish. That's pretty conclusive in deciding who is the better fighter between the two. Guilliman was brought to his knees by a psychic attack from Kor Phaeron. That's pretty conclusive in deciding how well he would fare against a psyker of Magnus or Lorgar's capacity. Etc etc.

So it's not that silly of a question at all, and is in fact quite easy to answer.

The correct answer to the thread is Magnus the Red. Guilliman's tactical acuity and wide plethora of knowledge will do nothing to protect him from psychic assaults, and that goes for everybody. The only way to beat a psyker is to have a null around or a stronger psyker. None of the Primarchs possess either of those qualities.

 BlaxicanX wrote:


No, the question is fine, you just don't seem to want to answer it directly for some reason.

There is an established hierarchy within the Heresy series, and its been pretty consistent in regards to who is stronger than who. Kurze beat Dorn so badly that Dorn's mind has actually buried the incident because thinking about it causes him anguish. That's pretty conclusive in deciding who is the better fighter between the two. Guilliman was brought to his knees by a psychic attack from Kor Phaeron. That's pretty conclusive in deciding how well he would fare against a psyker of Magnus or Lorgar's capacity. Etc etc.

So it's not that silly of a question at all, and is in fact quite easy to answer.

Yes it is, its only easy to answer if you don't think very hard! I would have all sorts of questions. What are the rules? Where does it take place? Are they naked? Do they have time to prepare?

Just because Curze beat Dorn up when Dorn didnt expect a bat in the mouth, doesnt mean therefore that Curze will always beat Dorn now does it? How many boxers beat their opponent the first time and lose the rematch?

 BlaxicanX wrote:


The correct answer to the thread is Magnus the Red. Guilliman's tactical acuity and wide plethora of knowledge will do nothing to protect him from psychic assaults, and that goes for everybody. The only way to beat a psyker is to have a null around or a stronger psyker. None of the Primarchs possess either of those qualities

Pff.. why dont they have those qualities? That was my point, there isnt enough detail about the fight, where does it take place? Can you prepare? Can you bring weapons or tools?

Easy answer to that is, have a blank nullify the psyker, or bring one of the many trinkets that nullify physic powers, and then promptly beat the gak out of Magnus.

Furthermore, surely if you involve psychic powers, it isnt a "fight" its a psychic battle. Obviously Magnus is easily the most powerful psyker, but Russ still managed to snap his back.

i never clicked on any of tem although i have replied. I dont think horus was the most powerful at all. I think in terms of power and ability to do damage in any sort of dual would go to magnus. Horus might come in 2nd but magnus would curbstomp even horus, IF he were to have tried.