Drake 2 Kickstarter has opened

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**corgan**

Denilsta wrote:
Unfortunately, the Dragons are the weaker part of the range in my experience with the three I have received.

Rish dragon - resin/plastic body and wings, metal neck and head. The resin armour lacks detail in places and the metal spikes on its chin are a silly things to have separate.

Timor Dragon - all resin/plastic, some real quality control issues on this one with some horrendous mold lines.

Formosi Dragon - all metal apart from resin feet molded into those painfully awful bases they use on the dragons. Not the best miniature position wise.

With the dragons I think it is the smooth skin (lack of scales) which I personally think make them look just a little bit wrong.....and I wish I could remove the bases but I would definitely end up damaging the dragons to re base them.

Could you please give us also your opinion on the human miniatures? I would be interested especially in the Rish "knights"? Sculpting, quality of the material e.t.c. Many thanks!

**Overread**

Looking closely at the resin/plastic it can actually hold good detail, a surprising amount. So the material and the casting process can achieve more than AGM has thrown at it. I think that when it came to the larger models they went for a lower texture approach to allow for greater freehand painting options for painters.

I'm not sure (as they've not been cast yet) but the newer models in the new KS appear (at least to my eye) to have more textured surfaces and it could be that AGM is responding to and adapting their production to now take advantage of the texturing.

Metal wise the only real complaint I could say I have is the swords. By going for real-scale they've ended up very thin - which makes them vulnerable for gaming. I'm hopeful that they might start to beef up the swords and other thin parts to be a little thicker. Even though it removes the unified real-scale approach its a more sensible plan for models of this size and for tabletop gaming.

**Denilsta**

corgan wrote:
Denilsta wrote:
Unfortunately, the Dragons are the weaker part of the range in my experience with the three I have received.

Rish dragon - resin/plastic body and wings, metal neck and head. The resin armour lacks detail in places and the metal spikes on its chin are a silly things to have separate.

Timor Dragon - all resin/plastic, some real quality control issues on this one with some horrendous mold lines.

Formosi Dragon - all metal apart from resin feet molded into those painfully awful bases they use on the dragons. Not the best miniature position wise.

With the dragons I think it is the smooth skin (lack of scales) which I personally think make them look just a little bit wrong.....and I wish I could remove the bases but I would definitely end up damaging the dragons to re base them.

Could you please give us also your opinion on the human miniatures? I would be interested especially in the Rish "knights"? Sculpting, quality of the material e.t.c. Many thanks!

Ok....I can only comment on the miniatures I have received and remember this is just my opinion, but here goes...

Rish

Rivercrest Swordmen, Overread hit the nail on the head with his comment on the weapons being to thin, my other gripe is the fact the scabbards have 'sunk' into their legs in places. On the whole the quality is actually very good on these if not the most dynamic poses.

Rivercrest Scouts - again nice models but they have the same 'sinking' problem with parts of their bows, boots etc...phasing into their cloaks.

Drak Rider - a very nice model (the best of the Rish...I have 4 of them), but does it have to be in about 14 parts? Again bendy weapon time and not a huge scope to customize them unfortunately.

Princess Acadia - could have been so nice, but there is something wrong with the proportions in the head, neck and chest area...like a pin head on Pamela Anderson's body.

Yeev - nothing wrong with it really, quite a nice model if not super detailed.

Saan[/b]

Kaymayuk Warriors - the one with the mask is excellent, the ones without the mask are horrendous.....it's like two different sculptors did them. Head, hairline and poses (shudder).....and again bendy weapon time. The missing masked warrior looks another excellent one.

Kaymayuk Priestess - very small areas to connect the arms, staff is very thin and again slight pin head thing going on...but over all not to bad.

Saan Commander - not the best unfortunately, a helmeted version of one of the badly posed Kaymayuk Warriors....I am not sure why he is wearing huge snow boots.

Corbrulo - A lovely model with a lot of character...if slightly to many bits again.

Power Mark - a personal gripe here, a water based force and they are mounted on very badly scuplted rocks (better suited for the Garrick), the detail is none existent on two sides of the rock base.

Terrax - similar in quality to the to the Yeev, but the arms do not have the best fixing points.

[b]Garrick

Groms - the scupts are fine and bulky, but this is my least favorite force., nothing really wrong with them it's just my personal taste.

Cherek Hunters - the same as the Groms

Cherek Mobi - I get this as a free model (they gave everyone a certain number of free models due to the delays), I did not chose it in the first place as it is one of my least favorite models from the whole range, it just looks goofy.

Great Master - I like it, it just has character, not the most detailed sculpt but still one of my favorites.

Chereck mother - again another free one I would not have picked, it is wrong on so many levels. The concept and the execution are not great, there are two 'baby 'heads on a separate sprues...they are basically round balls about 2mm in diameter.

Unaligned Models[/u]

Bastile - the metal is pitted and the weapon is so thin its like its made from tin foil.

Eye of Kyran - small....so small, looks human sized in the 3D image, actually a small goblin sized in reality.

Rakhera - The Demon - the least scary demon every, again smaller than I was expecting.

The Twins - nice, but with no tab and very small contact areas to stand up on I can see issues here.

It may come across that I am being very down on the whole range but that's not really true. AGM are a new company, and I started collecting GW pre-slotta and I have seen some horrible models over the years (Gary Morley I am looking at you) and I am sure they will improve dramatically, it is just technology have moved on a lot in the last 28 years and I think I am spoilt by the likes of Mierce, Forge World, Infinity, confrontation etc....

**RiTides**

That's very helpful, Denilsta. Any chance of some pics of some of the things that stand out- both good and bad?

**Overread**

DenilstaMade - I'd agree with most of your points on the models. For a first run batch they are generally a very good range; a few niggles here and there and honestly the swords is the really only tricky part that might be resolve in later versions (we can hope).

Interestingly I very much agree with the characterfullness of the Great Master - did you happen to catch the KS of the guy who designed that? He ran his own and has a distinctly charming/characterful skill with designing models. AGM gave an update/mention of it on their KS whilst it was running - its over now but here's the line
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/warploqueminiatures/arcworlde-the-fantasy-skirmish-wargame

**RiTides**

Overread wrote:
Interestingly I very much agree with the characterfullness of the Great Master - did you happen to catch the KS of the guy who designed that? He ran his own and has a distinctly charming/characterful skill with designing models. AGM gave an update/mention of it on their KS whilst it was running - its over now but here's the line
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/warploqueminiatures/arcworlde-the-fantasy-skirmish-wargame

Wow, I just read through the updates on that campaign- the miniatures look really cool! Doesn't look like he'll come close to his delivery target, though, which was this month- but that's to be expected when a campaign funds over 1000% (assuming the creator didn't expect it to, as seems to be the case here).

His candid updates are cool, though... I'll definitely consider picking up some of his miniatures once they're available.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Off topic bit

Actually Arcworlde is not far off target with deliveries set to start towards the end of the month (staggered shipment beginning with the Explorer and the basic ArcWorlde warbands)

The rulebook however is delayed as he's not got enough playtesting of the new rule set done, but a pdf will be provided in the interim

**RiTides**

Ah thanks for that, Orlando. The sculpts look amazing, so it's cool that he contributed to Drake too (or at least, the first Drake campaign).

**Denilsta**

I have been thinking long an hard about this KS, I am only about 75 - 80% happy with the figures I got so far and I am becoming more reluctant to drop more money into it. In fact I am seriously considering eBay in what I have received so far and doing the same again when the second part of my order arrives....I just know I will end up making a significant loss.

**finnan**

Got my first shipment last week, and I started cleaning up and assembling yesterday.

Started with the Rish Dragon. I've assembled worse, but I've assembled better as well. I'm leaving the tail off for now as it'll be really awkward to paint if I glue it on. The wings have tiny contact areas for gluing, and I anticipate the coming off at some point. The wing elbows were a bit shoddy, and I thought there were claws to be stuck on them, but no, just great holes to be filled.
The head went onto the jaw/neck quite well, but I gave up trying to stick on the horns after only one of the larger ones - far, far too small and pretty much impossible to do. I don't really understand why they were cast separately.
The left foreclaw is going to go on today, and I don't see too many problems with that, and that leaves the large chunk of resin to carve out of the body so that the neck can be stuck into place.
It's a cool model, and worth the effort, but it's not for beginners at all.

I've also cleaned up the Formosi, which was fairly quick because it's all metal. However there are egregious gaps to be filled in between the back and the back-fin part, and I've run out of greenstuff, so I need to do a supply run today.

After looking at my order (fairly briefly, it has to be said), I'm pretty happy. I was only really in this for the dragons, so the infantry are a bonus at best, but my goodness they're small. I'm already thinking that paints are going to obliterate the fine detail on them, so it might have to be inks all the way.
I'm not sold on the second kickstarter yet, and while the renders are very nice concepts, some of them are enlarged a lot, and there's no way that all that detail is going to come out of the casting process.

**Overread**

I'd look up painting guides for the Infinity model range, they seem to have a very similar level of detail and fineness to the detailing.

**Nostromodamus**

Less than $1k to go for the KS exclusive!

It's a very nice model too.

**RiTides**

Overread wrote:
I'd look up painting guides for the Infinity model range, they seem to have a very similar level of detail and fineness to the detailing.

I think Infinity models blow most of these away...

**Nostromodamus**

Latest update includes a summary of how the different factions play. Pretty handy for matching an army that fits your playstyle.

**Overread**

Bosephus - The Huntress (unique figure) now unlocked. The Drafaxis is also up for adding from the previous ks; they've also changed his rear tailwings/fan (in response to earlier feedback from KS1 backers).

In addition two new stretch goals are revealed

KS 1 unique hero can be used as one of the Blessed Ones.

**Nostromodamus**

Loving those Blessed Ones, and my wife is a huge fan of the Gargowl.

**Denilsta**

I have finally gotten around to listing my first Drake wave items on eBay tonight....who knows if people win them they may even arrive before there own 1st wave items arrive,

**Overread**

Up to $63K and now at the $82 is the second mighty dragon for the Shi nation. Remember you get a free dragon if you pledge more than $245 (excluding postage costs).

**Nostromodamus**

The Crotalis is AMAZING.

Looking forward to the upcoming Sovereign Nations army box too!

**highlord tamburlaine**

That Crotalis is really tempting me.

I'm not a huge fan of some of their humanoid designs, but I'll give them credit where credit is due- these are some really unique sculpts!

What's the average size of one of the main dragons? I'm assuming since this Crotalis is roughly the same price, he'd make a nice army centerpiece (and should be a similar size to those other dragons).

I want to get those Blessed guys, but you've all got me worried about really thin weapons.

I'm sure I'll get a token bizarre monster or two.

**Nostromodamus**

IIRC the Dragons are all on 80mm bases.

**Overread**

$65K and nearly $66 whilst the elemental for the Shi nation has been unleashed and a hinted greyed out version for their eradicator is being sneak peeked.

**Nostromodamus**

$66k reached, almost to Sefa!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
For those waiting on a "new things only" pledge level, I did the math and incase they don't add one here's another option:

If you pledge for the Shi Army Box ($89), Shi Incursion ($36), Hyecledron ($10), Lom'Optra ($15), Shi Eradicator ($35), Claw of Kyran ($10), Blessed Ones ($20) and Kyran Dragon ($39) that comes to a grand total of $254, which makes you eligible for all the freebie stretch goals and nets you all of the new models (choose the Crotalis Dragon for your free Dragon).

**Overread**

New dragon revealed

**Nostromodamus**

AGM continues to floor me with amazing miniatures!

**Alpharius**

They definitely have amazing renders and concept art - can anyone confirm that they've all translated well into actual miniatures?

**Nostromodamus**

Plenty of folks chimed in with comments that they're happy with what they've got so far.

**RiTides**

Alex C- From what I've seen, there have been mixed reviews. See Denilsta's from this very thread below:

Denilsta wrote:
corgan wrote:
Denilsta wrote:
Unfortunately, the Dragons are the weaker part of the range in my experience with the three I have received.

Rish dragon - resin/plastic body and wings, metal neck and head. The resin armour lacks detail in places and the metal spikes on its chin are a silly things to have separate.

Timor Dragon - all resin/plastic, some real quality control issues on this one with some horrendous mold lines.

Formosi Dragon - all metal apart from resin feet molded into those painfully awful bases they use on the dragons. Not the best miniature position wise.

With the dragons I think it is the smooth skin (lack of scales) which I personally think make them look just a little bit wrong.....and I wish I could remove the bases but I would definitely end up damaging the dragons to re base them.

Could you please give us also your opinion on the human miniatures? I would be interested especially in the Rish "knights"? Sculpting, quality of the material e.t.c. Many thanks!

Ok....I can only comment on the miniatures I have received and remember this is just my opinion, but here goes...

Rish

Rivercrest Swordmen, Overread hit the nail on the head with his comment on the weapons being to thin, my other gripe is the fact the scabbards have 'sunk' into their legs in places. On the whole the quality is actually very good on these if not the most dynamic poses.

Rivercrest Scouts - again nice models but they have the same 'sinking' problem with parts of their bows, boots etc...phasing into their cloaks.

Drak Rider - a very nice model (the best of the Rish...I have 4 of them), but does it have to be in about 14 parts? Again bendy weapon time and not a huge scope to customize them unfortunately.

Princess Acadia - could have been so nice, but there is something wrong with the proportions in the head, neck and chest area...like a pin head on Pamela Anderson's body.

Yeev - nothing wrong with it really, quite a nice model if not super detailed.

Saan

Kaymayuk Warriors - the one with the mask is excellent, the ones without the mask are horrendous.....it's like two different sculptors did them. Head, hairline and poses (shudder).....and again bendy weapon time. The missing masked warrior looks another excellent one.

Kaymayuk Priestess - very small areas to connect the arms, staff is very thin and again slight pin head thing going on...but over all not to bad.

Saan Commander - not the best unfortunately, a helmeted version of one of the badly posed Kaymayuk Warriors....I am not sure why he is wearing huge snow boots.

Corbrulo - A lovely model with a lot of character...if slightly to many bits again.

Power Mark - a personal gripe here, a water based force and they are mounted on very badly scuplted rocks (better suited for the Garrick), the detail is none existent on two sides of the rock base.

Terrax - similar in quality to the to the Yeev, but the arms do not have the best fixing points.

Garrick

Groms - the scupts are fine and bulky, but this is my least favorite force., nothing really wrong with them it's just my personal taste.

Cherek Hunters - the same as the Groms

Cherek Mobi - I get this as a free model (they gave everyone a certain number of free models due to the delays), I did not chose it in the first place as it is one of my least favorite models from the whole range, it just looks goofy.

Great Master - I like it, it just has character, not the most detailed sculpt but still one of my favorites.

Chereck mother - again another free one I would not have picked, it is wrong on so many levels. The concept and the execution are not great, there are two 'baby 'heads on a separate sprues...they are basically round balls about 2mm in diameter.

Unaligned Models

Bastile - the metal is pitted and the weapon is so thin its like its made from tin foil.

Eye of Kyran - small....so small, looks human sized in the 3D image, actually a small goblin sized in reality.

Rakhera - The Demon - the least scary demon every, again smaller than I was expecting.

The Twins - nice, but with no tab and very small contact areas to stand up on I can see issues here.

It may come across that I am being very down on the whole range but that's not really true. AGM are a new company, and I started collecting GW pre-slotta and I have seen some horrible models over the years (Gary Morley I am looking at you) and I am sure they will improve dramatically, it is just technology have moved on a lot in the last 28 years and I think I am spoilt by the likes of Mierce, Forge World, Infinity, confrontation etc....

**Nostromodamus**

And from what I have seen following the comments pretty much all the time I'm awake (and catching up on the ones from when I've slept, I have no life) there's a lot more people happy with them than the 1 or 2 complaints I've seen.

AGM is constantly improving and I'm hoping things can stay positive for this campaign so that both AGM and the backers can come away happy.

**Alpharius**

But are you only seeing what you want to see?