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 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Bullockist wrote:


As a non US citizen I find this spying horrific, do you guys consider it justified?
Are you ok with that level of surveillance ? not trolling (as according to dogma) just really curious.
is homeland security worth anything?

Provided the agencies follow EO 12333, I'd be more interested to know what the guys at CIA and NSA found to put certain senators/congressmen, etc. on a "watch list" or actively "spy" on them. And while I haven't actually read EO 12333, I know the gist of what's in there; So it does make me curious as to whether it applies to any agency outside of the DoD (so anyone other than DIA, MIC, ONI, and possibly NGIA)

Thanx for the explanation ensis, but your explanation made me cry. Is there no end to the number of acronyms that spy on people.....does it make you feel safer?

Lol, I haven't really used any "new" acronyms that weren't already explained in other posts


As for safer... not really, my exercising of the 2nd amendment makes me feel safer

 Bullockist wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Bullockist wrote:


As a non US citizen I find this spying horrific, do you guys consider it justified?
Are you ok with that level of surveillance ? not trolling (as according to dogma) just really curious.
is homeland security worth anything?

Provided the agencies follow EO 12333, I'd be more interested to know what the guys at CIA and NSA found to put certain senators/congressmen, etc. on a "watch list" or actively "spy" on them. And while I haven't actually read EO 12333, I know the gist of what's in there; So it does make me curious as to whether it applies to any agency outside of the DoD (so anyone other than DIA, MIC, ONI, and possibly NGIA)

Thanx for the explanation ensis, but your explanation made me cry. Is there no end to the number of acronyms that spy on people.....does it make you feel safer?

It's worse than that. The USA employs spies to spy on their own spies!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

It's worse than that. The USA employs spies to spy on their own spies!

So if spies spy on the spies, Who spies on the spies that spy on the spies?

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Lol, I haven't really used any "new" acronyms that weren't already explained in other posts


As for safer... not really, my exercising of the 2nd amendment makes me feel safer

Exactly... now you know why some of us cherish our gunz.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. --TJ

Tibbsy wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

It's worse than that. The USA employs spies to spy on their own spies!

So if spies spy on the spies, Who spies on the spies that spy on the spies?

It's a circle of spying. It cancels itself out. A spies on B, who spies on C, who spies on A.

Whats being glossed over is that it is extremely illegal for the CIA to perform domestic spying, unless authorized by the DOJ. Either they've committed serious criminal acts and people need to go to jail, or Holder authorized it, and he needs to be fired.

Can the CIA (or it's employees) be authorised to operate on US soil?

genuine question as I thought their terms of service specifically forbade it

(as opposed to individuals with appropriate skills being formally seconded to other US gov agencies that are allowed to behave this way)

Presumably if not (and they don't have the appropriate paper work to show they are not 'with' the CIA) they should all be off to the pokey, along with any other CIA employees who aided them in any way (even if they didn't know what their colleges were doing just like a driver who's mate robs a store without his knowledge while he waits in the car can end up doing time too)

 Frazzled wrote:
needs to be fired.

..out of a powerful cannon, into space.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Can the CIA (or it's employees) be authorised to operate on US soil?

genuine question as I thought their terms of service specifically forbade it

(as opposed to individuals with appropriate skills being formally seconded to other US gov agencies that are allowed to behave this way)

Presumably if not (and they don't have the appropriate paper work to show they are not 'with' the CIA) they should all be off to the pokey, along with any other CIA employees who aided them in any way (even if they didn't know what their colleges were doing just like a driver who's mate robs a store without his knowledge while he waits in the car can end up doing time too)

Pretty much just about every U.S. intelligence collection agency should fall under the guidelines set forth in EO 12333. EO 12333 does provide specific guidance on what grounds a U.S. entity (person, business, etc.) can be collected upon. The issue I always had with EO 12333 is that some of those criteria can be broad enough to be abused by those that choose to do so. It could be used to justify quite a bit actually, although I doubt as much would be held up as viable if it did ever come up under investigation.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Tibbsy wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

It's worse than that. The USA employs spies to spy on their own spies!

So if spies spy on the spies, Who spies on the spies that spy on the spies?

It's a circle of spying. It cancels itself out. A spies on B, who spies on C, who spies on A.

Meanwhile, while they're so busy in their own little circle jerk of spying... that "Russian" dude (actually, just insert random foreign government that has interests against us) is running about, stealing secrets (or, ya know, being given them by "Patriots" like Assange or Manning, etc)

I'd be more annoyed that the agency that's supposed to spend it's time and money spying on external threats to the US is wasting it's money spying inside the borders.

I thought you guys were all about controlling government spending?

 Da Boss wrote:
I'd be more annoyed that the agency that's supposed to spend it's time and money spying on external threats to the US is wasting it's money spying inside the borders.

I thought you guys were all about controlling government spending?

They pick and choose their make work projects.