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 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Perkustin wrote:
Not a good idea going OEM, it's a violation of the license using it for a home build (that you're not immediately reselling) so you'll get no support from Microsoft and if the serial number doesn't work, you're boned.

Pay the extra $20 for a boxed retail.

I looked at a computer that has the same stuff as my day-to-day one and it was a little more $200 more. My gaming PC is powerful enough to be very hard to find a retail one of the same level, and it didn't even cost that much. If you have the knowledge you should build. You get support form microsoft for the OS, so that's set.

You only get support if you buy a retail copy. if you buy OEM you would have to lie and provide evidence that you are a MANUFACTURER 'oeM' to get support from microsoft. Also OEM is only ~$20 cheaper, why take the risk?

Sorry, not OEM OS. Was looking at that HDD when I typed that.

Buy a full retail copy of Win7 of course, unless you are ok with less than legal copies which are free, if you are so morally inclined.

And since it would seem you can afford it, legit copy would be the way to go.

 Alexzandvar wrote:

/g/ on 4chan has regular PC threads

NO 4chan is a terrible place, and none whom go there ever return as they once where.

You will need atleast 8GB of RAM. 12 would be better. Get this in atleast 2 RAM chips.
Water cooling is good, but you have to be careful with it.
An I7 Processor will be mandatory. Youll want atleast 4 cores.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Alexzandvar wrote:

/g/ on 4chan has regular PC threads

NO 4chan is a terrible place, and none whom go there ever return as they once where.

You will need atleast 8GB of RAM. 12 would be better. Get this in atleast 2 RAM chips.
Water cooling is good, but you have to be careful with it.
An I7 Processor will be mandatory. Youll want atleast 4 cores.

4chan is where innocence goes to die.

Also 4 cores is so last year. The build I linked has a 6 core CPU, and if Djones wants to shell out an extra $80 he can go with a 4.2GHz 8 core amd CPU(highly recommend if you upgrade your budget at all).

 master of ordinance wrote:

*snip*
An I7 Processor will be mandatory. Youll want atleast 4 cores.

My recent build only has an i5. It does everything I need (skyrim/bioshock/starcraft) all on high settings with no problems. I really don't think that a i7 is needed for most gaming rigs. You would really only need it if you were planning on doing a fair amount of streaming and video editing.

Just my thoughts on that though.

From my limited knowledge would i be correct in saying that the Vishera Proceesor you've selected is an APU Aerethan?

The two new consoles have 8 core APUs instead of quad core CPUs so the selection of a 6 core APU (again from my limited knowledge) for this machine will make it quite future proof. mainly because console games will try out more multi-threading tasks (whatever they are lol) with their 8 core APUs and a 4 core CPU will not be able to keep up. I think the 6 core Vishera is a good compromise.

Do AMD processors have cooling issues? I noticed a place where you've not skimped is the cooler.

i5 has 4 cores, i3 is the one with two afaik.

 master of ordinance wrote:

You will need atleast 8GB of RAM. 12 would be better. Get this in atmost 2 RAM chips.
Water cooling is overhyped and unnecessary for non overclocked systems in climate controlled rooms.
An I7 Processor will be relevant for quite a while and not break the bank at this point. Youll want atleast 4 cores.

Sorry, Didn't quite agree with some of that. The trick to RAM, if you want the biggest bank for the buck, is to find out the max amount the motherboard/processor support, and then divide that by the number of slots on the motherboard. 16GB supported RAM and 4 slots? 4 GB sticks each. 32GB and 4 slots? 8GB sticks. Following your method to the letter gets you 4 sticks of 2GB, and then you have waste if you go for an upgrade later. This way, you always have an upgrade path without having useless RAM left over.

Water cooling is only necessary for people who confuse their computers with their tricked out Honda CRXs. It's not required for normal computers or people who would rather use their computer to do things, rather than as a platform to tinker.

I7s are great, but for a simple gaming computer, not absolutely necessary, however, they'll age well and stay current for the longest out of any processor right now, so it's a good choice.

 Perkustin wrote:
From my limited knowledge would i be correct in saying that the Vishera Proceesor you've selected is an APU Aerethan?

The two new consoles have 8 core APUs instead of quad core CPUs so the selection of a 6 core APU (again from my limited knowledge) for this machine will make it quite future proof. mainly because console games will try out more multi-threading tasks (whatever they are lol) with their 8 core APUs and a 4 core CPU will not be able to keep up. I think the 6 core Vishera is a good compromise.

Do AMD processors have cooling issues? I noticed a place where you've not skimped is the cooler.

AMD processor's don't generally have heat issues that I've ever noticed. That said, OEM heatsinks are usually crap and worth replacing if you intend on trying your hand at taxing them. That and the particluar one I chose adds a nice aesthetic to windowed cases. Certainly something that can be downgraded if Djones wants to, but $40 is hardly breaking the bank.

When I build systems, I try to go as future proof as I can. AMD isn't likely dropping AM3+ sockets anytime soon, so picking a MOBO for that means that $140 should last through a full system overhaul when upgrading CPU and GPU in a few years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree that water cooling is the equivalent to that kid down the street who supes up his '87 honda. It looks cool and all, but unless you are overclocking things all crazy high, it's very much not needed, and a single leak and wreck nearly the whole system.

I would guess watercooling is for people who overclock their CPU to it's breaking point.

Something to bear in mind is that the bulky tubes of a water cooler add yet another concern for case selection.

Soemthing i learned is that If you're in doubt about what size of case you want just go with a 'mid tower', it will fit anything.

Bear in mind that if you want a small case you need the appropriate sized motherboard, cooler and possibly low profile RAM to fit it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX this article about motherboard form factors may be useful.

Video card manufacturers are unfortunately incredibly unhelpful in this regard, you may have to do some research to find out what card will fit what case (and motherboard though this is genrally something one doesn't need to worry about). However in general the size of the card relates to price the most gigundo cards are almost always the most expensive.

 Perkustin wrote:
I would guess watercooling is for people who overclock their CPU to it's breaking point.

Something to bear in mind is that the bulky tubes of a water cooler add yet another concern for case selection.

Soemthing i learned is that If you're in doubt about what size of case you want just go with a 'mid tower', it will fit anything.

Bear in mind that if you want a small case you need the appropriate sized motherboard, cooler and possibly low profile RAM to fit it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX this article about motherboard form factors may be useful.

Video card manufacturers are unfortunately incredibly unhelpful in this regard, you may have to do some research to find out what card will fit what case (and motherboard though this is genrally something one doesn't need to worry about). However in general the size of the card relates to price the most gigundo cards are almost always the most expensive.

It was around the time of 8800GT's(2008ish) that video card lengths got out of hand, and people had to start mounting HDD's in different spots to get them to fit.

As I said earlier in the thread, if you want ATX mini or Mini ITX cases, then it drastically changes the build options and layout. I've not had the opportunity to build one yet, so I don't have any products in mind off the top of my head for those sizes.

ATX full and you can do damn near anything in it, including incubate dragon eggs.

 Aerethan wrote:

 Perkustin wrote:
I would guess watercooling is for people who overclock their CPU to it's breaking point.

Something to bear in mind is that the bulky tubes of a water cooler add yet another concern for case selection.

Soemthing i learned is that If you're in doubt about what size of case you want just go with a 'mid tower', it will fit anything.

Bear in mind that if you want a small case you need the appropriate sized motherboard, cooler and possibly low profile RAM to fit it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX this article about motherboard form factors may be useful.

Video card manufacturers are unfortunately incredibly unhelpful in this regard, you may have to do some research to find out what card will fit what case (and motherboard though this is genrally something one doesn't need to worry about). However in general the size of the card relates to price the most gigundo cards are almost always the most expensive.

It was around the time of 8800GT's(2008ish) that video card lengths got out of hand, and people had to start mounting HDD's in different spots to get them to fit.

As I said earlier in the thread, if you want ATX mini or Mini ITX cases, then it drastically changes the build options and layout. I've not had the opportunity to build one yet, so I don't have any products in mind off the top of my head for those sizes.

ATX full and you can do damn near anything in it, including incubate dragon eggs.

A question, The guys who helped me select my parts strongly recommended i invested in a good power supply (i went for a corsair RM series) that was gold rated. I notice you don't subscribe to that and chose a more budget option why?

I know almost nothing about computer stuff but someday I plan on building a gaming computer so I'll be in your situation.

Here's a link I've found that gives a few "example systems" that have been developed by that community at various price ranges. No idea if those are really the best you can get at those price ranges, but a forum of eggheads gets together and updates them every month so they can't be that bad.

http://www.pcper.com/hwlb

Also, here's a good article about how NOT to do it that might be entertaining:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/12-dangerously-irresponsible-steps-to-building-your-own-pc/

I've only bought the bits, the hard part's still to come

It is alot of fun shopping for the pieces, it's as fun as planning a Heresy Army on forgeworld The guys i was talking to mentioned the familiar compulsion to just constantly buy new parts and accessories for their 'Rigs' and it sounded very familiar to me.

well I found this site and they do builds for you, probably isnt the best prices (vs doing it yourself) but the customer service is awesome

http://www.xoticpc.com/index.html

 Perkustin wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

 Perkustin wrote:
I would guess watercooling is for people who overclock their CPU to it's breaking point.

Something to bear in mind is that the bulky tubes of a water cooler add yet another concern for case selection.

Soemthing i learned is that If you're in doubt about what size of case you want just go with a 'mid tower', it will fit anything.

Bear in mind that if you want a small case you need the appropriate sized motherboard, cooler and possibly low profile RAM to fit it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX this article about motherboard form factors may be useful.

Video card manufacturers are unfortunately incredibly unhelpful in this regard, you may have to do some research to find out what card will fit what case (and motherboard though this is genrally something one doesn't need to worry about). However in general the size of the card relates to price the most gigundo cards are almost always the most expensive.

It was around the time of 8800GT's(2008ish) that video card lengths got out of hand, and people had to start mounting HDD's in different spots to get them to fit.

As I said earlier in the thread, if you want ATX mini or Mini ITX cases, then it drastically changes the build options and layout. I've not had the opportunity to build one yet, so I don't have any products in mind off the top of my head for those sizes.

ATX full and you can do damn near anything in it, including incubate dragon eggs.

A question, The guys who helped me select my parts strongly recommended i invested in a good power supply (i went for a corsair RM series) that was gold rated. I notice you don't subscribe to that and chose a more budget option why?

Honestly, PSU's aren't often going to break anything else in your system. I used a $20 600w PSU from Hong Kong for 4 years on a gaming rig before it finally died. That being said, they are for the most part fairly future proof, so going with a more expensive option isn't like you're wasting money. The one I was going to pick is a step up from this one, at $120 and is gold rated. But often times that money is better spent on the CPU and GPU, IMO.

I am actually curious about something. How do you guess how much power a system will use? What happens if you hook up a supply that's too small?

Just something that's made me wonder for quite a while now, but hasn't bothered me to the point of actually looking it up myself.

It's rare that smaller rated PSU's will refuse to boot up, but when you start putting stress on the system with games and such, the PSU wil fail and shut itself off.

Larger PSU's are able to handle that load and then some.

600-650w is enough power for standard systems like the one I designed here, even if you overclock them a bit.

Oh as a fellow noob to PC building i would like to share one more aspect i found initially confusing. The branding of Video Cards:

Those chrome plated Nvidias with a glowing 'Geforce GTX' and the AMD ones with the red swirls on them are what's called 'reference cards'.

Reference cards are hard to come by and are presumably more expensive. Video cards will most likely be made by a different company but still put out the same, and usually slightly better, performance. They contain the quoted GTX/R-series/whatever GPU just in a different package, soem even come with two GPUs of the same type.

ASUS, Sapphire, MSI, EVGA and Gigabyte are all well respected names that i know of.

The same goes for AMD/Intel motherboards, they aren't made by AMD or Intel but neither of those companies actually make motherboards. 'AsRock' are a motherboard manufacturer that also has a good rep.

I am going to copy and paste my current wishlist that I am saving for.

case: Silverstone RV02 $185
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163213
OR
case: Antec 900 $95
http://www.amazon.com/Antec-Nine-Hundred-Black-Computer/dp/B000I5JHB0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391224447&sr=8-1&keywords=antec+900+v3

note: I like the design of the RV02 but I also am using the 900 now on my current desktop as well as on one of my servers. It's a tried and true design and while I tend to vote moderate to liberal, when it comes to buying PC hardware I am deeply conservative so will probably get the 900.

PSU: Corsair 860 watt $170
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139044

motherboard: Asus Z87 Pro $190
http://www.amazon.com/Asus-Z87-PRO-1150-Motherboard/dp/B00CRJSXR4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391225248&sr=8-1&keywords=asus+z87+pro
OR
motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-OC $400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128596

note: The Gigabyte board might be too over the top, but the high end capacitors are a strong selling point for me. My house has very unreliable, spiky power and while I do have a UPS to buffer it, I tend to fall on the side of better caps. If I had more reliable power I'd get the cheaper board. I may anyway.

RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws $160
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231568

CPU:
Core I7-4770K $320
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-4770K-Quad-Core-Processor-BX80646I74770K/dp/B00CO8TBQ0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391224308&sr=8-1&keywords=core+i7

HDD:Crucial 240GB SSD $150
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-2-5-Inch-adapter-Internal-CT240M500SSD1/dp/B00BQ8RM1A/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1389962643&sr=8-4&keywords=SSD

GPU: TBD*

Optical: LG Blu-Ray Burner $68
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136250

For me the GPU is TBD because I am not buying today, I am buying in 2 or maybe 3 months when I finish saving up enough. At that time the new Nvidia GPU's may or may not be out. If I were buying today, I'd get a 4gb 770 GTX which is in the $400 neighborhood. Do not get a video card with less than 3gb of VRAM, there are games right now that will eat all of that, and I prefer to spend a lot of money and make it last a long time than constantly spending somewhat less money.

So right now the most expensive build with a 770 GTX would be $1,853, the slightly less expensive build will be $1,553. There are some additional corners that can be cut that I probably won't choose to, but I could re-use my existing desktop case, SSD, and power supply and save about $420, I could skip the optical drive and save $70 (who uses optical drives anyway anymore?)... but I sort of like the idea of having my old computer still complete, even though it's totally unnecessary. We'll see how well my patience holds up against my revenue generation.

Note this build will only have 120gb of storage, which is adequate for Windows and some applications. I don't need more because I have a RAID array in my current desktop for my games which will be coming over to any new build, but if you don't then you also may want to budget another $80 or so for a hard drive to install games to (or get a larger SSD).

I do not buy AMD products, be they CPU's or ATI video cards. I have had bad experiences with them in the mid-90s that I still hold a grudge for to this day. A more rational man might let time heal that wound and save some money there.

 LordofHats wrote:
-Ignore product reviews on New Egg/Tiger Direct. People there will complain about the sillist things and there aren't many reviews so the results get twisted (someone complained a mother board was blue). Use other dedicated review sites.

I'm quoting this to re-iterate it. This is especially true when looking at hard drives. You probably can't find a single common consumer hard drive on Newegg that has more than 4 eggs with at least 2 reviews per page saying they got a DOA drive. Ignore those; you have to or you'll never be able to pick a drive, your drive will almost certainly be fine regardless of which model you get or where you get it.

 FirePainter wrote:
My recent build only has an i5. It does everything I need (skyrim/bioshock/starcraft) all on high settings with no problems. I really don't think that a i7 is needed for most gaming rigs. You would really only need it if you were planning on doing a fair amount of streaming and video editing..

I concur with this as well. My wishlist build has an i7 because I do some 3d modelling and video work, but for pure gaming an i5 is more that adequate.

When I got my new PC last July this is what I ended up with:

Case: Corsair Obsidian 800D Black Full Tower Case
CPU: Intel i7-3930K LGA2011 3.2GHz Six Core
Cooling: Corsair Hydro Series H100i Liquid Cooler for CPU
Motherboard: Asus RAMPAGE IV Extreme Socket 2011
Memory (RAM): Corsair 16GB Dominator Platinum 2400Mhz Quad Channel DDR3
Video Card: 2 x Nvidia TITAN 6GB GDDR3 in SLI
Hard Drive 1: Intel 520 Series 120GB SSD
Hard Drive 2: Western Digital 2TB Caviar Green
Optical Drive: 22X DVDRW Drive Black SATA
Power Supply: Corsair AX1200i Modular 1200 Watt 80 Plus Platinum

It runs pretty much anything. My 3dMark results are frightening.

Those TITANs must have been expensive.

It's OK, the Australian minimum wage is like, $400 an hour USD, which is why the GW embargo is fair

 daedalus wrote:
Those TITANs must have been expensive.

And worth every fething cent!

*gazes lovingly at the two 'GEFORCE GTX' logos glowing inside his case*

It's nice when you run, say, Tomb Raider at 100% max settings with TressFX on and the TressFX causes such a massive frame rate hit that you go down to... 90fps.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
Those TITANs must have been expensive.

And worth every fething cent!

*gazes lovingly at the two 'GEFORCE GTX' logos glowing inside his case*

It's nice when you run, say, Tomb Raider at 100% max settings with TressFX on and the TressFX causes such a massive frame rate hit that you go down to... 90fps.

*Drool*

Reference cards are the designers official layout for a card. They don't really sell them as AMD and nVidia don't actually manufacture cards. Companies like EVGA and Asus then take that reference card, make their own tweaks to them such as changing the outputs, overclocking specs, swapping fans and heatsinks.

Basically nVidia and AMD do all of the R&D heavy lifting, then the manufacturers buy those specs to use on cards and change them up(otherwise there would be very little competition in the market).

And it is those little tweaks that can make or break a card. The EVGA 8800GT 512MB was king of cards for a long time, even after 9800's came out. I miss that card dearly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For those interested, looks like Newegg takes 24 hours before making a wish list public.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=18677114

So my current PC has this.

Pentium(r) Dual-Core CPU E5700 3.00GHz.
ATI Radeon HD4600 1gb

Not that crazy, I know. What I'm wondering is, would it do me any good to buy a more powerful video card, or do I really need to upgrade my processor in order to get anything more.

That CPU is pretty dated and won't stand up well to modern stuff.

That being said, your GPU is even more dated and is the more urgent of the 2 IMO.

A coworker says these are pretty solid.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-770

Thinking about picking one of these up now, and working towards the rest at a later date.

While they are good cards, they are also $350 cards. Without knowing the rest of your setup, I'm inclined to say they would be wasted as simple upgrades in an older system, which basing on your current card I'm guessing is at least 4 years old.

 Aerethan wrote:
While they are good cards, they are also $350 cards. Without knowing the rest of your setup, I'm inclined to say they would be wasted as simple upgrades in an older system, which basing on your current card I'm guessing is at least 4 years old.

Well if I build a new machine later this summer, I can just swap this one into the new one, correct? So I get a little more life out of my current machine, and then have a decent card for my new one.