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I do find it funny that senators who didn't mind the nsa spying on every day americans mind when the cia spy on them. In any case, man, this looks terrible. .
Sorry, I'm no longer really surprised when spy agencies are spying on people they aren't really supposed to be spying on. They're spies, it's what they do.
I wouldn't even say the Senate was okay with the NSA's spying. The things the Senate was prepared to let the NSA do differed greatly from what the NSA actually did.
The CIA and NSA (and to a lesser extent the military intelligence services MIC and ONI) have always had antagonistic relations with Congress and the White House to the point of lying rather blatantly about their activities (and lying about intelligence operations as well). Don't expect anything to be done about it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 05:39:28
I do find it funny that senators who didn't mind the nsa spying on every day americans mind when the cia spy on them. In any case, man, this looks terrible. .
I must admit it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when the people who set this type of thing in motion get some of the "benefits"
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
Eh, I'm less worried about NRO and NGIA as their focuses are rather narrow.
CIA, NSA, and DIA, have rather broad passes to do whatever they please and "national security" gets thrown out to shut down anyone asking what it is they're actually doing (Including US Representatives and Senators). JSOC has also been accused of of being a "rogue army" operating with virtually no oversight.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 05:56:19
The NRO does provide SIGINT to the NSA, which I can pretty much guarantee played into PRISM. The difference is that most people don't actually know the NRO exists, while everyone knows the NSA does. I mean, its been the bad guy in so many movies that they must.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 06:09:35
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
dogma wrote: The NRO does provide SIGINT to the NSA, which I can pretty much guarantee played into PRISM.
NRO manages satellites and the NGIA draws maps. NRO and NGIA have big resources, but they're more like the utility belts of US intelligence. They don't set the agenda they just do what the agenda tells them to, the agenda setters being CIA and NSA (with DIA being kind of a wild card). That's how I see it anyway. My issues with US intelligence have mostly been with the highly questionable judgement showed by the CIA in particular and how the Intelligence services have become a political lobby all their own and spy and manipulate the body responsible for overseeing them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 06:14:42
Yeah I agree with all of that, I just heap a bit more blame on the other two members of the big 5. The NRO in particular because they intercept transcontinental internet traffic, pass it on to the NSA, who then might pass it on to the CIA or DIA.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Sorry, I'm no longer really surprised when spy agencies are spying on people they aren't really supposed to be spying on. They're spies, it's what they do.
So spies are supposed to spy on people they're not supposed to spy on, making them people they're supposed to spy on, meaning those aren't the ones they should go after, meaning…
Aargh, I hate paradoxes.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Somebody (John Brennan ) has got to go to get fired for this, if only pour encourager les autres.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Tibbsy wrote: There are FAR too many acronyms in this thread...
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
National Security Agency (NSA)
Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
Army Military Intelligence Corps (MIC or MI)
Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI)
National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)
National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA or NGIA)
Joint Strike Operations Command (JSOC), part of Special Operations Command (SOCOM)
SIGINT means Signal Intelligence, so stuff like internet, phone calls, radio etc
People say a lot of crazy things.
Yeah, but JSOC has for example in the early drone campaign in Pakistan shown a habit of acting first and asking for permission later (but that's a problem in most US intelligence and special ops agencies to varying degrees).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 12:20:34
Sorry, I'm no longer really surprised when spy agencies are spying on people they aren't really supposed to be spying on. They're spies, it's what they do.
So spies are supposed to spy on people they're not supposed to spy on, making them people they're supposed to spy on, meaning those aren't the ones they should go after, meaning…
Aargh, I hate paradoxes.
Not really a paradox. They're not supposed to spy on certain people, but that doesn't mean that I believe for a second that they aren't spying on them anyway. Like when people say "the CIA can't operate in the continental US, that's for the FBI!" I just sort of shake my head and go "sure...".
Tibbsy wrote: There are FAR too many acronyms in this thread...
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
National Security Agency (NSA)
Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
Army Military Intelligence Corps (MIC or MI)
Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI)
National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)
National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA or NGIA)
Joint Strike Operations Command (JSOC), part of Special Operations Command (SOCOM)
SIGINT means Signal Intelligence, so stuff like internet, phone calls, radio etc
People say a lot of crazy things.
Yeah, but JSOC has for example in the early drone campaign in Pakistan shown a habit of acting first and asking for permission later (but that's a problem in most US intelligence and special ops agencies to varying degrees).
That's a LOT of freedom you guys have there, I'd like to say I am jealous...but I'm not at all. honestly is the US the biggest police state ever? ( I must admit I was well shocked by the number of agencies)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 15:39:19
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
Tibbsy wrote: There are FAR too many acronyms in this thread...
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
National Security Agency (NSA)
Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
Army Military Intelligence Corps (MIC or MI)
Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI)
National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)
National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA or NGIA)
Joint Strike Operations Command (JSOC), part of Special Operations Command (SOCOM)
SIGINT means Signal Intelligence, so stuff like internet, phone calls, radio etc
People say a lot of crazy things.
Yeah, but JSOC has for example in the early drone campaign in Pakistan shown a habit of acting first and asking for permission later (but that's a problem in most US intelligence and special ops agencies to varying degrees).
That's a LOT of freedom you guys have there, I'd like to say I am jealous...but I'm not at all. honestly is the US the biggest police state ever? ( I must admit I was well shocked by the number of agencies)
Yeah, someone felt that it was a good idea to break apart the main "styles" of intelligence gathering into separate agencies. The NSA primarily deals with ELINT and SIGINT, while the CIA primarily deals in HUMINT, NGIA primarily (actually almost exclusively here) deals in IMINT. The only guys who really have a primary, multi-function intelligence gathering ability is the DoD with the army's MIC and ONI (with some "oversight" provided by DIA).
There are some other significant differences in the various branches of Intelligence gathering in the US. For instance, if you work in any Federal job with a computer account, all the rules, and BS you have to follow are thanks to NSA "rules" so some guys, like the NSA also have an administrative/guiding purpose beyond just "spying"
whembly wrote: Great, we can ask the CIA if they have Lerner's emails.
*meh* What steamdragon said... is anyone truly surprised?
Is not being surprised ok for the freedoms these guys compromise for so little real value?
As a non US citizen I find this spying horrific, do you guys consider it justified?
Are you ok with that level of surveillance ? not trolling (as according to dogma) just really curious.
is homeland security worth anything?
MY government is pulling some 2002 bsatm, so I am interested in hearing opinions from a state who has experienced it.
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
As a non US citizen I find this spying horrific, do you guys consider it justified?
Are you ok with that level of surveillance ? not trolling (as according to dogma) just really curious.
is homeland security worth anything?
Provided the agencies follow EO 12333, I'd be more interested to know what the guys at CIA and NSA found to put certain senators/congressmen, etc. on a "watch list" or actively "spy" on them. And while I haven't actually read EO 12333, I know the gist of what's in there; So it does make me curious as to whether it applies to any agency outside of the DoD (so anyone other than DIA, MIC, ONI, and possibly NGIA)
Individually, there's quite a few people who are completely not okay with it. The problem is that for every one of those, there's a good little Citizen who'd defend the practice to the death, and then about 500 people who just don't care.
There's an old Texas saying: when there's bull gak on the streets, somebody gotta sweep it up.
Now, I was under the impression that the senate/congress/president etc made the laws of the land in the USA. Given that the CIA and other spy agencies are accountable to somebody (or supposed to be) can't these fine law making bodies kick some ass and hold people accountable?
I've been looking through my copy of the US constitution. There is nothing in it that says the NSA or the CIA is exempt from the laws governing the United States...or am I missing something?
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
I've been looking through my copy of the US constitution. There is nothing in it that says the NSA or the CIA is exempt from the laws governing the United States...or am I missing something?
It's probably in the same section were Senators/Congressmen write themselves every exemption from the laws as possible
I've been looking through my copy of the US constitution. There is nothing in it that says the NSA or the CIA is exempt from the laws governing the United States...or am I missing something?
It's probably in the same section were Senators/Congressmen write themselves every exemption from the laws as possible
I yearn for the days when you had a president like Andrew Jackson who threatened to hang congressmen when they stepped out of line
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
I've been looking through my copy of the US constitution. There is nothing in it that says the NSA or the CIA is exempt from the laws governing the United States...or am I missing something?
It's probably in the same section were Senators/Congressmen write themselves every exemption from the laws as possible
I yearn for the days when you had a president like Andrew Jackson who threatened to hang congressmen when they stepped out of line
Desert Hunters of Vior'la 
The Purge 
Iron Hands 
Adepts of Pestilence 
Tallaran Desert Raiders 
Grey Knight Teleport Assault Force
2000pts 
