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You can turn the 2 player battlebox into a solid 35 point list by adding a choir, exemplar errants and a vassal. Should put you almost right at 35 points if I recall correctly.

I ended up trading away the khador half of my box to my brother. Before I traded it I was contemplating adding kayazy and a few solos. But I'd probably go for wintergaurd instead now for some shooting. Though I really like pikemen, too.

My dad will not buy anything because he doesn't want to waste money on another game.

So it will be me funding it for ever. I will be moving to grand rapids so hopefully I will find a store that does warmachine.

Asherian, before you go spending a ton of $ on this stuff, do yourself a favor and observe some games. Go online and download Vassal. Its a tabletop game simulator and you can use it to spectate other people playing warmachine. From there, I would suggest getting the faction deck for menoth and khador. While the suggestions here are very solid, you may not like how these models run and without the faction decks, you wont even know about all the other options out there without the cards or books.

Also - If fluff interests you; the new Iron Kingdoms RPG book is (to my knowledge) the single most complete source of fluff and history for this game and I think it is worth getting even if you do not want to play the RPG. It is somewhat expensive but its enormous, much larger than most other DnD style books. I think the first 140 pages are dedicated to fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also - Miniature Market also has good prices and free shipping on 100$+ sales. I purchased my entire 25pt Rhulic mercenary army for 102$ from them plus some extra solo mercs for customizing. They do a daily deal where they drop the price on something by about 50%, very good deal but they sell out fast. They were just selling the new Rhulic Earthbreaker colossal for 85$ (retails at 154$). It sold out by the time I clicked on my cart.

KingKodo wrote:
Asherian, before you go spending a ton of $ on this stuff, do yourself a favor and observe some games. Go online and download Vassal. Its a tabletop game simulator and you can use it to spectate other people playing warmachine. From there, I would suggest getting the faction deck for menoth and khador. While the suggestions here are very solid, you may not like how these models run and without the faction decks, you wont even know about all the other options out there without the cards or books.

Also - If fluff interests you; the new Iron Kingdoms RPG book is (to my knowledge) the single most complete source of fluff and history for this game and I think it is worth getting even if you do not want to play the RPG. It is somewhat expensive but its enormous, much larger than most other DnD style books. I think the first 140 pages are dedicated to fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also - Miniature Market also has good prices and free shipping on 100$+ sales. I purchased my entire 25pt Rhulic mercenary army for 102$ from them plus some extra solo mercs for customizing. They do a daily deal where they drop the price on something by about 50%, very good deal but they sell out fast. They were just selling the new Rhulic Earthbreaker colossal for 85$ (retails at 154$). It sold out by the time I clicked on my cart.

Well yeah. I was planning on play testing it first with my dad, and then I will decide from there.

Its just I always research ahead of time. Like what do I need. Because I have done this with many games. I research how they work, and their mechanics. I do not look at as a gamer, I look at it as a designer. So seeing different mechanics and how they work is another reason I am buying the starter box. If I can play the game with very little talk to by anyone, that means the designer was successful in writing the rules and mechanics.

See as a Game Designer, I rarely have fun because I see everything as mechanics or triggers activating events etc. So good idea.

How expensive is the RPG book? Because personally I would love to run a roleplay!

 Asherian Command wrote:
I do not look at as a gamer, I look at it as a designer. So seeing different mechanics and how they work is another reason I am buying the starter box. If I can play the game with very little talk to by anyone, that means the designer was successful in writing the rules and mechanics.

See as a Game Designer, I rarely have fun because I see everything as mechanics or triggers activating events etc. So good idea.

How expensive is the RPG book? Because personally I would love to run a roleplay!

Oh you are going to have a lot of fun with this game. The rules are some of the most finely-crafted I have ever seen for a miniatures game (possibly more so for hordes). The level of detail and complexity are just right to keep things engaging but fast. You'll have a lot of fun finding the cool interactions between units and rules.

The rpg book is rather pricy. I think $60? It is a nice book but it is very much a book on combat and character creation with some world history thrown in to get you into the world. The expansion books are supposed to offer more background with fewer rules. I have taken a look at the book and the quality is great. The combat is also very close to warmachine/hordes -to the point you could conceivably play your rpg characters as solos. Hopefully there will be official support for this later on but right now it would be a balance nightmare.

Rpg and tt rules are similar but dont transfer directly over. Trying it would be a bad idea for balance.

My friends and I have been playing the Rpg for about a year. It is pretty cool and had some nice differences from other systems. The Rpg has released 2 of 4 books so far. Anyways we have had alt of fun with it. The system is fun and unique.

 Dais wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I do not look at as a gamer, I look at it as a designer. So seeing different mechanics and how they work is another reason I am buying the starter box. If I can play the game with very little talk to by anyone, that means the designer was successful in writing the rules and mechanics.

See as a Game Designer, I rarely have fun because I see everything as mechanics or triggers activating events etc. So good idea.

How expensive is the RPG book? Because personally I would love to run a roleplay!

Oh you are going to have a lot of fun with this game. The rules are some of the most finely-crafted I have ever seen for a miniatures game (possibly more so for hordes). The level of detail and complexity are just right to keep things engaging but fast. You'll have a lot of fun finding the cool interactions between units and rules.

The rpg book is rather pricy. I think $60? It is a nice book but it is very much a book on combat and character creation with some world history thrown in to get you into the world. The expansion books are supposed to offer more background with fewer rules. I have taken a look at the book and the quality is great. The combat is also very close to warmachine/hordes -to the point you could conceivably play your rpg characters as solos. Hopefully there will be official support for this later on but right now it would be a balance nightmare.

Thats not pricey compared to GW XD

Thank you It is good to hear that. I've played tons of games like dipolomacy, settlers of catan, and many other fantastic games.

To be honest, for a full colored book their size, the RPG books are kind of par for the course when it comes to most modern RPGs.

And stuff.

 Blaque wrote:
To be honest, for a full colored book their size, the RPG books are kind of par for the course when it comes to most modern RPGs.

And stuff.

how specific. Par? Well I have yet to get an RPG book ever. Plus some reading material for my mind would be awesome.

I think he means cost and what they include as far as rules and fluff. The book itself it pretty standard and the price is typical for a book of that size and quality.

The new, revolutionary part of it is the rules themselves. Most notably how characters are built. You choose a race and an archetype like mighty, skilled, gifted or intellectual. Each archetype has benefits and abilities you can learn based on which one you choose. Then for your class you choose two careers to represent your skills you've picked up over time.

It is a really refreshing way to build characters. And really easy. Though there are rules if you want to get a little more customization out of it as well, but they are optional.

Gameplay itself is pretty standard, except everything is based on rolling 2d6.

Gaining experience and advancing is fairly regular. And every game or two you will get an advancement based on a table. The table helps limits min/maxing while still giving players some options to choose from.

Okay that sounds Like I should buy it once I get the money to do so.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Okay that sounds Like I should buy it once I get the money to do so.

If you like the Iron Kingdoms world and like pen and paper RPGs then I would highly recommend it. If you are Meh on either of those then I would say not to.

Though the 2nd book has a ton of world fluff and some nice maps if you are into that. For some people it might be worth that alone even if you don't RPG.

Yea $50 to $60 is pretty standard for hardcover rulebooks of that size in rpgs.

The RPG book is considerably higher quality than other RPG books that I have used. It has significantly more fluff and history than any other single source. It covers the history of the Iron kingdoms dating thousands of years to I believe the creation of the planet as seen from each religion's perspective. It has more pages on fluff and history than most DnD books had pages. Its really well done and I think its around 50$ shipped online.

Already its on my to do list.

WELL. . . I am sold then. . . .now do I go for Scyrah or Cygnar. . .

 Lysenis wrote:
WELL. . . I am sold then. . . .now do I go for Scyrah or Cygnar. . .

Cygnar. I've read that they are basically the most diverse with races.

I like diversity. . . . but Scyrah look so GOOD!. . . and have shields. . . ohhhh the decisions. . . .

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Blaque wrote:
To be honest, for a full colored book their size, the RPG books are kind of par for the course when it comes to most modern RPGs.

And stuff.

how specific. Par? Well I have yet to get an RPG book ever. Plus some reading material for my mind would be awesome.

The book is big enough to beat a pig to death. *sigh* Poor pigly.

Folks kind of answered the question on my previous statment. IKRPG isn't very expensive compared to other non-limitted editon full color RPG corebooks like 13th Age, Legend of the Five Rings 4e, or some PoD Onyx Path stuff. I dropped over $100 on the limitted edition of Exalted 3e earlier this year.

So $60 for a corebook isn't very bizarre or expensive really. It is also much cheaper than an equivilant textbook.

And stuff.

The combat systems for the IKRPG and Warmachine are basically the same thing. You can actually almost completely reverse engineer a Warmachine model's statline into IKRPG.

Of course things that are just cannon fodder in Warmachine are actually pretty tough in IKRPG. Mechanithralls are not something lvl1 characters should be tangling with. As we found out all too well the first time my group played.

 Surtur wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Blaque wrote:
To be honest, for a full colored book their size, the RPG books are kind of par for the course when it comes to most modern RPGs.

And stuff.

how specific. Par? Well I have yet to get an RPG book ever. Plus some reading material for my mind would be awesome.

The book is big enough to beat a pig to death. *sigh* Poor pigly.

No kidding. I got a bigger Man Bag to carry my RPG stuff around in and it just fits my Nook HD+, IKRPG Core, KNG, and loose papers folder. Have to sit my dice on top of the books. Definitely not the "One Bag to Carry Them All" I was hoping for that would carry all that AND the Wilds book when it was released.

Now I am thinking about starting an RP game. Thanks Dakka. Now I have to go to the bank and get a hundred dollars. *sigh*

Forget advertisements, just go to dakkadakka to lose your money XD

I wonder if my FLGS has an IKRPG game or people who want to play. . .

 Asherian Command wrote:
Now I am thinking about starting an RP game. Thanks Dakka. Now I have to go to the bank and get a hundred dollars. *sigh*

Forget advertisements, just go to dakkadakka to lose your money XD

I highly recommend watching khador wargamergirl's batreps on YouTube...they are smooth, short and real close to the table...her slightly fluff driven commentary and the producer's well edited/music added vids are perfect.

To get a good feel of how hordes works slightly different, watch her game khador vs. Circle, which she played very well, but had more snake eyes sightings than season 3 of GIJoe

 Lysenis wrote:
I like diversity. . . . but Scyrah look so GOOD!. . . and have shields. . . ohhhh the decisions. . . .

They are both diverse combined arms factions. For the moment, however, Scyrah is the faction of the two with the most apparent built-in weaknesses since it's not got all of it's models while Cygnar does (so to speak), meaning it's one of the factions that have the hardest time overcoming gimmick lists built around their factional weakness. Another aspect that hasn't been touched, as far as I've read, is mercenaries. Cygnar are very good at playing with mercenaries and can basically pick whichever contract they want while Retribution are limited to mercenary units that contain elves (meaning they can at most have 2 non-elf models in their army iirc). The elven mercenaries treat Retribution as in-faction models, however, so you never run into problems with spell targeting or things like that - Cygnar can get around it with a specific solo, but that would only applies to his unit.

If you're attracted to both, I'd say the best recommendation is Cygnar. I play Retribution myself, but Cygnar is the most fleshed out and easiest to expand on, it's also easier to find decent advice on various forums (particularly on dakka). As a side benefit, you don't have to put up with those really old and particularly unenlightened/unintelligent comments about "hippie elves" (and that benefit is actually a huge thing in the long run).