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What would you rather pick?
Razorshark Strikefighter
Sun Shark Bomber

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Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






So which one is better? I'm trying to compare the two?

Razorshark

The Razorshark is your standard run-of-the-mill 145 point flyer with relatively paper thin armor (think Piranha, but with 1 more hullpoint) and usual mediocre Tau ballistic skill, but sporting 2 seeker missiles, a burst cannon (can be exchanged for a missile pod for a couple more points) and a Quad Ion turret. The Quad Ion Turret can either give off four S7 AP4 shots or a single S8 AP4 large blast upto 30" away if you overcharge it. The Razorshark has access to the vehicle armory, but I cant seem to find any useful upgrade for this flyer. Except decoy launchers. They are a must, as they give your flyer a 4+ invulnerable save against weapons with "interceptor". So that fancy Quadgun or Icarus Lascannon of yours? Yeah, I can negate half the hits now. The disruption pod is pretty much useless, as it only gives it a default 6+ cover save in the open and when forced to evade, allows it to evade on 4+ instead of 5+.

The Razorshark's biggest strength is in its anti infantry role of dropping a high strength, large blast template each turn on unsuspecting infantry. Against flyers, it can move upto 36" and still launch 6 S7 AP4 shots as well as 2 S8 AP3 shots, all at BS3, all at once. After that, its anti-flyer firepower will be limited to 6 S7 AP4 shots at BS3.


Sun Shark Bomber

It is 10 points costlier than a Razorshark having replaced its burst cannon with a missile pod. It also comes with 2 seeker missiles and a missile pod, but the quad ion turret is replaced with the pulse bomb generator, that basically drops a large blast S5 AP5 bomb each turn until you roll a 1. This is a significant downgrade from S8 AP4 to S5 AP5 and on top of that, you lose the 30" range and have to now fly over the target squad to be able to "bomb" them. However, the Sun Shark also comes with 2 interceptor drones each carrying a twin-linked Ion Rifle. These drones can disembark anytime during the Sun Shark's movement, can turbo boost and also have the skyfire special rule. Lastly, the Sun Shark Bomber can upgrade its missile pod to a twin-linked missile pod for very cheap. As if all of this wasn't enough, the Sun Shark Bomber also comes with a networked markerlight. As you can see, the Sun Shark has both anti-infantry (of course, not as potent as the overcharged quad ion turret, and it has to fly over the target squad to drop the bomb) as well as anti-flyer weapons - the total firepower output from a Razorshark is the S5 AP5 large blast bomb, 2 seeker missiles, and then either 2 tl-S7 AP4 shots at BS3 and 2tl-S7 AP4 shots at BS2 (2 from the missile pod, 2 from both ion rifles) or 2-tl S7 shots at BS3 and 2 tl-S8 AP4 small blasts at BS2 if you overcharge both ion rifles. The chance of overheating from overcharging the ion rifles is extremely small as they are both twin-linked.

Now compare this to the S8 AP4 large blast OR 2 seeker missiles and 6 S7 AP4 shots (resulting in 1 seeker missile and 3 quad ion / missile pod hits) and you'll see that the Sun Shark bomber has slightly less AT-firepower (also 1 seeker missile, but only a total of 2.61 tl-missile pod / tl-ion rifle hits), as well as similar anti-infantry firepower (a S5 AP5 large blast, and 2 tl-S8 AP4 small blasts are better than a single S8 AP4 large blast). All you need to do is point the networked markerlight before firing and then it will also have better anti-tank firepower as well (this time, equalling 1.33 seeker missile hits and 3.54 tl-MP/tl-ion rifle hits (remember that the interceptor drones also benefit from the networked markerlight). If you manage to get within 15", you can actually double the firepower of the Ion Rifles against flyers as they are rapid fire. The only downside is that the Sun Shark Bomber can only move 18" if it wants to fire with both interceptor drones at normal BS, while the Razorshark Strike Fighter can move upto 36" and still fire everything at normal BS. However, I wouldnt really call this a huge limitation, given the downgrade from BS2 to BS1 is hardly noticeable compared to usual snapshot penalties suffered by other armies (e.g. Space Marines going from BS4 down to BS1). The only thing that really affects you is you lose the ability to overcharge your Ion Rifles at such speeds as blast markers cannot be snapfired.

This message was edited 12 times. Last update was at 2014/05/05 14:10:34


2000 l 2000 l 2000 l 1500 l 1000 l 1000 l Blood Ravens (using Ravenguard CT) 1500 l 1500 l
Eldar tactica l Black Templars tactica l Tau tactica l Astra Militarum codex summary l 7th ed summary l Tutorial: Hinged Land Raider doors (easy!) l My blog: High Gothic Musings
 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut






 Sir Arun wrote:
So which one is better?


Riptide

In before thread lock. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Sir Arun wrote:
So which one is better?


Barracuda.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator





Mountain View, CA

 Sir Arun wrote:
So which one is better? I'm trying to compare the two?


Riptide or Barracuda. Tau codex air is complete rubbish....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/03 19:50:13



Armies I field - Tau, Dark Angels, Necrons, Blood Angels  
   
Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






 Ministry wrote:
 Sir Arun wrote:
So which one is better? I'm trying to compare the two?


Riptide or Barracuda. Tau codex air is complete rubbish....


I think the flyers are better than the Dark Angel ones and arguably on par with the Stormtalon, although the latter is better armored and costs around 30 points less, but unlike any other flyers, the Tau flyers have 4+ invulnerable saves against things like Quadguns and Icarus Lascannons, so that's something.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/03 19:58:13


2000 l 2000 l 2000 l 1500 l 1000 l 1000 l Blood Ravens (using Ravenguard CT) 1500 l 1500 l
Eldar tactica l Black Templars tactica l Tau tactica l Astra Militarum codex summary l 7th ed summary l Tutorial: Hinged Land Raider doors (easy!) l My blog: High Gothic Musings
 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Sir Arun wrote:
I think the flyers are better than the Dark Angel ones


But that's not saying much. Being slightly better than the worst flyer in the game doesn't make a unit good (or even playable).

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






At least I dont really have to worry about gun emplacements blasting me out of the sky as much as other flyers do.

2000 l 2000 l 2000 l 1500 l 1000 l 1000 l Blood Ravens (using Ravenguard CT) 1500 l 1500 l
Eldar tactica l Black Templars tactica l Tau tactica l Astra Militarum codex summary l 7th ed summary l Tutorial: Hinged Land Raider doors (easy!) l My blog: High Gothic Musings
 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

 Peregrine wrote:
 Sir Arun wrote:
I think the flyers are better than the Dark Angel ones


But that's not saying much. Being slightly better than the worst flyer in the game doesn't make a unit good (or even playable).

The Arvus Lighter takes offence to mere pretenders to the title of worst flier being given that dubious honor.


 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in fi
Focused Fire Warrior




Helsinki

HUZZAH for the arvus, almighty conqeror of the skies!

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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





All the tau players I know use razorsharks.

As to why I couldn't say but I have never seen a bomber on the tabletop.

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Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






probably because of the fact that it has to move over the enemy squad to bomb it compared to the convenient 30" range of the quad ion turret and it also being S8 AP4 and also doing reasonably well against flyers with 6 S7 AP4 shots (together with the missile pod)


The sun shark is more like an eldar flyer - situational, more unpredictable, but far deadlier when the stars are right.

2000 l 2000 l 2000 l 1500 l 1000 l 1000 l Blood Ravens (using Ravenguard CT) 1500 l 1500 l
Eldar tactica l Black Templars tactica l Tau tactica l Astra Militarum codex summary l 7th ed summary l Tutorial: Hinged Land Raider doors (easy!) l My blog: High Gothic Musings
 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Kain wrote:
The Arvus Lighter takes offence to mere pretenders to the title of worst flier being given that dubious honor.


The Arvus is at least dirt cheap and has no need to pretend to be more than a Rhino with wings. The Tau and DA flyers have no such excuse.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in br
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

A S5 AP5 bomb is less interesting than a S8 AP4 blast (even with the chance of gets hot). The Network Markerlight is interesting on the Sun Shark, but Skyrays use it better.
Barracudas and Remoras are the best stuff Tau can put in air before Apoc (well, Escalation brings the two Tigershark flavours - the FW one is worth taking to the game)

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 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator





 Peregrine wrote:
 Kain wrote:
The Arvus Lighter takes offence to mere pretenders to the title of worst flier being given that dubious honor.


The Arvus is at least dirt cheap and has no need to pretend to be more than a Rhino with wings. The Tau and DA flyers have no such excuse.


Isn't the Arvus supersonic? Or has that been FAQed so there is actually a way to get the unit inside out without a crash?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Razorsharks big edge against most of the mid tier flyers is the fact it can get better up the tail pipe shots on the other flyers. Not much good against the 3 tops, but decent against the rest.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






barnowl wrote:
The Razorsharks big edge against most of the mid tier flyers is the fact it can get better up the tail pipe shots on the other flyers. Not much good against the 3 tops, but decent against the rest.


So can the Barracuda. In fact, against AV 10 the Barracuda's burst cannons average 1.777 HP removed compared to the quad ion's 1.333, and the Barracuda doesn't allow jink saves.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut






 Peregrine wrote:
barnowl wrote:
The Razorsharks big edge against most of the mid tier flyers is the fact it can get better up the tail pipe shots on the other flyers. Not much good against the 3 tops, but decent against the rest.


So can the Barracuda. In fact, against AV 10 the Barracuda's burst cannons average 1.777 HP removed compared to the quad ion's 1.333, and the Barracuda doesn't allow jink saves.


I still vote riptide!

In before thread lock. 
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant





Canada

Heldrake

Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.

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Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

I'll admit theyre not totally unusable in the bad department, either one of them, but its still pretty crap for the cost and comparison in jobs. Neither are really specialized in any specific kind of work, theyre kinda jack of all trades and not good at any.

I will never field them because in order to bring them i have to cut back on suits or skyrays, which to the same job BETTER than the fliers and are more durable. AV10 flier is not durable, dont care about the Hard to Hit rule it means nothing with the entire enemy army can glance it to death lol. Only reason i still use Dakkajets is because they at least have a chance to wipe out a LOT of crap before going up in smoke.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

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Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





Where is the "neither" option?
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Grand Rapids Metro

...could not bring myself to vote.

Are these Forgeworld units? Should Vespid be on this list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Serious note: if you must...take the one with interceptor drones. Dump the plane...those drones are gold.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/05 14:01:33


Come play games in West Michigan at https://www.facebook.com/tcpgrwarroom 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Bismarck ND

 ductvader wrote:
...could not bring myself to vote.

Are these Forgeworld units? Should Vespid be on this list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Serious note: if you must...take the one with interceptor drones. Dump the plane...those drones are gold.

If you could only take the drones by themselves!
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

They should be allowed to be taken on their own. Interceptor Drones are pretty terrifying, but the cost to get 2 of them is not worth it because it factors in the crap plane too lol

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






Am I missing something? Why are interceptor drones so good?

They are 1 model with a crappy drone profile that has a BS2 tl-S7 single shot weapon with 30" range that can fire at flyers when they enter the board

2000 l 2000 l 2000 l 1500 l 1000 l 1000 l Blood Ravens (using Ravenguard CT) 1500 l 1500 l
Eldar tactica l Black Templars tactica l Tau tactica l Astra Militarum codex summary l 7th ed summary l Tutorial: Hinged Land Raider doors (easy!) l My blog: High Gothic Musings
 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




United States of America

I would chose neither, they are bother crappy, and expensive.

Play eldar for good flyers, or SM, or CSM, or orks.. In fact anyone but DA or Tau.

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Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






 Arbiter wrote:
I would chose neither, they are bother crappy, and expensive.

Play eldar for good flyers, or SM, or CSM, or orks.. In fact anyone but DA or Tau.


1. Heldrake
2. Stormraven
3. Vendetta
4. Valkyrie


apart from these in the above order I dont think there are any flyers worth playing.

If you ask Eldar players the'll tell you how they hate crimson hunters being glass cannons and hemlock wraithfighters being an absolute waste of points unless played by an expert who knows his shizz and uses it to break formations

2000 l 2000 l 2000 l 1500 l 1000 l 1000 l Blood Ravens (using Ravenguard CT) 1500 l 1500 l
Eldar tactica l Black Templars tactica l Tau tactica l Astra Militarum codex summary l 7th ed summary l Tutorial: Hinged Land Raider doors (easy!) l My blog: High Gothic Musings
 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

 Sir Arun wrote:
 Arbiter wrote:
I would chose neither, they are bother crappy, and expensive.

Play eldar for good flyers, or SM, or CSM, or orks.. In fact anyone but DA or Tau.


1. Heldrake
2. Stormraven
3. Vendetta
4. Valkyrie


apart from these in the above order I dont think there are any flyers worth playing.

If you ask Eldar players the'll tell you how they hate crimson hunters being glass cannons and hemlock wraithfighters being an absolute waste of points unless played by an expert who knows his shizz and uses it to break formations

*Cough*Necron croissants*Cough*


 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in gb
Hallowed Canoness





Between

Sunshark. It comes with Interceptor Drones, which are almost worth half the cost of the plane.



"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




United States of America

 Sir Arun wrote:
 Arbiter wrote:
I would chose neither, they are bother crappy, and expensive.

Play eldar for good flyers, or SM, or CSM, or orks.. In fact anyone but DA or Tau.


1. Heldrake
2. Stormraven
3. Vendetta
4. Valkyrie


apart from these in the above order I dont think there are any flyers worth playing.

If you ask Eldar players the'll tell you how they hate crimson hunters being glass cannons and hemlock wraithfighters being an absolute waste of points unless played by an expert who knows his shizz and uses it to break formations


Come on, I know I'm not the only eldar player in the world who knows how to use a crimson hunter, they are simple and effective and therefore should be included in your list, along with flying carbohydrates.

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Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

There are other viable planes besides those 4 listed, however those 4 are the issue units. They are the ones that force the others to be sub-par and crappy because GW decided to give us answers to those 4 birds rather than nerf said birds.

What is designed to take out a Stormraven will inevitably annihilate anything smaller just by looking at it. Some of the smaller planes, namely necron bread-planes, are only viable because they can be spammed and can avoid most of the AA by providing too many targets. That is assuming perfect odds, of course.

Outside the non-dakkajet ork fliers or the Tau Sunshark Fighter, theyre all useful in their own way....its just once they face something designed to take out the 4 terrors they dont stand a chance.

First thing i thought when i saw the Fighter was "Wtf is this thing suppose to do?" lol. Shorter ranged Ionhead with less armor and BS, costs more, available less since it WILL have turns it isnt around or unable to hit something worth shooting, and its in the FA slot (which hurts me personally as i always have 2 PF squads as it is). Fighter should have been geared to take out other fliers, yet it struggles with AV10 as it is (AP4 so no pen bonus, and lack of shots to reliably glance to death)

EDIT: Also to the guy wondering why interceptor drones are any good - its because they can zip to the other side of the table ala 24" "turbo-boost" and they have a twinlinked ion rifle, which is actually a pretty painful gun its just only available to interceptor drones or pathfinders so its seen as rarely as ork's KMB lol

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/05 21:32:47


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

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