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2014/02/15 22:04:05
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
After watching Blackfish last year, when it was on BBC4, it really opened my eyes to the level of disinformation that Seaworld has been pedaling. I wasn't particularly keen on Zoos/Aquariums in general, but that revelation really just angered me. After watching that I became aware of "The Cove" and how it was a pretty disturbing and upsetting but overall an interesting documentary.
The Cove - Contains graphic images of animal cruelty.
I know this documentary is pretty old (2009) but the issue still exists today. The documentary focuses around "The Cove" and the wikipedia summary explains the film in a much more concise way than I ever could.
The film follows former dolphin trainer and former Sea Shepherd activist Ric O'Barry's quest to document the dolphin hunting operations in Taiji, Wakayama, Japan. In the 1960s, O'Barry helped capture and train the five wild dolphins who shared the role of "Flipper" in the hit television series of the same name. The show, very popular, fueled widespread public adoration of dolphins, influencing the development of marine parks that included dolphins in their attractions. After one of the dolphins, in O'Barry's opinion, committed a form of suicide in his arms by closing her blowhole voluntarily in order to suffocate, O'Barry came to see the dolphin's captivity and the dolphin capture industry as a curse, not a blessing. Days later, he was arrested off the island of Bimini, attempting to cut a hole in the sea pen in order to set free a captured dolphin.[7] Since then, according to the film, O'Barry has dedicated himself full-time as an advocate on behalf of dolphins around the world.
After meeting with O'Barry, Psihoyos and his crew travel to Taiji, Japan, a town that appears to be devoted to dolphins and whales. In a nearby, isolated cove, however, surrounded by wire fences and "Keep Out" signs, an activity takes place that the townspeople attempt to hide from the public. In the cove, a group of Taiji fishermen engage in dolphin drive hunting. The film states that the dolphin hunt is, in large part, motivated by the tremendous revenue generated for the town by selling some of the captured dolphins, female bottlenose dolphins, to aquariums and marine parks and killing the majority of the rest. The dolphins that are not sold into captivity are then slaughtered in the cove and the meat is sold in supermarkets. According to the evidence presented in the film, the local Japanese government officials are involved in the hiding of the hunting, and the Japanese public is not fully aware of the hunt and the marketing of dolphin meat. The film states that the dolphin meat contains dangerously high levels of mercury and interviews two local politicians, Taiji City Councilmen, who have, for that reason, advocated the removal of dolphin meat from local school lunches.
Attempts to view or film the dolphin killing in the cove are physically blocked by local police and the Japanese local government who treat the visitors with open intimidation, derision, and anger. Foreigners who come to Taiji, including The Cove's film crew, are shadowed and questioned by local police. In response, together with the Oceanic Preservation Society, Psihoyos, O'Barry, and the crew utilize special tactics and technology to covertly film what is taking place in the cove.[8] The film also reports on Japan's alleged "buying" of votes of poor nations in the International Whaling Commission. The film indicates that while Dominica has withdrawn from the IWC, Japan has recruited the following nations to its whaling agenda: Cambodia, Ecuador, Eritrea, Guinea-Bissau, Kiribati, Laos, and the Republic of the Marshall Islands. This is not entirely accurate, however, as Ecuador has been a strong opponent of whaling.[9][10] At the end of the film, O'Barry marches into a meeting of the Commission carrying a TV showing footage of the Taiji dolphin slaughter. O'Barry walks around the crowded meeting room displaying the images until he is escorted from the room.
The thing that angers me the most is that this is essentially a pointless and very harmful cycle that is of no benefit to the world.
The general ineffectiveness of the IWC was a facepalm realisation that also irked me greatly.
The concept of tradition or culture in harming these highly intelligent creatures is just baffling and the fact that they get to skirt internationally recognised laws is a disgrace.
Briefly; I was never a fan of "Whale Wars" but I actually think the work that "Sea Sheppard" do is fairly interesting and justified. I quite enjoyed this next film.
Part of me thinks that it's perhaps a bit extreme to get so uptight about Whales, Dolphins and other intelligent animals when so many people die daily for various preventable reasons. Another part of me thinks that if we don't act to stop this kind of mistreatment that we might loose these animals forever and that's worth getting riled up about.
What say you Dakka? Have you seen it? What did you think? Is tradition really enough of an excuse and does it hold water today?
I have seen both. And I do have problems with holding such dangerous animals in captivity, I do think that tradition does hold weight. Look how often we americans justify cutting down thousands of trees a year, killing millions of turkeys, pigs, or cows just because it is tradition.
You are also in some cases removing a big industry from a town. And dont believe the "Its not tradtion, i never heard of it" clip from the cove. They are asking people from the city. If I never watched "Swamp Wars" I would not have known anything about croc hunting.
Now Entertainment is another thing.
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2014/02/15 22:12:05
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Don't like seaworld? That's cool. I just hate it when people are dicks about things.
I personally don't care. We've been exploiting animals for tens of thousands of years. It's why we are all alive today. At least these guys, we're not chopping up and turning into sushi.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/15 22:44:30
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
djones520 wrote: Don't like seaworld? That's cool. I just hate it when people are dicks about things.
What do you mean about being dicks about things? Like pointing out that they (Seaworld) routinely lie and that they themselves are dicks?
I personally don't care. We've been exploiting animals for tens of thousands of years. It's why we are all alive today.
So we should never change, never move forward, just do what we've always done? We've made animals extinct through ignorance, surely knowingly doing it is worse?
At least these guys, we're not chopping up and turning into sushi.
djones520 wrote: I personally don't care. We've been exploiting animals for tens of thousands of years. It's why we are all alive today. At least these guys, we're not chopping up and turning into sushi.
Not caring about bad things is a great way to not solve problems.
I find it pretty funny that your sense of "hate it when people are dicks about things" is directed to people trying to stop horrible things rather than the people doing horrible things.
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2014/02/15 22:46:43
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
No, like getting all Sea Shepherd up in this place. I'm still waiting for Japan to man up and treat those guys like the pirates they are.
I also subscribe to the school that if nature intended species to survive extinction, they'd evolve to do so. Even if that evolution led to becoming a source of meat for us. Cows certainly don't have to worry about going extinct anytime soon.
djones520 wrote: I personally don't care. We've been exploiting animals for tens of thousands of years. It's why we are all alive today. At least these guys, we're not chopping up and turning into sushi.
Not caring about bad things is a great way to not solve problems.
I find it pretty funny that your sense of "hate it when people are dicks about things" is directed to people trying to stop horrible things rather than the people doing horrible things.
If you think it's a "bad thing" then you can care all you want. Me, I'm not going to shed any tears over such stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/15 22:47:21
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/15 22:53:02
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Japan/Norway/Iceland don't have the balls to treat the Sea Shepard in the same way as Somali Pirates because they don't kill people and the backlash would only vilify them further on this issue.
djones520 wrote: I also subscribe to the school that if nature intended species to survive extinction, they'd evolve to do so. Even if that evolution led to becoming a source of meat for us. Cows certainly don't have to worry about going extinct anytime soon.
Medium of Death wrote: I think within the context of this thread it's a pretty justified facepalm.
So you think that species should die out because we have a technological advantage? Species should be wiped out just because we can?
It's too bad that evolution never considered dams, dragnets, airports, ships, cars, anthropomorphic non biodegradable waste/pollution etc etc.
I don't think it should die out. I'm just not going to weep like a kid with a skinned knee when it happens. Millions on millions of species of animals have gone extinct throughout the history of this planet. Maybe baring humans, there is not an animal alive on it today that is any more special then any of those that came before, despite some of our personal preferences.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/15 23:08:40
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/15 23:11:57
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Hmm, Dolphins are some of the crueler 'intelligent' animals out there, considering some of the things they've been discovered doing for fun.
But yeah, I do think we should stop some of the extra hunting, but as Djones said, there's been several animals going extinct within our lifetime alone. The only reason some care for this is cause Dolphins, like Panda's are cute.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/15 23:13:32
2014/02/15 23:36:45
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
I refuse to watch either of those because I already don't think Orcas or Dolphins should be kept in captivity for entertainment, and I don't feel the need to bum myself out to reiterate the point.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2014/02/15 23:41:22
Subject: Re:The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
You say that these species have been out evolved (debatable given the technology element involved) and that's how nature works, but then say you don't want to see them die out? I'm not really sure where you're coming from because you seem to be contradicting yourself. The "skinned knee" indicates that this matter is fairly trivial to you and I'm not saying that you should go out your way to be angry about this. But can you not at least acknowledge that perhaps we shouldn't be exploiting and abusing things that we don't have to?
The Dolphin and Whale concept is easier to grasp because of their intelligence and it is relating to the topic at hand. If somebody wants to throw in the plight of another animal that's fine, but I'm not saying that Whales and Dolphins are more important than everything else. It's a significant issue that we as a species should be looking at, among other things.
It's easier to empathise with something that you can relate to. It's the same with Elephants, Gorillas and other intelligent species. I'm not on a "save the cute animal" crusade; I'm quite fond of cephalopods, they demonstrate intelligence but aren't the most attractive or cute looking species, excluding the cuttlefish obviously.
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ouze wrote: I refuse to watch either of those because I already don't think Orcas or Dolphins should be kept in captivity for entertainment, and I don't feel the need to bum myself out to reiterate the point.
Throw in harming children into that mix as well. It is a pretty depressing film but it's totally worth the watch.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/15 23:44:35
I'm on your side here medium and I'd love nothing more then to see that gak die out. But sadly there isn't all that much we can do about it.
Sadly even donations have proven rather useless since any nature preservation charity large enough to even attempt adressing the problem at it's source is either insane or corrupt as balls.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/16 01:08:12
2014/02/16 01:21:10
Subject: Re:The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Medium of Death wrote: I'm quite fond of cephalopods, they demonstrate intelligence but aren't the most attractive or cute looking species, excluding the cuttlefish obviously.
I wonder what the world would have looked like had they not been such a short lived group. I've seen some pretty crazy displays of intelligence from them, even rudimentary tool making.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2014/02/16 01:24:15
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
I love bacon. Pigs may be more intelligent than dogs, but unfortunately they also evolved much tastier.
Whaling is a fairly isolated problem at this point, much like cannibalistic tribes. If you'd really like to go on a crusade to save intelligent creatures, crusade against pork.
Taking a stand against whaling, and you stand with the world. Take a stand against pork, and you stand with religious folks and vegetarians.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
2014/02/16 01:25:11
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Gitzbitah wrote: I love bacon. Pigs may be more intelligent than dogs, but unfortunately they also evolved much tastier.
Whaling is a fairly isolated problem at this point, much like cannibalistic tribes. If you'd really like to go on a crusade to save intelligent creatures, crusade against pork.
Taking a stand against whaling, and you stand with the world. Take a stand against pork, and you stand with religious folks and vegetarians.
See, pigs have evolved themselves into usefulness. We'll never let them go extinct, because we love their flesh to much.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/16 01:41:12
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Gitzbitah wrote: I love bacon. Pigs may be more intelligent than dogs, but unfortunately they also evolved much tastier.
Whaling is a fairly isolated problem at this point, much like cannibalistic tribes. If you'd really like to go on a crusade to save intelligent creatures, crusade against pork.
Taking a stand against whaling, and you stand with the world. Take a stand against pork, and you stand with religious folks and vegetarians.
See, pigs have evolved themselves into usefulness. We'll never let them go extinct, because we love their flesh to much.
That's what makes them so smart!
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
2014/02/16 01:43:46
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Gitzbitah wrote: I love bacon. Pigs may be more intelligent than dogs, but unfortunately they also evolved much tastier.
Whaling is a fairly isolated problem at this point, much like cannibalistic tribes. If you'd really like to go on a crusade to save intelligent creatures, crusade against pork.
Taking a stand against whaling, and you stand with the world. Take a stand against pork, and you stand with religious folks and vegetarians.
See, pigs have evolved themselves into usefulness. We'll never let them go extinct, because we love their flesh to much.
You are aware that humans systematically bred boars into pigs to be tastier? Saying "oh they should just evolve to cope" doesn't work with humans.
2014/02/16 01:46:56
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Gitzbitah wrote: I love bacon. Pigs may be more intelligent than dogs, but unfortunately they also evolved much tastier.
Whaling is a fairly isolated problem at this point, much like cannibalistic tribes. If you'd really like to go on a crusade to save intelligent creatures, crusade against pork.
Taking a stand against whaling, and you stand with the world. Take a stand against pork, and you stand with religious folks and vegetarians.
See, pigs have evolved themselves into usefulness. We'll never let them go extinct, because we love their flesh to much.
You are aware that humans systematically bred boars into pigs to be tastier? Saying "oh they should just evolve to cope" doesn't work with humans.
It's all a form of evolution.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/16 01:50:48
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
2014/02/16 01:59:48
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Gitzbitah wrote: I love bacon. Pigs may be more intelligent than dogs, but unfortunately they also evolved much tastier.
Whaling is a fairly isolated problem at this point, much like cannibalistic tribes. If you'd really like to go on a crusade to save intelligent creatures, crusade against pork.
Taking a stand against whaling, and you stand with the world. Take a stand against pork, and you stand with religious folks and vegetarians.
I would be OK with whaling if it was done in a manner that was ethical (as far as I'm aware though it's not), what's this discrimination on eating animals based on intelligence.
2014/02/16 02:01:49
Subject: The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Gitzbitah wrote: I love bacon. Pigs may be more intelligent than dogs, but unfortunately they also evolved much tastier.
Whaling is a fairly isolated problem at this point, much like cannibalistic tribes. If you'd really like to go on a crusade to save intelligent creatures, crusade against pork.
Taking a stand against whaling, and you stand with the world. Take a stand against pork, and you stand with religious folks and vegetarians.
I would be OK with whaling if it was done in a manner that was ethical (as far as I'm aware though it's not), what's this discrimination on eating animals based on intelligence.
What would you consider "ethical"?
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/16 02:06:51
Subject: Re:The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Like hunting in a way that is environmentally sustainble, make as much use of the animal as possible and killing the animal in a way that is efficient but doesn't cause too much suffering.
2014/02/16 02:08:32
Subject: Re:The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
Cheesecat wrote: Like hunting in a way that is environmentally sustainble, make as much use of the animal as possible and killing the animal in a way that is efficient but doesn't cause too much suffering.
So... you mean like how it's done now then?
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/16 02:12:15
Subject: Re:The Cove, Blackfish and the pointlessness of it all.
I have no idea if that's true or not, like what I hear about shark hunting (I know sharks aren't whales) is that they often cut their fins and toss the rest back in the ocean so it wouldn't surprise me if that kind of brutality was also applied to whales.
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