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Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

Getting the most Burn for your Buck

The Promethium Relay from Stronghold Assault has me more than a little excited. As someone who has always loved the unadulturated killing power of the flamer, I was excited about this fortification. When I first saw it, I was so excited. A flurry of conversation broke out in the back of my local game store.

"Well, how useful can it be?" said one naysayer. "It only benefits one single weapon type, and even then, you can't move and shoot it. Plus it can hurt you. The benefits way outweigh the risks."

Pish posh, says I. There's more than enough templates to go around, and I'm more than happy to talk about all of them. Let's go through the armies, book by book, and talk about who can benefit the most from this particular upgrade!

The basics
Your basic pipeline comes in three large sections and four small ones. While no official model has been presented, using an ADL for size comparisons is not unreasonable.

Models close to the pipes can give flamer weapons the Torrent special rule provided they fire it as a Heavy weapon. The weapons that work with this are found on page 56 of the BRB.

The pipe wall grants a cover save, but it if a stray bullet hits the wall, it can potentially harm you!

A conglomerate fortification is available, the Void Relay Network, consisting of multiple Promethium Relays and multiple Void Shield Generators.

Armies
I built a database that shows how many templates each codex has at its disposal, and how many points they pay for them. You can find it as an attachment to this post.

Note that I do not address repeated units. (The tactical squad and the assault terminator squad, specifically.) Refer back to the Space Marine entry for those units approximate values.

In the case of Blood Angels, there may be a tiny point discrepancy between the units while we wait for an updated Blood Angels 'dex, but since that's coming eventually anyway, and very few people still play BA right now, I didn't feel the need to include the additional data. It wouldn't affect the broad conclusions I'm looking to draw here, anyway.

Combi-weapons are tabulated as being only .16 of a template (since other templates can theoretically shoot once every turn in a game which will average 6 turns, and the combi-weapon can only shoot once).

I do not list units which can only take a maximum of a single template. They had to have access to at least 1.16 before I bothered calculating their utility.

Space Marines C or A if Salamanders
The most populous army, Space Marines can swing pretty hard with this particular gem. Although they can't squeeze in as many teardrops as some other armies, with the ability to take Chapter Tactics: Salamanders and twin-link those bad boys, they can dish out some truly heinous damage with the ones they DO have.

Clearly your big moneymakers are the bike squads, or command squads on bikes. With the ability to squeeze in 2-4 flamers, they are also Relentless, which means they will be able to move up and still fire, allowing you to deploy the pipes further up the table, and expanding the bubble of fiery threat. Assault Squads are another cheap way to get a couple of flamers into a minimum sized squad. Although they pay a bit more for it, Legion of the Damned units can take 2.16 templates even at their minimum squad size, and like Bikes are able to move and still shoot.

Blood Angels C
Most of the same options as Marines, but at slightly higher points. While the Death Company can't squeeze very many IN, they are Relentless. A possible build involves Scouts with Camo Cloaks and a Loc Beacon hiding within a ring of pipes near the center of the board. Deep Striking Death Company can bounce off the beacon for no scatter, then throw their hand flamers across the board to soften up enemy infantry units before charging next turn.

Chaos Space Marines A
I was stunned to realize how many templates a C:SM force can lay down. Chosen units can take a whopping 5.16 templates, and Havocs can get another 4.16 themselves. Cultists and Bikers can bring templates in for less than 50 points per template, and the bikers are, once again, Relentless. The Obliterators can alternate between heavy flamers and twin-linked regular flamers, while still being able to move and shoot. Coupled with their ability to use heavy and anti-tank weapons, the Chaos Marines could easily field a list where every unit can drop a template.

Dark Angels D
With slightly fewer options than the Blood Angels, Dark Angels at least pay a smaller amount for the flamers they can take. Unfortunately, one of the big advantages of the Dark Angels is their access to plasma, and you sacrifice that every time you take a template. You could maybe get a little benefit from throwing a Promethium Relay into a Deathwing list.

Another thought were you could see some possible benefit for Dark Angels is the use of the Void Shields. The larger conglomerated fortification benefits them a great deal. A Ravenwing list could gain a great deal of advantage from a network of Void Shields, with skimmers galore putting out huge firepower, and not having to worry about their negligible armor nearly so much. If the points value of this list was high enough, you could add in a couple of flamers and get a little advantage from one of your Promethium Relays.

Eldar D
There's no real reason for a straight Eldar list to try and make a flamer-heavy list. With only two units that can even take them at all, only one of those (Wraithlords) are a viable option. Still, being Relentless and tough as nails, you could theoretically run a list with a Relay centerfield, and two to three Wraithlords camping out around it and hosing down the infantry that are being shot out of their transports by your Wave Serpents. I would stand by this idea as a solid one, but unfortunately it's really the ONLY build I can see with the Eldar codex.

Grey Knights B
Another huge shock to me was how many damn templates the Knights can fit in to a list. One of the few armies that can fit a whole template into every slot, the Grey Knights don't always do it cheap, but by my count can pack more Torrent-able templates into a single FOC than any other army. (It's an army of over 4000 points so you'll never field it, but still...)

Purifiers, Henchmen, and Purgation squads can all bring templates at reasonable prices. Honestly, a terminator heavy list wouldn't go amiss here, however, since they could all get a little benefit as they walk past to their juicier targets downfield. If you've got Henchmen as troops (ala Coteaz) then you've got a tasty setup. A huge wall of pipes, behind which you've got nothing but monkeys and flamer wielding warriors could be a sick set-up. The Jokaero would still retain the ability to use their special weapons as a heavier option if you didn't bring enough anti-vehicle juice. (Although at numbers this thick, they aren't providing any upgrade to their squads at all.)

Imperial Guard A
The Guard can fit the most flamers into a fieldable list, with a mind blowing 85 templates for less than 2000 points! Even their most expensive flamer wielders (Storm Troopers) field them for less than 50 points per template. Company Command Squads and Infantry Platoons can fit them in for less than 25 points per teardrop, which is staggering.

The list that springs to mind with them is the conglomerated fortification, with a HUGE ring of pipes encircling a giant blob of horde guard. Remember that with the Torrent rule, your flamers don't need a fire lane, and can shoot over people's heads, meaning you can fit your special weapon squads safely inside a wall of shielding bodies. Add some Void Shields and some heavy weapons to handle larger enemies (you've got no flamers begging for your attention in the Heavy slot, so why not take some big guns?) and you've got a truly awesome list. The Void Shields help to cover your otherwise squishy Guard, the pipes give you a cover save (even if you get blown up by a fire gout, you've probably brought the wound down to a strength and AP that is survivable) and the Torrent weapons counteract your mediocre BS.

Orks C
Ugh! I wanted Orks to be the MVP here so bad. With Burna Boyz, they can definitely get the cheapest flamers in the game (15 to a unit, at 15 points each). Unfortunately, that's where the fun ends, really. That's the only unit in the codex that can take Torrent-able template weapons that aren't one shot only. Still, it isn't a total loss. You can stick a mega armored Warboss into the unit to give them the ability to move and fire. (Slow and Purposeful, unlike Relentless, confers to the whole squad!)

Still, you're going to need something else if you want to take on most lists. Some biker nobz might help, and you can even give them a couple of combi-skorchas that they can uncork as they pass by the pipes.

Space Wolves D
Worst of the Space Marine armies in this regard. They've got two troop units that can viably put some templates down, but with so few options in the codex (fewer than the others, even) why bother? Space Wolves are a great army, but like all good savages, they're apparently afraid of fire.

Tau C or A if using Farsight
The Tau only have a single unit that can field flamers. But what a unit! Not only can they field up to six flamers per Elite slot, those flamers are Relentless as well as able to bounce back and forth between the pipes and better cover. A Buffmander in the mix only makes things sweeter, with six twin-linked templates dropping enemies up to 20" away. The Tau have MORE than enough supporting elements to handle anything that doesn't want to come into your bubble of death.

Farsight makes this even MORE atrocious! With the ability to take even more Crisis Suits, now as scoring units, the Tau stand to benefit a great deal from this fortification.

Sisters of Battle B
Sisters come correct in this category, as everyone anticipated. No surprise, they can field a huge number of flamers (over forty of them in a single FOC for under 2k) for a decent price. With good armor saves and good armored support, the Sisters are a solid option to build a flamer-wielding gunline. In many ways, this fortification is everything the Sisters have wanted for a long time (except plastic troop kits, dadum-bum), namely a way to use their high number of fire weapons at greater range.

Tyranids F
Pyrovores. That's it. Fairly cheap, but not that great. Can't be fielded in large enough numbers to make it worthwhile. There isn't a whole hell of a lot of advantage for them here.

Necrons and Dark Eldar F
From bad to worse. Necrons have two fire throwing weapons in their army, but neither can benefit from the pipes. (The Gauntlet of Fire isn't listed as a flamer weapon, and the dispersed Heat Ray is only available on a vehicle.) The Dark Eldar don't even have that much going for them, since they are the only army without access to fire weapons of any kind.

Conclusions
Here's the list of MVP's:
A's
Imperial Guard
Farsight Tau
Chaos Marines
Salamanders


B's
Sisters of Battle
Grey Knights


C's
Tau
Orks


D's
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Eldar


F's
Dark Eldar
Tyranids
Necrons


I think that Imperial Guard stand out as the army that can use the Promethium Relay/Void Relay Network to the best advantage, but if you set your mind to it a Tau, Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, or Salamanders list could also turn some heads. I intend to try as many of these as possible, so I'll let you know how they turn out.

What do you all think? If people think this is useful enough, I'm willing to clean it up and present it as an article. Any thoughts or suggestions?

For those interested in the Promethium Relay pipes, I've found a couple of places you can pick them up.

Armorcast sells both a wall version as well as an overhead pipe walkway that I personally don't feel right using, but sure looks cool.
Spoiler:




Naloomi's Workshop sells pipe/industrial bits that would work just as well, and they sell them for a song.
Spoiler:




Special thanks to barko, conker, extremefreak17, and jifel for providing me access to their Codexes, as well as pointing out some of my errors.
 Filename flamers.xlsx [Disk] Download
 Description A spreadsheet regarding flamers
 File size 16 Kbytes

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/02/17 01:55:27


Welcome to the Freakshow!

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Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

The biggest issue with the promethium pipes is that there is no model. It is certainly an interesting fortification (like 75% of the stronghold book) that can shake up army builds.

There are many rules issues with it too though. As it is worded now, units 60" from the relay will still be damaged by the special rules if the cover save they get is from the relay. Also the question if units inside transports benefit. If they do, the pipes are looking even better.

Whats with the 4.16 templates? It makes no sense to take .16 templates

   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

 Illumini wrote:
The biggest issue with the promethium pipes is that there is no model. It is certainly an interesting fortification (like 75% of the stronghold book) that can shake up army builds.

There are many rules issues with it too though. As it is worded now, units 60" from the relay will still be damaged by the special rules if the cover save they get is from the relay. Also the question if units inside transports benefit. If they do, the pipes are looking even better.

Whats with the 4.16 templates? It makes no sense to take .16 templates


I explained that. Combi-weapons only get a single shot, so I calculated them as being only .16 of a template (since you can only use them one out of the six turns of the game).

You bring up a good point about the model though. I think I'll try to get together a list of the different models you could use for this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/16 21:45:40


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Sneaky Sniper Drone




I think tau are without a doubt the best army for this 99 points for 6 torrent flamers on relentless JSJ platforms with 6 meq wounds is leaps and bounds ahead of anything else. And while guard can have the most flamers their flamers are generally overpriced for what you're getting and gurdsmen squads will get eaten by the fuel leaks as they will need to rely on the cover.

I think GK should be at the top of the list as S6 ignores cover flamers for ~20 a pop on meq which can ignore BLOS is also a big deal.

Lastly works are better than any others in the field as they're the last are my that can cost efficiently field large flamer volumes.

I think you're looking at this wrong. As a means to get as many flamers as possible, but you likely won't benefit from many more than 12 a turn.

You're viewing these as amazing guns but they're effectively as damaging as 2 bolters that don't work if you move, meaning you can't relocate. Paying 50 points for a S4 torrent flamer is a waste no matter how you slice it.

If you'd like a more in depth look hot why tau are leaps and bounds ahead of other armies with the pipeline check out
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576580.pagepage
http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22083

Edit: your combo weapon evaluation is also extremely flawed as no unit will shoot 6 turns, they cannot move and shoot and will not likely be in range turn one, meaning your .16 eval is not at all indicative of actual value.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/16 21:53:10


 
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






50 point? yes.

but within the void network (that is awesome even without the pipes), you aer effectifly paying 40 for one set of pipes, meaning if you have 10 flamers, you are effectifly paying 4 points per flamer to turn it into a turrent weapon, plus you get some awkward cover set.

Now crisis suits ARE the best uses of it. their 3+ armor makes them care less of random gas explosions, and in enclaves being able to field in 99 points what is effectively 6 space marines that JSJ and all carry flamers-as troops, its a decent unit even without the pipes.
Pack two of these, and you are paying 238 for 12 jetpack torrent flamers across two scoring units- a damn good deal if you ask me.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone




 BoomWolf wrote:
50 point? yes.

but within the void network (that is awesome even without the pipes), you aer effectifly paying 40 for one set of pipes, meaning if you have 10 flamers, you are effectifly paying 4 points per flamer to turn it into a turrent weapon, plus you get some awkward cover set.

Now crisis suits ARE the best uses of it. their 3+ armor makes them care less of random gas explosions, and in enclaves being able to field in 99 points what is effectively 6 space marines that JSJ and all carry flamers-as troops, its a decent unit even without the pipes.
Pack two of these, and you are paying 238 for 12 jetpack torrent flamers across two scoring units- a damn good deal if you ask me.

I agree with you entirely, it wasn't the cost of the pipeline I was bashing, but the cost per flamer the OP listed as viable, and some of his bright build ideas such as Havocs with flamers, being able to take lots of flamers doesn't mean taking lots of flamers is a good idea. And it seems all the OP rated on is how many flamers can you fit in each codex.
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Well, you know what they say...

Quantity has a quality of its own

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

It was a suggestion, not necessarily a recommendation Jakob. Please try to disagree without being rude.

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Screaming Shining Spear





Would Eldar D-Scythes work with this?

4000 points: Craftworld Mymeara 
   
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Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





No, the rule that gives the templates torrent is specific to flamers.That would be freaking insane though lol

"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

Sorry about that extremefreak. The list of weapons that it works with is found in the BRB on page 56. I didn't list them all individually for fear of quoting too much rules text. Original post updated!

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[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

I did wonder about this choice when I saw it. Good to see the results.

For Eldar, standing an Avatar in the way shouldn't prevent a good hosing, I assume. Is there a rule that prevents you placing a template over a friendly model if it's immune to the effects?
Also, as I'm lazy and don't have the book at work with me:
Doesn't the Dragon's Breath Flamer not count for this? If it's not on pave 56, I assume not.

6000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 4000 pts - 1000 pts - 1000 pts DS:70+S+G++MB+IPw40k86/f+D++A++/cWD64R+T(T)DM+
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Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

 Skinnereal wrote:
I did wonder about this choice when I saw it. Good to see the results.

For Eldar, standing an Avatar in the way shouldn't prevent a good hosing, I assume. Is there a rule that prevents you placing a template over a friendly model if it's immune to the effects?
Also, as I'm lazy and don't have the book at work with me:
Doesn't the Dragon's Breath Flamer not count for this? If it's not on pave 56, I assume not.


The Dragon's Breath Flamer does indeed count, but I did not include it because I was not including units which could only field a single template.

Unfortunately, even though the Avatar is immune to fire, the template rules still prevent hitting him with a friendly one. Note that with Torrent, however, you can still shoot past him with no worries.

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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Grand Rapids Metro

I love this thread...you're missing a few notes from some armies I play...

Tyranids
Thorax swarms can be taken on tyrants tervigons trygon primes tryannofexes and maybe trygons
The miasma cannon would be awesome as well
The crone has a template
Termagants can have strangle webs

Eldar
Storm guardians
Wraithguard...dscythes...woahdang
Fire dragon exarch

Gks
Dreadnoughts
Razorbacks
Land raider redeemer

And all with psyflame ammo
And there's the crazy Libby remove from play power


I love this thread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I say this not knowing if the template needs to be fire based to work right.

Just checked...these templates work...just saw that the vehicles don't.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/18 01:37:01


Come play games in West Michigan at https://www.facebook.com/tcpgrwarroom 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone




 ductvader wrote:
I love this thread...you're missing a few notes from some armies I play...

Tyranids
Thorax swarms can be taken on tyrants tervigons trygon primes tryannofexes and maybe trygons
The miasma cannon would be awesome as well
The crone has a template
Termagants can have strangle webs

Eldar
Storm guardians
Wraithguard...dscythes...woahdang
Fire dragon exarch

Gks
Dreadnoughts
Razorbacks
Land raider redeemer

And all with psyflame ammo
And there's the crazy Libby remove from play power


I love this thread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I say this not knowing if the template needs to be fire based to work right.

Just checked...these templates work...just saw that the vehicles don't.


Yea pretty much none of those work, it has to be in the BRB list of "flamer weapons" so D-Scythes and such dont work, i think the only one that actually works is storm guardians. But im not sure that would be efficient.
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

Yep. Barring Forgeworld units, the only units from the codexes that can benefit from the Promethium Relay have all been listed. While there are other templates, they don't qualify as flamers. (The complete list of weapons that DO work is defined on page 56.)

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Angelic Adepta Sororitas





Derbyshire

Interesting reading, but I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of SoB. Here are the details of a maxed flamer/heavy flamer list possible with 1 FOC and well under 2000pts:

-total models: 87
-total flame templates: 52
-total combi-flamers: 17
-percentage of models with flamers: 63%
-points: 1555 (doesn't include cost of pipes)

That is an average of just under 28pts per flamer (without taking into account combi flamers), or just over with. 12 of these flamers are also scouting, and as said before they have access to cheap and effective transports and have the ability to get extra rules added when nessecary such as rending heavy flamers and preferred enemy standard flamers. Yeah they dont have the fastest moving troops and can't get any jsj stuff going on, but there are at least 6 flamers in every FoC section (and up to 12) all in power armour, all with an inv save, and most of the unit can be made stubborn or fearless with the addition of a few priests and still come in under 1850 points.

This list is ridiculous and would die to anything with even a small amount of armour, but it does show how much burning for your points you can get.

If only promethium pipes effected vehicles the SoB would be stupidly offensive against anything with a T value!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/18 14:56:55


10000pts - Sisters Venatores
2500pts - Imbros Irregulars
- 3000pts
Alpha Legion (HH era) - 7000pts finished
Army of Mousillon - Bretonnian Black Knight army - 3000pts (66% painted)
Host of Xblanque - Lizardmen Army - 7000pts (50% painted) 
   
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Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

 scrunty wrote:
Interesting reading, but I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of SoB. Here are the details of a maxed flamer/heavy flamer list possible with 1 FOC and well under 2000pts:

-total models: 87
-total flame templates: 52
-total combi-flamers: 17
-percentage of models with flamers: 63%
-points: 1555 (doesn't include cost of pipes)

That is an average of just under 28pts per flamer (without taking into account combi flamers), or just over with. 12 of these flamers are also scouting, and as said before they have access to cheap and effective transports and have the ability to get extra rules added when nessecary such as rending heavy flamers and preferred enemy standard flamers. Yeah they dont have the fastest moving troops and can't get any jsj stuff going on, but there are at least 6 flamers in every FoC section (and up to 12) all in power armour, all with an inv save, and most of the unit can be made stubborn or fearless with the addition of a few priests and still come in under 1850 points.

This list is ridiculous and would die to anything with even a small amount of armour, but it does show how much burning for your points you can get.

If only promethium pipes effected vehicles the SoB would be stupidly offensive against anything with a T value!


I lack a SoB codex, and farmed that one out to a second party. If you'd be willing to PM me your theoretical list, I'd be happy to examine it and correct my original post if needed.

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Angelic Adepta Sororitas





Derbyshire

No problem, PM sent.

I made a few errors in my above post, the point were slightly off (i didnt have my codex in front of me), the total list comes in at 1675 (including combi-flamers) or 1485 without. Meaning a flamer costs 30.4pts or 28.5pts respectively

10000pts - Sisters Venatores
2500pts - Imbros Irregulars
- 3000pts
Alpha Legion (HH era) - 7000pts finished
Army of Mousillon - Bretonnian Black Knight army - 3000pts (66% painted)
Host of Xblanque - Lizardmen Army - 7000pts (50% painted) 
   
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Sneaky Sniper Drone




The S5 rending might be able to do something against armour, especially since you can get side armour. It won't be optimal, but of the only flamer armies it'll probably work best. Range is still an issue as is mobility.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





McKenzie, TN

One thing you may want to note is that there is debate on how blast templates and the void shield generators work. Either every hit on a unit transfers to the shield or the blast transfers 1 hit to the shield if it hits anything within the shield. Therefore the best units to use with the relay are units with lots of flamers and cheap decent range transports. This means SoB, GK/Inq, and IG come out on top. Additionally the transports make the unit immune to the extra damage from the pipes and most of these vehicles can claim a cover save from an ADL sized pipe model.

Your rating of the GK also seems somewhat wonky. They can take the cheapest flamers in the game at 14 pts per flamer and 3 flamers per troop slot. They can also be shoved into chimera transports with ML/HB to give them ranged output. You can then give them monkies to drop HF.

The best quality flamers appear to be the SoB as they are HF for half of them. Their vehicles also have MM which is a nice touch.

IG can spam special weapon squads and PCS which would be the cheapest flamers in the game (12.5 pts) if they didn't require 2 IS to unlock. Still they can be very good in this role and they probably benefit the most from fighting from a fixed fortified position. You could easily castle up in a corner with artillery and flame anything that approaches. Not a great way to play though.

   
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Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

 ansacs wrote:
IG can spam special weapon squads and PCS which would be the cheapest flamers in the game (12.5 pts) if they didn't require 2 IS to unlock. Still they can be very good in this role and they probably benefit the most from fighting from a fixed fortified position. You could easily castle up in a corner with artillery and flame anything that approaches. Not a great way to play though.


Once you've picked up the platoon, there's no reason not to pick up six extra flamers across two special weapons squads. I think the IG list is probably the one I like most (tied with GK) as far as usability goes. I agree you can't run it alone. Either some long range artillery or an in-your-face ally would go a long way to propping up the list.

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Executing Exarch





McKenzie, TN

The GK are great because they also have 36" plasma and dakka dreads that can abuse the void shield generators. The storm raven also gives a nice addition to such a list.

The interesting thing is that this tactic works in three very distinct lists. The forward attack SoB, the center field gunline GK, and the artillery parking lot IG. The void shield relay is a great enabler for a whole new series of list types.
   
Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy







 ansacs wrote:
Therefore the best units to use with the relay are units with lots of flamers and cheap decent range transports. This means SoB, GK/Inq, and IG come out on top. Additionally the transports make the unit immune to the extra damage from the pipes and most of these vehicles can claim a cover save from an ADL sized pipe model.


Ork Trukks are under 40 pts with upgrades so i'd say we come out on top.

'Nids growing soon
3500 pts. unpainted
Admech 1000 buying & building
If you don't enjoy playing against people with unpainted armies, break into their house when they sleep, paint their figures for them, help yourself to their cheerios and then your problems will be solved.
Well, my opponents usually don't have more than 1-2 Wave Serpents 'cos Serpent spam is very expensive in real life money.
GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment. 
   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

TheMisterBold wrote:
 ansacs wrote:
Therefore the best units to use with the relay are units with lots of flamers and cheap decent range transports. This means SoB, GK/Inq, and IG come out on top. Additionally the transports make the unit immune to the extra damage from the pipes and most of these vehicles can claim a cover save from an ADL sized pipe model.


Ork Trukks are under 40 pts with upgrades so i'd say we come out on top.

Not exactly. The problem with trukks near a pipeline is that if your opponent has anything relentless and a flamer anywhere nearby, most of those boyz are going to die.
I thought about a Raider with a unit of storm guardians (2x flamers) up until some paladins deep struck in, and popped 2 S6 AP4 torrent purging on my ass. The guardians that survived the flames were nearly wiped out by the explosion, only to be finished off by soul fire.

Biggest problem with some of the fortifications is that your opponent can use the bonus too, but he doesn't pay points to do so.

-Matt

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in hu
Dakka Veteran




IG Special weapon squads with 3 flamers costs 45 pts, so 15pts a piece. Platoon command squad can take 4 for the sum of 50 pts.

The problem with Promethium pipes that it has to be in your deployment zone, so you can't really use it offensively. Though 12" torrent sounds really good, it may be good to clear off mid-table objectives (if there are only infantry), or give some more firepower for your otherwise not that scary SWS with flamers. For 40 pts you get 7 pieces, at least 2 of these has to be in base contact, so you can put on the table 3 separate pieces, so you can cover your deployment zone pretty well.

Does this have any official model, or measurements, or you just scracth build whatever you like? Like the Void shield generator had some old, limited edition, oop model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jimsolo wrote:
It was a suggestion, not necessarily a recommendation Jakob. Please try to disagree without being rude.


This.

Also promethium only works with flamers weapon on a non-vehicle model (someone above mentioned Dreadnoughts, Razorbacks, etc.).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/04/04 19:11:26


 
   
Made in gb
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian




Promethian pipe relay
40pts

Arch demagogue
4 disciples
Flamer

3 squads of renegades with 2 flamers each

3 squads of renegades with 2 flamers each

330pts including promethian pipes. 13 torrent flamers.

Try getting spammed flamers chaeper.


Get 2 sets of void relays for 6 av12 shields to protect your men and insanely cheap artillery batteries. For 200pts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eg at 1850:

Arch demagogue
Cov of tzeentch and mutant overlord
4 disciples
Flamer

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 spawn

10 mutants

10 mutants

3 rapier laser destroyers
Militia training

3 rapier laser destroyers
Militia training

3 rapier laser destroyers
Militia training

Arch demagogue
4 disciples
Flamer

Renegade platoon
10 renegades
2 flamers

10 renegades
2 flamers

10 renegades
2 flamers

Renegade platoon
10 renegades
2 flamers

10 renegades
2 flamers

10 renegades
2 flamers

Renagade platoon
10 renegades
2 flamers, 10 krak granades
Chimera
Heavy bolter, heavy flamer

10 renegades
2 flamers, 10 krak granades
Chimera
Heavy bolter, heavy flamer

10 renegades
2 flamers, 10 krak granades
Chimera
Heavy bolter, heavy flamer

2 earth shakers

2 earth shakers

4 wyverns

Void relay network
Promethian pipe relay
3 void shields
3 void shields

1850pts

Lots of artillery protected by shields. TONS of torrent flamers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/04 23:53:36


 
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Can someone check the wording of the pipes to check is sentianls can use it?

If so renegades can field 20 pt heavy flamer sentinals in mass, making quite a show.


Truly, they are the best template army between this and simple spam as poly noted.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in gb
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian




Not got it on me atm, in a smoking area. But pretty sure its non vehicles.
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

TheMisterBold wrote:
 ansacs wrote:
Therefore the best units to use with the relay are units with lots of flamers and cheap decent range transports. This means SoB, GK/Inq, and IG come out on top. Additionally the transports make the unit immune to the extra damage from the pipes and most of these vehicles can claim a cover save from an ADL sized pipe model.


Ork Trukks are under 40 pts with upgrades so i'd say we come out on top.


Were they still under 40 pts with upgrades back in the last dex? This thread was written quite a long time ago.

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
 
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