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I have about 25 MANz that I have been collecting because I KNEW They would get a price decrease with the new book. Boy was I wrong, so now I need advice on how to play them.
Here is something I wrote in another thread.
Spoiler:
Space Marine Terminators w/ Powerfists cost the same points as MANz with the following differences:
* +2 BS *-1 W
*+1 I
*-1 A
*+2 Ld *5++
*deepstrike
*and they shall know no fear
*Chaper tactics
In a bubble Terminators can instant kill Meganobz, with no saves of any kind available for MANz. On the flipside, Meganobz MIGHT have a chance of killing terminators because they have one more attack, and if the terminator fail their 5++.
Real world cost, Meganobz aren't going anywhere without a transport, whereas terminators can just deepstrike. This isn't even a fair comparison since there is going to be extra points spent by the ork player to deliver MANz.
So the winner here is clearly Terminators, if by no other reason, their true cost is much less.
Chaos Terminators w/ Powerfists. Almost exactly the same stats, and outcome as above with two major differences:
1) Chaos Terminators are cheaper than MegaNobz (38.4 points per vs 40).
2) Chaos Terminators can take anti MegaNob gear
*Mark of Tzeentch (4++)
*Combi-Melta
I played a mass MegaNob list, where my opponent deepstrike’d in his Chaos Terminators that melta fired one unit of MegaNobz to death, and CC'd another unit to death. And the point cost for this unit was cheaper than just 1 of those MegaNobz units w/ BW.
This would be all fine if we were talking about the old book, but we’re talking about a new book that just came out, AFTER both the Space Marines book, and the Chaos Space Marines book.
Not trying to complain about the poor design, just trying to figure out what to do with these things. I only give the information above because I can't run MANz like terminators, they just aren't as good or versatile. And besides putting 3 in a trukk and sending the MANz missile up the board, I really don't know what to do here.
3x5 MANz units and they gain fearless, fear and +1WS. Then take an extra detatchment of that same formation. Stick them all in trukks and support them with some other nasty units. Warboss on bike perhaps.
Wish i had 25 MANz! id be running so many small MANz units. There so threatening and deadly if left to their own devices
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
MANz are used differently than termies. Best way to utilize MANz is the typical 3man missile via a Trukk. 170pts gives you 3 MANz in a trukk with ram and one toting a killsaw + bp.
Long as the rest of your army has some speed (bikes, wagons, etc) and you at LEAST get them to flat out, they will obliterate something.
Have to admit im surprised they didnt get anything other than access to a bosspole. The killsaw is situational at best, i more include it because 10pts bought on a model by model basis and it guarantees that landraider is dead unless your dice REALLY hate you instead of surviving with 1Hp.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
That +1 wounds they have over terminators changes EVERYTHING. its much better then 5++
Its literally double durability against anything except in the condition that you are out of cover and the armor was broken.
Add the additional attack to cover you up in CC (and do some heavy damage there, unlike termis who suffer from too little attacks)
And even when the armor is no longer relevant x2 wounds is stronger then a 5++ in preventing death against anything not causing ID.
Honestly I rank MANz above termies. at least they know what they want to do (get into melee and punch face) and are rather good at it. a direct fight between them goes in favor of the termies, but against most other targets, the MANz will do better than termies.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
out of it. I see it as this.. would you rather have the 5++ or 2 wounds.. 5++ helps against single big hits (las cannons and power fists) 2 wounds is better against any other shooting and all close combat..except vs power fists like I mentioned.
The other issue in the debate is delivery systems.. termmies Deep strike..but can get stuck in. Nobz win out in this case I think because where they can do some damage with a round of shooting..the nobz can zoom up the board and tumble out, shoot and assault.
Grabbing the MANz formation in the Ghazghkull Supplement is going to be really good for the number of MANz you have.
Run 3-man units in Trukks with rams and planks and you'll have some fun times. In a different detachment, slot in a couple painboyz to attach to the squads (since they are battle brothers since ork detachments are the same faction) and now you have a 2W 2+ save model with 5+ FNP.
Just make sure you have at least 1 model with the bosspole though - the new Mob Rule table helps small units a lot and being able to get the right result is going to be the most important aspect.
Unholyllama wrote: Grabbing the MANz formation in the Ghazghkull Supplement is going to be really good for the number of MANz you have.
Run 3-man units in Trukks with rams and planks and you'll have some fun times. In a different detachment, slot in a couple painboyz to attach to the squads (since they are battle brothers since ork detachments are the same faction) and now you have a 2W 2+ save model with 5+ FNP.
Just make sure you have at least 1 model with the bosspole though - the new Mob Rule table helps small units a lot and being able to get the right result is going to be the most important aspect.
They have fear and fearless. So no need for BP's? as per the formation.
As to the idea of the opponent blowing up all your trukks... You'd aim for combat turn 2, so hes at most gona get 2 rounds of shooting based on them going first. hmm, the idea that they can blow up all your trukks in these two turns is a little much. If the only thing you were running was 3x5 MANz in trukks while the rest of your list is backfield cannons then yeh I can see you losing all your trukks. But at the same time you'll have gotten 2 turns of cannon fire.
If the enemy is shooting your MANz missiles then usually thats what you want them to do. As typically the MANz get shot and your trukk boys make combat, allowing the MANz to plod it in.
MANz for me have never failed to do what they need to; either distract 'em humies while da' boyz get krumpin'! - or get krumpin' while da' boyz get shot!
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
An ork rule if thumb: You don't send your tough things against their tough things, and you don't use your hordes against their hordes. A Warboss against a Chapter Master will be freaking destroyed. Meganobz against Terminators will lose. Ork Boys against Guardsmen or Devilgants will be shot to pieces.
Then again... Ork Boys against a Chapter Master will vaporise him. Meganobz against Tacticals and troops leave no man standing (With three attacks per model, 4 on the charge, and Killsaws getting up to 5, don't be afraid to sic them on basic troops. You're practically indestructible except against very light firepower with 2 wounds and a 2+ save). A Warboss with retinue against Terminators will kick their butts down the street and back.
I've got six old metals and 6 new plastics in the mail on the way. The old will be 3 nob MANz missiles x2.
The 6 new plastics will all have Killsaws and be paired up with Grotsnik in a BW. Fearless and Rampage. 5+ D3 attacks on the charge as long as I can multi-charge.
Also, I'll get 2 KFF pieces on the new sprues, one for my KFF Mek on bike and the other IDK yet.
I forgot about Grotsnik. He lost his ability to give out cyborks but its useless now anyway. However hes no longer crazy mad and kitable which is awesome as hell.
Btw if you do a multi-charge you dont get rampage benefits. Last sentence in the Rampage rule states that.
Slightly off topic but anyone else find it funny Grotsnik still has his cybork body wargear, even though its not an invul now? lol.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
Run the bully boyz formation. 3x 5 units with FEARLESS and theu cause fear, um yes please. You can put them all in trukks if you want but you better have other fast threating options or get first turn, id say run 2 units in basic BWs throw in a painboy or mega armored warboss with lukky stikks and the 3rd unit in a trukk. That would be about 875 points without the Hqs so still a 1000 points almost to work wiith if you play 1850.
Vineheart01 wrote: I forgot about Grotsnik. He lost his ability to give out cyborks but its useless now anyway. However hes no longer crazy mad and kitable which is awesome as hell.
Btw if you do a multi-charge you dont get rampage benefits. Last sentence in the Rampage rule states that.
Slightly off topic but anyone else find it funny Grotsnik still has his cybork body wargear, even though its not an invul now? lol.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuu
Why does GW hate assault so much? Well, at least it counts for ongoing combats. Assuming anything survives.
So from this thread the only use for MANz is a small squad suicideual unit in a trukk???
cmon this cannot be! these are ard gitz with da tougest armor da blasted meks could slap on 'em and klaws dat could crush all the bones in an oomies body!
No idea why GW hates assault so much. Melee combat is always more interesting than shooting. In any game not just 40k.
If they had the current rules for melee combat, but gave the melee-orientated races rules to ignore said brb rules (orks, nids, space wolves to an extent, daemons) so they could actually assault and on average win assaults with armies that abhor melee combat (tau....) rather than get stale-mates. My tau have actually WON assaults with units that are meant to assault not shoot. How the hell is that possible? It shouldnt be, i should auto die if im caught by anything actually meant to punch things.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
Vineheart01 wrote: No idea why GW hates assault so much. Melee combat is always more interesting than shooting. In any game not just 40k.
If they had the current rules for melee combat, but gave the melee-orientated races rules to ignore said brb rules (orks, nids, space wolves to an extent, daemons) so they could actually assault and on average win assaults with armies that abhor melee combat (tau....) rather than get stale-mates. My tau have actually WON assaults with units that are meant to assault not shoot. How the hell is that possible? It shouldnt be, i should auto die if im caught by anything actually meant to punch things.
I keep on hearing this and yet looking at tournament lists online, I see assault-based lists (albeit a lot of deathstars) winning through assault more than shooting lists. I don't see assault as being as brutal as people think it is.
That said - orks got a good boost in my opinion for assaulting given Boarding Planks, 'Ere We Go, and Waagh (for non-MANz squads). That combination has me averaging 9-10" per charge consistently with my most recent Ork games. Getting the charge is huge for Orks and it's really possible now.
So overall, I would say that melee is not bad currently and Orks thus far, seem to be better than Nids to get into combat and tear things up.
obsidiankatana wrote: When terminators can be taken in groups of three and take ~40pt assault vehicle transports, call me.
Honestly everyone keeps saying this, but I don't see the point. Termies don't need an fragile assault vehicle because they can be anywhere on the board (ala deepstrike). Where as MANz have to spend extra points for this duty. Yes MANz can be purchased in lower numbers but those numbers don't really matter if A) your vehicle gets blown up B) your fighting an army of termies c) your fighting an army with a lot of low AP, ID weapons.
I just haven't had good luck with MANz because none of my opp's so far have brought enough squishy units for me to Krunch, and with unbound lists becoming more common, I expect this to get worse as time goes on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/09 22:19:43
mrfantastical wrote: Honestly everyone keeps saying this, but I don't see the point. Termies don't need an fragile assault vehicle because they can be anywhere on the board (ala deepstrike). Where as MANz have to spend extra points for this duty. Yes MANz can be purchased in lower numbers but those numbers don't really matter if A) your vehicle gets blown up B) your fighting an army of termies c) your fighting an army with a lot of low AP, ID weapons.
I just haven't had good luck with MANz because none of my opp's so far have brought enough squishy units for me to Krunch, and with unbound lists becoming more common, I expect this to get worse as time goes on.
They say this for a few reasons.
First off, you won't see tactical terminators. You just won't. Stormbolters don't scare anyone outside of GK ones (which are ok) and their one-of special weapons are mediocre at best for the 200pt minimum price tag. DSing them means they can't charge, so power fists are out. If they run, they can't shoot. And this assumes they didn't scatter into a bad situation, and that they actually came in on the turn you needed/wanted.
Secondly, assault terminators. Again, no assault out of a DS. So you need an assault vehicle - only one SM can take is the Land Raider. Let's assume they're all claws (they're not, that's silly), so you're at 450pts minimum. I wish I had trukks.
Thirdly, 3 MANz are more small-arms resilient than 5 Terminators (6 wounds vs 5). So by a per-model basis, MANz do terminator 2+ better than terminators courtesy of that second wound. Even versus the low APID weapons, that list is shockingly short for MANz. Meltaguns, Lascannons, Lances, and Demolisher Cannons spring to mind. All save one are dedicated AT weapons, so your Battlewagons are suddenly safe. Or they shot at the Battlewagons, so your MANz are safe. Terminators can't compete here either - you have no motivation to shoot Str 8+ at them, they're already 1W. So those AT guns are pointed squarely at tanks.
They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines, and they shall know no fear.
Most people here are missing the very important point that many of the heavy weapons that are going to be fired at MANz are S8+ (melta is now the go-to weapon over plasma), so the extra wound doesn't help them in most cases, and makes them much more fragile than terminators.
However, I think MANz are only very good when taken with the Ghaz supplement (which unfortunately requires dumb DLC).
I will probably be throwing one killsaw per unit because Knights are unfortunately so common and a bull boy MAN with a killsaw should be able to knock off half a Knight's hullpoints on the charge.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/09 23:05:24
Argel Tal and Cyrene: Still a better love story than Twilight
Has anyone taken a sledge hammer and used it to drive 10 Meganobz through your skull before?
Because that works. Beleive it.
The new codex allows me now to play the army i played for 9 games (went 8-0, lost at top table to a Necron/ork player) and had a BALL with those monsters only now my army is bigger AND MEANER. There was NOTHINg and NO ARMY it couldn't wreck. Even in the game I lost it was to a fluke 11 on the LD check. What can ya do? Still a dice game. roll a 10 and that guy was going to be smoked too.
You have just got to drive them through someones skull and stop worrying about how they "compare". Comparisons fail when your Terminator has 2 wounds man. THATS BIG.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/09 23:30:54
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Whaaa ... you footslog meganobs? Howcan that possibly be good when the whole net says it cannot work, lol. They are SnP after all. They have no inv. What can you be thinking. Oh I know. They win games ... that's it.
So Vanilla SM termies are 40 points? Then why are Death wing 45 points per model? It makes no sense!
But yeah. Meganobz having that extra wound makes them twice as durable to small arms fire. When to come pare a unit of 5 meganobz vs 5 termies, and they are fried upon by a Tactical Squad you can count that the Mega nobz will have more survivors
MANZ still retain their weaknesses/strengths as per usual. You can't foot slog them, so you need to slap them in a vehicle, Trukks preferably to get places fast. But they are still terrors in CC. Not many things can stand up to even a 3 MANZ squad and live to tell the tale.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
7000 
