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2015/04/05 10:52:33
Subject: Promethium Relay Pipes and Void Relay Network - or How to Get the Most Burn for Your Buck!
Lots of artillery protected by shields. TONS of torrent flamers.
I think you are overdoing this. Just because your flamers have torrent, they are still just flamers, good against infantry and not much else.
Which is why there is also 9 bs3 tl st9 ap1 ordnance shots, 4 st9 ap3 large blast barrage ordnance shots and 16 tl st4 ap5 shred barrage shots. Along with 12 spawn and 30 krak nades in transports. Or if you like you can swap those wyverns out for 3 breacher shell medusas with militia training. With 6 void shields and that fire power you will most likely out shoot most people so they will most likely have to close the gap into a wall of flame.
To top it off there are 18 OS units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Its also exceptionally effective against pod and deepstrike shinanigans.
'What's that? You just Deepstruck 5 hammernators into my deployment zone? Here you go, have 12 torrent templates. Oh thats 60 hits, 30 wounds, 5 failed saves. Bye bye hammernators'. Rolled badly? Well there are still 5 more torrent flamer templates where that came from. And if they can do that against terminators, imagine what they do to everything else.
Then there are the heavy flamers (not torrent unfortunately) from the chimeras to add even more burn. That's not counting the immense amount of lasgun shots.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/05 11:46:51
2015/04/06 02:12:27
Subject: Promethium Relay Pipes and Void Relay Network - or How to Get the Most Burn for Your Buck!
Its also exceptionally effective against pod and deepstrike shinanigans.
'What's that? You just Deepstruck 5 hammernators into my deployment zone? Here you go, have 12 torrent templates. Oh thats 60 hits, 30 wounds, 5 failed saves.
Diminishing returns is a bitch.
First volley of 4 templates is 20 hits, but after that, each kill takes 4 hits away from the next volley.
3 groups of 4 templates averages 3.5 unsaved wounds on a T4 2+ save opponent.
On average you're killing 70% of the squad instead of 100% of it.
I'm not saying it's terrible, but the killing power rapidly drops off.
What about splitting that firepower between flamers and plasma, and picking up drop pods from allied blood angels?
Long range shooting to encourage movement toward you, with plasma dropping mid field, with over-lapping fire from the torrent flamers.
What about embarked troops? Do they benefit from the pipes? Since you measure range to and from the hull, I would think that they do gain torrent.
I went to Home Depot and Lowes and bought plastic pipes. They have some that are exactly the same length and size as the aegis and they are modular and can be set up in any way you want. I can take pictures if you like they are good good.
They are cheap too about 50 cents a pipe length. They paint well too.
Its also exceptionally effective against pod and deepstrike shinanigans.
'What's that? You just Deepstruck 5 hammernators into my deployment zone? Here you go, have 12 torrent templates. Oh thats 60 hits, 30 wounds, 5 failed saves.
Diminishing returns is a bitch.
First volley of 4 templates is 20 hits, but after that, each kill takes 4 hits away from the next volley.
3 groups of 4 templates averages 3.5 unsaved wounds on a T4 2+ save opponent.
On average you're killing 70% of the squad instead of 100% of it.
I'm not saying it's terrible, but the killing power rapidly drops off.
What about splitting that firepower between flamers and plasma, and picking up drop pods from allied blood angels?
Long range shooting to encourage movement toward you, with plasma dropping mid field, with over-lapping fire from the torrent flamers.
What about embarked troops? Do they benefit from the pipes? Since you measure range to and from the hull, I would think that they do gain torrent.
-Matt
Good point - hadn't considered that. Still I was using an example of a squad that flamers aren't exactly optimal against so they would gut most other things (barring things like mcs of course). I'm not sure if embarked troops benefit - will have to check when I get home.
2015/04/07 21:46:31
Subject: Promethium Relay Pipes and Void Relay Network - or How to Get the Most Burn for Your Buck!
I think with repressors from FW, Sisters get AV13 bunkers to fire rending heavy flamers out of, which may be the scariest thing to try to get near. Their biggest problem is this denies them the ability to use their only long range firepower due to overcrowding the HS slot.
Now if you allied in IG for more cheap flamers + artillery...
2015/04/08 07:42:52
Subject: Re:Promethium Relay Pipes and Void Relay Network - or How to Get the Most Burn for Your Buck!
Its also exceptionally effective against pod and deepstrike shinanigans.
'What's that? You just Deepstruck 5 hammernators into my deployment zone? Here you go, have 12 torrent templates. Oh thats 60 hits, 30 wounds, 5 failed saves.
Diminishing returns is a bitch.
First volley of 4 templates is 20 hits, but after that, each kill takes 4 hits away from the next volley.
3 groups of 4 templates averages 3.5 unsaved wounds on a T4 2+ save opponent.
On average you're killing 70% of the squad instead of 100% of it.
I'm not saying it's terrible, but the killing power rapidly drops off.
What about splitting that firepower between flamers and plasma, and picking up drop pods from allied blood angels?
Long range shooting to encourage movement toward you, with plasma dropping mid field, with over-lapping fire from the torrent flamers.
What about embarked troops? Do they benefit from the pipes? Since you measure range to and from the hull, I would think that they do gain torrent.
-Matt
Good point - hadn't considered that. Still I was using an example of a squad that flamers aren't exactly optimal against so they would gut most other things (barring things like mcs of course). I'm not sure if embarked troops benefit - will have to check when I get home.
Stick a mega armor warboss in the unit, and they can even move and fire.
The very best user of the void relay network is the corsair eldar. Jet pack troops that can get a flamer on their 5 man basic unit. Jump in front of the the pipes, flame on with the flamers, then fire a shuriken cannon and 3 las blasters, then jetpack back behind the pipes and under the projected bubble. So much win on that
We also need to factor in that it is a versatile piece of 4+ cover(base). The issue is that most flamer weapons are kinda meh that fire from your deployment zone and that is the main issue. Unless they are closing on you your flamers are not going to do much.
Second is that you want your flamers to actually be able to hurt something significant and there are very few that can hurt the big stuff, most of which are vehicle mounted.
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
One answer to getting the most of this could be The Purge detachment from Imperial Armour Vraks. This way your flamers are shred and gets hot. This army list can also take an Ordnance Tyrant and spam artillery mercilessly.
So just a quick example list. Not particularly optimized but should be pretty nasty.
The purge get shred flamers, earthshakers in elites, ability to take 6 man renegade squads, a heavy and 2 specials per 6 man and quad launchers as troops????? WHAT THE HOLY HELL?!?
That is so insanely beyond broken! And I thought R&H was bad! Why have we not heard more about this?
Can they still take militia training? (You aren't going to tell me that they are already bs3 at that price).
2015/04/09 06:32:09
Subject: Promethium Relay Pipes and Void Relay Network - or How to Get the Most Burn for Your Buck!
The purge get shred flamers, earthshakers in elites, ability to take 6 man renegade squads, a heavy and 2 specials per 6 man and quad launchers as troops????? WHAT THE HOLY HELL?!?
That is so insanely beyond broken! And I thought R&H was bad! Why have we not heard more about this?
Can they still take militia training? (You aren't going to tell me that they are already bs3 at that price).
The infantry squads are 10 models (6 renegades w/ lasgun, 2 renegades w/ flamer, and 1 autocannon team).
The Ordnance Tyrant is actually what unlocks the quad launchers as troops and heavy artillery carriages as elites.
Flamers have the shred and gets hot rules in The Purge. However you can not take Mark/Covenant other than nurgle. You also loose ObjSec and all of your fast attack slots. The Purge is very good but loosing all FA slots, ObjSec, and access to the all around better Tz covenant abilities and unlocks is harsh. Winning maelstrom missions is extremely difficult with this sort of army. Also you loose practically all your AA sources in The Purge detachment.
Militia training is available as normal.
2015/04/09 06:59:19
Subject: Promethium Relay Pipes and Void Relay Network - or How to Get the Most Burn for Your Buck!
Ahh I get you with the 10 men now. I tend not to use my FA slots in R&H.
Losing the ability to have cov of tzeentch and 55pt spawn is huge as is loss of OS. OS on units which cost hardly anything and hardly ever run away due to sigils is so much better than OS on practically anything else I've found. Sigils are so stupidly broken at 5pts.
I'm guessing the Command squad costs the same points base as R&H? Making Ordnance Tyrant the same cost as Heretek Magus?
Still quad launchers as troops, earthshakers as elites and shred flamers is verrrry tempting. I'd get krak granades rather than autocannons thrown on them though due to bs2 and get all the quad launchers in one battery to take advantage of multiple barrage and higher casualty rate before LD test. I'd also drop the autocannons on the chimeras for militia training on all 3 rapier batteries - bs2 just isn't worth it for the autocannon upgrades. With those small changes to the list, I honestly can't see a better use of the void relay network. (Shred torrent flamers - wow!)
How does 'gets hot' work on flamers? Do they still shoot then roll for a 1? Or do they roll a 1 and not get to fire at all?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thinking about it - I don't think ob sec will matter that much to your list. After 3 turns of 9 st9 ap3 barrage ordnance large blasts, 12 st5 ap5 barrage blasts, 9 bs3 tl st9 ap1 ordnance shots and 12 bs2 hbs, there shouldn't be many OS units left for your chimera squads to roast.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/09 07:07:10
2015/04/09 07:30:55
Subject: Promethium Relay Pipes and Void Relay Network - or How to Get the Most Burn for Your Buck!
TBH this was not meant as a highly optimized list. Just as a demonstration. IMO the promethium pipes are probably not worth it for this sort of list. The Ordnance Tyrant lets all barrage weapons within 12" of him to fire into close combats even if it hits his own troops. I would rather use the pts for more artillery and zombie or sigil infantry units. However this is a pretty fun list. The idea of torrent chem flamers is awesome.
It is a tough trade; ObjSec Spawn and sigil infantry for massive amounts of firepower. Keep in mind that with the sever lack of AA, low psychic phase presence, and almost total lack of ignore cover there are many armies which will have plenty of units left at the end of the game. Without ObjSec a surviving riptide can contest and a surviving ObjSec unit can take the Objective even if you have your entire army alive. Funny enough the DKoK in the same book are well balanced with the RH due to their Dig In order (+1 cover saves).
2015/04/09 07:53:09
Subject: Promethium Relay Pipes and Void Relay Network - or How to Get the Most Burn for Your Buck!
Firing into combat? Glorious! Karamazovs not such a special snowflake now!
Ok then here is my attempt (assuming ordnance tyrant is 30pts):
Arch demagogue with ordnance tyrant
4 disciples with autocannon and granade launcher
10 renegades with krak and 2 flamers
Chimera with hb & hf
10 renegades with krak and 2 flamers
Chimera with hb & hf
10 renegades with krak and 2 flamers
Chimera with hb & hf
3 quad launchers
2 earthshakers
2 earthshakers
2 earthshakers
3 rapier laser destroyers
Militia training
3 rapier laser destroyers
Militia training
3 rapier laser destroyers
Militia training
Arch demagouge
4 disciples with autocannon and granade launcher
10 renegades with krak and 2 flamers
Chimera with hb & hf
10 renegades with 2 flamers
10 renegades with 2 flamers
10 renegades with 2 flamers
10 renegades with 2 flamers
10 renegades with 2 flamers
3 rapier laser destroyers
Militia training
3 rapier laser destroyers
Militia training
3 rapier laser destroyers
Militia training
Void relay network
Promethian pipe relay
2 void shield generators with 3 shields each
1850pts
With only 4 mobile units it will take great skill to be able to judge when the opponent is weak enough to move the chimeras forward. There is no way I can think of to outshoot such a list or get close enough for assault with 18 shred torrent flamers. It will be as you say - lost on objectives if it loses. Or be losing to FMC builds.
2015/04/09 07:58:44
Subject: Promethium Relay Pipes and Void Relay Network - or How to Get the Most Burn for Your Buck!
Ha - it makes a plasma cannon look like a pea shooter! Unfortunately can't read half of it on my phone though (mainly the future promethian relay rules). Cheers for the link!
