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 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

On the reverse side of that "good cop" action, I was in the car as a teenager with my dad driving down one of the main roads in my home town (it's a road with two lanes for each direction of travel, with the yellow line turn lane in the middle....not small), it was fairly foggy out, but there was literally NO ONE on the road... my dad gets pulled over for "speeding" in the fog. Catch is, he was doing exactly the speed limit. If there had been any other vehicles going in our same direction, he woulda slowed down, but the female officer had a real problem with the fact that the driver had different plumbing from her, and so was "oppressing" her, so she was gonna get even and wrote a ticket (that was eventually thrown out)

Except that is exactly the situation you deserve a ticket.

If environmental conditions make driving the speed limit hazardous then you must slow down to a safe speed.

Its actually a question on the CA driving test. "When is it illegal to drive the speed limit?: A: when conditions make that speed unsafe."

Except that in this case, it was still perfectly safe to be doing the exact posted speed limit.

No, no its not.

Just because there aren't other vehicles(that you can see) doesn't mean its ok to go the speed limit.

You might come up on a turn too suddenly for you to react and crash, you could hit pedestrians/bikers, what if someone else is driving without their lights on?, etc...

 Grey Templar wrote:
No, no its not.

Just because there aren't other vehicles(that you can see) doesn't mean its ok to go the speed limit.

You might come up on a turn too suddenly for you to react and crash, you could hit pedestrians/bikers, what if someone else is driving without their lights on?, etc...

Bingo!
Most states highway codes have a provision that in adverse weather you must drive to match road conditions. This includes visibility. By driving at the speed limit when it is "fairly foggy out" you are at risk of striking pedestrians/cyclists who may not be wearing high visibility clothing, or other vehicles who do not have their lights on. You mitigate against this by driving below the speed limit to give yourself time to react to changing circumstances.

Going the max speed limit during foggy conditions?

I lol'd.

Then facepalmed.

I mean, I can't imagine these guys were ALL going max speed , but they still had a bit of a hassle in the fog.

The problem with driving, people who think they're better drivers than everyone else but are just as bad as everyone else, and also thinking "that wont happen to me!".

> People who think they can drive while on the phone perfectly safely
> Eating while driving
> Taking selfies while driving
> Driving under the influence of various drugs (prescription, alcohol, marijuana)
> Just plain thinking they're much better than everyone else
> Driving like normal when weather conditions are vastly different
> People who speed and think it's fine (Or my favourite "no-one else was around so it was safe!"
> Just plain reckless driving like tailgating
> Running stop signs and red lights, because gosh darnit I'm more important and need to get there faster! feth you.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
No, no its not.

Just because there aren't other vehicles(that you can see) doesn't mean its ok to go the speed limit.

You might come up on a turn too suddenly for you to react and crash, you could hit pedestrians/bikers, what if someone else is driving without their lights on?, etc...

Bingo!
Most states highway codes have a provision that in adverse weather you must drive to match road conditions. This includes visibility. By driving at the speed limit when it is "fairly foggy out" you are at risk of striking pedestrians/cyclists who may not be wearing high visibility clothing, or other vehicles who do not have their lights on. You mitigate against this by driving below the speed limit to give yourself time to react to changing circumstances.

yes, but, in the case of fog they don't often come into play unless visibility is less than 1/4 mile (at ground level). As in the situation with my dad driving, you could clearly see the road, sidewalk on both sides of the road (and again, it was a large road), and you could see the traffic light (if not the actual post and containers) from at least a quarter mile away... So this idea that if we hadn't seen a car without lights, or some pedestrian or this random cop with a grudge to settle then something bad could happen is ludicrous.

And as I said... the ticket was thrown out. The judge clearly remembered the day, time and weather, was probably driving in it at the same time and judged that my dad was in the right for following the posted speed limit (he wasn't speeding... the section of road we were on was 35, and he was doing somewhere between 33-35 depending on how accurate the speedo was in that car). The judge also ordered an official reprimand on that particular officer as she was not properly following her duties.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrDwhitey wrote:

> Driving like normal when weather conditions are vastly different

> Running stop signs and red lights, because gosh darnit I'm more important and need to get there faster! feth you.

on that first point... there are also dangerous drivers who are quite the opposite. For instance, I can't recall how many times I've seen vehicles with California, Texas and other "Southern" plates driving in northerly areas, like Colorado, Oregon, Washington, etc. and the first drop of rain hits their windshield and theyre slamming on their brakes because they quite literally cannot handle anything less than 70 degrees, sunny with no wind.



I do agree with the second point I left up there.... I'll throw onto this one: the guy who insists on running that yellow, when traffic is still backed up into the intersection, thus blocking the perpendicular traffic from moving when their light turns green. Or the guy who runs the yellows regardless.

This is not as if I'm perfect, I have occasionally ran a red light left turn when stuck behind a semi-truck and couldn't see the light, but it's not something I'm actively trying to do as some I've seen out there.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
The problem with driving, people who think they're better drivers than everyone else but are just as bad as everyone else, and also thinking "that wont happen to me!".

> People who think they can drive while on the phone perfectly safely
> Eating while driving
> Taking selfies while driving
> Driving under the influence of various drugs (prescription, alcohol, marijuana)
> Just plain thinking they're much better than everyone else
> Driving like normal when weather conditions are vastly different
> People who speed and think it's fine (Or my favourite "no-one else was around so it was safe!"
> Just plain reckless driving like tailgating
> Running stop signs and red lights, because gosh darnit I'm more important and need to get there faster! feth you.

Sad part is, I AM a much better driver than half the idiots on the road (I don't think it, I know it), and I can eat, talk, drink (soft beverages, folks) and play with the radio and I'll be better off than everyone else. Why? Because even though I'm doing other things, I accept the road takes priority, and I WILL drop my burger in my lap if something happens and I need both hands. I never tailgate, and I pay attention to cars way ahead of me-I see brake lights a quarter mile up, I start braking too. Those idiots who thought their distractions were more important than the road ruined it for the rest of us.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
I ran a red light when the turn only lane I was in didn't turn green at the same time as the straight lane next to me that a cop was sitting in. Got part way thru and realized what I just did, was too far in to go back and there was zero cross traffic so I went the rest of the way thru and pulled right to the side of the road. Cop pulled up behind me, got to the window and laughed at me a bit for jumping the gun. Checked license and registration, no harm no foul, and let me go with just a verbal warning. Man all cops are jerks.

Was this in the city or suburbs?

Suburb cops are usually extremely ready to write tickets. City cops usually don't care.

There's also the question of things like "Does the department measure officer efficiency based on tickets issued or quality of issued tickets?" and things like that.

But yeah. Generalizations are bad.

Yeah, no.

Edit: not at Kan

the time it takes you to realize something is happening, drop your burger, and move your hand to get onto the wheel of the car is more time than it takes to get into an accident.

The road traffic stuff is always a contentious point when it comes to dealings with police.

To put things into perspective I think it's wise to remember that the police don't just deal with issuing tickets. We also deal with road traffic accidents. They're not fun to deal with.

I've got a good friend who is a traffic cop. He is genuinely a really decent guy who enjoys going out for a beer and is always joking around and is just an all-round good bloke to be in company with. He's also pretty merciless when it comes to handing out tickets for speeding, careless driving, lights being out and so forth. His explanation for it is simple - he's been to far too many serious road traffic collisions, most of which occur because of a momentary lapse in concentration or error of judgement. He'd rather write a hundred tickets if it meant that one driver paid a bit more attention on the road and that caused one less bad accident.

Don't get me wrong, some cops give out tickets like confetti because they're on a power trip or they just like being dicks. But you will find that the majority of cops who like dishing out tickets are usually those who have at some point had to deal with a nasty RTC in their careers.

As far as the videos go - I can see their point and you should be aware of your rights at all times, although a half decent police force will be certain to advise you accordingly. We have to repeatedly inform suspects of their rights, ask if they want solicitor access, and if they understand all their rights on video AND we have to get them to sign a form confirming that we have done so and they understand (and that gets recorded on camera as well). To be brutally honest - if you're relying on tricking a suspect into confessing guilt to get enough evidence to charge him/her, you're doing it wrong.

The video is a bit misleadingly titled though, they're not saying 'Don't talk to the police under any circumstances!'. If a cop comes to your door and asks if you saw anyone suspicious last night because your neighbours house got broken into, then you're not really doing anyone any good by failing to mention the two guys you saw climbing out of his kitchen window at 2 in the morning

I've never really had a problem with police as a adult. I've gotten 2 speeding tickets, but in both cases I definitely earned them, so hard to get mad at a third party.

Between driving since 1998 and working in various fields I have had a lot of experience dealing with cops: city, county, state and federal. I feel safe saying that I have probably had extensive interactions with over one hunded so far.

I can think of only three that were just flat out dicks with a complex.

But I still think the video makes a very good point.

 Ouze wrote:
The last time I linked those videos on these forums I was accused of being a bad American for not helping justice.

I'd only think that wasn't one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, if Batman told it to me (and I'm not even American, but it's still Batman)

 timetowaste85 wrote:

Sad part is, I AM a much better driver than half the idiots on the road (I don't think it, I know it), and I can eat, talk, drink (soft beverages, folks) and play with the radio and I'll be better off than everyone else. Why? Because even though I'm doing other things, I accept the road takes priority, and I WILL drop my burger in my lap if something happens and I need both hands. I never tailgate, and I pay attention to cars way ahead of me-I see brake lights a quarter mile up, I start braking too. Those idiots who thought their distractions were more important than the road ruined it for the rest of us.

I work with traffic and truck safety. And you know the crazy thing, every driver says this crap. I don't just mean the same basic concept, I mean the same words. And yet somehow those peoplestill get into accidents and losses. Trust me, you ain't some godsend to driver, and your attitude is going to eventually lead to one.

Here's a little math for you:

Let's say you fiddle with the radio, or look at your phone or for any other reason look away from your task at hand. Let's say it is quick, how about...oh I dunno 1-3 seconds? That's pretty short, right? And to round this up, let's just put you on a highway with a reasonable 60 mph speed limit and say that you are right at that. For every second you look away from the road, your car travels something shy of 30 yards. So for 3 seconds, you are going nearly a football field in length where you are not looking at the road, Add in any oncoming traffic and all of those numbers double. Would you be willing to close your eyes while driving for that distance?

 Ouze wrote:
I've never really had a problem with police as a adult. I've gotten 2 speeding tickets, but in both cases I definitely earned them, so hard to get mad at a third party.

This has generally been me as well... I've gotten off a few tickets (that I probably deserved as well), but the ones I've gotten, the officers were very fair. (one even said "I clocked you doing 81, but I wrote the ticket saying 80 so you won't lose points on your license" which was pretty cool)

The "worst" one though was when a wind storm in Clarksville opened our front door (someone forgot the deadbolt), and the police came over to see if everything was alright. They didn't act like a-holes or anything, didn't press searching the house or anything.

 Lordhat wrote:
It's a long but entertaining watch.

Works exactly the same here. A french lawyer (Maître Eolas) explicitely wrote you had to say everything to your lawyer, but never, ever say anything to the policemen, nothing you can say will even help you, it can only make the situation worse.

Basically, if they did believe in your innocence they wouldn't have arrested you. In some countries, they also have superiors who are expecting them to charge you because it will make the statistics prettier. Why would you ever believe them?

Don't confess anything, don't deny anything, just shut up and let your lawyer handle everything.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
yes, but, in the case of fog they don't often come into play unless visibility is less than 1/4 mile (at ground level). As in the situation with my dad driving, you could clearly see the road, sidewalk on both sides of the road (and again, it was a large road), and you could see the traffic light (if not the actual post and containers) from at least a quarter mile away... So this idea that if we hadn't seen a car without lights, or some pedestrian or this random cop with a grudge to settle then something bad could happen is ludicrous.

And as I said... the ticket was thrown out. The judge clearly remembered the day, time and weather, was probably driving in it at the same time and judged that my dad was in the right for following the posted speed limit (he wasn't speeding... the section of road we were on was 35, and he was doing somewhere between 33-35 depending on how accurate the speedo was in that car). The judge also ordered an official reprimand on that particular officer as she was not properly following her duties.

When you said "fairly foggy" and gave no indication of road conditions it wasn't unreasonable to infer that visibility had been impacted. Also when you said he was "exactly the speed limit" initially rather than the revised 33-35mph in a 35mph zone that changes the matter a little.

You never talk to the police, everyone should know that

Seriously, their job is not to look for reasons to get you off the hook, they get paid to find any violations of the law and arrest you for them and ideally get enough evidence to charge you.

This has me smiling wistfully.

Glad that most users here have had nothing more to worry about other than violations whilst driving.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
This has me smiling wistfully.

Glad that most users here have had nothing more to worry about other than violations whilst driving.

QFT.

I beleive a recent US Supreme Court decision stated that statements made to the cops during casual consentual conversations are also admissable in court. Therefore, if a cop eve walks up to talk pleassantly with you; you could be incriminating yourself. Does taht mean if a cop talks to you you shold always plead the 5th? That sounds awkward.

Cop. "Good morning. Do you serve coffee here?"
Me "I'm going to have to plead my 5th amendment rights."
Cop "What? What kind of bakery is this?"
Me "I'm going to have to plead my 5th Amendment rights. I will not answer unless my lawyer is present."

Wierd.

If you are a witness not suspect, can pleading the fifth result in obstruction charge?

No, nobody can be forced to testify.

At worst, you can be subpenaed to appear. But as far as what you say on the stand is 100% up to you.

Whatever you do, if a cop ever asks if you're having a good day, don't ever tell him "hell yes, my girlfriend just gave me a hummer!" Oral sex is illegal (at least in most states, like NY). According to the letter of the law, oral is sodomy. Do they actively enforce it? Not likely. But if you tell one you just had it performed, he's more than able to uphold the law and charge you for sodomy. So don't tell a cop when you get a hummer! (Unless you're talking about the car).

The only brush I've ever had with police was after a hectic Saturday night out on the lash with a few mates. My friend, Big Nick (6ft 7" and pushing 25 stone) gets more than a little pissed, and passes out in the middle of the road. Three of us are trying to move the guy to the pavement, but we're all hammered as well and is just not happening. A Police van drives around the corner and a PC gets out to ask if we're all ok.
We say 'yup, but this fella ain't moving'. The PC says "ok, we'll help you get him in the van and take you guys home,ok?"

We were reluctant, mostly because at least one of us had around an ounce of prime Green in his pocket that we were planning on finishing the night with, but it was cold, so we decided 'What the hell'.
The cops helped us lug Big Nick in the van, we got back to his house and everything was gravy.

Nice guys, both.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
This has me smiling wistfully.

Glad that most users here have had nothing more to worry about other than violations whilst driving.

I had a cop put a shotgun to my head once, but I'm not going to talk about all the fun in LA here, and he was even right to do so.

Does that help?

People talk to me and my brother but I am retired now so ya. People there is no minimum tickets you need to give out and what you say to us will not be used against you lol. Unless your crazy or hiding something your fine.

and who decides if we are hiding something?

 Easy E wrote:
and who decides if we are hiding something?

I'll give you two guesses!

 kronk wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
and who decides if we are hiding something?

I'll give you two guesses!

'.............NGGGGNNNNNNFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUARRGGGGGGGHHHHHHOHGODNOOOOOOOOOOOOMOTHERHELP!...................'

Is there cop shorthand for that?