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 Wilytank wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
disallowing FMCs from getting cover saves would make nurgle prices kinda useless

Evading still nets them a 3+

Curious since I've never done it. Wouldn't evade mean no shots from them allowed since their only ranged arms are generally templates or absolutely nothing since they can't swap to normal flight? (just curious since can't remember. On top of that he could always just 12" move per turn still and then run)

Nurgle daemons have slow and purposeful so they can't run. Also, you can get life leech or smite from Biomancy which aren't templates.

Oh yeah forgot that the dp got that. I'm more used to CSM's side of the equation.

I'd like to see the total elimination of allies.

But I expect it will not change, or if it does, if anything, it will be expanded.

 jasper76 wrote:
I'd like to see the total elimination of allies.

But I expect it will not change, or if it does, if anything, it will be expanded.

7e: Everyone is now battle brothers with everyone.

Enjoy your Buffmander'd dakkafexes.

Allies are a really neat mechanic, and so long as you can't join ICs from one detachment with units from another, they're not that bad.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Allies are a really neat mechanic, and so long as you can't join ICs from one detachment with units from another, they're not that bad.

I would say IC from different codexs can't join. If a SM player addis in an allied detachment of space marines they should still be able to join because they are all still space marines.

Make the following items optional rules for the game and not mandatory, with equal legality:

Flyers/FMCs
Allies
Escalation
Death from the Skies
Stronghold

 StarTrotter wrote:


Alright then so I suppose we should make us have to roll shooting range next? See how far guns can fire. No I don't like variability. Not for warlord traits, not for psyker spells, not for charges. I'm fine with random damage rolls but a reliable charge rate is satisfying. The fact that all units have a 2d6 assault just isn't my cup of tea. The notion of a Terminator charging the same distance as a genestealer just isn't for me. Then again I'd enjoy to see more diversified movements per unit and that to help influence yoru charge rate.

As per deathstars I assumed it was because of their stupid good survivability combined with mobility.

Stupid good survivability = reliability
Stupid good damage ouput = reliability
Stupid good movement = reliable.

Reliability = bad

Ah alright then. Then again I'd prefer to see deathstars restricted. I always thought that they required a bit of luck but that might be more because of my knowledge of screamerstar which requires spamming divination, using a unit type that can actually work in CC, has a good shooting output, and Fateweaver to ensure that chances are unlikely for it to go wrong . Even then, there is a risk of them getting a 6++ for the turn and even their shots can become meaningless.

Then you have examples of how unreliability can go terribly wrong such as many of the non-divination, mainly pyromancy and I believe telepathy, that although they might have one or two decent powers, they are random and hard to get. Also, another example is chosen that struggle to get into CC and even when they did, their weapons just weren't reliable enough to be sure of anything. I mean, don't get me wrong, some randomness is fine but I just feel a level of variability between 2 and 12 is a tad bit extreme even if it averages around 7 without charging through cover.

allies should be Ok (at least some) but there should never be a time when characters can join other units. Not unless you create a new class of character (like Higher Command team). Too many bad combos, fixing that would be easy if there were fewer characters could do it successfully.

Pistols in CC, bring back assault from Deep Strike under controlled circumstances, drop stacking Blessings, broaden access to AA, revise most vehicle hull points upwards or otherwise make vehicles harder to destroy. Do something to make 90% of non-psyker characters more than just overpriced beatsticks, reduce access to AP2 shooting and improve access to AP2 melee.

That's the balance of it, though there are more tweaks I'd make if I could (Oh, wait, I can, but I'd need to convince people to play it with me).

 Vaktathi wrote:


Drop the "ordnance forces everything else to only shoot snapshots" restriction. It's a lame holdover from 3E that affects two vehicles (the Leman Russ and the Defiler) and really only impacts one (the Russ),

I agree the rule should be dropped, but it affects the Defiler a lot more than you give credit for. 2L Hflamer and Havoc launcher can't even fire after the battlecannon has sounded, that's worse than snap shots.

I'll have to agree. It's not really useful to Defilers, basically making its guns worthless by not even permitting you to fire them. It also doesn't help that the Defiler is even more overpriced than the LR (which is also not worth it). In general ordnance making things snapfire is not worth it.

Rejig the psychic power charts - nerf divination a little to bring it in line with the others. Maybe instead of re rolls it's only re roll 1s.

Change all the levels of ally to one step down. So Battle Brothers works like the current Allies of Convenience and so on. This would remove most of the super Deathstar ally combos.

Limit re rolls on saving throws.

Independent Characetrs can only join units of their own Type, so no jetpack commanders joining units of MCs, or bike commanders joining infantry.

I'd rather see Divination get a slight nerf and the rest get an overall buff.

If they have to keep allies in, either make everybody battlebrothers, make everybody battle brothers but restrict it so no unit overlap except maybe inquisitors, or at best everybody is allies of convenience. Overall I'd rather them see the door.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Make the following items optional rules for the game and not mandatory, with equal legality:

Flyers/FMCs
Allies
Escalation
Death from the Skies
Stronghold

terrible idea...
the first is the WORST... and death from the skies in the codex's now its not even an addon anymore... how do you eliminate that? ban 10% of codex units (more so if daemons, thats about 4 or so of the HQ options).. thats never going to happen... gw tries to sell models, so they arent taking away the big $$ that is flyers etc etc.
allies again. sells models, so they wont be taking that away.
escalation, allows the super expensive kits in the normal game.. here to stay.
i dont think stronghold assault actually have models to back most if any of them, i dont have that book.

again GW has gone the path of making it ALL allowed. this makes them money, so i think that its going to be a case of more adaptation, people are resisting change, and in some cases cool fair enough, but your suggestion really... all you need to do is house rule those kinds of things. instead of restricting the entire gaming community. limit your meta.

and i dont think divination itself needs a nerf. not even prescience, what needs the nerf is the way BB acts between codex's, IF you could only use blessings on units from that models codex it wouldnt neem anywhere near as bad. and are people forgetting what biomancy has in it? yet suddenly its people up in arms about prescience. and to be really fair, i think thats because of its use in the deathstars, rather than how it internally works within the single codex that the models came in.
eg id LOVE it in my CSM as a basic power, but to get it i need allies. remove the way Battle Brothers works and that slows it right down.