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Why not just take Chaos Marines & Chaos Sorcerers and only perils on 6s?

Well to bring it back to FOC from the psychics perils. Yes the FOC is that flexible. I was looking at the Strike Force Ultra Formation and noticed it include the SM Chapter Tactics and wonder why since it was not the primary detatchment.

That lead me to two realization when I checked Battleforged and Unbound. First is that in a Battleforged Army you are _not _required_ to use a CAD. Second you could use a Formation as your Primary. So you could use HammerFall Strike as your Primary, thus needing Chapter Tactics,

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Why not just take Chaos Marines & Chaos Sorcerers and only perils on 6s?

Because only Daemons don't perils on any double.

Psykers with the Daemon special rule can manifest Malefic powers as they would any other psychic power, but they cannot generate Sanctic powers at all.
All other Psykers that attempt to manifest Malefic powers suffer Perils of the Warp on a Psychic test that includes any double, whether the Psychic test was successful or not.

Huh, I thought it was non-Chaos. Guess I was thinking DPs anyway.

That's dumb. Sorcerers should be able to summon better than Libbys.

Agreed, but that's not how it's written.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Chaos Daemons codex Page 94: "Each Primary(FAQ deletes this word) detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from the following models:"

4 only per detachment, Per the codex.

You didn't read the rest of the text though.

It says this: Chaos Daemons codex Page 94: "Each Primary(FAQ deletes this word) detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from the following models:"

Then it lists the Heralds, then it says this:

"This selection uses a single HQ slot from the Force Organization chart, but the Heralds are otherwise treated as separate units"

So the whole thing tells you that you may have 4 per HQ slot.

No, it says you may have up to 4 heralds total, and that they only take up one slot. You can still only have 4 total per detachment.

 spycer wrote:
No, it says you may have up to 4 heralds total, and that they only take up one slot. You can still only have 4 total per detachment.

It does not say that you may only have 4 heralds in a single detachment.

"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos" Sure sounds like it does to me.

 spycer wrote:
"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos" Sure sounds like it does to me.

that is not the whole of the rule though. and nowhere in that statement does it say "Only"


"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos"

is not the same as

Each detachment in your army may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 spycer wrote:
"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos" Sure sounds like it does to me.

that is not the whole of the rule though. and nowhere in that statement does it say "Only"


"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos"

is not the same as

Each detachment in your army may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos.

If you include a 5th Herald, where are you getting permission?
I see permission for 4, I don't see permission for more than 4.

The permission is from the force org chart.

I can make 2 HQ selections.

the four heralds use 1 HQ selection, I can make one more HQ selection.

there is the permission.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The permission is from the force org chart.

I can make 2 HQ selections.

the four heralds use 1 HQ selection, I can make one more HQ selection.

there is the permission.

There is your permission for a 2nd HQ, that is NOT permission to exceed four heralds.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The permission is from the force org chart.

I can make 2 HQ selections.

the four heralds use 1 HQ selection, I can make one more HQ selection.

there is the permission.

If you select 5 heralds for your detachment, have you selected up to 4?
Because the rule doesn't say up to 4 per HQ slot - it says per detachment, which includes all HQ slots in that detachment.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 spycer wrote:
"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos" Sure sounds like it does to me.

that is not the whole of the rule though. and nowhere in that statement does it say "Only"


"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos"

is not the same as

Each detachment in your army may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos.

I don't know if you intended this, but the way this sentence is written makes it seem like each detachment may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos and nothing else. I don't think you meant this, but it came off like this when I read it.

 don_mondo wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The permission is from the force org chart.

I can make 2 HQ selections.

the four heralds use 1 HQ selection, I can make one more HQ selection.

there is the permission.

There is your permission for a 2nd HQ, that is NOT permission to exceed four heralds.

It does not say that you are limited to ONLY 4 heralds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lobomalo wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 spycer wrote:
"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos" Sure sounds like it does to me.

Each detachment in your army may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos.

I don't know if you intended this, but the way this sentence is written makes it seem like each detachment may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos and nothing else. I don't think you meant this, but it came off like this when I read it.

Please do not quote only part of my post, changing the context is disingenuous.

rigeld2 wrote:

If you select 5 heralds for your detachment, have you selected up to 4?
Because the rule doesn't say up to 4 per HQ slot - it says per detachment, which includes all HQ slots in that detachment.

Actually that is exactly what the rules say if you read all of the rules.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The permission is from the force org chart.

I can make 2 HQ selections.

the four heralds use 1 HQ selection, I can make one more HQ selection.

there is the permission.

There is your permission for a 2nd HQ, that is NOT permission to exceed four heralds.

It does not say that you are limited to ONLY 4 heralds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lobomalo wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 spycer wrote:
"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos" Sure sounds like it does to me.

Each detachment in your army may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos.

I don't know if you intended this, but the way this sentence is written makes it seem like each detachment may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos and nothing else. I don't think you meant this, but it came off like this when I read it.

Please do not quote only part of my post changing the context is disingenuous.

Apologies, I will correct this.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The permission is from the force org chart.

I can make 2 HQ selections.

the four heralds use 1 HQ selection, I can make one more HQ selection.

there is the permission.

There is your permission for a 2nd HQ, that is NOT permission to exceed four heralds.

It does not say that you are limited to ONLY 4 heralds.

Nope, it doesn't. It says up to 4. So you can have 1, 2, 3 or 4. But 5 or more is more than, not up to, so is not allowed. Number of HQ slots does not matter, key is UP TO FOUR.

 Lobomalo wrote:
Apologies, I will correct this.

No problem thank you for the correction.

now look at what I wrote.

What I said was :

that is not the whole of the rule though. and nowhere in that statement does it say "Only"


"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos"

is not the same as

Each detachment in your army may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos.

The part in quotes is the actual rule. the line [Each detachment in your army may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos.] is something others were asserting that the codex said, which it does not. it does not mention only in the codex at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 don_mondo wrote:
Nope, it doesn't. It says up to 4. So you can have 1, 2, 3 or 4. But 5 or more is more than, not up to, so is not allowed. Number of HQ slots does not matter, key is UP TO FOUR.

it says up to four as a single HQ slot.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:
Nope, it doesn't. It says up to 4. So you can have 1, 2, 3 or 4. But 5 or more is more than, not up to, so is not allowed. Number of HQ slots does not matter, key is UP TO FOUR.

it says up to four as a single HQ slot.

No, according to posts in this thread, it says four per detachment. That is not the same as four per HQ slot. Now if the quote stating up to four per detachment is incorrect, please post the correct rule so we can move on.

Ahhh, found it on the first page, Thanks Kel.

Chaos Daemons codex Page 94: "Each Primary(FAQ deletes this word) detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from the following models:"

Up to four per detachment. Not per HQ slot. Doesn't matter how many HQ slots you take, you are still limited to "up to four heralds" in a single detachment.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
Apologies, I will correct this.

No problem thank you for the correction.

now look at what I wrote.

What I said was :

that is not the whole of the rule though. and nowhere in that statement does it say "Only"


"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos"

is not the same as

Each detachment in your army may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos.

The part in quotes is the actual rule. the line [Each detachment in your army may only include up to four Heralds of Chaos.] is something others were asserting that the codex said, which it does not. it does not mention only in the codex at all.

Ahh I see what I did wrong, I was assuming your point was the second one, my mistake.

Just ignore me now

I have posted the rule stating up to four per detachment is incorrect.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/599624.page#6919682

 DeathReaper wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:
Nope, it doesn't. It says up to 4. So you can have 1, 2, 3 or 4. But 5 or more is more than, not up to, so is not allowed. Number of HQ slots does not matter, key is UP TO FOUR.

it says up to four as a single HQ slot.

No, using the FAQ it says:
"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from ... This selection uses a single HQ slot..."

So you may include up to 4. This selection (the selection of up to 4) uses a single HQ slot.

 DeathReaper wrote:
I have posted the rule stating up to four per detachment is incorrect.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/599624.page#6919682

Wow, you linked us back to this thread. Where you have not provided a rules quote that contradicts the one Kel posted that says "up to four per detachment". I ask again, provide a rules quote that contradicts the "up to four per detachment".

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:
Nope, it doesn't. It says up to 4. So you can have 1, 2, 3 or 4. But 5 or more is more than, not up to, so is not allowed. Number of HQ slots does not matter, key is UP TO FOUR.

it says up to four as a single HQ slot.

No, using the FAQ it says:
"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from ... This selection uses a single HQ slot..."

So you may include up to 4. This selection (the selection of up to 4) uses a single HQ slot.

You can not just read a part of the rule and call it done, you have to read everything.

 don_mondo wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
I have posted the rule stating up to four per detachment is incorrect.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/599624.page#6919682

Wow, you linked us back to this thread. Where you have not provided a rules quote that contradicts the one Kel posted that says "up to four per detachment". I ask again, provide a rules quote that contradicts the "up to four per detachment".

I did provide the rules quotes, I guess you missed it...

It says this: Chaos Daemons codex Page 94: "Each Primary(FAQ deletes this word) detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from the following models:"

Then it lists the Heralds, then it says this:

"This selection uses a single HQ slot from the Force Organization chart, but the Heralds are otherwise treated as separate units"

So the whole thing tells you that you may have 4 per HQ slot.

"This selection uses a single HQ slot from the Force Organization chart" is referring to the four heralds you picked. which you are allowed to have four of in a single HQ slot.

The whole thing is saying that each detachment may take 4 hearalds for a single HQ slot.

No, it tells you that you can have up to four and then tells you that they only take a single slot. Nowhere does it say you can take more than four by putting the additional heralds into a second HQ slot. All the HQ slot statement does is tell you how much of your force org they take up, it is NOT granting permission for a second set of four heralds. Like I said before, where is your permission to take more than four?

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:
Nope, it doesn't. It says up to 4. So you can have 1, 2, 3 or 4. But 5 or more is more than, not up to, so is not allowed. Number of HQ slots does not matter, key is UP TO FOUR.

it says up to four as a single HQ slot.

No, using the FAQ it says:
"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from ... This selection uses a single HQ slot..."

So you may include up to 4. This selection (the selection of up to 4) uses a single HQ slot.

You can not just read a part of the rule and call it done, you have to read everything.

What did I leave out? The names of the Heralds? The irrelevant rest of the sentence that says " ... from the force organization chart, but the Heralds are otherwise treated as separate units"?
You may include up to 4. This selection uses a single HQ slot.

Read all the rules. Cite what I left out or apologize please.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:
Nope, it doesn't. It says up to 4. So you can have 1, 2, 3 or 4. But 5 or more is more than, not up to, so is not allowed. Number of HQ slots does not matter, key is UP TO FOUR.

it says up to four as a single HQ slot.

No, using the FAQ it says:
"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from ... This selection uses a single HQ slot..."

So you may include up to 4. This selection (the selection of up to 4) uses a single HQ slot.

You can not just read a part of the rule and call it done, you have to read everything.

What did I leave out? The names of the Heralds? The irrelevant rest of the sentence that says " ... from the force organization chart, but the Heralds are otherwise treated as separate units"?
You may include up to 4. This selection uses a single HQ slot.

Read all the rules. Cite what I left out or apologize please.

Yes sorry, what I meant to say is that you interpreted it incorrectly.

The whole of the rules given within the Heralds box show us that each detachment may take 4 hearalds for a single HQ slot in each detachment.

You have two HQ slots so that equals 8 heralds per detachment.

It says you can have 4 heralds in a single detachment. Period. You can't even take a 5th one in the 2nd HQ slot. You can only take 4 because thats what the rule says.

 DeathReaper wrote:


The whole of the rules given within the Heralds box show us that each detachment may take 4 hearalds for a single HQ slot in each detachment.

You have two HQ slots so that equals 8 heralds per detachment.

First line yes.

Second line no. Nowhere does it give permission to exceed the "up to four per DETACHMENT". Detachment, not HQ sot. Two slots, 10 slots, it wouldn't matter. You are still limited to "up to four" in a single detachment. If you take a second HQ slot of Heralds, have you exceeded four? Yes. Therefor, can't do it.

But I almost admire the way you are sticking to your guns.... Almost.