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Thud wrote:
Genuine? Purist? Official? The way it's supposed to be?

Oh, kids these days.

I used to have a hobby called 40k. This hobby had its own magazine called White Dwarf. This magazine had hobby articles in it. One of these articles showed you how to make rules for your own vehicles. Another one of these articles showed you how to make that vehicle from deodorants and balsa wood.

But hey, I get it. You're young. You want your stuff to be exactly like everyone else's stuff. You know, so you won't stand out.

I'm not the Op for the record, but I'm the youngest player at my flgs, and I have an army FULL of conversions and a custom color scheme, we aren't all like that.

 kronk wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
As a Praetorian Guard player I'd be hard pressed to have a contemporary Guard army without utilizing proxying and the counts-as rule. While there are some poorly executed conversions out there I think flat out dismissing any conversions or proxies out of hand is rather limiting. If that is what floats your boat, more power to you, but I do not understand that mindset.


Here are some of my proxies. From L to R we have Gunnery Sgt. Harker, a Priestess, Guardsman Marbo, and Ironhand Straken.

Spoiler:

If someone refused to play me because of these figures I'd laugh in their face.

Those are really well done and you should be proud of them! I'd play you.

But for every great converter like you, there is another guy out there spoiling the bunch:

Hey now, that cute fuzzy wuzzy defiler peaking out from behind the trees just wants to be loved!

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
As a Praetorian Guard player I'd be hard pressed to have a contemporary Guard army without utilizing proxying and the counts-as rule. While there are some poorly executed conversions out there I think flat out dismissing any conversions or proxies out of hand is rather limiting. If that is what floats your boat, more power to you, but I do not understand that mindset.


Here are some of my proxies. From L to R we have Gunnery Sgt. Harker, a Priestess, Guardsman Marbo, and Ironhand Straken.

Spoiler:

If someone refused to play me because of these figures I'd laugh in their face.

Those are really well done and you should be proud of them! I'd play you.

But for every great converter like you, there is another guy out there spoiling the bunch:

Hey now, that cute fuzzy wuzzy defiler peaking out from behind the trees just wants to be loved!

He does not deserve it. *Most serious face ever made my any being, human of otherwise.* He should be thrown to the wiener dog.

Also, I thought they were blood angels...

*sniggers* Looks like something Ovion would play.

I daresay the Bloody Pipecleaner warband aren't intended to be a serious army, and are an example of someone trying to get people to lighten up and stop taking the hobby so straightlaced.

(I thought Blood Angels, too... >&gt

I'm a dirt poor college student. If I want a special character or unit, I usually have to do a conversion. My armies are rife with them and of varying quality. I can understand where you are coming from but for me half the fun comes from making your own versions of models.

 kronk wrote:

But for every great converter like you, there is another guy out there spoiling the bunch:

I didn't convert those I commissioned them, and in my limited experience I have run across more neat conversions than half-assed "Blood Letters" conversions*. Maybe I am lucky in that regard or maybe the "Tonka truck with guns" meme that gets thrown out so much when it comes to gakky conversions is more internet myth than reality. I dunno, I haven't done the research, but from the games I have witnessed first hand, and the painting forums I visit daily, indicate that most people put a lot of effort and creativity into their conversions.

I absolutely agree that models should have their appropriate wargear and should be as close as possible in size and basing to the models they are representing, but other than that I could really care less what you plop down on the table as long as it has a logic to it that won't hinder game play.

This game has always involved some negotiation with your opponent and if an army offends your sensibilities obviously you shouldn't play against it, but I become suspicious of people who dismiss outright an opportunity for a game due to some hyper critical gripe about the minutiae of an army.





*Though, honestly, how could you turn down a game with those Bloodletters? I'd play just for the story. That army makes me laugh every time I see it and I am sure the person running it would make the game enjoyable due to their sense of humor.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
(I thought Blood Angels, too... >&gt

No, it's a Chaos army. They're Bloodletters.


And I would totally play against that army. It's hilarious.


As for using only 'official' models... Ugh. I'm not going to be constrained to official releases when a given unit I want to use has ugly models, or I have something else that will work instead. And given the number of options that simply don't have models, that approach would seriously limit your army choices.

 insaniak wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
(I thought Blood Angels, too... >&gt

No, it's a Chaos army. They're Bloodletters.


And I would totally play against that army. It's hilarious.


As for using only 'official' models... Ugh. I'm not going to be constrained to official releases when a given unit I want to use has ugly models, or I have something else that will work instead. And given the number of options that simply don't have models, that approach would seriously limit your army choices.

I get it now! And I have a converted Dark vengeance chaos lord (Gave him a combi-melta) as an aspiring champion, I know the feeling.

Far to much fun in making conversions for models i don't like or just don't have enough variation... (Maphiston, Dante, Cryptecks, ork things, Tach squad poses)

Generally yes. I never liked heavy conversions; what i mean is that I would kitbash from different parts but I wouldn't custom make things or go overboard, since I'm a stickler for the background and fluff so I like things to be as close as possible to feel "real".

Why limit yourself to only one company's models, when many of the sculptors responsible for some of GW's 'iconic' designs now work for others OR own their own companies?

Seems so straightjacketing.

Conversions are the way. Army after army, all using the same models, all painted the "official way", in the "proper colours" looks so boring and regimented and so ... uninspired.

I've seen many chaos armies, all painted exactly the same way. You'd think the chaos players would have at least tried to embody the chaos somewhat and differ from the norm a little? Unless these days, order IS seen as chaotic?

 chromedog wrote:
Why limit yourself to only one company's models, when many of the sculptors responsible for some of GW's 'iconic' designs now work for others OR own their own companies?

Seems so straightjacketing.

Conversions are the way. Army after army, all using the same models, all painted the "official way", in the "proper colours" looks so boring and regimented and so ... uninspired.

I've seen many chaos armies, all painted exactly the same way. You'd think the chaos players would have at least tried to embody the chaos somewhat and differ from the norm a little? Unless these days, order IS seen as chaotic?

One of my chaos spawn is a crisis suit with demonic limbs bursting out of it. I also know a guy with a sorcerer that was kit-bashed from a chosen and a pain engine. How are those?

Personally, I find this far more epic than GW's Mephiston model. Still don't like the gloves though, wish he just had PA gauntlets. So no, I am not a model purist. I bought so many extra Death Company and Sanguinary Guard bits to make my Blood Angels army look ornate it isn't even funny.

You know what's really funny, Daly?

In your last Dark Eldar list, you want to use Vect.

Vect does not have an on-foot model. So are you a purist or not?

http://theimperialpatrol.blogspot.co.nz/2014/02/the-future-of-imperial-guard-2014-hopes.html

I wrote this not long ago after re reading an old Imperial guard codex. I think a lot of the above attitude has a lot do with GW attitude and display of models. It usually affects younger ones more than anyone else but I think its a problem. Moreso for armies desgined with variety in mind (like guard).

Thankfully I saw some conversions in the new white dwarf picture book my friend showed me, but I dont expect much to come from it.

but seriously look at how GW used to be and how they are now. Its like they are killing off creativity big time.

 Orblivion wrote:
Personally, I find this far more epic than GW's Mephiston model. Still don't like the gloves though, wish he just had PA gauntlets. So no, I am not a model purist. I bought so many extra Death Company and Sanguinary Guard bits to make my Blood Angels army look ornate it isn't even funny.

my current Meph



I hav an original one as well, but i like action poses

Models that don't have a model, I'm ok with kit bashing. Absolutely against non gw products for gw games though...

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

Thud wrote:
Genuine? Purist? Official? The way it's supposed to be?

Oh, kids these days.

I used to have a hobby called 40k. This hobby had its own magazine called White Dwarf. This magazine had hobby articles in it. One of these articles showed you how to make rules for your own vehicles. Another one of these articles showed you how to make that vehicle from deodorants and balsa wood.

But hey, I get it. You're young. You want your stuff to be exactly like everyone else's stuff. You know, so you won't stand out.

Im 29 wish i were still a kid

Trust me, you don't want to be a kid. Being a kid means having no money for models

I consider myself a 'model purist'. I love conversions, but I only accept them if they fit the 40k aesthethic and fit in the fluff (so no alternate SM models etc.)

I convert as much of what I build as possible to make my armies as varied as possible. I am currently building a Deathwatch Kill Team to be used as Sternguard using a Tactical Squad box and a Deathwatch upgrade pack, with all the bitz I've accumulated building my Space Marine Chapter that's 10,000+ points over the years. Every single model I've converted using various pieces - my White Scar has a converted GK Nemesis Halberd, while my Salamander has a particularly mean double edged chainsword surgery-built from a Space Wolf kit, using a Space Wolf arm (no iconography) that is unique to that kit that has the arm held back, as though having just struck, cinematically.

If the model at least loosely fits the general aesthetic, I see no reason to be Nazi-like. I built a squad of Space Marine Honour Guard using bigger Sci-bor pieces of armour, combined with the MK7 helms, and non-GW crests. They came out pretty well and look like they fit in the universe.

Converting models and trying to push the envelope on what can be built is the only thing that makes building them fun for me.

I like people's armies to be as unique to them as possible. I'd never collect them personally, but I love how Ork players are usually super creative with their models.

I don't really like converting, I like it when the models look good out of the box.

Back when I started I wanted to convert everything, after a while I started to notice it takes aggggges to convert a model so it actually looks like it was "supposed" to be there. Precious few conversions actually look good IMO. There's a few guys who can do them well, for 99% of people most the conversions they produce just look very amateur.

Some of my favourite models are the ones like the Dark Vengeance set or the more recent Space Hulk set. The models just look good, you don't need to screw around with them. They look good, go together easily, and are relatively easy to prep for painting.

Also when you're doing Fantasy stuff, there's something to be said for models that are simple and in a simple pose. Too much chaos on a model when you have 40 of the all lined up in a regiment just makes it look messy.

These days I only convert models of which I don't like the look originally. Right now, I'm converting an Orc Warboss because I think the GW Ork Warboss model is terrible. So I'm converting one from a 40k Ork Warboss. I don't really WANT to convert it so much as I feel I MUST convert it, lol.

Even then, I kind of wish I just bought something like a Avatars of War Orc Warboss, as they look better than what I've converted and wouldn't have wasted as much time.

So yeah, I prefer to have models that look good to begin and don't need converting.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Back when I started I wanted to convert everything, after a while I started to notice it takes aggggges to convert a model so it actually looks like it was "supposed" to be there. Precious few conversions actually look good IMO. There's a few guys who can do them well, for 99% of people most the conversions they produce just look very amateur.

How are people supposed to get better at converting if they don't convert.

Though it's all and good if you don't want to convert of course.. that's not your part of the hobby, as long as you don't have anything against others who make conversions (of course there are limits, not every conversion needs to be allowed)

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Models that don't have a model, I'm ok with kit bashing. Absolutely against non gw products for gw games though...

Then you're not a purist, are you?

I love convesions such as the Smurf 40k army, Star Wars Guard armies, Grue Minion Army, and the cookie man army. I like most conversions as long as there is some effort put in to them.

I made my own Ghost knight conversions.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/469397-.html

 chromedog wrote:
Why limit yourself to only one company's models, when many of the sculptors responsible for some of GW's 'iconic' designs now work for others OR own their own companies?

Seems so straightjacketing.

Conversions are the way. Army after army, all using the same models, all painted the "official way", in the "proper colours" looks so boring and regimented and so ... uninspired.

I've seen many chaos armies, all painted exactly the same way. You'd think the chaos players would have at least tried to embody the chaos somewhat and differ from the norm a little? Unless these days, order IS seen as chaotic?

I tend to limit myself to GW models, for two reasons:

1. I don't really have any natural conversion talent. I'm horrible with greenstuff, and I'm too cheap to buy two models just to get one kitbashed result.
2. I play in local GW stores most of the time, and the requirement is that all models must be at least 70% GW product, so that rules out whole models from other companies. I'd prefer not to have a set of models that are legal in GW stores and a set for everywhere else.

Brother Weasel wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Back when I started I wanted to convert everything, after a while I started to notice it takes aggggges to convert a model so it actually looks like it was "supposed" to be there. Precious few conversions actually look good IMO. There's a few guys who can do them well, for 99% of people most the conversions they produce just look very amateur.

How are people supposed to get better at converting if they don't convert.

Though it's all and good if you don't want to convert of course.. that's not your part of the hobby, as long as you don't have anything against others who make conversions (of course there are limits, not every conversion needs to be allowed)

People can do what they like with their models, but realistically I think most people are never going to get near what pros at GW or any other top tier company can do.

I'm not against people converting and there's things I myself convert... but I'd always prefer that the model looks good to begin with than have to convert it. I'm doing a Stormtalon conversion at the moment, I think it looks alright, but it's still massively below what a pro could do and I'd rather the Stormtalon looked good to start instead of having to convert it.

There's no model for a MotF on a bike. So that option is just thrown out of my Space Marine codex? If I were a purist and wanted a bike MotF to run my IH army then I'm just out of luck? There's quite a few cases where there aren't models for things in codexes. As far as marines go, fluff wise you can say the techmarine got orders from the space marine captain to make a certain vehicle out of what he has available to him to complete the mission at hand. Even the stories back up making conversions. Would you not play against someone that is fielding a fully custom army? Ground up converted and painted I mean.

 undertow wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
Why limit yourself to only one company's models, when many of the sculptors responsible for some of GW's 'iconic' designs now work for others OR own their own companies?

Seems so straightjacketing.

Conversions are the way. Army after army, all using the same models, all painted the "official way", in the "proper colours" looks so boring and regimented and so ... uninspired.

I've seen many chaos armies, all painted exactly the same way. You'd think the chaos players would have at least tried to embody the chaos somewhat and differ from the norm a little? Unless these days, order IS seen as chaotic?

I tend to limit myself to GW models, for two reasons:

1. I don't really have any natural conversion talent. I'm horrible with greenstuff, and I'm too cheap to buy two models just to get one kitbashed result.
2. I play in local GW stores most of the time, and the requirement is that all models must be at least 70% GW product, so that rules out whole models from other companies. I'd prefer not to have a set of models that are legal in GW stores and a set for everywhere else.

Yeah, I mostly stick to GW products for GW games because I do still game in a GW store frequently and also I can rarely find entire armies that match the aesthetic I want. There might be some good models from here, some other good models from there, but put them together in an army and they won't look cohesive.

The few armies that could be done well with 3rd party models that I'm interested in are armies that I already have a large amount of GW models anyway (namely IG and Bretonnians). If there were another army I could do entirely with 3rd party models that would look cohesive and have an appealing aesthetic, I'd go for it.

I'm not against 3rd party models, I have been collecting model planes, ships and tanks well before I ever started GW games.

I like different MCs having different heads. This is trivial with Carnifexes as there's eleventy billion heads in the box. It doesn't work as well for Exocrines - there's one.

But a Carnifex head fits almost perfectly in there. So now I have options.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Back when I started I wanted to convert everything, after a while I started to notice it takes aggggges to convert a model so it actually looks like it was "supposed" to be there. Precious few conversions actually look good IMO. There's a few guys who can do them well, for 99% of people most the conversions they produce just look very amateur.

How are people supposed to get better at converting if they don't convert.

Though it's all and good if you don't want to convert of course.. that's not your part of the hobby, as long as you don't have anything against others who make conversions (of course there are limits, not every conversion needs to be allowed)

People can do what they like with their models, but realistically I think most people are never going to get near what pros at GW or any other top tier company can do.

I'm not against people converting and there's things I myself convert... but I'd always prefer that the model looks good to begin with than have to convert it. I'm doing a Stormtalon conversion at the moment, I think it looks alright, but it's still massively below what a pro could do and I'd rather the Stormtalon looked good to start instead of having to convert it.

I agree to a point...

Mainly, what if the model doesn't look good or you need a lot of them... I convert space marines all the time, fine looking models, but i don't need all of them looking almost exactly alike I convert my heavy preds to look diffrent then my fast ones...

am i a pro, heck no... but I have fun, to me that's the important part... my paint jobs arn't upt to what pros do either... doens't mean i'm gonna stop painting