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Just a thread for people to post their wishes for 7. Note that this is not a proposal thread, just a "what you want" thread. Radical constructivism applies.

Mine:

Nerf invulnerable saves to 3+.
I say 3+ because daemons deserve some 3+ saves that aren't Mcs.

Units can assault out of an non-open topped transport providing it did not move already.

Disallow FMC from gaining area cover saves.

Allow the charge from outflank.

All units count as having moved 6" before the game begins.

What are yours?

disallowing FMCs from getting cover saves would make nurgle prices kinda useless

Fix assault

Unrealistic time?

Balance assault and shooting to be equal, improve Walkers, screw challenges, attempt to bring things to a somewhat balanced matter, reduce tendencies for 2+ re-rollable invulns to maybe a 3+ instead (2+ invuln is just way too good if not pricey to the excess), change D weapon rules, allow assault out of vehicles if not moved, reduce randomness in every way, improve psyker tables.

BrianDavion wrote:
disallowing FMCs from getting cover saves would make nurgle prices kinda useless

Evading still nets them a 3+

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
disallowing FMCs from getting cover saves would make nurgle prices kinda useless

Evading still nets them a 3+

Curious since I've never done it. Wouldn't evade mean no shots from them allowed since their only ranged arms are generally templates or absolutely nothing since they can't swap to normal flight? (just curious since can't remember. On top of that he could always just 12" move per turn still and then run)

That we have movement profiles.
2nd edition looks so fun....sorry

Nerf monstrous creatures. Or at least make the Walker Rules more appealing. Maybe give Walkers armor/invuln saves?

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Nerf monstrous creatures. Or at least make the Walker Rules more appealing. Maybe give Walkers armor/invuln saves?

I wouldn't say nerf MC. MC is a general term from sub par Chaos Daemon ones (certain ones like the Bloodthirster aren't as good as the rest albiet still not bad), Chaos ones like the Khornate prince (if you wanted this just grab the thirster), standard DP's with no upgrades, and a bunch of Tyranid MCs. The problem comes with Walkers being bad and some of the crazier good MC being just way too efficient (Riptide most obvious example)

I'd really like it if GW dropped HP's or dropped the damage table and gave vehicles a save. Having two overlapping kill mechanics is silly and punitive.

Vehicle assaults also need to be changed, they should not be the free tank kills they are now.

Vehicles also should at least be able to contest objectives, there's no reason why they should be the only unit type that can't, especially when MC's can.

Being able to assault out of non open topped transports needs to come back, otherwise it's just too impossible to get too many units into CC.

If they're going to include D weapons, nerf them FW style.

Jink as a whole needs some looking at, it's way too easy to abuse that mechanic on way too many units, especially units that don't really seem costed for it and which can enhance the save it provides. The fact that a Tau or Eldar army can bring all of their relevant firepower to bear and still sport a 4+ save in the open after moving is a bit silly. There's a very real divide between skimmer and non-skimmer units, and the Skimmer units are obviously superior, even at relatively similar costs and roles.

Jetbikes need to not be the ez-mode last minute objective grabbers they are now.

Allies obviously needs toning down and the allies matrix reworked. Space Marines and Tau have zero business being Battle Brothers.

Divination obviously needs to be looked at.

The ability for Skyfire weapons to engage non-flyer/skimmer targets needs to be decoupled from the Interceptor rule and really just shouldn't be a restriction, none of the AA units in the game would be terribly broken if they could fire at ground targets.

Dangerous Terrain tests need to mean something again. As is, for the units that really have to take it most of the time, it's irrelevant, and it shouldn't be.

Barrage wound allocation needs some working to prevent sniping.

Challenges should be dumped, the mechanic is never used to "forge a narrative" or for two characters to engage in epic combat, but rather almost exclusively used to "snipe" Ld supports, protect characters from masses of attacks, or two isolate a hugely killy guy so he plays no relevant part.

Rerollable 2+ invul saves need to go back to being the stuff of comic hyperbole. Hell, so do non-rerollable 2+ invul saves and rerollable 3+ invul saves.

Cover for Vehicles and MC's should work the same.

Dump the Kill Point mechanic already. It's only present in 1/6 missions now instead of being a 1/3 chance, but it's still a bad game mechanic. A drop pod should not be worth as much as a Land Raider.

Drop the "ordnance forces everything else to only shoot snapshots" restriction. It's a lame holdover from 3E that affects two vehicles (the Leman Russ and the Defiler) and really only impacts one (the Russ), which has had a mess of rules to try and get around it with varying success.

Stop classing large mechanical walking vehicles as Monstrous Creatures. If it's got a pilot, as opposed to being a creature in and of itself, it should be a vehicle.

Change terrain setup. Purchased fortifications should be placed at normal deployment, and terrain done before choosing deployment zones. Nobody uses the rulebook method for these things that I've ever seen.

Nightfight needs some adjustment and an exception for Barrage/non-LoS weapons allowed. The absurd 2+ cover saves possible on a routine basis are pretty silly. It also needs to not be in *every* game.

Allow assaults from outflanks as disordered charges.

I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of now.

Flyers shouldn't automatically have Skyfire. There should be a clear distinction between 'fighters' and ground attack craft - why is a Vendetta a better dogfighter than a Thunderbolt?

 Hedgehog wrote:
Flyers shouldn't automatically have Skyfire. There should be a clear distinction between 'fighters' and ground attack craft - why is a Vendetta a better dogfighter than a Thunderbolt?

Because a vendetta is a dogfighter, with a small transport capacity smushed onto it?

There is a very thin line between a fighter and a GAC as you call it in the kind of theme we have in 40k. The lines are blurred because it's much easier for it to be that way.

There are bombs, and there is the strafing run rule. There is also vector dancer. Maybe something like dogfighter - skyfire only, but +1 to BS.

Make the likes of Tyranids, Orks, Sisters, CSMs, and BA able to evenly compete with Tau, Eldar, Astra Militarum, Necrons, and Daemons.

Make CSM not 90% mediocre to bad with only really 3 or 4 worthwhile choices.

Not sure about all that Vehicle and MC stuff in this thread. Playing both Dark Eldar (Skimmers go BOOM!) and Tyranids I think the differences are very good.

I'd be OK losing area cover as long as we also lose the grounding tests to balance those out - and with the other things sure - long as we can also fire many weapons, transport other units for protection, and such. Really I think vehicles/flyers and MC's/ FMC's are pretty balanced each with good strengths and weaknesses, as always some instances of each will be better than others (Riptides) but lets not punish the group for the sake of the exceptions.
[More edit; A compromise on vehicle exploding removed could be a system where lower STR weaponry could stack to cause glancing hits. Exploding is important as some armies rely on a few higher STR only to take vehicles down, without it against armies which are fielding many vehicles they are suddenly in a pickle, Ill make it clear some armies rely on being lucky with explode results to take on other armies.]

I would like some sort of CC buff of shooting nerf. Problem lies with things like sweeping advance mechanic, choice armies can be wiped out units at a time, making it impossible for them to do anything without the opposition being able to shoot them down before entering close combat - we are in a very all or nothing situation here.

I would like to see the removal of SA all together, with rules which also make it easier to get into CC. However, you can still then have combat which lasts for 3 or more turns (Like Good CC V large units which can't be SA'd), needs to be some sort of ingenuous compromise.

Allies matrix - more open, but more restrictions on how armies interact, rules should be clearer. [Edit for clarity- I mean there should be more alliances possible, but the combinations which cause issues are where special rules and IC's can mix, basically, scrap battle brothers]


Other than those just fixing issues with current book. Hope hope hope hope hope.... =)

Battle brothers can't join each other's units. Kthxbye.

It would also be great if instead of randomly rolling off for things (warlord traits, psychic powers, etc) you would just pay points for whatever it was you wanted.

Fix assault to be 6+D6.

 Smirrors wrote:
Fix assault to be 6+D6.

I disagree. Assault distances are fine, it's just the number of times one is elligibl to assault that's broken.

I wouldn't say assault distances are fine. 2 inch charges are infuriating no matter what one says and really such a dramatic level of variability shouldn't exist.

 StarTrotter wrote:
I wouldn't say assault distances are fine. 2 inch charges are infuriating no matter what one says and really such a dramatic level of variability shouldn't exist.

Do you have any idea what makes deathstars so good?

It's what you're talking about.

Variability will be the way forward. Having reliable results does not make the game interesting, or enjoyinable.

Next thing you'll be telling me that 10 boltguns just outright remove a marine, and ignore the 8/27 chance that that doesn't happen.

I'd also hope that FW makes a gargantuan Super-Avatar of Khaine for the Eldar in apocalypse.

I dunno, it'd be awesome to field.

Even if current Apoc rules means that a super-heavy vehicle is pretty much always better than a Gargantuan creature, especially when D-weapons and Holo/Power/Void fields are involved.

You know what I want? Working walls. Walls that you actually can't move through since they are a goddamn physical object!

/rant

For the rest, I'd like area terrain to only provide a cover save to infantry (who are small enough to benefit), but likewise it shouldn't hamper the movement of the larger fellows. Also, I'd like rules for blowing up ruins

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
I wouldn't say assault distances are fine. 2 inch charges are infuriating no matter what one says and really such a dramatic level of variability shouldn't exist.

Do you have any idea what makes deathstars so good?

It's what you're talking about.

Variability will be the way forward. Having reliable results does not make the game interesting, or enjoyinable.

Next thing you'll be telling me that 10 boltguns just outright remove a marine, and ignore the 8/27 chance that that doesn't happen.

Alright then so I suppose we should make us have to roll shooting range next? See how far guns can fire. No I don't like variability. Not for warlord traits, not for psyker spells, not for charges. I'm fine with random damage rolls but a reliable charge rate is satisfying. The fact that all units have a 2d6 assault just isn't my cup of tea. The notion of a Terminator charging the same distance as a genestealer just isn't for me. Then again I'd enjoy to see more diversified movements per unit and that to help influence yoru charge rate.

As per deathstars I assumed it was because of their stupid good survivability combined with mobility.

 Kain wrote:
I'd also hope that FW makes a gargantuan Super-Avatar of Khaine for the Eldar in apocalypse.

I really like this idea. Back in the day (2e) I remember this guy being a total boss. Creep has made him a bit of a pussy sadly.

Allies table needs to be fixed. I think everyone agrees on roughly what needs to change there.

Barrage sniping should be removed. Simply remove the closest model to the firer regardless of where the blast hits.

Random wound allocation is too time consuming. Replace it with the new commissar mechanic.

Shooting could do with being less lethal, especially in the first turn. No idea how to do that.

Assault should be possible more often (most things which now prevent assault should just give disordered charges).

Psychic powers need balancing a bit. Probably just swapping the current primaris powers for other ones would fix most of the issues.

Look out sir! could use a nerf, especially for ICs. Make it just 4+ for everyone maybe, or at least 3+ for ICs.

Lots of little rules could do with clarifying or tweaking (precision shots, sniper, slow and purposeful).

New universal rules for repairing vehicles. No need to keep printing similar mechanics in half the codexes.

Mysterious objectives should give better bonuses. Make claiming an objective early more worthwhile.

Get rid of the rule that removing all an opponent's models from the table is an auto-win. So long as they still have reserves, they should still be able to play.

Allow auto-wins from controlling enough objectives, like if you control more than half the objectives on the table after turn 3, you win. Moving the relic off your table edge should be an auto-win too.

 Nurgle wrote:
That we have movement profiles.
2nd edition looks so fun....sorry

Only reason they got rid of movement profiles was it gave a free boost to SM way back then. Also now, who is going to move terminators 2 or 3" per turn? Who is going to move their SM 4" per turn? Not going to happen.

What I want, is I move/you move, I shoot you shoot.This way there is more interaction between the two opponents instead of one opponent talking to someone else while you are moving your units or talking on his cell phone and ignoring you.

MarsNZ wrote:

 Kain wrote:
I'd also hope that FW makes a gargantuan Super-Avatar of Khaine for the Eldar in apocalypse.

I really like this idea. Back in the day (2e) I remember this guy being a total boss. Creep has made him a bit of a pussy sadly.

He's bounced back a bit with the new book, but he's heavily overshadowed by Seers and the Duke...who isn't even from his codex (to be fair, the Duke is near Coteaz level good for utility purposes) , though the loss of eternal warrior was a bit of a slap in the face.

But if FW can make it's current beautiful Avatar sculpt, I'd love to see a Titan sized one capable of fighting An'ggrath, a Heirophant, or any close combat titan.

Davor wrote:

 Nurgle wrote:
That we have movement profiles.
2nd edition looks so fun....sorry

Only reason they got rid of movement profiles was it gave a free boost to SM way back then. Also now, who is going to move terminators 2 or 3" per turn? Who is going to move their SM 4" per turn? Not going to happen.

What I want, is I move/you move, I shoot you shoot.This way there is more interaction between the two opponents instead of one opponent talking to someone else while you are moving your units or talking on his cell phone and ignoring you.

Not keen on that idea, plus destroying the turn system is actually a major overhaul - would be nothing like 40k once you get out the other side, too many rules, special rules etc would have to change.

It would be like a CC army always playing second... always taking 2 rounds of shooting

Include the mechanic for Lords of War that is in the Horus Heresy series, not allowed in games of under 2000 points and may only spend 25% of your total points on one.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
disallowing FMCs from getting cover saves would make nurgle prices kinda useless

Evading still nets them a 3+

Curious since I've never done it. Wouldn't evade mean no shots from them allowed since their only ranged arms are generally templates or absolutely nothing since they can't swap to normal flight? (just curious since can't remember. On top of that he could always just 12" move per turn still and then run)

Nurgle daemons have slow and purposeful so they can't run. Also, you can get life leech or smite from Biomancy which aren't templates.