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The reason the trukk is so viable for MANz compared to Termies is what idiot marine player is going to deepstrike a minimalist Termie unit? They ALL are either nasty melee or only fire a handful of shots, usually not that strong of guns either (outside the oddball with autocannons).
Not a single termie can deepstrike like Tau do for gunning down rear armor or pasting T4 models reliably, their guns arent good enough. Not a single termie unit can be an assault unit without getting beyond 400pts easy because they need either the bodies to survive the initial drop or a landraider to get across the table.

If i have any speed whatsoever, and i usually have a 15man Warbiker squad now-a-days, i bring 1-2 3man MANz missiles with 1 killsaw, bp, trukk with ram for 170pts each. They always kill something or draw a TON of fire.
Yeah, they die to S8. Big deal, even as a single wound they cause more damage for the points i spent than termies would same cost.
You dont match a strong opponent with an even match. MANz are bullies, send them at things that are unlikely to fight back. If you send them at termies you are dumber than a grot.

First off don't compare Manz to tactical termies because people will take TH/SS termies instead.

TH/SS termies with a 3++ invo are the hard counter for Manz and will PWN them in any encounter.

Ork boys will take out TH/SS termies. It's easier to take them out with 6 regular wounds than 3 ap2 wounds. 36 points worth of boys will drop 45 points of TH/SS termies at I2.

It's rock paper scissors

TH/SS termies lolstomp Manz in CC
Manz lolstomp tac marines in CC
Tac marines mow down boys with bolt guns.
Slugga boys beat Manz and tac marines when the orks get off the charge.

If the orks outplay the marines the TH/SS termies get swarmed and dragged down by slugga boys while Manz rampage unchecked throughout the marine army. If the marines outplay the orks then TH/SS pop the manz like a bunch of over ripe zits while tac marines slaughter ork boys with bolter fire.

Manz are effectively immune to attacks that are under S8 and not ap2. Small arms and moderate str attacks like HYMP are wasted on Manz which leaves them free to stomp whatever they want. AP2 attacks under S8 are also weak against Manz allowing them to shrug off plasma shots and S6 attacks from MC.

They are also good against Tau that bring heavy burst cannons instead of ion accelerators.

The same goes for Eldar unless they bring wraithknights.

Manz are a fantastic unit, but they are not a I win button and require you to out play your opponent. Most units in the game are either hard countered or hard counter Manz.

 schadenfreude wrote:
First off don't compare Manz to tactical termies because people will take TH/SS termies instead.

TH/SS termies with a 3++ invo are the hard counter for Manz and will PWN them in any encounter.

Ork boys will take out TH/SS termies. It's easier to take them out with 6 regular wounds than 3 ap2 wounds. 36 points worth of boys will drop 45 points of TH/SS termies at I2.

It's rock paper scissors

TH/SS termies lolstomp Manz in CC
Manz lolstomp tac marines in CC
Tac marines mow down boys with bolt guns.
Slugga boys beat Manz and tac marines when the orks get off the charge.

If the orks outplay the marines the TH/SS termies get swarmed and dragged down by slugga boys while Manz rampage unchecked throughout the marine army. If the marines outplay the orks then TH/SS pop the manz like a bunch of over ripe zits while tac marines slaughter ork boys with bolter fire.

Manz are effectively immune to attacks that are under S8 and not ap2. Small arms and moderate str attacks like HYMP are wasted on Manz which leaves them free to stomp whatever they want. AP2 attacks under S8 are also weak against Manz allowing them to shrug off plasma shots and S6 attacks from MC.

They are also good against Tau that bring heavy burst cannons instead of ion accelerators.

The same goes for Eldar unless they bring wraithknights.

Manz are a fantastic unit, but they are not a I win button and require you to out play your opponent. Most units in the game are either hard countered or hard counter Manz.

This is very true, but from what I'm seeing I don't think mass MANz is a good idea. They are too rock, and if an opp brings paper I'm all wrapped up

I'll run some more MANz missile games, but I'm probably not going to run the bully Boyz formation again.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
So Vanilla SM termies are 40 points? Then why are Death wing 45 points per model? It makes no sense!

Fearless.

Also being able to mix your squads between tactical and assault termies.

..and if you havnet shot the slow Terminators with your gunz and not blocked them off with Gretchen then shame on you for being silly. maybe kill those one wound terminators as you approach. Or maybe just like... lock them up and hit the ignore button while your own Gretchen and extra wound assure that the same cannot be done to you as easily

 Billagio wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
So Vanilla SM termies are 40 points? Then why are Death wing 45 points per model? It makes no sense!

Fearless.

Also being able to mix your squads between tactical and assault termies.

Deathwing assault is a bigger deal than fearless. There is also inner circle, but that matters less than fearless. Lobbas are good against deathwing. They will probably shoot after deep striking because of deathwing assault bonus and terminator players tend to underestimate lobbas when they deepstrike.

They were usable within the old dex. They're MUCH better now with new mob rule, ability to take bosspole and killsaws. MANz missile has gotten way better...but wait! Now you can make them fearless and +1ws and gain fear. What's not to like? If you've got 3 wagonz that's an obvious way to go. 5 manz are a bit much for a single truck if you ask me, but they're golden in wagonz. Especially with boyz taking a hit in that very role. Also, don't forget you can put a mekboy in there.

 Unholyllama wrote:
Grabbing the MANz formation in the Ghazghkull Supplement is going to be really good for the number of MANz you have.

Run 3-man units in Trukks with rams and planks and you'll have some fun times. In a different detachment, slot in a couple painboyz to attach to the squads (since they are battle brothers since ork detachments are the same faction) and now you have a 2W 2+ save model with 5+ FNP.

Just make sure you have at least 1 model with the bosspole though - the new Mob Rule table helps small units a lot and being able to get the right result is going to be the most important aspect.

The supplement MANZ formation are fearless so no need for a boss pole and they must in squads of at least 5 strong. They also have fear and +1 WS.

I personally plan on using the bully boyz formation, Fearless and WS 5 are both huge. WS 5 means mutually assured destruction against terminators, and fearless means I can keep using the unit to the last MANZ, which is good because they don't have an invulnerable...

So if you want to toss around 20ish MANZ, read up on the bully boyz formation, I'm probably going two trukks and a battlewagon to schlep them around.

Did someone say deffwing?

Blitz Brigade - 575 points
5x Battlewagon with Ram

Ghazghkull's Bully Boyz - 600
3x 5 MANz

Council of Waaagh! - 821
Ghazghkull Thrakka
Mad Doc Grotznik
2x MA Warboss
1x MA Big Mek with Mega Force Field
3x Nobz with 'Eavy armor and Waagh! Banner

Total 1996, with one battlewagon just for picking up whoever lost theirs. That's true Bad Moon decadence

Jidmah, that looks like a MASSIVELY fun army to play, or to play against! Nice thoughts.

Is the scout with that army really needed? Could take then as DTs instead and use the extra points.

yeah I second the outflanking BW with MA in them...

Meganobz have access to a cheap assault vehicle. The thing people look for in terminators/tough units is killing power, and people aren't taking termies for the 1 heavy weapon out of 5 guys, they are taking themf or the powerfist/chainfist/thunderhammers/power weapon.

In a Space Marine/Chaos Space marine army these guys can only get into assault by walking, being teleported at some random point in the game and sitting on their butts for a turn before walking then assaulting towards something if they end up in range. Or being put in a land raider. In a space marine army after you put these guys in a land raider you are basically looking at a minimum of 450 point investment to get your hard killy assault unit somewhere.

In a ork army, you can put them in a trukk, or BW (one is 1/4th the cost of a landraider the other is about 40% the cost) with a boarding plank (+2" charge range).

Usually you don't need 5 models with power fist/klaws to charge something, 3 is enough. and you can put 3 downfield in a trukk pretty quick. Even in a BW you can shuffle 3 MA nobs, a MA bigmek with KFF and a painboy downfield pretty quick and assault for a lot less to shuffle space marines downfield and assault.


Also kombi skorchas.

they are hot.

Much better than a combi flamer (3 Mega armor nobs with kombi skorchas is like having a unit with 3 heavy flamers for 1 turn or 1 heavy flamer for 3 turns )

I was being silly, but yeah, you could just get dedicated transport for those four units and spend the last 119 points on more toys (Tellporta Blasta, Killsaws, Kombi-Skorchas). Council of Waagh! has a nob unit in it, so it can take one as well.

 Jidmah wrote:
I was being silly, but yeah, you could just get dedicated transport for those four units and spend the last 119 points on more toys (Tellporta Blasta, Killsaws, Kombi-Skorchas). Council of Waagh! has a nob unit in it, so it can take one as well.

being silly?! i dunno, that list looked crazy fun! soo much killy powa in so few ork models! and starting so close to the enemy! gah it would be brutal fun some serious krumpin' power. I am really thinking I might have to try the council formation sometime.