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 poppa G wrote:
Lol, what I find funny is I posted this exact same thread awhile ago on a Halo forum and it was like 226 votes to Chief and like 94 to the marines. Except in that thread it was Lysander and 3 Veteran Imperial fist marines....

Because that was on a halo forum.
Makes more sense the marine would win, but this is a 40k forum.

You wanna know who would beat them both?

Samus Aran.

Again canonically the Haloverse is being sold short. The only things lacking in terms of augmentation are the redundant organs and the ability to breathe underwater, everthing else was effectively done to the spartans as well, enhanced night vision etc. Giving him S3 is a farce. In the books, they pre-augmentation could lift nearly double of any other normal unsc marine. The augmentation doubled that, and the Mjolnir armor then tripled strength (a total of 12x). Another thing to consider is there's no gunpowder in the weapons of Halo, they all fire using the same effective principles as a railgun. While I won't argue that it doesn't penetrate as well as a bolter, its probably near the level of some of the weaker Tau weaponry. Also I don't see the Marine in effectively daily guerrilla action against an overwhelming number who also has vastly superior air superiority. If you just took stats at face value, MC would be hard pressed to square off against an elite which is close to his own level of strength and actually a little tougher. As for grav hammers, I'd like to see your ultramarine survive a direct hit from a thunderhammer and walk away. And spetsnaz would be chewed alive considering he's had every minute of training they would have and then years more, and a suit of armor that would be impervious to small-arms fire of his own century that aren't using ap rounds. Also trying to pass off faulty ai as 'tactics' is a bit far-fetched. I'll be the first person to admit that the MC has plot armor up the wazoo. After all his 'specialty' amongst the spartans wasn't being the best sniper or the fastest or strongest. It's being the luckiest.

 DragonOfAsh wrote:
Again canonically the Haloverse is being sold short. The only things lacking in terms of augmentation are the redundant organs and the ability to breathe underwater, everthing else was effectively done to the spartans as well, enhanced night vision etc. Giving him S3 is a farce. In the books, they pre-augmentation could lift nearly double of any other normal unsc marine. The augmentation doubled that, and the Mjolnir armor then tripled strength (a total of 12x). Another thing to consider is there's no gunpowder in the weapons of Halo, they all fire using the same effective principles as a railgun. While I won't argue that it doesn't penetrate as well as a bolter, its probably near the level of some of the weaker Tau weaponry. Also I don't see the Marine in effectively daily guerrilla action against an overwhelming number who also has vastly superior air superiority. If you just took stats at face value, MC would be hard pressed to square off against an elite which is close to his own level of strength and actually a little tougher. As for grav hammers, I'd like to see your ultramarine survive a direct hit from a thunderhammer and walk away. And spetsnaz would be chewed alive considering he's had every minute of training they would have and then years more, and a suit of armor that would be impervious to small-arms fire of his own century that aren't using ap rounds. Also trying to pass off faulty ai as 'tactics' is a bit far-fetched. I'll be the first person to admit that the MC has plot armor up the wazoo. After all his 'specialty' amongst the spartans wasn't being the best sniper or the fastest or strongest. It's being the luckiest.

Firstly, learn to paragraph your posts properly. Posting this in a big damn block makes you look illiterate and inconveniences me when I have to read it.

Secondly, Bull crap.

All of this is bull crap.

All the ground weaponary of the UNSC save for the Spartan laser and a few haphazardly applied coilguns is something you'd see in vietnam or before.

Coilguns are rare technology for UNSC ground troops and looking at the discarded cartridges of weapons clearly shows regular old chemically propelled bullets. The Assault rifle even uses 7.62mm NATO rounds except for whatever reason they're now made out of aerogel.

The canonical range of the .303 caliber "HMG" in Halo is 30 yards as per the book, which means that past a mere ninety feet the gun does not have the energy nor the accuracy to remain effective, so this means that Halo's firearm technology has actually backslid to blackpowder munitions levels. Actually worse than that because there were plenty of 18th century fire arms that could hit a target well beyond 30 freaking yards.

Elites are twice as strong as a human of the same mass as per halo cannon and are competetive with Spartans.

A Marine is ten times as strong as a person and the armor multiplies their strength by ten fold. So being generous and assuming an elite is twice the mass of a human, a Marine is as strong as twenty five elites. The strength difference here is greater than the strength difference of a grizzly bear and the skinny nerd always picked last in dodgeball.

The fight would be over in a single punch as the Marine drives his fist through 117's helmet and skull with ease.

And "air superiority"?

Coming from Banshees who move so slowly that the Red Baron's Triplane would be able to gut them en masse?

From planes that you can shoot down with assault rifles?

From an enemy whose vehicle charges are stopped by rifle wielding infantry in infantry squares?

Whose tanks can be shot apart by small arms fire?

The Covenant is not a competent enemy and only succeeds because the UNSC has actually fallen behind modern technology in many areas and is equally criminally incompetent.

Halo's plot literally only works because the collective IQ of the entire Halo setting can be counted with your hands.

 poppa G wrote:
Marine- Bolt gun, Bolt pistol, Power armor, jet-pack, two grenades.
Chief- pistol, battle-rifle, MKVII armor, two grenades.
No plot-armor.
The terrain is an abandoned town.

uhh jumppack? might as well give him terminator armor to at least give the marine a standing chance...

/sarcasm

Seriously though, if its an Ultramarine my support goes to MC

 Happyjew wrote:
And this is the problem with 40K vs anything.

Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, etc. Are fairly consistent in what the technology is able to do. Especially since (for the most part) there is a set hierarchy on what trumps what. For example, in the Star Wars movie, Ob-Wan Kenobi says "These are not the Droids you are looking for." If someone wrote a novelization, where Obi-Wan says "These Droids ain't the ones you're looking for" then when we go to analyze, the movie quote is correct.

With 40K, you have lasguns burning holes through human flesh and at the same time bouncing off of paper (exaggeration, I know, but just an example).

Since 40K tech bounces all over and there is no set hierarchy, it is impossible to determine the strengths and weaknesses of 40K tech.

Star Wars and Star Trek consistent?

Yeah, Star Wars has serious consistency problems.

The visual effects from the films don't jive with the novels, and the novels don't match with each other because everyone and his mother is writing a Star Wars EU novel.


Some of the stated outputs of Star Wars capital ship weaponry are ludicrously powerful. By some numbers, a Star Destroyer should be able to basically destroy the entire surface of a planet by itself. But it doesn't so the numbers are obviously wrong.

 Kain wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
And this is the problem with 40K vs anything.

Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, etc. Are fairly consistent in what the technology is able to do. Especially since (for the most part) there is a set hierarchy on what trumps what. For example, in the Star Wars movie, Ob-Wan Kenobi says "These are not the Droids you are looking for." If someone wrote a novelization, where Obi-Wan says "These Droids ain't the ones you're looking for" then when we go to analyze, the movie quote is correct.

With 40K, you have lasguns burning holes through human flesh and at the same time bouncing off of paper (exaggeration, I know, but just an example).

Since 40K tech bounces all over and there is no set hierarchy, it is impossible to determine the strengths and weaknesses of 40K tech.

Star Wars and Star Trek consistent?

Star Wars has a strict Canon policy, which writers must conform to. For example, if it is established that a light Turbolaser on an ISD has an energy level of 750, 000 TJ (179 Megatons) then the books cannot have them be more powerful than that. Star Trek books are inconsistent, however, they are generally not canon until added to the show.

Furthermore I did not say consistent, I said fairly consistent. There are obviously some inconsistencies within the individual universes, however, nowhere near as bad as WH40K.

I forgot the name of the site that does it, but there is a site that regularly put match-ups of stuff, using the fluff of different things using emperical numbers of power levels, just how hard each gun hits, how much energy can shield block, etc.

The conclusion was, that not only does MC has no chance, he will likely lose against a NAKED marine.
To put things into perspective, the farsight enclaves alone can take down the entire halo universe with virtually no losses, the power scales are just nothing alike-there is just nothing IN the halo universe that can actually damage them when it comes to weapons, and no armor that can survive a shot.
Spacecraft-grade weapons of halo are heavy infantry grade in 40k when in comes to energy output, and power armor can take more of a beating then some spacecraft.

The glorious "spartan" armor with its fancy shields? it will block a single bolter round, at best, while a scorpion tank is unlikely to penetrate space marine power armor.

Heck, the HALO universe is such a lousy example of high-tech power scale, that many things there are beaten by real life modern tech, its just a joke when you compare to 40k when imperial guardsman have squad-level weapons that require a small nuclear power plant levels of energy to power, and these are considered LOUSY guns.

The stats posted earlier by someone else are crap.

Master Chief? Ballistic skill 5? He is as good of a shot as veterans of centuries of constant warfare? No. He is BS 4 at the most.

And Covvie plasma tech is not S4 AP4. Consider what S4 is in 40k. Gauss flayers, weapons that strip the atoms from your body, are S4. Bolters, weapons that fire mass reactive explosive rockets, are S4. The Plasma rifle is a short range Lasgun at best.

Master Chief does not have carapace equivalent armor. His armor cant stop stubber rounds.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I forgot the name of the site that does it, but there is a site that regularly put match-ups of stuff, using the fluff of different things using emperical numbers of power levels, just how hard each gun hits, how much energy can shield block, etc.

Probably thinking about spacebattles.com. However, I would not rely on that site.

Spacecraft-grade weapons of halo are heavy infantry grade in 40k when in comes to energy output, and power armor can take more of a beating then some spacecraft.

I didn't realize that 40K armour could withstand 243 terajoules of energy (58.16 kilotons) that MACs put out (velocity(30,000 m/s) and square it (900,000,000) then multiply that by the projectile weight (540,784 kg) and then divide that number by 2).

They're incomparable because they're on two entirely different scales.

Just take their adaptions to fatigue. The Spartan has extra-efficient haemoglobin, meaning that they can sustain high levels of activity for longer because they become anaerobic more slowly.

The Marine has extra-efficient haemoglobin, meaning he can sustain high levels of activity for longer. He also has two hearts, meaning he can recover from sustained activity more quickly, and more efficient muscles, meaning that his muscles need less oxygen to retain viability.

The Spartan becomes anaerobic and starts to build up lactic acid. The Marine never become anaerobic, never builds up lactic acid, and can therefore keep going until he collapses from exhaustion.

That's just comparing a single piece of their upgrading!

/Sarcasm
Master Chief wins, hands down. Just look at the Space Marine's stats: A normal human armed with just a knife or the butt of a rifle has a 1/9 chance of killing him if he lands a solid blow. Meanwhile, a Space Marine kills a guardsman half the time he lands a hit. Master Chief is far faster and stronger than any mortal, not to mention his armor can survive pretty much any single hit. At range, a Space Marine will rarely land two hits in rapid succession, and against a T3 opponent has only about a 1/4 chance of getting through MCs shields. Meanwhile, Space Marine armor will consistently fail under fire, and even crappy run-of-the-mill gear like Lasguns will kill a marine in 9 hits.
No contest.


Also, Convent plasma could EASILY be S4. Other things which are S4: Flamethrowers, hot lead being thrown by guns held together with duct tape, or a really angry cultist running at you as fast as he can.

 Kain wrote:
You wanna know who would beat them both?

Samus Aran.

In pure sexiness, sure.

I have said this before and I will likely keep repeating it as long as silly threads like this keep appearing.
You just can't compare two different characters from entirely different fictional realities (paradox!).
Apart from causing severe disrutions to the space-time-reality continuum, you just can't compare magical fictional thing A to magical fictional thing B, because they are magical and fictional. They are on completely different scales, following completely different rules and are therefore incomparable.
(isn't there an English proverb about apples and oranges for this?).

Pre Halo 4, the Ultra Marine takes this in a cake walk.
Post Halo 4, Chief has Dragon Ball Z like powers and is ridiculously stupid to the point they ruined his character. But he takes this in a cake walk.

Edit: Oh wait this an Ultra Marine vs Master Cheif. I don't know what a Cheif is.

Ultramarine, hands down.
You realize the IoM and AdMech has had an extra THIRTY-SIX THOUSAND years to develop better weaponry and armour than the UNSC.

Not going to jump too deep into this convo, because this a 40K forum (meaning huge bias for 40K), and there is an obvious lack of knowledge about the actual Halo universe beyond the games being displayed here.

I will say this, though: the idea that a Spartan couldn't be BS5 is pretty laughable (and stupid) considering that there are BS5 Tau. Tau. Those guys who live for like 40 years and are outright stated in the fluff to have poor eyesight. Lord Commisars are also BS5. Yarrik, Marbo.

Stay classy, Dakka.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Not going to jump too deep into this convo, because this a 40K forum (meaning huge bias for 40K), and there is an obvious lack of knowledge about the actual Halo universe beyond the games being displayed here.

I will say this, though: the idea that a Spartan couldn't be BS5 is pretty laughable (and stupid) considering that there are BS5 Tau. Tau. Those guys who live for like, 40 years.

Stay classy, Dakka.

I could believe Linda to be BS5 because she is an excellent shot. But Master Chief? He doesn't seem to be all that much of a crack shot.

Tau get BS5 from highly advanced targeting systems and laser pointers not from experience generally.

BTW, I've read Reach, the Flood and First Strike. They reflect the games pretty well in terms of weapon performance.

No, they don't get it from advanced targeting systems and laser pointers, otherwise ALL Tau units would be BS5, instead of BS3.

Shadowsun, Farsight and Darkstrider are all passively BS5, no markerlights required (Darkstrider doesn't even wear a helmet). As are the Imperial Guard special characters I've edited into my post above.

You're simply incorrect if you think that you need to have "centuries of experience" to have BS5. You don't. BS5 is just a reflection of being an extremely good shot.

That is a fair point. Weird how only Captains and Chapter Masters seem to be really the only ones who get BS5 but I guess it's probably a gameplay and story segregation. But Tau DO get BS5 from laser pointers and advanced targeting systems. Marker lights can be used to give them BS5 and I believe the reason battlesuits get a higher BS is because of their targeting systems.

I still maintain my point that Master Chief doesn't seem to be a crack shot. He is a superior shooter, yes, but not that of BS5.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
That is a fair point. Weird how only Captains and Chapter Masters seem to be really the only ones who get BS5 but I guess it's probably a gameplay and story segregation. But Tau DO get BS5 from laser pointers and advanced targeting systems. Marker lights can be used to give them BS5 and I believe the reason battlesuits get a higher BS is because of their targeting systems.

I still maintain my point that Master Chief doesn't seem to be a crack shot. He is a superior shooter, yes, but not that of BS5.

People still care how 40k forces do against forces outside of this universe?

Marine, a halo rifle will do pretty much zero vs marine power armour. And even if a shot through, the body can take extreme damage.

+ a bolter is going kill in few shots, shield then boom, red paste time

I'm going with Master Chief, because space marines aren't even that good in their own universe.

Why... leave this topic for youtube comments PLEASE T_T

Neither are Spartans that aren't 117.

I guess it comes down to a weapons pissing contest. I've lost way too many marines to jerk-off guardsmen with plasma guns to have any respect left for them at all.

Martel732 wrote:
I guess it comes down to a weapons pissing contest. I've lost way too many marines to jerk-off guardsmen with plasma guns to have any respect left for them at all.

You mean a gun that is good at killing heavy infantry is killing your heavy infantry?!
What a shock!

It's not as if every space marine is armed with a weapon that's good at killing light infantry and can shrug off most basic weapons...oh wait.

Plasma weapons feth up MasterChief pretty righteously, too.

Especially if you stick a plasma grenade on the back of his head.