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2014/07/12 23:26:51
Subject: 2000 Jy2's AV13-spam Necrons vs Mortetvie's Eldar
mortetvie wrote: Regarding my turn 1 shooting, to be fair, each wraithknight got a single pen result and a wave serpent finished off the now AV 11 barges . Was lucky that my last serpent managed to glance the 3rd barge. The wall of av13 vehicles just kept coming!
Anyway, looking forward to that sister game-should be interesting against Tyranids lol...
A lot of people underestimate wraithguard IMO. T6, 3+ armor with a 2+ save char tanking for them on top of having a 2+ cover save and being invisible makes a hard nut to crack for s7 and ap- weaponry. The 4+ invul save also goes a long way against low AP weaponry and that is one reason I like the unit so much-aside from wraithguard being my favorite unit in the game .
I was actually surprised as to how much damage you did to the unit given the circumstances . Even though my serpents had a 2+ jink I think they would have been a better target. Shrouding and invisibility really make my army work and without those powers up, I am sure you would have murdered the wraithguard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/13 00:36:00
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
A lot of people underestimate wraithguard IMO. T6, 3+ armor with a 2+ save char tanking for them on top of having a 2+ cover save and being invisible makes a hard nut to crack for s7 and ap- weaponry. The 4+ invul save also goes a long way against low AP weaponry and that is one reason I like the unit so much-aside from wraithguard being my favorite unit in the game .
I was actually surprised as to how much damage you did to the unit given the circumstances . Even though my serpents had a 2+ jink I think they would have been a better target. Shrouding and invisibility really make my army work and without those powers up, I am sure you would have murdered the wraithguard.
I didn't go after your serpents because I believe that my flyers were out of range. Only my AB's probably could have shot at them. Instead, I was hoping to soften up your deathstar with some shooting before the assault with my bargelords. Between their AP2 attacks and Mindshackle Scarabs, I felt that I could do enough damage to cripple them with both shooting and assault. However, what I didn't realize at the time was that they had 4+ Invuln's. Otherwise, had I known, I wouldn't have gone for the assaults nor would I have focused my army into them. Oh well, I learned something new in that game.
Glad to be of service...teaching people lessons is always fun-Mwuahaha! Also, I used the #1 runes of battle power, renew, to heal a wound on baharoth. I love that power! One of the warlocks from a bike unit you later erase had it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/13 02:20:27
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
Not that many have realized the changes to vehicle movement yet and I am sure you guys were unaware of the changes but I would suggest reading this thread in reagards to deploying vehicles sideways to "cheat" extra movement.
The short of it is that vehicle movement is a mess now playing RAW, so I am sure most movement will be conducted grandfathering previous editions however it is pretty clear cut that the rotation of a model for gained movement is certainly illegal now.
Again, wouldn't have impacted this match a wink from how it reads but since it is the first good example of what was an often used tactic that is no longer legal, I figured I would share the link.
Back to the report, I have to say the eldar rolling appears pretty hot at the moment, and without that even luckier warlord trait for the necrons this should actually be in their favor. Appears as though the eldar really lack a fast tool with which to kill the necron warlord in time to prevent him from gaining huge amounts of VP's. Which is troubling since WK's should be a great answer.
mortetvie got some sick powers in this game. I'm sure it contributed a lot in this game to his near flawless victory.
Now that I think about JY2 not focusing WSs with his barges on turn 2...
Possibly because the wraithblades would be in charge range thanks to their hit'n'run? Well, they still were but that was Jim's mistake here.
"I'm rather intrigued to discover that my opponent, who looks like a perfectly civilised person, is in fact mathematically capable"
2014/07/13 15:35:52
Subject: 2000 Jy2's AV13-spam Necrons vs Mortetvie's Eldar
Overall, an interesting report. I've been playing with a Wraithstar of late and mainly trying to figure out what the best type of Wraith unit would be fitting. The Ghostaxe/4++ save unit is particularly durable with Invisibility. And with Eldar, it is very easy to get Invisibility. In Mortevie's list, he had 7 rolls (1 Farseer, 2 Spirit Seers) for Invis and the Necron army had no real way to stop the Eldar from successfully casting.
Baharroth actually fits pretty well as opposed to Baron Sathonyx. He is an Eternal Warrior to help tank wounds (on top of Invisibility), provides Hit and Run and can leave the unit (as was demonstrated) to land on objectives late game utilizing ongoing reserves and does not scatter. The Wraithguard do not really need the grenade bonus that Baron provides. When you factor in the Baron + 5 Kabalite Warriors run 150 points vs Baharroth is 205 (IIRC), it's not as bad a trade off as some may think.
I think it's been established in a lot of ways just how good the stock Wraithknight is and taking 2 is pretty beefy.
All in all, I really liked the Eldar list. I tend to roll the Farseer first to get Invisibility as he has the Ghosthelm to at least not take wounds from a Perils roll, but the Spirit Seers also provide additional opportunities for Invisibility.
Shooting at an Invisibile unit was a bit of a surprise and I think that turn is what really the game changer. Well, that and being able to deploy to avoid being shot up by Necrons in the first turn.
Thanks for sharing.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
2014/07/13 23:14:49
Subject: 2000 Jy2's AV13-spam Necrons vs Mortetvie's Eldar (Completed)
I think the things that made the eldar victory more likely than not to occur this game were the following:
1.) Going second
2.) Hammer & Anvil deployment
3.) Good psychic powers
4.) Good secondary objectives
5.) Better than average dice rolls
6.) Slightly below average rolling on opponent's part
Going second on Hammer & Anvil against an army that has 24" max range on thier weapons is huge-it also gave me enough room to ensure my Serpents were out of range of the flyers. Therefore, the available targets for Jim were probably not ideal for his army and the range issue gave me an opportunity to "power up" with psychic powers. So ultimately, I got all of the perks of going second along with the perks of going first because I was the one who was ultimately able to get the "alpha strike."
Had the deployment been different, I would have likely been taking 7x4 twin-linked S7 shots which would have done some damage and given Jim first blood (unless dice were favorable to me and I deployed so only some of his barges were in range).
Furthermore, with a Farseer/2x spiritseers, invisibility is not guaranteed though it is likely (is it 87%? Not sure). Invisibility and shrouding make my list pretty beefy against an army that can't ignore 2+ cover. The fact that I was able to get these power and successfully cast them was important.
Finally, having the right tools is essential for any army and I think my army had the necessary units to deal with Jim's army. Specifically, double WK and a unit of wraithblades w/ hit & run allow me to have something to deal with his barge lords and other vehicles while my serpents can deal with his air.
So had the deployment been different, my powers not as good, and Jim not getting too close too-fast and charging my wraithblades-the game would/could have been a very different one! Jim has great target priority when he plays and he has a great focus so this game was a good challenge for both of us.
Thanks once again for the game, Jim!
Now regarding my army in general, I like it and I think it played well, I just need to fine tune it a bit more. This is actually a list I hope to bring to the BAO (with some changes to reduce points of course).
For BAO, I plan on taking the following:
Farseer on bike; 2x spiritseers; 8xwraithblades w/ wave serpent; 2x 5 dire avengers w/ wave serpent; 2x3 bikes; 2x wraithknights; Baron; 5x dark eldar warriors w/venom.
It has a lot of scoring and what I hope will end up being hitting/staying power .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/13 23:19:44
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
Thank you for your analysis. I will use it for my post-game.
POST-GAME THOUGHTS:
Spoiler:
Necrons: (by Jy2)
Wow...so how did I lose so badly with an army build that should have won in this battle?
1. Going 1st. I really needed to go 2nd instead. My army was built to withstand opposing alpha-strikes. It would have been more advantageous for me to go 2nd in this game.
2. Hammer & Anvil deployment. The deployment gave my opponent some breathing room. It also messed up my alpha-strike by allowing him to avoid it completely.
3. Psychic powers. While Invisibility was good, I think the key power was actually Shrouding. Otherwise, I probably should have killed off all of his wave serpents. Wave serpents with 2+ cover on the other hand, no.
4. The dice. Adam rolled above average, especially on the vehicle damage charts. I rolled below, especially with my jink saves against WK shooting (I believed I only made 1 or 2 4+ cover saves the entire game). This led to him quickly killing all of my annihilation barges as well as to 1-shot my Warlord.
5. Assaulting/shooting the wraithstar on Turn 2. This was actually more due to my unfamiliarity with the wraithblades than any actual tactical mistake on my part. I thought that I would have been able to cripple them with a combination of shooting and assault, thinking that they would have no saves in close combat. However, what I didn't know was that they had 4++ invuln's as well. Had I known that, my strategy in this case would have been much, much different. I would most likely have just ignored them, which was supposed to be my initial strategy.
6. I didn't factor in Hit-&-Run. Now this was an actual tactical mistake on my part. I should have kept my barges back in case if his wraithstar successfully hit-&-ran out of combat. Call it a brainfart on my part.
Overall, besides my mistakes, my opponent also played really well. He denied me my alpha strike. He kept his units protected by Shrouding and he baited me with his wraithstar. He never lost sight of the mission objectives, and he played with more focus than me in this game. It was a very well deserved victory by Eldar in this matchup, and I look forwards to perhaps playing him again at the BAO.
Eldar: (by Mortetvie)
I think the things that made the eldar victory more likely than not to occur this game were the following:
1.) Going second
2.) Hammer & Anvil deployment
3.) Good psychic powers
4.) Good secondary objectives
5.) Better than average dice rolls
6.) Slightly below average rolling on opponent's part
Going second on Hammer & Anvil against an army that has 24" max range on thier weapons is huge-it also gave me enough room to ensure my Serpents were out of range of the flyers. Therefore, the available targets for Jim were probably not ideal for his army and the range issue gave me an opportunity to "power up" with psychic powers. So ultimately, I got all of the perks of going second along with the perks of going first because I was the one who was ultimately able to get the "alpha strike."
Had the deployment been different, I would have likely been taking 7x4 twin-linked S7 shots which would have done some damage and given Jim first blood (unless dice were favorable to me and I deployed so only some of his barges were in range).
Furthermore, with a Farseer/2x spiritseers, invisibility is not guaranteed though it is likely (is it 87%? Not sure). Invisibility and shrouding make my list pretty beefy against an army that can't ignore 2+ cover. The fact that I was able to get these power and successfully cast them was important.
Finally, having the right tools is essential for any army and I think my army had the necessary units to deal with Jim's army. Specifically, double WK and a unit of wraithblades w/ hit & run allow me to have something to deal with his barge lords and other vehicles while my serpents can deal with his air.
So had the deployment been different, my powers not as good, and Jim not getting too close too-fast and charging my wraithblades-the game would/could have been a very different one! Jim has great target priority when he plays and he has a great focus so this game was a good challenge for both of us.
Thanks once again for the game, Jim!
Now regarding my army in general, I like it and I think it played well, I just need to fine tune it a bit more. This is actually a list I hope to bring to the BAO (with some changes to reduce points of course).
For BAO, I plan on taking the following:
Farseer on bike; 2x spiritseers; 8xwraithblades w/ wave serpent; 2x 5 dire avengers w/ wave serpent; 2x3 bikes; 2x wraithknights; Baron; 5x dark eldar warriors w/venom.
It has a lot of scoring and what I hope will end up being hitting/staying power .
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/13 23:57:03
Great report. I was honestly surprised at how durable that wraithstar was. It sounds like that was partially due to bad/good rolls. Mortetvie handled his target priority very well with his shooting.
6000+
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2014/07/14 20:06:29
Subject: 2000 Jy2's AV13-spam Necrons vs Mortetvie's Eldar (Completed)
Wraithguard tended to look bad on paper to a lot of people and I always loved using them...I used them to great effect since 3rd edition .
The key for using them well traditionally was fortune and some tanky chars/hit & run but now that configuration is far from reliable and now that 2++ rerollable is nerfed at BAO, it needs something else to make it work. I like majority T6 as it makes a big difference against anything s7 and below while having invisibility up/shrouding gives them a 2+/4++ (usually) which helps them get to where they need to go relatively intact.
This unit is my trouble shooting unit that I throw at things that would give the rest of my army a hard time and the fact that they are hard to kill and objective secured means they make a great unit to deny KP and that they can always reliably secure/contest objectives not to mention being a great unit for holdig the relic. All around a solid utility unit .
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
. Was lucky that my last serpent managed to glance the 3rd barge. The wall of av13 vehicles just kept coming!
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
. Even though my serpents had a 2+ jink I think they would have been a better target. Shrouding and invisibility really make my army work and without those powers up, I am sure you would have murdered the wraithguard.
6000+
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