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I do not know much about Warmachine, and I would like to know my options in factions, lore, rules, etc. 40k I have lost complete faith in.

I have a few questions before I start buying stuff.

Is the game fun? Is the fluff interesting? Is there anything I need to know? How big is a game? What are the factions? What would you recommend for me?

I love Knights and any faction that has a holy influence. But I also like factions that are sort of traders. I have been interested in warmachine for a while.

I'll make this simple for you. If you want to know more then you need to search the forums or wait for someone to respond in depth.

Warmachine - Steampunk kingdoms
- Khador - Russians who like heavy armor and the color red
- Cygnar - Scholarly types who like guns/magic and the color blue
- Menoth - Brimstone and fire religious types who like synergy and the color white.
- Cryx - Liches and Pirates who like tricky moves and the colors green and black
- Retribution - Angry techno elves who like energy shields and the color blueish white
- Convergence - People who willingly became robots. Don't know much beyond that, very little experience with them.
- Mercenaries - All the smaller forces that make up the kingdom. Includes everything like the french, dwarves, pirates, etc.. Likes all colors.

Hordes - Armies composes of beasts and warlocks that control them.

- Skorne - Masochistic desert mongol elves that like to enslave things and enjoy the color red.
- Circle - Druids who try to keep the balance of the world in check, use stone golems and 50 shades of wolves, enjoys the color green.
- Troll bloods - Trolls that act like toned down 40k Orks. They like to not die after you kill them. Also like the color blue.
- Everblight - Dragon spawned abominations and corrupted things. They're pretty big on alpha strikes, like the color blueish grey.
- Minions - Gatorpeople, pig people, fish people, thingpeople. Generally like to be bayou rednecks. Hordes version of mercenaries.

>Is the game fun?
A lot of people play it, so it must be. You won't know until you try it. Worst case scenario if you get a battle group and hate it you can get rid of them easily enough. PP also doesn't hate you like GW, so a lot of the company policies regarding the game are sound. Hate how warhammer is all about netlists and spamming what's broken? That doesn't really happen with warmahordes, as the balance is pretty good, and the rules are tight in general.

>how big is the game?
Much much smaller model count than warhammer. A 50 pt army, which is bigger than most common games, will have less than 40 models MOST OF THE TIME. I imagine it's quite possible to be effective with even 20.

If you like holy warrior types, go Menoth. Lawful evil organization that worships a lawful neutral god. At first I didn't like them because they're pushy burn the heretic types, but reading into it they're not all like that, just probably most of them. Some of them seem quite likeable, and those tend to be pretty powerful to boot, like Vilmon.

I am one of those fed up 40K players who started playing warmachine and never looked back a few years ago.

As a game snob, warmachine is much better. The rules are tight and clear. You rarely have a rules debate, more like a rules clarification. And if there is an actual debate then you can get an official rules answer on the PP boards. The game as a whole requires more skill and tactics. A player's skill in the game will usually win out over list building.

I like the fluff better. I always felt like the 40K fluff was more like reading propaganda than fluff. The 40K fluff, while heroic, is more like a story. And each new book continues the story as well. You are not stuck in one space and time. That said, I know people who feel the warmachine fluff lacks depth and maturity. So to each their own I guess.

There is not as much hobbying in warmachine. For example counts-as isn't really a thing. If you are going to play a model it pretty much has to be that model. That said there is still a lot of stuff you can do and conversions and customization happens a lot. And there are no rules on paint schemes so you can paint your stuff however you want.

A game is usually 35 or 50 points. 35 points usually has a warcaster, one or two jack, a couple units and a few solos. 30 models at this point is a "horde". 50 points gets you more. Usually another full unit and maybe a couple more solos/support. Games are played on a 4x4 board and tend to be much faster than 40K. A game of 35 points can be played in as little as an hour with people who are focused and know how their list plays. Me and my friends always BS too much and take more like 2 hours.

There are a bunch of factions. Check out battlecollege for a rundown:
http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/home

If you like knights and holiness then I would start with Menoth. They are filled with holy knights, paladins and zealots. Not sure about Traders. But maybe the mercenaries are the way to go there? There are Dwarves who are traders and sell swords. You also have pirates (privateers) who work for the Merchant Companies. There is also Magnus the Traitor! haha!

Anyways, the game is awesome. Getting started is easy and relatively cheap. PP has good prices on the rulebooks and the starter sets. I'd recommend getting the Prime book and the Menoth starter box (battle box). Play your starter box against others for awhile then expand from there. And if you want to get others into it at the same time have them get a starter box as well.

Overall I like that the game tends to be cheaper than 40K. Not on a per model basis, but getting a working army together is much less. you can build decent 35 point armies for under $200.

Hope that helps. Read some of the other starter/newbie threads around here and ask us questions as you have them.

Thank you. I am quite fed up with 40k's stigma.

I will play Menoth. And hopefully build another army with it. Hopefully will be able to play with family members, because I am moving to college.

I'd recommend a hordes army then, so you can have a bit of both.

Well I just bought the battle box so I could have a Khador and Menoth. I am a broke college student after all so I will chase down stuff that is lower in price. But I plan on getting a job to pay for stuff.

So What should I consider in getting next? For both Khador and Menoth?

Honestly, you want to get many games in, read the rulebook, then do some more games, then read the rule book again.

Honestly, where to go is up to you. There really isn't any MUST HAVES in either army. My suggestion is look at the warcasters. Pick one for each force that you like (or already have in this case). Look at what they do, and what they work well with. Do they buff infantry? Do they buff jacks? Start with things that will be good in that force, then once you're ready to try another caster out, rinse and repeat, only this time you already have some stuff that might work well with the new one.

I could tell you to pick up some widowmaker and doomreavers for khador because of how fun they are to use, but that doesn't mean they would work at all if you have a caster that isn't really build to support them.

Also battlecollege is your friend, it also gives you info on what works well with what.

Well I am playing both Khador and Menoth. I like both. One for one of my friends to play. because I am no where near one at my campus. :/

Menoth has must haves, mostly the choir of menoth, and maybe the vassal. Those are both dirt cheap though. I would say khador's only must have would be the great bears squad but that's just because they work in just about any list. Widow makers are similar but I find myself running great bears far more often... like in every list...

I'll wait for sales on amazon then I will buy it. Or when my aunt gives me money XD.

So choir of Menoth maybe a Vassal

And then for Khador Bear Squad or a Widowmaker. (i'll leave my dad to that decision)

But anyway. I will get Menoth and Khador so me and my dad could enjoy the game.

I plan on getting the books just to read the lore, because lore is sort of my thing. And also for my short novel I have to write.

The two player battlebox is a great start. You can play that against each other for awhile until you get bored and want more.

Then usually another unit and a couple solos will bring you to the 35 point mark.

Also a cheap way to mix the game up is with another caster. They tend to be cheaper since they are single models. And a caster switch will often change how the entire army plays.

 Asherian Command wrote:
I do not know much about Warmachine, and I would like to know my options in factions, lore, rules, etc. 40k I have lost complete faith in.

Former 40k player, I can feel ya.

Question: Is the game fun?

Answer: Yes, obviously or I wouldn't be playing it. This is subjectively and clearly anyone who sticks with it is going to think yes. I'm not sure that's a terribly useful answer though, so I'll tell you why I enjoy the game: It has a deep result that produces interesting game states. The model stable is reasonably balanced and you can approach any given faction or problem from different angles. It has a very high skill cieilng that rewards player understanding at all levels of the game (List Construction, Match-up Choice, Board Position & Piece Trading)

Question: Is the fluff interesting?

Answer: I think so. I've been playing running in RPG in the game's setting (Iron Kingdoms) for over two years now. While the "Scope" of the setting is much smaller a conceptual level than 40k, it often feels bigger because they have room to into so much more detail on things. Like when there are only a handful of major cities in the setting you can get a very good understanding of *all* the major cities, on a granular level.

The expanded materials (RPGs, and recently novels) give you a very good view of how everything fits together. The settings is very believable in its own way, and is just scattered with fun details on where various ethnic groups live and how the religions, species and cultures relate.

The setting is also alive in a way 40ks isn't. Every expansion or addition they make to the game advances the storyline. Territory changes hand, characters die, politics shift. The writing can be more than bit cheesy in places, but that's kind of par for course in miniatures game (and some of the charm for me).

Question: Is there anything I need to know?

The game has a steeper learning curve than 40k, and things that might be looked with terms like "Cheesy" or "Waac" in a 40k setting are par for the course here. The game is sometimes compared to Magic: The Gather and that isn't wholly incorrect. The game has a lot of moving parts to it and system mastery is seen as a good thing. Putting together combos, crazy tricks, or lock-out denial is fundamental part of the game.



How big is a game? What are the factions?

What would you recommend for me?

I love Knights and any faction that has a holy influence. But I also like factions that are sort of traders. I have been interested in warmachine for a while.

Protectorate of Menoth is the closest fit. As it is a theology with lots of knights. Though the fire and brimstone heretic-and-witch hunting may feel a bit close to the imperium to really be a breath of fresh air, if that's what you're looking for. They also run from the factions core units, to some of their more niche ones.

Cygnaralso has a lot of knights and a probably more variety in them. The protectorate pretty much has one order of knights with various branches. Cygnar has 3 different branches of knights in a very different flavors. However they only have a few elements from their respective church and fewer of their knights are core faction staples.

For the Emperor...er...Menoth!

Anyway, on another topic, if you're worried about the price then feel relieved that Privateer Press is actually sane when it comes to online retailers and pricing discounts. You can easily find online stores that sell all the models for 25% off retail price.

One of my favorites is Discount Games Inc (I'm not affiliated with them, but they're based out of my hone state and run a Warmachine podcast I like to listen to). You can find them easily on Google.

 dementedwombat wrote:
For the Emperor...er...Menoth!

Anyway, on another topic, if you're worried about the price then feel relieved that Privateer Press is actually sane when it comes to online retailers and pricing discounts. You can easily find online stores that sell all the models for 25% off retail price.

One of my favorites is Discount Games Inc (I'm not affiliated with them, but they're based out of my hone state and run a Warmachine podcast I like to listen to). You can find them easily on Google.

+1 to this. DGI is great because their standard price is a little more than 25% off and they offer free shipping at $50 so it is quite easy to get to that threshold even when making modest purchases.

Welcome to the game. There is a lot to learn but it if fun and rewarding at just about any point level.

Should I get the book on both khador and menoth? Are they worth getting?

I am interested in both. I will probably tell my brother about it.

So DGI is great? Huh. Interesting. I barely found any menoth stuff, but a ton of khador stuff.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Should I get the book on both khador and menoth? Are they worth getting?

I am interested in both. I will probably tell my brother about it.

So DGI is great? Huh. Interesting. I barely found any menoth stuff, but a ton of khador stuff.

The books are nice but completely unnecessary. They have background and stats, but each model comes with its own rules and stat card. The only books that you might need are Wrath and Colossals just for rules for battle engines and colossals.

If you want the stats without buying the books, there is a digital app call War Room that Privateer Press makes. You can buy "faction decks" on there that have all the stats for all the models for any given faction. The books have great fluff and good art, but are completely optional.

DGI carries everything for the line. It may not be in stock atm but they restock regularly. I've never had to wait more than a week for something I wanted to come back in stock.

Also, if you're playing Menoth you really neeed a Choir. They are one of the few "auto-include" models in the game. They're a support model for your 'jacks that really makes them shine. There isn't a jack in your faction that doesn't want them regardless of which 'caster you're running the 'jack under.

 Surtur wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Should I get the book on both khador and menoth? Are they worth getting?

I am interested in both. I will probably tell my brother about it.

So DGI is great? Huh. Interesting. I barely found any menoth stuff, but a ton of khador stuff.

The books are nice but completely unnecessary. They have background and stats, but each model comes with its own rules and stat card. The only books that you might need are Wrath and Colossals just for rules for battle engines and colossals.

What????

Alright so they are completely optional sweet.

So Choir of Menoth is a must. Cool

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Should I get the book on both khador and menoth? Are they worth getting?

I am interested in both. I will probably tell my brother about it.

So DGI is great? Huh. Interesting. I barely found any menoth stuff, but a ton of khador stuff.

The books are nice but completely unnecessary. They have background and stats, but each model comes with its own rules and stat card. The only books that you might need are Wrath and Colossals just for rules for battle engines and colossals.

What????

Alright so they are completely optional sweet.

So Choir of Menoth is a must. Cool

It's what makes our jacks superb. They can deny shooting, magic or make them do beastly damage. Important to note that bonuses to damage rolls goes around the half pow rule for blasts making the vanquisher quite nasty.

I too am thinking about starting up Warmachine/Hordes. One question I can't seem to find though is how do you know how much each model/unit is? Is there an equivalent to the 40k Codex for each faction or is there a master list somewhere?

 Unholyllama wrote:
I too am thinking about starting up Warmachine/Hordes. One question I can't seem to find though is how do you know how much each model/unit is? Is there an equivalent to the 40k Codex for each faction or is there a master list somewhere?

Yes, But it it is optional

There are cards that come with each guy.

also After the choir what else should I get?

And what should my compsition be for Khador and Menoth? Because I would like to have two armies, because I love both concepts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Surtur wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Should I get the book on both khador and menoth? Are they worth getting?

I am interested in both. I will probably tell my brother about it.

So DGI is great? Huh. Interesting. I barely found any menoth stuff, but a ton of khador stuff.

The books are nice but completely unnecessary. They have background and stats, but each model comes with its own rules and stat card. The only books that you might need are Wrath and Colossals just for rules for battle engines and colossals.

What????

Alright so they are completely optional sweet.

So Choir of Menoth is a must. Cool

It's what makes our jacks superb. They can deny shooting, magic or make them do beastly damage. Important to note that bonuses to damage rolls goes around the half pow rule for blasts making the vanquisher quite nasty.

Okay. I like. Choir of Menoth and then build an army around warjacks?

 Asherian Command wrote:

Okay. I like. Choir of Menoth and then build an army around warjacks?

Choir + 2 "Vassals of Menoth" is the standard Protectorate Warjack support package. The Reckoner is our top Warjack. The Vanquisher, Redeemer, Templar and Repenter are all rock solid options. The Devout is also a very useful tool. The Vigilant and Castigator are kind of duds. The Crusader, Guardian, Revenger and Dervish are OK, but narrow and having specific applications. All the characters 'jacks are pretty solid save Scourge of Heresy.

Regardless of the their place on the strength spectrum, all the 'Jacks have intuitive roles even a newbie can get out of their entry. Only Fires of Salvation & The Avatar really have a lot of hidden tricks or depth.

In general you can expect to run 2 'Jacks that want focus (Reckoner/Templar/Crusader/Redeemer/Dervish/etcc) plus one or two that don't (Avatar/Repenter/Sanctifier). Depending on the points. Some casters can run an extra 'Jack or so (pSevvy, Harbinger). Others may want fewer because of the specifics of their loadout.

If you're buying a 'Jack outside the starter, hands down go with the reckoner. It is the best Warjack in the faction and is point for point probably the best 'Jack in the game. Seriously, it's crazy good and basically does everything short of clear infantry efficiently.

Chongara wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

Okay. I like. Choir of Menoth and then build an army around warjacks?

Choir + 2 "Vassals of Menoth" is the standard Protectorate Warjack support package. The Reckoner is our top Warjack. The Vanquisher, Redeemer, Templar and Repenter are all rock solid options. The Devout is also a very useful tool. The Vigilant and Castigator are kind of duds. The Crusader, Guardian, Revenger and Dervish are OK, but narrow and having specific applications. All the characters 'jacks are pretty solid save Scourge of Heresy.

Regardless of the their place on the strength spectrum, all the 'Jacks have intuitive roles even a newbie can get out of their entry. Only Fires of Salvation & The Avatar really have a lot of hidden tricks or depth.

In general you can expect to run 2 'Jacks that want focus (Reckoner/Templar/Crusader/Redeemer/Dervish/etcc) plus one or two that don't (Avatar/Repenter/Sanctifier). Depending on the points. Some casters can run an extra 'Jack or so (pSevvy, Harbinger). Others may want fewer because of the specifics of their loadout.

If you're buying a 'Jack outside the starter, hands down go with the reckoner. It is the best Warjack in the faction and is point for point probably the best 'Jack in the game. Seriously, it's crazy good and basically does everything short of clear infantry efficiently.

All I need is the Choir and the Recokoner and Two Vassals

No infantry models like Exemplars?

I am going off the battlebox starter with the two players.

Seconded on the reckoner. I think it *is* the best jack in the game.

If you have a suitable device perhaps download War Room. It's not the greatest app but if you pick up a faction deck for about $6 you'll get access to every card ever made (or going to be made as it updates) for that faction. You also get a very nice reference section you can search (and which also links off the cards). For someone starting out it's a very useful tool even if you don't buy a deck (you still get access to all the stuff in the Prime and Primal books) and hey, it's free, because PP doesn't hate you.

Probably the easiest unit, outside of the choir for Menoth are the Knights Exemplar Errants. They're just damn solid all the way around with good hitting power, good shooting, decent speed (with pathfinder) and great armour.

Okay so in order

Choir of Menoth
Reckoner
Knights Exemplar
Paladin of the Wall

But about Khador?

Iron Fang Pikemen are a solid Khador unit, as are Widowmakers. There's also the WInter Guard set up but eh... go a different way, at least to start. Mechanics can also provide some good support to already durable Khador heavies.

 Kojiro wrote:
Iron Fang Pikemen are a solid Khador unit, as are Widowmakers. There's also the WInter Guard set up but eh... go a different way, at least to start. Mechanics can also provide some good support to already durable Khador heavies.

The Winterguard Death Star is also losing favor since the wider meta has shifted away from high Def being the beesknees it used to be.

 Kojiro wrote:
Iron Fang Pikemen are a solid Khador unit, as are Widowmakers. There's also the WInter Guard set up but eh... go a different way, at least to start. Mechanics can also provide some good support to already durable Khador heavies.

Okay so Iron Fang Pikeman and WIdowmakers?

 Asherian Command wrote:
Okay. I like. Choir of Menoth and then build an army around warjacks?

Usually that's how it works. But we aren't talking an army of only jacks. A typical 50 point tournament list will have 3-5 jacks depending on it they're light or heavy. So overall maybe half the army devoted to jacks and their support with the rest in infantry.

Menoth is the jack faction. Which is actually very strange considering the fluff.


Quicky little fluff rundown.

Menoth is the creator of man. He gave mankind 3 main gifts. Fire, masonry, and farming. At it's core, Sorcery, and anything derived from it, is heretical.

Many thousands of years ago, the Orgoth invaded and subjugated all of Immoron and mankind suffered under their rule.

A set of twins, Morrow and Thamar, were instrumental in the rebellion that overthrew the Orgoth and they brought magic to mankind. Later both these twins ascended and became gods.

Morrow is basically the god of Mechanika and nearly all modern technology(including Warjacks) is based on this magic.

And so, in the strictest interpretation of Menoth's law, Warjacks are unclean abomination. However, ways have been made to sanctify the technology(because Menoth intended his people to be victorious) and so the Protectorate has warjacks. Albeit less advanced than other nations.

The servicing of jacks is always overseen by members of the clergy who ensure the unclean technology is properly sanctified. This is the origin of the Choir.


The magic the Protectorate uses is divine magic(in that it comes directly from Menoth) and so is different from other magic used by other humans. although Morrow and Tharmarite's also have divine magic of their own.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
Iron Fang Pikemen are a solid Khador unit, as are Widowmakers. There's also the WInter Guard set up but eh... go a different way, at least to start. Mechanics can also provide some good support to already durable Khador heavies.

Okay so Iron Fang Pikeman and WIdowmakers?

Both are good.

Winter Guard are VERY good, but that's what everyone runs. Its commonly called the WGDS(Winter Guard Death Star)

It consists of a max unit of Winter Guard with UA, sometimes the Rocketeer weapon attachments too, and Kovnik Joe. Joe gives the unit a buff each turn(Either Tough, bonuses to hit and damage, or speed)

The unit itself has multiple special abilities both normally and from the UA.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Okay. I like. Choir of Menoth and then build an army around warjacks?

Usually that's how it works. But we aren't talking an army of only jacks. A typical 50 point tournament list will have 3-5 jacks depending on it they're light or heavy. So overall maybe half the army devoted to jacks and their support with the rest in infantry.

Menoth is the jack faction. Which is actually very strange considering the fluff.


Quicky little fluff rundown.

Menoth is the creator of man. He gave mankind 3 main gifts. Fire, masonry, and farming. At it's core, Sorcery, and anything derived from it, is heretical.

Many thousands of years ago, the Orgoth invaded and subjugated all of Immoron and mankind suffered under their rule.

A set of twins, Morrow and Thamar, were instrumental in the rebellion that overthrew the Orgoth and they brought magic to mankind. Later both these twins ascended and became gods.

Morrow is basically the god of Mechanika and nearly all modern technology(including Warjacks) is based on this magic.

And so, in the strictest interpretation of Menoth's law, Warjacks are unclean abomination. However, ways have been made to sanctify the technology(because Menoth intended his people to be victorious) and so the Protectorate has warjacks. Albeit less advanced than other nations.

The servicing of jacks is always overseen by members of the clergy who ensure the unclean technology is properly sanctified. This is the origin of the Choir.


The magic the Protectorate uses is divine magic(in that it comes directly from Menoth) and so is different from other magic used by other humans. although Morrow and Tharmarite's also have divine magic of their own.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
Iron Fang Pikemen are a solid Khador unit, as are Widowmakers. There's also the WInter Guard set up but eh... go a different way, at least to start. Mechanics can also provide some good support to already durable Khador heavies.

Okay so Iron Fang Pikeman and WIdowmakers?

Both are good.

Winter Guard are VERY good, but that's what everyone runs. Its commonly called the WGDS(Winter Guard Death Star)

It consists of a max unit of Winter Guard with UA, sometimes the Rocketeer weapon attachments too, and Kovnik Joe. Joe gives the unit a buff each turn(Either Tough, bonuses to hit and damage, or speed)

The unit itself has multiple special abilities both normally and from the UA.

Sounds like the imperium's logic. Alrighty thats all I needed. I have more questions I'll just pm people about it.