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 Ashiraya wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:
5. A primarch with some bizzare form of interest in the opposite sex?

Wow.
Imagine the fanfics.

No. Just no.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:
5. A primarch with some bizzare form of interest in the opposite sex?

Wow.
Imagine the fanfics.

No. Just no.

Yes.

Yessssss
Imagine it. Picture it in your mind. 50 shades of Angron...

When literature student Neuralgia Bronze goes to interview young primarch Raoul Angron, she encounters a superhuman who is beautiful, brilliant, and intimidating. The unworldly, innocent Neu is startled to realize she wants this superhuman and, despite his enigmatic reserve, finds she is desperate to get close to him.

Your mind is now forever tainted.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
She shoots an astartes with a weapon incapable of harming him. And is then saved by Angron

That Astartes was an irresponsible fool who abandoned his post, which almost led to the ship being overrun. Lotara didn't shoot at him to kill him, but to provoke a confrontation in full view of his brother marines. Since they later beat the point into him, almost to the point of killing him in a succession of duels, it appears that she wasn't alone thinking he was out of line. Under the circumstances that marine is lucky that Angron didn't kill him on the spot.

Angron does like her - at least in as much as he likes anyone - because she shares a lot of his mindset. Someone, I forget who, reflects at one point when watching her in battle that she's just like the World Eaters. Curiously perhaps, Angron is one of the less chauvinistic of the primarchs - when he talks about his fallen comrades of Nuceria he always talks about his brothers and sisters.

I'd certainly not read anything sexual into it. Lotara is simply, for want of a better word, one of Angron's bros, and if there's one thing that's clear about Angron (pre-ascension at least) it's that he is loyal to the very few people he connects with, to the point that he wanted to die alongside his rebel army... his brothers and sisters.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
ADB has a fetish for Space Marines having creepy relationships with tiny women. Captain Lotara is to Angron as Cyrene is to Argel Tal as Annika Jarlsdottyr is to Hyperion as that pilot chick is to Sevetar.

Basically, you have this big bad Space Marine who's aloof as feth around Humans and doesn't take gak from any of them, except for this one woman who stands up to him all day long and he just kind of puts up with it.

It's an unsubtle attempt at defying tropes. "Hahahaha, women in fiction are generally depicted as being meek and fragile so I'm going to give the women in *my* stories huge balls and have them talk gak to these hyper-aggressive warrior-gods while their male counterparts all cower before them! Get it? Get it? Get it? It's like... the opposite of what you would expect from female characters in a novel!"

It is indeed very unsubtle, but its not defying any trope. I'm surprised that you came to this conclusion.

Space marines can't act aggressive in front of demure women. They have to be gentlemanly. The marines have a soft spot for women, just like, you know, most men currently.

And these tiny chicks totally dig tall guys. It's true today, and it will persist into the 41st millennium.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
at least ADB's marines have some romance.

unlike Dan Abnett, his marines are totally gay

More likely; fifty shades of rogal.

 da001 wrote:
Imagine it. Picture it in your mind. 50 shades of Angron...

When literature student Neuralgia Bronze goes to interview young primarch Raoul Angron, she encounters a superhuman who is beautiful, brilliant, and intimidating. The unworldly, innocent Neu is startled to realize she wants this superhuman and, despite his enigmatic reserve, finds she is desperate to get close to him.

Your mind is now forever tainted.

Oh no, that is okay. I cannot picture it seriously in any way, so that is fine. And certainly very boring.

Maximus Bitch wrote:

...It's an unsubtle attempt at defying tropes...

Defying tropes? The small girl who gives crap to big dude *is* a trope. Granted in most settings its usually a girl who is smaller than average but its a mild twist to have a full grown woman in a room full genetic engineered super humans.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 da001 wrote:
Imagine it. Picture it in your mind. 50 shades of Angron...

When literature student Neuralgia Bronze goes to interview young primarch Raoul Angron, she encounters a superhuman who is beautiful, brilliant, and intimidating. The unworldly, innocent Neu is startled to realize she wants this superhuman and, despite his enigmatic reserve, finds she is desperate to get close to him.

Your mind is now forever tainted.

Oh no, that is okay. I cannot picture it seriously in any way, so that is fine. And certainly very boring.

Really? Ok? I felt rather dirty while writing it. Crap, I am a failure at soul-corrupting. My Dark Lord will not be pleased....

JubbJubbz wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:

...It's an unsubtle attempt at defying tropes...

Defying tropes? The small girl who gives crap to big dude *is* a trope. Granted in most settings its usually a girl who is smaller than average but its a mild twist to have a full grown woman in a room full genetic engineered super humans.

It is one of the variations on this one: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HugeGuyTinyGirl

Specifically, this variant: 'often the girl is a Morality Pet who hangs out with the guy to show he isn't just a brute'. Cyrene, Octavia or Lotara are always there as moral reminders. Talos cares for Octavia, Angron listens to Lotara, Argel Tal goes to Cyrene in search of peace...

 da001 wrote:
Really? Ok? I felt rather dirty while writing it.

Yeah. Have you been on 1D4chan recently ?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Would you find it wierd if she was male?

My first thought upon reading the thread title.

 Melissia wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Would you find it wierd if she was male?

My first thought upon reading the thread title.

The thing is: I don't think he would have the same "respect" for her if she was male

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Would you find it wierd if she was male?

My first thought upon reading the thread title.

The thing is: I don't think he would have the same "respect" for her if she was male

Actually I'm pretty sure she would have died outright if she was male, mainly because Primarchs don't take kindly to anyone standing before them, let alone mortals. In universe he probably stopped from killing her due to the idea of women being weaker and just above a child (hence the "save the women and children" bit society always practices even in the modern day).

-iShrug-. Really, it's just pretty weird across the board, for both the character of the Primarch and looking like ADB is just trying too hard.

He would be dead if he was Male.

Thus the point.

 Melissia wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Would you find it wierd if she was male?

My first thought upon reading the thread title.

Of course they would. Then everyone would be wondering if Angron was gay.

For the real answer to the mystery behind Angron's relationship with Lotara you need only a cursory knowledge of ADB's work. He likes putting weaker, but still assertive and strong of will female characters in relationships (Platonically, allegedly) with big burly Marines. It's that gak that ADB likes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Maximus Bitch wrote:


It is indeed very unsubtle, but its not defying any trope. I'm surprised that you came to this conclusion.

Space marines can't act aggressive in front of demure women. They have to be gentlemanly. The marines have a soft spot for women, just like, you know, most men currently.

And these tiny chicks totally dig tall guys. It's true today, and it will persist into the 41st millennium.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
at least ADB's marines have some romance.

unlike Dan Abnett, his marines are totally gay

So being "gay" doesn't count as romance then?

It's not unfounded.
Men typically have around 200% the upper body strength of women, and 150% the lower body strength.
This in on average with untrained contestants.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think he meant how the marines have that whole brotherhood thing going on.
Jokingly of course.

What is the first part of your post in reference to?

 Void__Dragon wrote:
What is the first part of your post in reference to?

The "hide the women and children" stereotype brought up earlier.

Let's not have this stupid argument again. This thread was already tiptoeing around trolling to begin with.

Why is a "hide the women and children" stereotype even being brought up? Angron is a brutal butcher of worlds. In the same book he literally has a woman crying and pissing herself as he holds her and threatens to kill her. He proceeds to crush her skull.

Not that the "hide your women and children" gak had anything to do with women being weaker than men mind you.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Why is a "hide the women and children" stereotype even being brought up? Angron is a brutal butcher of worlds. In the same book he literally has a woman crying and pissing herself as he holds her and threatens to kill her. He proceeds to crush her skull.

Not that the "hide your women and children" gak had anything to do with women being weaker than men mind you.

I'm just speaking of the societal stereotype that persists to this day, no physical strength differences that typically have nothing to do with lethality in combat. Just that had she been a he, she'd be dead. Just feels like it functions for "ZOMGZ a woman stood up to angron!" rather than a person.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Why is a "hide the women and children" stereotype even being brought up? Angron is a brutal butcher of worlds. In the same book he literally has a woman crying and pissing herself as he holds her and threatens to kill her. He proceeds to crush her skull.

Not that the "hide your women and children" gak had anything to do with women being weaker than men mind you.

I'm just speaking of the societal stereotype that persists to this day, no physical strength differences that typically have nothing to do with lethality in combat. Just that had she been a he, she'd be dead. Just feels like it functions for "ZOMGZ a woman stood up to angron!" rather than a person.

Angron has hands the circumference of her waist, and an anatomy as alien as possie from a normal human.
The man could probably eat a live carnifex.
But she wouldn't dare get snippety with Angron or he'd squish her by stepping on her. She never stood up to Angron

 Wyzilla wrote:

I'm just speaking of the societal stereotype that persists to this day, no physical strength differences that typically have nothing to do with lethality in combat. Just that had she been a he, she'd be dead. Just feels like it functions for "ZOMGZ a woman stood up to angron!" rather than a person.

Is that true though?

Kharn gets just as uppity with Angron or even more. Argel Tal even outright attacked him after being provoked.

Kharn is way more ballsy, manly, and respectable than Lotara though.
Not to mention the fact we know Angron cares about him to some extent.
With Lotara? We're drawing blanks.
It's implied he likes her a lot. Kinda like a literal morality pet (as disgusting as that is keep in mind your dealing with spite, hatred, and might given form)
He treats the crew of his flagship with a lot more care than his astartes.
He asks a crew member if he was okay, and the dude is dumbfounded.

Oh right, that little Astropath girl.

Yeah that was pretty weird. He actually caresses her face and everything.

Answering the OP:

All of ADB's characters don't take any gruff, except from a single woman on-board the ship. Talos has Octavia, Argel Tal has Cyrene, and so-on. ADB does it because:

1) It gives the character an excuse to outright explain their thoughts and feelings. Having Talos say, "I aM anGREH cuz of HISTry" is easier than actually showing it.

2) It lets ADB feel like he's unique and that his idea of having a single woman onboard (Octavia, Cyrene, and all the rest have the same lack of a personality) makes him some sort of brilliant feminist.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

He treats the crew of his flagship with a lot more care than his astartes.

this makes some sense though as I've always been given the impression he resented his sons

Angron resents a lot of people, not always with good reason. He's always been an irrational angry dbag.

I really don't think her gender makes much of a difference to their relationship, honestly.

(Now that I think of it, I really don't think it makes that much difference to her character.)

BrianDavion wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

He treats the crew of his flagship with a lot more care than his astartes.

this makes some sense though as I've always been given the impression he resented his sons

Agreed - IIRC when they first entered his service they were smashed up by him and of course has the implants - something I don't think he inflicted on his human crew - he hates the Emperor for saving him and the Astartes are a good way of sating this hatred.

I personally think the reason he lets Kharn, Lotara, even Argel Tal live, is that he respects their courage and balls-iness. Again, in Betrayer it is noted he despises all titles like "Lord," and only tolerates one; "Sire." Probably because he is in a way their father.

Reason being? Humble beginnings. He saw himself as "One of them." Them being the slaves. Even though he led them, he was their equal, their brother. He's sick of his Legion venerating him and expecting him to accept his role as above them, tiptoeing around him..."Yes Lord, no Lord, 3 bags (of body parts) full Lord."

Kharn talks back and has a spine enough to disagree and tell him when he's wrong (within reason). Lotara stands up to his Astartes and shows spine enough to tell the Space Marine he is wrong. Argel Tal shows courage enough to stand up for himself and stand against Angron, unlike his own Legion, who are supposed to be the most ballsy Legion.