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2014/02/16 02:13:11
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
See now, I am actually fine with certain types/sizes of zoo/aquarium for the various animals... I mean, often times, this is the ONLY way we'll get that select percentage of children interested enough in the field to graduate school and go on to college and study the stuff.
I do agree that dolphins/orcas/whales/seals/sea lions should not be a part of any "show" as a special attraction, and that all enclosures should be of appropriate size to the creatures mass/size, but not so large that they will be unviewable by the public.
All that said, I haven't looked very deeply at Sea Shepherd, but they do at least seem MARGINALLY better than Greenpeace and a couple other orgs out there.
2014/02/16 02:16:53
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Corpsesarefun wrote: Well you're hunting a species that's anywhere near extinction you probably aren't being sustainable...
It's not the 20's anymore. Norway, one of the largest hunters out there today, harvests solely Minke Whales. A type of Whale rated as "No Concern" in terms of endangerment. They generally harvest about 500 a year, with a population in the N. Atlantic of over 100,000.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/16 02:21:00
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Corpsesarefun wrote: Which would be fine if it all whaling targeted "Least Concern" species, I'm looking at you Japan.
Japanese qouta's are for 935 Minke whales, 50 Humpback, and 50 Fin whales a year. Fin whales are the only one not of "Least Concern", and they only end up taking 1 or 2 a year. More are killed by being rammed by ships every year then Japan.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/16 02:31:07
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Yes... that is the limit they put on their whaling activities. They usually don't even meet it.
So they claim. Just because there is a limit on when you can hunt certain animals and how many you can hunt doesn't mean people stick to those rules.
I would be fine with the idea that evolution should be their defense against us except that evolution doesn't work faster than our hunger/industrialization. Our greed has outpaced evolution/nature in what it can provide us; we are stripping natural resources, in this case food, faster than it can be adequately replaced, naturally. Most of these countries claim this is a tradition, which is debatable, but that doesn't make it all of the sudden OK.
I am against the keeping of animals in such conditions as those found in zoos/seaparks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/16 06:13:25
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2014/02/16 06:18:40
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Medium of Death wrote: Japan/Norway/Iceland don't have the balls to treat the Sea Shepard in the same way as Somali Pirates because they don't kill people and the backlash would only vilify them further on this issue.
djones520 wrote: I also subscribe to the school that if nature intended species to survive extinction, they'd evolve to do so. Even if that evolution led to becoming a source of meat for us. Cows certainly don't have to worry about going extinct anytime soon.
I don't know. Most people now don't really remember or care when the French government had the original "Rainbow Warrior" ship sunk with loss of life to those on board.
Yes... that is the limit they put on their whaling activities. They usually don't even meet it.
So they claim. Just because there is a limit on when you can hunt certain animals and how many you can hunt doesn't mean people stick to those rules.
This is basically the same logic behind chemtrails. Please use better logic than chemtrail and lizard-people conspiracy theorists.
How about illegal slaughtering of elephants for ivory? There are laws against these kind of things but people still do them. Just because a country is saying "We have laws and regulations in effect to keep these things from happening" doesn't mean everyone is following those laws and regulations.
Hell, I grew up out in the country until I was 24, being 36 now, with a stepfather who was an avid hunter and I can tell you I knew when hunting season was and when people poached deer in the area. So, as I said, just because there is a limit on when you can hunt certain animals and how many you can hunt doesn't mean people stick to those rules or laws.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/02/16 06:44:53
I'm back!
2014/02/16 07:29:37
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Yes... that is the limit they put on their whaling activities. They usually don't even meet it.
So they claim. Just because there is a limit on when you can hunt certain animals and how many you can hunt doesn't mean people stick to those rules.
This is basically the same logic behind chemtrails. Please use better logic than chemtrail and lizard-people conspiracy theorists.
How about illegal slaughtering of elephants for ivory? There are laws against these kind of things but people still do them. Just because a country is saying "We have laws and regulations in effect to keep these things from happening" doesn't mean everyone is following those laws and regulations.
Hell, I grew up out in the country until I was 24, being 36 now, with a stepfather who was an avid hunter and I can tell you I knew when hunting season was and when people poached deer in the area. So, as I said, just because there is a limit on when you can hunt certain animals and how many you can hunt doesn't mean people stick to those rules or laws.
I assume you can provide evidence that they're poaching whales?
2014/02/16 09:05:09
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Medium of Death wrote: Briefly; I was never a fan of "Whale Wars" but I actually think the work that "Sea Sheppard" do is fairly interesting and justified. I quite enjoyed this next film.
Whereas I think we should use Sea Shepard boats as ASM practice targets.
2014/02/16 10:17:32
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Medium of Death wrote: Briefly; I was never a fan of "Whale Wars" but I actually think the work that "Sea Sheppard" do is fairly interesting and justified. I quite enjoyed this next film.
Whereas I think we should use Sea Shepard boats as ASM practice targets.
It's hardly necessary when they sink their own quite ably.
2014/02/16 11:09:04
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
How about illegal slaughtering of elephants for ivory? There are laws against these kind of things but people still do them. Just because a country is saying "We have laws and regulations in effect to keep these things from happening" doesn't mean everyone is following those laws and regulations.
I have it on good authority that the population of elephants is increasing rapidly, despite poaching.
Besides, that poaching is taking place on the same continent that serves human meat in hotels, has roving bands of Christians slaughtering Muslims, and more revolutions than post Soviet Eastern Europe. Africa is a problem of epic proportions.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
2014/02/16 11:53:03
Subject: Re:The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Not to mention the whole people poach deer all the time! is a silly argument. Some poach yes, but the VAST majority of people follow the law and hunt to the letter.
That is the exact argument anti gun crowds use to try and make themselves feel better. People are killed with assault style weapons!!! Ar15s are EVIL!
Right..... Because less than 1% of deaths by guns is caused by the ar15 .....and they include accidental shootings in there as well.
The Cove - I'm pretty sure a lot of their information is skewed at best. You can find plenty of videos showing evidence against their findings.
2014/02/16 12:27:28
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Corpsesarefun wrote: Which would be fine if it all whaling targeted "Least Concern" species, I'm looking at you Japan.
Japanese qouta's are for 935 Minke whales, 50 Humpback, and 50 Fin whales a year. Fin whales are the only one not of "Least Concern", and they only end up taking 1 or 2 a year. More are killed by being rammed by ships every year then Japan.
Well, by your logic they should just evolve themselves some wings and fly over those massive ships! Stupid things! If they weren't in the water then we wouldn't keep hittin' em, gosh darnit!
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"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..."
2014/02/16 14:57:20
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Medium of Death wrote: Japan/Norway/Iceland don't have the balls to treat the Sea Shepard in the same way as Somali Pirates because they don't kill people and the backlash would only vilify them further on this issue.
Costa Rica says differently. During the filming of Sharkwater, they had an altercation with a shark fishing boat in which the shark fishers were in fear for there lives because they're convinced Sea Sheperd was attempting to kill them and sink their vessel.
Watson is actually under Red Notice from Interpol for skipping bail on the navigational restrictions violation resulting from the incident.
His Red Notice for Japan actually states "Life and Health" as the main violations.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/16 15:00:08
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Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
2014/02/16 15:20:42
Subject: Re:The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
1979: A Sea Shepherd vessel rams the whaling vessel “Sierra”, causing considerable damage.
“Sierra” survives attack.
1980: The IWC at its meeting in Brighton, United Kingdom, assigns high-level protection to two
Canadian Government delegates after Watson threatened to kill them for voting against a
moratorium on sperm whales. Delegates given Royal Canadian Mounted Police protection until
their return home to Canada.
1980: The “Sierra” is sunk in Lisbon harbour. Sea Shepherd claims responsibility. Investigation
shows limpet mines used to blow up the vessel.
1981: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the sinking of the two whaling vessels, Ibsa I and
Ibsa II, in the Spanish harbour of Viga.
1986: Sea Shepherd attempts to stop Faroe Islands pilot whale harvest. Using rifles, Sea
Shepherd activists shoot at Faroe Islands police in an attempt to sink their rubber dinghies. The
vessel “Sea Shepherd” was ordered to leave Faroese territorial waters. The police report of 7
October 1986 states: “One of the rubber dinghies was attacked directly by a “Speed Line” line
rifle. The attack … endangered the lives of the police crewmembers ... and signal flares
containing phosphorous was thrown at the police. At a later stage the Sea Shepherd used “toads”
(rotating iron spikes, pointed and sharp at both ends) against the rubber dinghies … petrol was
poured over the side of the ship and signal flares were thrown from the “Sea Shepherd” in an
attempt to set the petrol on fire.”
1986: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the sinking of two whaling vessels in Reykjavik,
Iceland, and for malicious damage to a whaling station. (This act of violence was carried out after
Iceland stopped whaling in line with the IWC moratorium on commercial whaling.) Attack
carried out by Sea Shepherd members Rodney A. Coronado and David Howitt. (Coronado linked
to Animal Liberation Front and arrested eight years later by United States FBI for his part in an
ALF attack on Michigan State University research laboratory. Charges included use of an
explosive device, theft and arson.)
1991: A US crew member on a Mexican fishing vessel, reports that Sea Shepherd, some of whose
crew were armed with rifles, rammed his vessel causing considerable damage.
1992: Sea Shepherd makes unsuccessful attempts at ramming three Costa Rican fishing vessels.
In a written complaint to the local authorities the fishermen report that the Sea Shepherd crew
shot at them with bullets containing a red substance, hitting two of them and causing them great
pain.
1992: Sea Shepherd makes unsuccessful attempt at scuttling the whaling and fishing vessel
“Nybræna” at her moorings in the Lofoten Islands, northern Norway. Attack committed by Paul
Watson, girlfriend Lisa DiStefano and one other Sea Shepherd member. Watson later states: “The
scuttling of the Nybræna was not a terrorist or criminal act. We were responsible for removing an
instrument of death and destruction without causing death or injury.” Charges laid against
Watson, who fails to turn up in court. Watson convicted in absentia and sentenced to 120 days in
prison.
1993: Paul Watson orders the crew on board the Sea Shepherd vessel “Edward Abbey” (formerly
US Navy) to open cannon fire at a Japanese fishing vessel. Sea Shepherd crew do not carry out
the order, but instead fire a shot across the bow of the Japanese vessel. The Japanese vessel does
not stop. (Recorded by Yorkshire Television Documentary “Defenders of the Wild – Ocean
Rider”.)
1993: Paul Watson claims in an open letter to the people of Norway that Sea Shepherd has sunk
eight ships and rammed and damaged a further six vessels. In the same letter, he states: “The Sea
Shepherd Conservation Society is a law abiding organization. We rigidly adhere to and respect
the laws of nature or lex natura. We hold the position that the laws of ecology take precedence
over the laws designed by nation states to protect corporate interests … the smell of guilt is
already a stench in the nostrils of God.”
1993: Federal Grand Jury in Michigan State hands down five-count indictment against Coronado
for illegal use of explosives, extortion, threats to interfere with interstate commerce and interstate
transportation, to commit arson, theft and destruction of government property and for receiving
stolen property. Indictments stem from February 1992 fire-bombing of Michigan State University
in East Lancing. Coronado involved in sinking two whaling vessels in Iceland in 1986.
1994: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the unsuccessful attempt at scuttling the combined
minke whaling and fishing vessel “Senet” at her moorings in Gressvik. The vessel was salvaged,
but the water had caused considerable damage. Paul Watson tells Norwegian newspaper
Dagbladet on January 26 that former US navy “Seal” commandos took part in attack on the Senet.
“Certainly these men are trained to kill, but they are also well disciplined and respect my orders,”
he told the newspaper.
1994: Sea Shepherd loses observer status at the International Whaling Commission. IWC
Secretary, Ray Gambell, declares that the IWC and all its member states ardently condemn Sea
Shepherd’s acts of terrorism.
1994: US National Fisheries Institute asks for investigation into Sea Shepherd. “The recent
alleged actions against Norwegian fishing vessels constitute a clear case of piracy,” it says in a
letter to former US IWC Commissioner James Baker. “Acts of violence against fishermen of any
nation cannot be tolerated. Their safety and livelihood could be threatened unless US officials
vigorously condemn violence on the high seas.”
1997: Paul Watson arrested at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam, Netherlands, for the 1992
attempted scuttling of the Norwegian combined whaling and fishing vessel “Nybræna”. Arrested
by Dutch police after Interpol issues warrant. Serves 80 days in prison in the Netherlands, the
equivalent of the necessary two-thirds of the 120-day prison sentence handed down by Norway.
2002: Watson tells Animal Rights 2002 Conference in Washington DC that if a person dies from
one of his actions, he would consider it “collateral damage”. He believes it is not possible to
“commit violence against non-sentient objects. Property damage is not violence.”
Corpsesarefun wrote: Which would be fine if it all whaling targeted "Least Concern" species, I'm looking at you Japan.
Japanese qouta's are for 935 Minke whales, 50 Humpback, and 50 Fin whales a year. Fin whales are the only one not of "Least Concern", and they only end up taking 1 or 2 a year. More are killed by being rammed by ships every year then Japan.
Well, by your logic they should just evolve themselves some wings and fly over those massive ships! Stupid things! If they weren't in the water then we wouldn't keep hittin' em, gosh darnit!
Maybe the should. I'm just pointing out that whaling is hardly being done in an unsustainable way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/16 15:21:20
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/16 19:09:09
Subject: Re:The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
KingCracker wrote: The Cove - I'm pretty sure a lot of their information is skewed at best. You can find plenty of videos showing evidence against their findings.
KingCracker wrote: The Cove - I'm pretty sure a lot of their information is skewed at best. You can find plenty of videos showing evidence against their findings.
Thanks for posting them.
Minke whale population in the southern hemishphere is about 700,000. The Japanese harvest about 900 a year. That in itself is an absolutely negligible number, about a tenth of a percent. Take a look at deer for example. In Michigan, the population is estimated to be around 1.9 million. The annual harvest due to hunting is around 400,000. Or about 20%. Predation on a species of animal can be much higher then are currently taken with whales, and the species would still be sustainable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/16 19:50:08
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/16 20:52:21
Subject: Re:The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
We're a virus mutation away from full extinction, sooner or later, then the world can repopulate the niches we've made vacant with new and exciting species, although hopefully without ever again producing something so utterly douche-like as the human being.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/16 21:09:36
2014/02/16 22:56:01
Subject: Re:The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: We're a virus mutation away from full extinction, sooner or later, then the world can repopulate the niches we've made vacant with new and exciting species, although hopefully without ever again producing something so utterly douche-like as the human being.
Come now, it's not all bad. We invented deep-fried Twinkies, after all.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2014/03/01 03:57:26
Subject: Re:The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
(CNN) -- SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment is requesting the U.S. Department of Labor investigate the conduct of employee Lara Padgett, alleging she violated the ethics code for government employees.
Padgett is an Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) agent who investigated SeaWorld for safety violations after the death of Dawn Brancheau, a veteran trainer killed by a 12,000-pound orca named Tilikum in 2010.
As a result of some of Padgett's findings, OSHA determined SeaWorld violated the Occupational Safety and Health Act, saying it exposed its workers to a "known hazard" in the workplace.
OSHA fined SeaWorld and restricted the interaction between trainers in the water with the killer whales, a decision that SeaWorld has appealed.
In a 228-page complaint filed Thursday, SeaWorld said it has obtained information showing Padgett is biased against the aquatic park and accused her of engaging in cronyism with the producers of the documentary, "Blackfish," produced by Magnolia Pictures and acquired by CNN Films last year.
The film explores the concept of keeping killer whales in captivity for entertainment. It set off a national debate resulting in significant backlash for SeaWorld.
SeaWorld has long called "Blackfish" one-sided and claimed it is the product of animal activists.
A spokesman for the Department of Labor's inspector general said the office had received the complaint but could issue no further comment. Attempts to reach Padgett were not immediately successful Friday.
Department of Labor spokesman Jesse Lawder said OSHA referred the matter to the inspector general in January, immediately after allegations first surfaced, and that the agency is awaiting the results of that investigation.
In the complaint, SeaWorld alleges Padgett attended the 2013 Sundance Film Festival with "Blackfish" producers and accepted lodging free of charge.
SeaWorld provided CNN with several purported photos of Padgett, lifted from what appear to be her personal social media accounts, showing the federal employee in various photos with the film's cast and crew -- including a picture of the group in a "Charlie's Angels" pose, complete with air guns, at the film's premiere in New York.
The company also accused Padgett of disclosing confidential information.
"Blackfish" associate producer Tim Zimmermann asked to borrow a witness' thumb drive and was subsequently seen working with Padgett on a laptop computer, the complaint says.
The witness then found new documents related to OSHA's investigation on the drive after it was returned -- documents, the complaint states were clearly labeled as SeaWorld trade secrets. The complaint does not identify the witness.
Zimmermann told CNN no confidential documents were shared with him.
"I have no idea what to make of these accusations," he said. "Lara Padgett never shared documents with 'Blackfish.' There are no documents in the film."
What's more, Padgett was not invited to Sundance by the "Blackfish" crew, Zimmermann said. She stayed in the house where the crew stayed for a few nights due to a lodging shortage in the area, but she "came on her own dime," he said.
" 'Blackfish' does not have any, did not use any confidential documents," Zimmermann said. "We obviously knew who she was. We tried to interview her, but ... all of OSHA declined to participate."
He added, "Any feelings she had on SeaWorld, it was on her own."
Government employees are prohibited from divulging trade secrets. They face imprisonment, fines or termination if found in violation.
"We believe that this conduct demonstrates that she was influenced by improper considerations, and failed to bring the appropriate objectivity, in the investigation of the death of whale trainer Dawn Brancheau," the complaint states.
"SeaWorld further believes that Ms. Padgett's disclosure of confidential information and other conduct reflect an intense bias and a desire to assist those in the animal rights community who have publicly, and for many years, demonstrated a desire to damage SeaWorld as a viable business."
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