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 Sigvatr wrote:

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Gitsmasher wrote:

Then by that logic the quad gun is the same str as the scarabs firing it, and tau pulse rifes are str 3 ap- because the firewarrior is causing the wound and not the pulse rifle.....

Point us to the rule that says so, please.

point me to the rule that says the scarab is causing the wound and not the quad gun.

Necron codex p.29. Thanks bye.

Then this means the quad gun's stats isnt being used while calculating wounds/damage because the quad gun isnt cuasing any damage. So whatever str the scarab has is being applied to the target....

Don't let the door hit you on the way out

Might want to read up on the rules for gun emplacements.

Btw, where is the source for your claims? Forgot the page number?

Gitsmasher, please take this to YMDK if you are going to try and argue rules. I believe there was already two threads on this very topic.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Might want to read up on the rules for gun emplacements.

Know what? I've been trolled bravo on you!!! Though you also prove me right when I said tabletop gamers are considered to be societies rejects, and NEET by societies standards! Because what person with any social skills would argue about something like this?

I'm going outside.

Wait, would this work? More importantly, why would this work? I know the Scarabs have the rule not any weapon but it doesn't make any fluff sense to me. Is this not taking advantage of the current state of no FAQ-ness? I mean, we kind of have a precedent of Lilieth's penetrating BLADE working with gun emplacements and plasma grenades until an FAQ put a stop to it.

Also, if i allowed the Entropic Touch to carry over, how do the Scarabs see over the ADL to fire? Seems like a lot of rule bending for a sub-optimal unit.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Wait, would this work? More importantly, why would this work? I know the Scarabs have the rule not any weapon but it doesn't make any fluff sense to me. Is this not taking advantage of the current state of no FAQ-ness? I mean, we kind of have a precedent of Lilieth's penetrating BLADE working with gun emplacements and plasma grenades until an FAQ put a stop to it.

Also, if i allowed the Entropic Touch to carry over, how do the Scarabs see over the ADL to fire? Seems like a lot of rule bending for a sub-optimal unit.

Here are the past threads on this very topic

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/571738.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/571422.page

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Might want to read up on the rules for gun emplacements.

Know what? I've been trolled bravo on you!!! Though you also prove me right when I said tabletop gamers are considered to be societies rejects, and NEET by societies standards! Because what person with any social skills would argue about something like this?

I'm going outside.

While you're out there think of a coherent argument that doesn't involve childish jibes about social lives.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Might want to read up on the rules for gun emplacements.

Know what? I've been trolled bravo on you!!! Though you also prove me right when I said tabletop gamers are considered to be societies rejects, and NEET by societies standards! Because what person with any social skills would argue about something like this?

I'm going outside.

While you're out there think of a coherent argument that doesn't involve childish jibes about social lives.

And don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Hopefully, people with such a language / attitude won't linger for long.

Anyway, I don't think this is a very effective tactic. First of all, you got the LOS issue. You might place the gun outside of the fortification, but this also forces you to put Scarabs out in plain sight and makes it easy for an enemy to focus fire them. Secondly, why would you use Scarabs and not a generic squad of 5 Warriors? They aren't that expensive, but larger and can still use IWBB plus hold objectives. An easy target too, but more of a threat to your enemy. Thirdly: I have often used an ADL with my Royal Court. 4 Lanceteks, 1 Chronotek with the Chronotek firing the gun. Good cover saves, 3++ if desired, and direly needed AP2 fire along with another possible lasgun. Not too shabby. Expensive though.

It's nice for the ES ability, especially against MC like the cheesetide.

/e: Holy crap, Nemesor might even further buff them. Sweet jesus. Or a DL granting them PE.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hopefully, people with such a language / attitude won't linger for long.

Anyway, I don't think this is a very effective tactic. First of all, you got the LOS issue. You might place the gun outside of the fortification, but this also forces you to put Scarabs out in plain sight and makes it easy for an enemy to focus fire them. Secondly, why would you use Scarabs and not a generic squad of 5 Warriors? They aren't that expensive, but larger and can still use IWBB plus hold objectives. An easy target too, but more of a threat to your enemy. Thirdly: I have often used an ADL with my Royal Court. 4 Lanceteks, 1 Chronotek with the Chronotek firing the gun. Good cover saves, 3++ if desired, and direly needed AP2 fire along with another possible lasgun. Not too shabby. Expensive though.

It's nice for the ES ability, especially against MC like the cheesetide.

/e: Holy crap, Nemesor might even further buff them. Sweet jesus. Or a DL granting them PE.

well first is to your advantage. You hide most of the unit behind the wall where they can't be seen. On your movement phase you dart 1 scarab out to man the gun which lets him shoot it during the shooting phase, and intercept after your opponents movement phase. As that is the only scarab seen if they shoot it, it is the only model from your unit which can be killed.

Next turn rinse and repeat. Or if you fired a interceptor shot, just keep your head down for that turn.

secondly & thirdly you can do that as well if you'd like.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hopefully, people with such a language / attitude won't linger for long.

Anyway, I don't think this is a very effective tactic. First of all, you got the LOS issue. You might place the gun outside of the fortification, but this also forces you to put Scarabs out in plain sight and makes it easy for an enemy to focus fire them. Secondly, why would you use Scarabs and not a generic squad of 5 Warriors? They aren't that expensive, but larger and can still use IWBB plus hold objectives. An easy target too, but more of a threat to your enemy. Thirdly: I have often used an ADL with my Royal Court. 4 Lanceteks, 1 Chronotek with the Chronotek firing the gun. Good cover saves, 3++ if desired, and direly needed AP2 fire along with another possible lasgun. Not too shabby. Expensive though.

It's nice for the ES ability, especially against MC like the cheesetide.

/e: Holy crap, Nemesor might even further buff them. Sweet jesus. Or a DL granting them PE.

well first is to your advantage. You hide most of the unit behind the wall where they can't be seen. On your movement phase you dart 1 scarab out to man the gun which lets him shoot it during the shooting phase, and intercept after your opponents movement phase. As that is the only scarab seen if they shoot it, it is the only model from your unit which can be killed.

Next turn rinse and repeat. Or if you fired a interceptor shot, just keep your head down for that turn.

secondly & thirdly you can do that as well if you'd like.

Or they could just kill the Quad-gun with a wave serpent or two turn 1, leaving a squad of useless scarabs to be serpent shielded the moment they enter LoS.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hopefully, people with such a language / attitude won't linger for long.

Anyway, I don't think this is a very effective tactic. First of all, you got the LOS issue. You might place the gun outside of the fortification, but this also forces you to put Scarabs out in plain sight and makes it easy for an enemy to focus fire them. Secondly, why would you use Scarabs and not a generic squad of 5 Warriors? They aren't that expensive, but larger and can still use IWBB plus hold objectives. An easy target too, but more of a threat to your enemy. Thirdly: I have often used an ADL with my Royal Court. 4 Lanceteks, 1 Chronotek with the Chronotek firing the gun. Good cover saves, 3++ if desired, and direly needed AP2 fire along with another possible lasgun. Not too shabby. Expensive though.

It's nice for the ES ability, especially against MC like the cheesetide.

/e: Holy crap, Nemesor might even further buff them. Sweet jesus. Or a DL granting them PE.

well first is to your advantage. You hide most of the unit behind the wall where they can't be seen. On your movement phase you dart 1 scarab out to man the gun which lets him shoot it during the shooting phase, and intercept after your opponents movement phase. As that is the only scarab seen if they shoot it, it is the only model from your unit which can be killed.

Next turn rinse and repeat. Or if you fired a interceptor shot, just keep your head down for that turn.

secondly & thirdly you can do that as well if you'd like.

Or they could just kill the Quad-gun with a wave serpent or two turn 1, leaving a squad of useless scarabs to be serpent shielded the moment they enter LoS.

Awwww. . . you're no fun. I wanna believ some scarabs can gimmick a riptide to death :/

Ummm it is easy for a scarab to fire the Quad and have los. Place the Quad on the very last Aegis barricade. place half the scarab peeking out.

________QUAD__
_______________OO
Aegis___________OOOO
_______________srarabOO

You could place the quad gun on the edge of the wall and have the scarab pop out in front of the wall in base contact with the gun. The scarab is 90% going to die if shot at, but the rest are safe to take its place next turn.

Couldn't you even place the gun behind a wall so no ignores cover could even shoot gun and just peek the scarab half out of the edge of wall like I showed above?

It is the scarab firing the gun so the gun could be totally out of LOS right?

Almost, you can't have terrain within 3 inches of each other, so unless you are using a really flat quad gun, you shouldn't be able to completely hide the gun. Unless you were fighting on a board using tiles to add rolling hills. Put the wall on the top of the hill and the gun behind so it is obscured from units shooting up at it.

Been looking through other stuff to see if i can add anything else to the scarab quad gun and i think i've found something even better!

Use the Necron tomb citadel (fw) with two tesla destructers on it! Sure its 4x the cost (with both guns upgraded on the NTC) as a normal ADL BUT the scarabs and the guns gain a 3++ vs shooting attacks, an extra gun for twice the fun that have TESLA so with if you get a 6 that's three hits and on a vehicle that's THREE entropic strikes per 6 on the hit! AND they still have interceptor and skyfire. and there are TWO guns with all of this! The major down part is that the range is only 24 so only one is really gonna have the range to hit anything unless you place it near the middle of the battle field (good thing scarabs have 12 move!)

it IS a forgeworld thing so of course its polite to ask first before using it but using the smallest unit of scarabs and the NTC with both tesla destructors sum up to 475 for the smallest of units of scarabs! So one is paying out the nose for this.


So with the NTC instead of the ADL and with everything else we have:

bs2 str7 ap- assault 4, interceptor, skyfire, tesla, arc, PEE (D.lord with group), Tank hunter(given by zhandrek), entropic strike. All of that times two! Toss in a stalker marking something and that gives them twin-link shooting at the stalker's target.

i think we have hit critical mass with special rules. 8 special rules counting assault and 9 if adding in twin-link from a stalker.


Edit: Effective? yes efficient point wise? highly doubt it. but this is just a silly thought exercise any how on how many special rules we can get on scarabs.

Edit again: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/591674.page#6759238 is my YMDC on the does ES work with quad gun. Please go there to discuss and see my reasons why this works.

... why would you need to worry about the Scarabs if you're using the Tomb Citadel?
I mean, yeah, the Citadel comes with Scarab Hive, so it would add more bases to the unit, but the Tesla Destructors are autonomous, aren't they? They don't need a crew to fire them.
Plus, Tesla Destructors are already twin linked, why are you throwing a Stalker into the mix?
(and if you're concerned about firing distance and unconcerned with price, you might as well use Sentry Pylons instead).
Frankly, this entire thing has already hit superfluous/ridiculous mass...

 Gitsmasher wrote:

Though you also prove me right when I said tabletop gamers are considered to be societies rejects, and NEET by societies standards! ecause what person with any social skills would argue about something like this?

Uh, you. Apparently.

What about instant death? you dont have that rule.

@skoff tesla destructors are not twin-linked by default and the TD on the NTC are gun emplacements meaning they need someone to "man them" or in this case scarab them. The pylon isn't talekd about because it doesn't take the spot of the tesla destructors and doesn't need a crew to fire them either.


@pak40 is there a way we can give them ID? I know if they shoot at a t3 or less it's an ID shot if it wounds.

 Pak40. wrote:
What about instant death? you dont have that rule.

It's more a case of, "how can you GIVE them that rule".
If you're playing pure Necrons, I don't think that's possible.

Oberron wrote:
@skoff tesla destructors are not twin-linked by default and the TD on the NTC are gun emplacements meaning they need someone to "man them" or in this case scarab them. The pylon isn't talekd about because it doesn't take the spot of the tesla destructors and doesn't need a crew to fire them either.

Huh, that certainly makes the Tomb Citadel less appealing (... not that I was ever going to use it before, mind you).

It still has loads of stuff going for it that i think is worth it for necrons but this thread isn't the place for it.


To stay on topic this doesn't really add anything special to them and its just adding stuff for the sake of adding stuff (which was almost the entire point of this thread) but you could make them scoring with the other HQ guy. I don't remember his name on-hand

What's all the fuzz about? Sure, use entrophic strike - it's perfectly fine by RAW. Just make sure that your enemy doesn't mind the ruleset overriding common sence. I'd not allow this in a game to be honest.

The problem is why would you need this? You can glance out any vehicle with most part of your army at range anywayz. The combo is not very cheap. Scarabs can't score. So they're basically just standing there and lowering av of enemie's vehicles for the army that doesn't really need it that much.

 koooaei wrote:
What's all the fuzz about? Sure, use entrophic strike - it's perfectly fine by RAW. Just make sure that your enemy doesn't mind the ruleset overriding common sence. I'd not allow this in a game to be honest.

The problem is why would you need this? You can glance out any vehicle with most part of your army at range anywayz. The combo is not very cheap. Scarabs can't score. So they're basically just standing there and lowering av of enemie's vehicles for the army that doesn't really need it that much.

I imagine that this is mostly just done for the lulz/because you can.

 koooaei wrote:
What's all the fuzz about? Sure, use entrophic strike - it's perfectly fine by RAW. Just make sure that your enemy doesn't mind the ruleset overriding common sence. I'd not allow this in a game to be honest.

The problem is why would you need this? You can glance out any vehicle with most part of your army at range anywayz. The combo is not very cheap. Scarabs can't score. So they're basically just standing there and lowering av of enemie's vehicles for the army that doesn't really need it that much.

Wound a Riptide (or any other MC) and it loses its armor save for the rest of the game. Then tesla it to death.

Yep, might be brutal vs mc.

Well, on the other hand, you can just destroy the gun.

A) "Any model that suffers one or more unsaved Wounds from a WEAPON or model with this special rule-"

First off, Entropic Strike is an ability given to the Scarabs. The Quad Gun does not gain from benefits from the models firing it in this form. For the same reason a model such as Daemon of Slaanesh doesn't confer "Models with the mark of Slaanesh gain the Rending Special rule" to any ranged weapons they may attempt to use. It's vague, I know, but welcome to 40k.


B) "Any model that suffers one or more unsaved Wounds from a weapon or MODEL with this special rule-"

Models using Gun Emplacements substitute their shooting phase by instead of firing their own weapons, using a profile given to them for a gun emplacement (If provided).

One can argue if you don't even have a ranged weapon, you can't even use a Quad Gun in the first place due to this rule (Pg.105)

A) and B) apply because of Scarabs having the special rule and the special rule is not explicitely restricted to ranged attacks. Therefore, anything they do attack-wise has Entropic Strikes.