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 Peregrine wrote:

barnowl wrote:
The Razorsharks big edge against most of the mid tier flyers is the fact it can get better up the tail pipe shots on the other flyers. Not much good against the 3 tops, but decent against the rest.

So can the Barracuda. In fact, against AV 10 the Barracuda's burst cannons average 1.777 HP removed compared to the quad ion's 1.333, and the Barracuda doesn't allow jink saves.

Don't see much Forgeworld around here, but doesn't the Barracuda cost noticably more? EDIT: Not denying it is the better fighter.

barnowl wrote:
Don't see much Forgeworld around here, but doesn't the Barracuda cost noticably more? EDIT: Not denying it is the better fighter.

Nope. The Barracuda is actually the cheapest of the Tau flyers (other than the Remora, which isn't really the same kind of unit).

The Barracuda is far and away the best Tau flyer, being the best armed, cheapest and most resilient.

Of the two codex flyers, the Sunshark is far superior. I have run both in my list, in multiples no less (I rigged my kits up to be interchangeable) and have had far more success with the sunshark. The problem with the razorshark is that it is hideously inaccurate with BS3 and no means of twin-linking anything. You are going to miss a lot, and it is difficult to give it markerlight support (not to mentioned questionable, it is far more important to get that Riptide to land its shot).

The sunshark on the other hand as both its missile pods and its ion rifles twin-lined plus a networked markerlight. The thing can actually hit its targets. The small blast in particular are an excellent way to bring accurate s8 firepower against armored targets, from any angle no less, because as far as I can tell both the MP turret and the drones have 360 degree arcs of fire. It has essentially all the tricks of the razorshark, only its more accurate, and it has the bomb. Don't compare the bomb to the quad-ion gun, its the interceptor drones which provide similar fire power. The bomb is just a bonus, and allows the Sunshark to engaged two targets at once. Fly over some infantry, bomb them, and then fire the guns at your choice of flyer, vehicle or infantry. Sunsharks can actually make quite a mess of the enemy if left unchecked. They have a nice alpha as well: enter the board at combat speed, a shoot both missiles, two overcharge ion rifle shots along with the markerlight and the missiles at an enemy vehicle - it is a lot of firepower and can smoke anything short of AV14. Remember the drones are passengers, so while they are limited to snap shots at cruising speed they don't count against the four shot limit of the flyer either. They are a far cry from the insanely good flyers they IoM and Necrons seem to get, but they are still better than razorsharks and DA flyers.

Phanixis wrote:
The small blast in particular are an excellent way to bring accurate s8 firepower against armored targets

At least they would be, if you could use them. The drones are always forced to fire snap shots until they disembark*, which means they're less accurate than the fighter's BS 3 ion turret and can never use their alternate blast mode. This is an important fact that a lot of people overlook, the bomber's firepower is crippled until you disembark the drones and once you do disembark them they're an easy target for your opponent.

*Flyers must always move at cruising speed, and since drones fire as passengers this means that they will be limited to snap shots.

Just slow the bomber down to 18", which is combat speed and is still legal to fly at. Now the drones can fire at full BS and shoot the templates.

Phanixis wrote:
Just slow the bomber down to 18", which is combat speed and is still legal to fly at. Now the drones can fire at full BS and shoot the templates.

Then your bomber crashes and is destroyed for failing to move at least 18". It is simply not possible to move exactly 18" with mathematical precision, either you move over 18" and are moving at cruising speed, or you move under 18" and are destroyed.

 Peregrine wrote:

Phanixis wrote:
Just slow the bomber down to 18", which is combat speed and is still legal to fly at. Now the drones can fire at full BS and shoot the templates.

Then your bomber crashes and is destroyed for failing to move at least 18". It is simply not possible to move exactly 18" with mathematical precision, either you move over 18" and are moving at cruising speed, or you move under 18" and are destroyed.

You statement is ridiculous. Please look at page 426 of the BRB (dunno what page it is in the mini rulebook). It clearly says: Flyers (Zoom mode) -> Combat Speed -> can fire 4 weapons at full ballistic skill.

If flyers automatically crashed when moving at combat speed, there would be a "-" there.


GW clearly intends you to move 18" give or take the usual margin of error, and still have the flyer functional, else they would have spelled it out along the lines of "Flyers can only move at cruising speed during their movement phase".

By your logic players should also never move their infantry all the way upto 6" on their tape measure as there is a chance they will end up moving their model a fraction of an inch over the maximum move distance and thus make an illegal move.

 Sir Arun wrote:
If you ask Eldar players the'll tell you how they hate crimson hunters being glass cannons

Crimson Hunters are glorious. They're only glass cannons when played by a novice. A good player should be able to get his shots in without ever getting touched. Yay Vector Dancer.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Phanixis wrote:
Just slow the bomber down to 18", which is combat speed and is still legal to fly at. Now the drones can fire at full BS and shoot the templates.

Then your bomber crashes and is destroyed for failing to move at least 18". It is simply not possible to move exactly 18" with mathematical precision, either you move over 18" and are moving at cruising speed, or you move under 18" and are destroyed.

You statement is ridiculous. Please look at page 426 of the BRB (dunno what page it is in the mini rulebook). It clearly says: Flyers (Zoom mode) -> Combat Speed -> can fire 4 weapons at full ballistic skill.

If flyers automatically crashed when moving at combat speed, there would be a "-" there.


GW clearly intends you to move 18" give or take the usual margin of error, and still have the flyer functional, else they would have spelled it out along the lines of "Flyers can only move at cruising speed during their movement phase".

By your logic players should also never move their infantry all the way upto 6" on their tape measure as there is a chance they will end up moving their model a fraction of an inch over the maximum move distance and thus make an illegal move.

Problem is the Ion-cannons are not on the flyer but on the drones how count as "embarked passengers" so use the embarked passenger rules for shooting. GW probably intendeded them to be able to shoot, but botched the wording up on the rules.

I think the bomber has some cool ideas but tau have plenty of s5 ap5 weapons. Between the two I would pick the fighter because of the quad ion rifle.

barnowl wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Phanixis wrote:
Just slow the bomber down to 18", which is combat speed and is still legal to fly at. Now the drones can fire at full BS and shoot the templates.

Then your bomber crashes and is destroyed for failing to move at least 18". It is simply not possible to move exactly 18" with mathematical precision, either you move over 18" and are moving at cruising speed, or you move under 18" and are destroyed.

You statement is ridiculous. Please look at page 426 of the BRB (dunno what page it is in the mini rulebook). It clearly says: Flyers (Zoom mode) -> Combat Speed -> can fire 4 weapons at full ballistic skill.

If flyers automatically crashed when moving at combat speed, there would be a "-" there.


GW clearly intends you to move 18" give or take the usual margin of error, and still have the flyer functional, else they would have spelled it out along the lines of "Flyers can only move at cruising speed during their movement phase".

By your logic players should also never move their infantry all the way upto 6" on their tape measure as there is a chance they will end up moving their model a fraction of an inch over the maximum move distance and thus make an illegal move.

Problem is the Ion-cannons are not on the flyer but on the drones how count as "embarked passengers" so use the embarked passenger rules for shooting. GW probably intendeded them to be able to shoot, but botched the wording up on the rules.

embarked passengers inside a vehicle that moved at combat speed can shoot their weapons at normal ballistic skill

peregrine wants to argue that 17.99999999999999999999" leads to the flyer crashing, and 18.000000000000000001" leads to the flyer moving at cruising speed.

He wants to argue that people moving their Sun Shark 18" can only snapshot with its drones.

He might as well argue people that move their Sun Shark 18" can proceed to remove it from the table for having crashed.

Anyone who tries arguing Peregrine's position in the actual game in person likely is not worth playing or deserving of a whack to the head if they persist.

Peregrin tends to push the RAW point a little too far often, even if he has valid points. Usually i dont agree with him though lol.

Per BRB, there is no "range" of what is considered Combat vs Cruising Speed for fliers, it meerly says one is 18" other is max 36". Which leads me to believe that EITHER 18" barring the human error of 1/8th of an inch or so is the "combat speed" which allows the drones to fire, since theyre passengers for some god awful reason (also hurts normal vehicles), OR the flier is moving at Combat Speed unless it hits 36" and magically becomes Cruising. However the 2nd is a little far fetched, and just a good example of poor writing on GW's end. Hopefully in 6.5/7th ed if those rumors are true this gets fixed to give us a "range" to work with.

If i moved 19+, then i would be firing snaps. If i was able to with out a doubt say i measured 19" or more, i would fire snaps or make my opponents fire snaps. If it was 18" i would not give a damn if it was 18 1/2" or something like that, as being THAT precise with a ruler drags the game out too much. Thats why i also only measure 1-3 models of my FW squads the distance theyre moving, and just push the rest what seems right. Front of the squad didnt go any further, and i probably shorted myself more than helped so big deal lol it makes it go way faster.

It is rather annoying theyre considered passengers. Werent they actually considered guns in the last dex? not sure where mine walked off too so i cant ref that. It hurts my Piranhas too since i pretty much HAVE to disembark turn 1 or my gun drones are pointless as they will always fire snaps.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
It hurts my Piranhas too since i pretty much HAVE to disembark turn 1 or my gun drones are pointless as they will always fire snaps.

on the other hand the good thing is they dont yield VPs when destroyed, so basically it is you practicing Kauyon - baiting the enemy to waste one entire squad's firepower to taking a handful of drones out.

As already said, try the Barracuda and Remoras. Neither are 'OP lulz', but they do their job - and they do it good.

Yeah, I'm going to echo what many have said so far; Barracudas and Remoras are great fliers. The 'Cuda because it is basically a flying Ionhead that can take a bunch of seekers for lulz, and the Remora because it is dirt cheap for a flying markerlight with 2 seekers.

So yeah, basically the codex fliers are pretty gakky, but the FW ones (most recent rules are in IA3 2nd ed) are pretty awesome.

I thought the Barracuda is like 200 points?

 Sir Arun wrote:
I thought the Barracuda is like 200 points?

It was, in ancient rules. It has new rules in IA3 (second edition) that are much better.

My only issue with the FW fliers is typical FW issues - my pocket hurts looking at them lol. If you can afford it, by all means go ahead (assuming your FLGS isnt against it).

The barracuda is darn good but stupid expensive and some of my local FLGS don't permit FW (although my Sunsharks tend to perform well in the environment these FLGS create). Still no access to heavy armor hunting from the air though (short of the stupidly pricy superheavy tigershark) which is sorely needed.

It is rather annoying theyre considered passengers. Werent they actually considered guns in the last dex? not sure where mine walked off too so i cant ref that. It hurts my Piranhas too since i pretty much HAVE to disembark turn 1 or my gun drones are pointless as they will always fire snaps.

In the old codex they were separate from the guns but instead of firing like passengers they were simply permitted to fire whenever the vehicle was allowed to fire. That enabled Piranhas to fire them at cruising speed as well as any other vehicle equipped with multitrackers. Like the mutlitracker and they A.S.S., they were another casualty of the Tau army inexplicably becoming a gunline based force in the last codex update.

Groups that allow FW is harder to find than the money to get FW models lol. I dont even know if my FLGS cares because nobody even mentions the models in the sense of "Theyre cool!" let alone "I wanna bring this!" lol.

Very few things i want to buy/do buy from FW usually are proxied as a normal unit just so i can get the epic model lol. Thats what i do with my tau commanders.

Third option:

Look at other slots.

Or just ally in superior flyers. Necron allies provide you with two night scythes and a doom scythe in a single allied detachment along with some excellent scoring bodies (which can ride the night scythes). Or you can take the stormtalon formation that provide you with two stormtalons and a stormraven with no strings attached for some excellent anti-heavy armor firepower.

Phanixis wrote:
Or just ally in superior flyers. Necron allies provide you with two night scythes and a doom scythe in a single allied detachment along with some excellent scoring bodies (which can ride the night scythes). Or you can take the stormtalon formation that provide you with two stormtalons and a stormraven with no strings attached for some excellent anti-heavy armor firepower.

So... look at other slots?

Use slots you didn't even realize you had.

If you want a tau flyer then go for the barracuda. Best choice by a long way.