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 tyrannosaurus wrote:
I find it really interesting that there are so many negative posts about GW [particularly in terms of pricing] but so few about Forge World, even though they're essentially the same company [profits go to the same place, Kirby has overall direction]. Lots of negativity about the cost of the Imperial Knight at £85, but then £60 for one model in terminator armour on a nice base [Horus] is seen as perfectly acceptable. In our heads do we see them as separate companies?

Because forgeworld does it right.

Beautiful models, rules that make more sense (Tactical squads should be able to swap out bolters for CCW+pistol for FREE, and take 2 special weapons), IA and HH books are well done, and they make kick-ass models.

However, you do see some complaints, including myself.

1. Make a gosh darn list of the most up-to-date book for each model/unit. The Contemptor Dreadnought alone is in 5 fething books.
2. Make more Xenos stuff. The HH stuff is making them a feth-ton of money. I get it. But don't forget the Necron, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Chaos, and Tau players.

Plus, there is also a bit of mindlessness to the exuberance.

Let's not forget that forgeworld created fliers and superheavies which were both put into 40k with virtually no modification, and those are two of the things that are rightly complained about now. Forgeworld has also produced some of the worst game balanced units as well, and then those units, terrible balance at all, have been copied unmodified into 40k.

I don't know if coming out with experimental rules quite undoes all of the negative that forgeworld has done as well.

In the end, forgeworld being part of GW, it has behaved mostly like GW. I agree with the OP that the two should be treated in the same regard.

 Ailaros wrote:
Plus, there is also a bit of mindlessness to the exuberance.

Let's not forget that forgeworld created fliers and superheavies which were both put into 40k with virtually no modification, and those are two of the things that are rightly complained about now. Forgeworld has also produced some of the worst game balanced units as well, and then those units, terrible balance at all, have been copied unmodified into 40k.

I don't know if coming out with experimental rules quite undoes all of the negative that forgeworld has done as well.

In the end, forgeworld being part of GW, it has behaved mostly like GW. I agree with the OP that the two should be treated in the same regard.

Disagree wholly. Forgeworld is never a required part of play and has been always optional. Just because FW developed rules for something, good or bad, doesn't discredit GW from further cramming it in and performing zero effort to fix it or balance it. Flyer heart burn is due to the fact that to this day we still have an incorrect balance of the ability to deal with them across codecis which could have been fixed with errata or codex updates. There isn't a single good reason why Space Wolves can't have a Storm Talon or Storm Raven, but there they sit. Sisters got an update with zero help. Dark Angels got two garbage flyers out the gate when the Storm Raven and Night Scythe were obviously better in gameplay and points effectiveness.

There are unbalanced FW units, we all know what they are, but the community actively votes them out. It's much harder to vote out something in a core codex than in an optional game addition from a premium boutique supplier.

FW does not behave like GW. A quick look at their download page, which provides complete army rules for free, is huge suggestion otherwise. They aren't perfect, but they are certainly a much better entity than their sister orgazniation which actively treats it's customer as "dollar dispensers" instead of a valued asset.

 Ailaros wrote:
Plus, there is also a bit of mindlessness to the exuberance.

Let's not forget that forgeworld created fliers and superheavies which were both put into 40k with virtually no modification, and those are two of the things that are rightly complained about now. Forgeworld has also produced some of the worst game balanced units as well, and then those units, terrible balance at all, have been copied unmodified into 40k.

I don't know if coming out with experimental rules quite undoes all of the negative that forgeworld has done as well.

In the end, forgeworld being part of GW, it has behaved mostly like GW. I agree with the OP that the two should be treated in the same regard.

Completely disagree with this statement. And some is obviously not based on fact. Flyers worked VERY different in games based off of Apocalypse units. There were hard counters in every list easily accessible, something GW refused to do with FAQs and Updates to older Codexes when 6th Edition hit. Superheavies also worked different, and they didn't wipe infantry models off the board equally regardless of cost...now a Grot and Terminator Captain have the same chance of getting removed.

How many GW units have provided players with experimental rules for a model, listened to feedback and then produced a very clean rule set regarding that model?

FW 'gets' the hobby side and gamer side of 40k much more than their parent company does. Why this happens is difficult to say, but in my opinion it certainly does happen.

They seem to make much less douche moves than GW i.e suing companies who want to help then.

Also:



These 2 figures are both the same size by OP's logic

Wow, Horus is huge. I never realized that. Nearly a 54mm Space Marine.

Farseer Faenyin wrote:Flyers worked VERY different in games based off of Apocalypse units. There were hard counters in every list easily accessible, something GW refused to do with FAQs and Updates to older Codexes when 6th Edition hit. Superheavies also worked different, and they didn't wipe infantry models off the board equally regardless of cost...now a Grot and Terminator Captain have the same chance of getting removed.

TheKbob wrote:Just because FW developed rules for something, good or bad, doesn't discredit GW from further cramming it in and performing zero effort to fix it or balance it.

Nevermind, I change my previous statement. Forgeworld love is MOSTLY based on mindless exuberance.

Games workshop brings out expensive models with garbage rules and they're satan incarnate. Forgeworld brings out expensive models with garbage rules and they are to be loved and admired.

And people complain about people who like GW being the ones who've drunk the kool-aid...

 Ailaros wrote:

Farseer Faenyin wrote:Flyers worked VERY different in games based off of Apocalypse units. There were hard counters in every list easily accessible, something GW refused to do with FAQs and Updates to older Codexes when 6th Edition hit. Superheavies also worked different, and they didn't wipe infantry models off the board equally regardless of cost...now a Grot and Terminator Captain have the same chance of getting removed.

TheKbob wrote:Just because FW developed rules for something, good or bad, doesn't discredit GW from further cramming it in and performing zero effort to fix it or balance it.

Nevermind, I change my previous statement. Forgeworld love is MOSTLY based on mindless exuberance.

Games workshop brings out expensive models with garbage rules and they're satan incarnate. Forgeworld brings out expensive models with garbage rules and they are to be loved and admired.

And people complain about people who like GW being the ones who've drunk the kool-aid...

Games Workshop gives us the Khorne-dozer. Forge World gives us the Macharius. I think that's probably what it is.

Forge World also didn't make it legal to field D-weaponry in "regular" games of 40k.

FW strikes me as genuinely passionate about the hobby, rather than gw who, as they put it, "are in the business of making toy soldiers for children". In saying that, some models fw does are bizarrely priced compared to similar products. I really want a hell talon, but at literally twice the price of the hellblade? For basically the same model? Pfft. I do like the amount of literature they put out though, and the fluff is solid. The fact that they do etched brass should be a dead giveaway that they are a prestige outfit, and i think if you really want to track down custom mkii heads for your particular offshoot chapter of the mantis warriors then you're likely not in the business of complaining about money anyway.

 Ailaros wrote:
Nevermind, I change my previous statement. Forgeworld love is MOSTLY based on mindless exuberance.

Games workshop brings out expensive models with garbage rules and they're satan incarnate. Forgeworld brings out expensive models with garbage rules and they are to be loved and admired.

And people complain about people who like GW being the ones who've drunk the kool-aid...

Yep, ignore two people in row, and many others, giving out rational arguments and sound reasoning to just reduce it to validate your self projected image of others.

Productive.

I don't need to restate my points as they stand on their own merit. Two wrongs don't make a right. FW designed the issues you brought up for a different flavor of game and GW, making no course corrections, jammed them in regular gameplay. Multiple Times. Their books are of much, much lower value in terms of actual production and content. Their models are meant for mass consumption versus center piece or iconic figures, yet are nearly the same price as the boutique side of the house...

...I can go on. It's all valid and backed by fact. But let's just ignore all that and label anyone with criticism as a "complainer" or "whiner."

Oh, and the FW painting guides are actually about personal growth to acheive truly studio quality miniatures that can compete if you choose. The GW ones are absolute garbage for too much money. Painting marine eyes is literally "paint a white dot, wash with red. Ta-Da!"

Several things FW does, that GW does not.

1. FW actually talks to the community. There was some event a week or so ago where they showed their new Knight and some other sculpts beforehand - something I can't remember GW even trying to do.

2. FW offers free stuff. They bring out FAQs, Experimental rules and unit updates for free in their DL section, while GW changed from rare and late FAQs to cost-intensive dataslates for stuff that by rights should be in a codex allready.

3. Quality. FW stuff is gorgeous. It costs a ton, to a degree that a lot of players wouldn't even by it for half the price, but man, those sculpts look nice. I don't know about their fantasy section but I have yet to see one 40k or 30k modell that is ugly sculpted. Design issues asside, the details are superb.

 Ailaros wrote:
Plus, there is also a bit of mindlessness to the exuberance.

Let's not forget that forgeworld created fliers and superheavies which were both put into 40k with virtually no modification, and those are two of the things that are rightly complained about now. Forgeworld has also produced some of the worst game balanced units as well, and then those units, terrible balance at all, have been copied unmodified into 40k.

Um, no.

Forgeworld flyer rules originally were very different from the 6E rules for flyers, GW did modify them tremendously. GW's rules for the individual flyers themselves were also not as good, the Valkyrie was nearly 200pts and AV11 after kit under FW's rules, not 100pts and AV12. FW's original flyers rules had them move and shoot during the opponents turn (opponent moved, flyer(s) moved, opponent shot, flyer(s) shot, flyer(s) moved off the board, opponents assault phase) and were very different from how they were introduced in 6E.

Likewise, the D weapon rules are entirely GW's creation, while FW's original superheavy rules and points costs were significantly less impressive than they were when GW wrote them. For instance, the Turbo-Laser that the Warhound has was originally just blast Lascannon, not a "ignores all saves and autokills tanks" 5" blast. The Baneblade originally was 630somethign points and required a 2nd FoC to field , and had no 10" blast, GW's rules made it 500pts with a 10" blast main gun. It was GW that made Superheavies immune to 2/3rds of damage table results and gave them D weapons and allowed them to be taken in normal games, not FW.

No, sorry, fliers and superheavies have had a tremendous amount of modification by GW from FW's original rules. The only thing is that now that GW has unleashed the floodgates, FW hasn't tried to fix it on their own.


Meanwhile, while FW has had some balance hiccups, they get caught and fixed typically much faster than GW's, and happen far less frequently.

Forgeworld may have broken rules, but the models they make are top quality sculpture and casting.

Some of there units they make are the kind I hate my small budget!

I want to say I was wrong about previously said items. GW did not copy and paste FW rules and cram them in.

Per Vaktahi, they actively course corrected to make them worse and made them a part of standard play.

I apologize for my error.

If FW were a separate company doing their own game they'd be as villified as GW is now. They're only praised because they're better than their parent company, the most spiteful wargaming company in history, not because they're objectively good. Were they creators of Not-Warhammer instead, their exorbitant prices and poor quality casts would've been laughed out of the Internet.

FW has been bashed for lack of QC for years, giving us ill-fitting, malformed pieces, bubbles, and known for wearing out molds till they literally break down instead of replacing them as needed. Their books are poorly proofread and they often don't seem to grasp the rules of the game they write for.

On that front, they've been guilty of producing some of the most broken units ever, ignored chiefly due to few tournaments permitting them. Dread pods, LR Achilles, Saber Platforms, Hades Drill, R'Varna... Were those part of the main game, they would've been decried as much as Heldrakes, if not more so.

 -DE- wrote:
If FW were a separate company doing their own game they'd be as villified as GW is now. They're only praised because they're better than their parent company, the most spiteful wargaming company in history, not because they're objectively good. Were they creators of Not-Warhammer instead, their exorbitant prices and poor quality casts would've been laughed out of the Internet.

FW has been bashed for lack of QC for years, giving us ill-fitting, malformed pieces, bubbles, and known for wearing out molds till they literally break down instead of replacing them as needed. Their books are poorly proofread and they often don't seem to grasp the rules of the game they write for.

On that front, they've been guilty of producing some of the most broken units ever, ignored chiefly due to few tournaments permitting them. Dread pods, LR Achilles, Saber Platforms, Hades Drill, R'Varna... Were those part of the main game, they would've been decried as much as Heldrakes, if not more so.

I've heard a lot of "the worst of times" and "the best oftimes" when it comes to FW resin models. I usually hear the worst stuff from older models, such as the Titans or older tanks, than the newer HH stuff. It may be related to mold breakdown.

Either company in comparison to a competitior, however, I fully agree. FW is the better company between the two, but other mini wargaming companies blow them out of the water in terms of customer service.

FW HH stuff is super pretty, though....

Just to clarify, I didn't start this thread to criticise FW in - I'm a huge fan, and own a Warhound Titan, Decimator, Hell Talon, Avenger Strike Fighter, Solomon Lok, and some Thallax, all of which I love I don't see a difference in terms of quality from the parent company, but design is definitely superior.

It just interests me that many who seem to really dislike GW and are very critical of direction the game is taking are at the same time strong supporters of it's subsidiary. 30k follows the same game mechanics, and FW has prices that are, if anything, even more expensive than the parent company. GW are criticised for not being quick enough with FAQs and errata, while FW only updates some models in IA books [I'd have to spend £48 to find out that an Avenger now has 3 hull points]. FW introduced flyers as models, and super heavies into standard games. How do they escape the flack?

Finally, every penny spent on FW goes into the GW pot. I also wonder if people that would never buy a GW model out of principle happily spend hundreds on FW models?

Oh, and FW don't ALWAYS get it right...

All arguments aside, I think it's primarily because GW is the core market for the audience and FW is boutique.

Even if FW was murdering kittens and selling models that gave you cancer, no one would care because most of our armies are purely GW based; the root of our problems of the game are with GW.

I have Solomon Lok, Hektor Rex, some upgrade kits for a LR and Rhino, and a Revenant Titan. Also, the Masterclass Painter Vol 1.

There are probably very few people who spend money on FW, and if they are, it's for the love of the model more than the game. The people just buying Sabre Platformers will use "third party suppliers" negating the cost concern and the internet is their "library" of books.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Plus, there is also a bit of mindlessness to the exuberance.

Let's not forget that forgeworld created fliers and superheavies which were both put into 40k with virtually no modification, and those are two of the things that are rightly complained about now. Forgeworld has also produced some of the worst game balanced units as well, and then those units, terrible balance at all, have been copied unmodified into 40k.

Um, no.

Forgeworld flyer rules originally were very different from the 6E rules for flyers, GW did modify them tremendously. GW's rules for the individual flyers themselves were also not as good, the Valkyrie was nearly 200pts and AV11 after kit under FW's rules, not 100pts and AV12. FW's original flyers rules had them move and shoot during the opponents turn (opponent moved, flyer(s) moved, opponent shot, flyer(s) shot, flyer(s) moved off the board, opponents assault phase) and were very different from how they were introduced in 6E.

Likewise, the D weapon rules are entirely GW's creation, while FW's original superheavy rules and points costs were significantly less impressive than they were when GW wrote them. For instance, the Turbo-Laser that the Warhound has was originally just blast Lascannon, not a "ignores all saves and autokills tanks" 5" blast. The Baneblade originally was 630somethign points and required a 2nd FoC to field , and had no 10" blast, GW's rules made it 500pts with a 10" blast main gun. It was GW that made Superheavies immune to 2/3rds of damage table results and gave them D weapons and allowed them to be taken in normal games, not FW.

No, sorry, fliers and superheavies have had a tremendous amount of modification by GW from FW's original rules. The only thing is that now that GW has unleashed the floodgates, FW hasn't tried to fix it on their own.


Meanwhile, while FW has had some balance hiccups, they get caught and fixed typically much faster than GW's, and happen far less frequently.

Ailaros reading this post...

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Plus, there is also a bit of mindlessness to the exuberance.

Let's not forget that forgeworld created fliers and superheavies which were both put into 40k with virtually no modification, and those are two of the things that are rightly complained about now. Forgeworld has also produced some of the worst game balanced units as well, and then those units, terrible balance at all, have been copied unmodified into 40k.

Um, no.

Forgeworld flyer rules originally were very different from the 6E rules for flyers, GW did modify them tremendously. GW's rules for the individual flyers themselves were also not as good, the Valkyrie was nearly 200pts and AV11 after kit under FW's rules, not 100pts and AV12. FW's original flyers rules had them move and shoot during the opponents turn (opponent moved, flyer(s) moved, opponent shot, flyer(s) shot, flyer(s) moved off the board, opponents assault phase) and were very different from how they were introduced in 6E.

Likewise, the D weapon rules are entirely GW's creation, while FW's original superheavy rules and points costs were significantly less impressive than they were when GW wrote them. For instance, the Turbo-Laser that the Warhound has was originally just blast Lascannon, not a "ignores all saves and autokills tanks" 5" blast. The Baneblade originally was 630somethign points and required a 2nd FoC to field , and had no 10" blast, GW's rules made it 500pts with a 10" blast main gun. It was GW that made Superheavies immune to 2/3rds of damage table results and gave them D weapons and allowed them to be taken in normal games, not FW.

No, sorry, fliers and superheavies have had a tremendous amount of modification by GW from FW's original rules. The only thing is that now that GW has unleashed the floodgates, FW hasn't tried to fix it on their own.


Meanwhile, while FW has had some balance hiccups, they get caught and fixed typically much faster than GW's, and happen far less frequently.

Ailaros reading this post...

What are you going on about?

 -DE- wrote:

On that front, they've been guilty of producing some of the most broken units ever, ignored chiefly due to few tournaments permitting them. Dread pods, LR Achilles, Saber Platforms, Hades Drill, R'Varna... Were those part of the main game, they would've been decried as much as Heldrakes, if not more so.

while FW justly deserves bashing for some things (Like QC as you mentioned), one will notice almost all of these things have been toned down mightily save for the Sabre. The Achilles was raised in price and dropped some of its invulnerability sillyness and now with HP's and the new transport rules is both easier to plink down and no longer able to control objectives (making it *way* easier to deal with and providing significantly less tabletop utility). The Dread Pods have been massively toned down, as has the R'varna (which is still *Experimental*), while the Hades was nerfed into uselessness almost two years ago.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 -DE- wrote:

On that front, they've been guilty of producing some of the most broken units ever, ignored chiefly due to few tournaments permitting them. Dread pods, LR Achilles, Saber Platforms, Hades Drill, R'Varna... Were those part of the main game, they would've been decried as much as Heldrakes, if not more so.

while FW justly deserves bashing for some things (Like QC as you mentioned), one will notice almost all of these things have been toned down mightily save for the Sabre. The Achilles was raised in price and dropped some of its invulnerability sillyness and now with HP's and the new transport rules is both easier to plink down and no longer able to control objectives (making it *way* easier to deal with and providing significantly less tabletop utility). The Dread Pods have been massively toned down, as has the R'varna (which is still *Experimental*), while the Hades was nerfed into uselessness almost two years ago.

Thudd Guns, bro. Thudd Guns.

Why rip on FW when we have Wave Serpents in 40K already?

 TheKbob wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 -DE- wrote:

On that front, they've been guilty of producing some of the most broken units ever, ignored chiefly due to few tournaments permitting them. Dread pods, LR Achilles, Saber Platforms, Hades Drill, R'Varna... Were those part of the main game, they would've been decried as much as Heldrakes, if not more so.

while FW justly deserves bashing for some things (Like QC as you mentioned), one will notice almost all of these things have been toned down mightily save for the Sabre. The Achilles was raised in price and dropped some of its invulnerability sillyness and now with HP's and the new transport rules is both easier to plink down and no longer able to control objectives (making it *way* easier to deal with and providing significantly less tabletop utility). The Dread Pods have been massively toned down, as has the R'varna (which is still *Experimental*), while the Hades was nerfed into uselessness almost two years ago.

Thudd Guns, bro. Thudd Guns.

If people are upset about Thudd Guns (which they didn't seem to be RT/2E or from 2006 when they reintroduced them until several months into 6E), they're going to rage at the Wyvern. it's 15ppm more and only S4 AP6 instead of S5 AP5, but gets sweet sweet to-wound rerolls, ignores cover, twin linked (so no required psychic support), and is an AV12 tank so doesn't care about Ld7 crew running away

 Vaktathi wrote:

 -DE- wrote:

On that front, they've been guilty of producing some of the most broken units ever, ignored chiefly due to few tournaments permitting them. Dread pods, LR Achilles, Saber Platforms, Hades Drill, R'Varna... Were those part of the main game, they would've been decried as much as Heldrakes, if not more so.

while FW justly deserves bashing for some things (Like QC as you mentioned), one will notice almost all of these things have been toned down mightily save for the Sabre. The Achilles was raised in price and dropped some of its invulnerability sillyness and now with HP's and the new transport rules is both easier to plink down and no longer able to control objectives (making it *way* easier to deal with and providing significantly less tabletop utility). The Dread Pods have been massively toned down, as has the R'varna (which is still *Experimental*), while the Hades was nerfed into uselessness almost two years ago.

I didn't mean they're all OP now, but over the years and editions, FW has been responsible for some of the worst designed units in the game. The reason why they aren't as vociferously complained about is because few people use FW. Meanwhile, Riptides and Wave Serpents are in every list.

It is due to superior customer service and the level of quality of their products.

Their customer service is excellent. They release rules updates for free including entire army lists. When you email them a rules question they email back an answer that is well thought out, explained, and consistent whenever they are contacted. They even give you all the content that you would have to pay GW white dwarf for for free in their blog, wesite, and notification emails.

The quality of their models is top notch. My favorite models are almost universally forgeworld. The books fluff, artwork, and quality are all great and the rules always match what the model is supposed to be like in the fluff.

The statement about them doing only astartes and mechanicum is false. They have done some Tau recently as well. Though in all fairness FW releasing schedule is by necessity much slower than GW so doig entirely new kits is a longer process for them. IoM get fast releases as they can reuse vehicle bodies as that is a thing in IoM vehicles. Most of the xenos stuff needs entirely new bodies and have to be done from the ground up. The mechanicum stuff is also so different as to be a new faction...oh, it is.

It's because FW is run semi-competently and doesn't hate/wage war on its own customer base. It also seems to actually give a damn.

Though that's slowly changing, as GW moves FW closer and closer to itself it is getting worse and worse.

I think it doesnt get a lot of hate because a lot of people rarely see a FW product in their life.

Its something many people have to be told about. I took my Malcador defender to the club and only 1 person knew what it was.

I know its not telling of the world view but in my experience many people dont even know about 99% of FW products except titans.

Its hard to complain about something you know nearly nothing about.

I have many products from FW including the Reaver Titan. BUT I have a few complaints personally about them such as:

Lack of details in regards to where to get rules (especially up to date rules). Even asking them I have got incorrect answers.

Poor out of the box quality. There is nothing worse than having to re shape your parts and scrub them clean. Let alone remove the flash (most comes off during the wash admittedly) and so on. Then I have noticed some bits stick well while other bits for no real reason take hours to stick. My FW hell hound took hours to bond, but my FW executioner tank took mere minutes. As someone who loves modeling buying genuine FW products is not fun to make. Fine cast is easier to work with! While the end result is great... its only great after a whole heap of work.

Price. Considering what I pay, I would expect not to get broken bits and more importantly not to get warped to hell parts.

Shipping takes forever here (its not a world wide problem) but it can be weeks before they even ship it. regardless if you purchased express shipping or not.



But that said, I do love the models and many of the rules. The rules for the models I like tend to be very disappointing, which just means people dont mind me using them.

They also offer a lot of variety that GW cant provide. Of course some factions are well treated compared to others but still.

All in all, I personally prefer buying from GW for a more enjoyable experience modeling wise if I had to choose between the two. Its a shame that recasters produce a better version of FW models, a problem you dont get with GW kits.

Another reason that I know has been touched on already, is that FW products tend to have a very narrow usage rules wise (except ones that are alternate GW models) and then some are worse in terms of model practicability.

I prefer FW overall (company wise), because I can always find something to wow the masses of those who dont know anything about it. But its just so impracticable and to assemble and use.

People who do buy from Forge world, generally know what they want and get what they want. Its not something most people can buy and test out. If you are buying a FW bit, chances are you know full well what you are getting and why. Leaves little room for complaint.

FW isnt perfect, but they are no way near as bad as GW is.

 Swastakowey wrote:


Poor out of the box quality. There is nothing worse than having to re shape your parts and scrub them clean. Let alone remove the flash (most comes off during the wash admittedly) and so on. Then I have noticed some bits stick well while other bits for no real reason take hours to stick. My FW hell hound took hours to bond, but my FW executioner tank took mere minutes. As someone who loves modeling buying genuine FW products is not fun to make. Fine cast is easier to work with! While the end result is great... its only great after a whole heap of work.

Price. Considering what I pay, I would expect not to get broken bits and more importantly not to get warped to hell parts.

Shipping takes forever here (its not a world wide problem) but it can be weeks before they even ship it. regardless if you purchased express shipping or not.

I have seen some "third party oprtions" for FW where they offered cleaner kits with better resin. That giant Tyranid bug titan thing? Biotitan? I have heard from folks who bought the FW that it cannot sustain itself under the weight of the resin. The legs will buckle or sag and the model becomes warped or damage. The more resourceful folks cast the same model, but with brass rods in the legs.

Now, after market stuff isn't legit, we all know this. A quick glance on eBay and we can take a good guess on what's real FW and what's not. I like supporting great model builders and I buy frequently from tons of them (just bought two Andrea figures over the weekend. Artist grade 54mm make GW stuff look affordable!).

But when your after market guys are figuring out ways to improve your model and still sell it for cheaper with faster shipping, I think your business practices might be a bit busted.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


Poor out of the box quality. There is nothing worse than having to re shape your parts and scrub them clean. Let alone remove the flash (most comes off during the wash admittedly) and so on. Then I have noticed some bits stick well while other bits for no real reason take hours to stick. My FW hell hound took hours to bond, but my FW executioner tank took mere minutes. As someone who loves modeling buying genuine FW products is not fun to make. Fine cast is easier to work with! While the end result is great... its only great after a whole heap of work.

Price. Considering what I pay, I would expect not to get broken bits and more importantly not to get warped to hell parts.

Shipping takes forever here (its not a world wide problem) but it can be weeks before they even ship it. regardless if you purchased express shipping or not.

I have seen some "third party oprtions" for FW where they offered cleaner kits with better resin. That giant Tyranid bug titan thing? Biotitan? I have heard from folks who bought the FW that it cannot sustain itself under the weight of the resin. The legs will buckle or sag and the model becomes warped or damage. The more resourceful folks cast the same model, but with brass rods in the legs.

Now, after market stuff isn't legit, we all know this. A quick glance on eBay and we can take a good guess on what's real FW and what's not. I like supporting great model builders and I buy frequently from tons of them (just bought two Andrea figures over the weekend. Artist grade 54mm make GW stuff look affordable!).

But when your after market guys are figuring out ways to improve your model and still sell it for cheaper with faster shipping, I think your business practices might be a bit busted.

Agreed. I mean I get that they need to supply rules and authors testers and the list goes on, but surely it doesnt take much effort to provide a more user friendly product. Its almost like they cast it as you buy it for all products, chuck it in the box ASAP and ship it as is after a quick tick box is done buy the guy chucking it in the box.

Its still usable and the models turn out great, but its just disappointing.