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Taffy17 wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
At any rate, the appearance of the Ethereals predates the storm, as I understand it.

I believe the storm appeared shortly after their first discovery by humanity, at which point they'd only just discovered fire while the ethereal's appeared while they had developed cannons and were using them against each other which must be during the storm.

Now if the warp storm was all around T'au that would mean who ever put the Ethereal's there, and I believe someone did, would have had to be able to traverse a warp storm or be responsible for creating said warp storm. The only things that I think could do this are either a powerful psycher such as those found amongst the Eldar or a powerful daemon.

Another thought is could the Emperor be able to generate warp storms?

Could the Emperor know of the Tau's immunity to chaos and be helping them from his throne in hope that they will destroy it? I've said it before but I like this idea.

If I remember correctly, it was not just the one world, but a very large area that was blocked off. Multiple star systems.

The Imperium saw a warp storm. That doesn't necessarily mean there was a warp storm. The relevant actors that could reasonably do the Etherial thing (Eldar, Tzeech, possbly Big-E) could all probably ensure the Imperium believed there was a warp-storm there, whether or not there really was.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If I remember correctly, it was not just the one world, but a very large area that was blocked off. Multiple star systems.

Your probably right however at that point which the Ethereal's arrived the Tau only inhabited T'au, so I don't think it makes much difference

Taffy17 wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If I remember correctly, it was not just the one world, but a very large area that was blocked off. Multiple star systems.

Your probably right however at that point which the Ethereal's arrived the Tau only inhabited T'au, so I don't think it makes much difference

True.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

If the Armless Wonder has no trouble beating the crap out of Humanity's best in the 41st Millenium, it should be no surprise that more competent forces- from the Orks, to Eldar, to Tau- have no trouble turning aside the "might" of the Imperium.

Abaddon didn't take Cadia easily. He was victorious, yes, but at great cost, nearly to the extent of a Pyrrhic victory.

*MY* favorite theory leaves both of those out, and has the Tau being manipulated by the last Old One. The Tau, unique among the galaxy's powers, are dynamic, intelligent, and creative. Humanity has a lifespan at least three times that of the Tau- the Eldar a thousand times greater- and neither race is capable of many of the technological feats the Tau have made in the last 6,000 years. Of all the wars and all the weapons employed against Chaos and the Necrons, only one was never fully brought to bear. for it was never truly finished. It may be that the Tau are destined to create a control mechanism for the Orks, and use them to crush the Tyranids, Chaos, the Necrons, and Imperial Cult, and to bring peace to the galaxy.

DAoT Humanity would like a word. What the Tau do now is not particularly impressive, as nothing they currently field was not fielded (and done better) by Humanity at a previous point in their history.

In fact, pound-for-pound, the Tau are no more advanced than the Imperium.

That is very true, but give tau the same amount of time as humanity has had, and tau might even be able to reach eldar levels. Tau have greater average tech, but the imperium has greater maximum tech.

Not really, no.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Technology

Let's look at starship technology. Until the discovery of psykers, humans traveled the same way Tau do. Humanity never created ships that were an improvement over Tau designs until AFTER psykers were acknowledged and used.

I'll repeat- the primary thing humanity has that the Tau don't is MAGIC. That's the only advantage humanity has ever had.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tau_Drone

Compared to the Iron Men, it seems Tau drones are on par in terms of intelligence, but being superior in their loyalty to the Tau. (Point for Tau)

At any rate, I don't believe humanity could rebuilt the Men of Iron even if they wanted to with current technology.

"The original designs for both the armour used in the Land Raider and the anti-gravitic technology used by the Land Speeder were discovered during an expedition deep into the Librarius Omnis on Mars by technoarchaeologist Arkhan Land, after whom the vehicles were named"

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Land_Raider

Based on this, and the lack of more advanced designs, it is reasonable to assume tanks like the Predator, Leman Russ, and Land Raider represent tank technology during the DAoT. The Hammerhead, of course, is a superior tank, armed with a superior tank gun.

I find you constant lack of knowledge regarding 40k to be absolutely hilarious, especially how much you spank the tau.

"Kotov’s fragile consciousness plunged deeper and deeper, the gossamer-thin lifeline held by Magos Blaylock a tremulous thread in a firestorm of golden light. He saw systems flicker past his floodstream that were as alien to him as anything the most secretive xenotech might dream of in his fevered nightmares, and technological echoes of machines that surely predated the Imperium itself. Power generation that could harness the galactic background radiation to propel ships beyond lightspeed, weapon-tech that could crack open planets and event horizon machines that had the power to drag entire star systems into their light- and time-swallowing embrace. All this and more dwelled here, ancient data, forgotten lore and locked vaults where the secrets of the ancients had been hidden. In this one, fleeting glance, Kotov realised he had been a fool to drag this proud starship into the howling emptiness of space in search of hidden secrets. The Speranza was the greatest secret of all, and in its heart it held the truth of all things, the key to unlocking all that the Mechanicus had ever dreamed. Yet that knowledge was sealed behind impenetrable barriers, bound in the heart of the mighty vessel for good reason. The knowledge of the Men of Gold and their ancient ancestors was encoded in its very bones, enmeshed within every diamond helix of its structure.
Pgs.250-251 Priests of Mars

The DAOT had FTL drives that harnessed background radiation from the big bang to break lightspeed. They created gravity wells that could move entire solar systems on their whim, crack planets at will, etc. Land Raiders were most certainly not their MBT's, not when we know the personal shield generators like iron halos and other force fields are DAOT relics. Land Raiders, if they were even used back then, are either a re-purposed STC or were just their version of an APC. Troops were probably shielded by things like iron halos mass produced for everyone, and their ships could zip around largely unhindered and had the firepower to make Tau ships look like firecrackers. DAOT humanity had power generation laughably beyond the Tau, and was beyond Craftworld or Dark Eldar, the only civilization arguably greater than them were the Necrons and Eldar Empire.

Cassius had studied the topography of Styxia Prime whilst travelling through the warp on the way to the system. It had three major landmasses, the largest of which was Downland, covering nearly twenty-eight million square kilometres. Many thousands of years ago, sometime during the Dark Age of Technology, the first human settlers had come to this world and re-ordered the planet to their liking. Mountains had been levelled, seas filled in and rivers diverted to create a land of pastures and gentle uplands. At the heart of Downland were four artificial volcanoes, delved into the earth to bring forth nutrient-rich expulsions that were conveyed by land and water to the mega-farms. The hills around these volcanoes had been seeded with fast-growing trees to provide hard timber, and it was from this dense wood that many of Styxia Prime’s buildings were constructed, with only the largest and most important edifices, such as the starport and governor’s palace, being supplemented with ferrocrete panels and ornamented with sandstone blocks quarried from the coastal cliffs.

They also could terraform planets to their complete whim like we shape clay.

Then there's other stuff from Death of Integrity with the sentient ship that spun circles around everyone and took complete control over the terminators that entered, and used a servitor as a puppet. And I distinctly remember there being a black hole gun somewhere else in the Mechanicus trilogy that fired shots back in time to ensure they arrived at their target near tachyon speeds. Also, no, Tau drones are nothing like DAOT AI unless Tau drones are capable of feeling emotion and are fully sentient. The Men of Iron fell because they were self aware, hence why the Admech prefers the use of "dumb AI" or human brains in a jar after the whole abominable intelligent incident.

I have not read that book. Nevertheless, is there something that proves the "AI" wasn't a powerful daemon? I'm unaware of how electrons and fuses can shackle the human soul. That sounds like the Warp, not technology.

Mayhaps the same could be said of the Men of Iron. They weren't robots, perhaps- but daemons locked into machines... like possessed land raiders.

Heck, what proves humanity, and not the Old Ones, created the ship? How would the Imperium truly know the difference, as locked in superstition and ignorance as it is?

While ships and robots that may or may not have been possessed by daemons are one thing, has a tank from the DAoT that *isn't* from an STC ever been found? Surely, they'd be around somewhere, with their Iron Halos and teleporters, right?

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

If the Armless Wonder has no trouble beating the crap out of Humanity's best in the 41st Millenium, it should be no surprise that more competent forces- from the Orks, to Eldar, to Tau- have no trouble turning aside the "might" of the Imperium.

Abaddon didn't take Cadia easily. He was victorious, yes, but at great cost, nearly to the extent of a Pyrrhic victory.

*MY* favorite theory leaves both of those out, and has the Tau being manipulated by the last Old One. The Tau, unique among the galaxy's powers, are dynamic, intelligent, and creative. Humanity has a lifespan at least three times that of the Tau- the Eldar a thousand times greater- and neither race is capable of many of the technological feats the Tau have made in the last 6,000 years. Of all the wars and all the weapons employed against Chaos and the Necrons, only one was never fully brought to bear. for it was never truly finished. It may be that the Tau are destined to create a control mechanism for the Orks, and use them to crush the Tyranids, Chaos, the Necrons, and Imperial Cult, and to bring peace to the galaxy.

DAoT Humanity would like a word. What the Tau do now is not particularly impressive, as nothing they currently field was not fielded (and done better) by Humanity at a previous point in their history.

In fact, pound-for-pound, the Tau are no more advanced than the Imperium.

That is very true, but give tau the same amount of time as humanity has had, and tau might even be able to reach eldar levels. Tau have greater average tech, but the imperium has greater maximum tech.

Not really, no.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Technology

Let's look at starship technology. Until the discovery of psykers, humans traveled the same way Tau do. Humanity never created ships that were an improvement over Tau designs until AFTER psykers were acknowledged and used.

I'll repeat- the primary thing humanity has that the Tau don't is MAGIC. That's the only advantage humanity has ever had.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tau_Drone

Compared to the Iron Men, it seems Tau drones are on par in terms of intelligence, but being superior in their loyalty to the Tau. (Point for Tau)

At any rate, I don't believe humanity could rebuilt the Men of Iron even if they wanted to with current technology.

"The original designs for both the armour used in the Land Raider and the anti-gravitic technology used by the Land Speeder were discovered during an expedition deep into the Librarius Omnis on Mars by technoarchaeologist Arkhan Land, after whom the vehicles were named"

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Land_Raider

Based on this, and the lack of more advanced designs, it is reasonable to assume tanks like the Predator, Leman Russ, and Land Raider represent tank technology during the DAoT. The Hammerhead, of course, is a superior tank, armed with a superior tank gun.

I find you constant lack of knowledge regarding 40k to be absolutely hilarious, especially how much you spank the tau.

"Kotov’s fragile consciousness plunged deeper and deeper, the gossamer-thin lifeline held by Magos Blaylock a tremulous thread in a firestorm of golden light. He saw systems flicker past his floodstream that were as alien to him as anything the most secretive xenotech might dream of in his fevered nightmares, and technological echoes of machines that surely predated the Imperium itself. Power generation that could harness the galactic background radiation to propel ships beyond lightspeed, weapon-tech that could crack open planets and event horizon machines that had the power to drag entire star systems into their light- and time-swallowing embrace. All this and more dwelled here, ancient data, forgotten lore and locked vaults where the secrets of the ancients had been hidden. In this one, fleeting glance, Kotov realised he had been a fool to drag this proud starship into the howling emptiness of space in search of hidden secrets. The Speranza was the greatest secret of all, and in its heart it held the truth of all things, the key to unlocking all that the Mechanicus had ever dreamed. Yet that knowledge was sealed behind impenetrable barriers, bound in the heart of the mighty vessel for good reason. The knowledge of the Men of Gold and their ancient ancestors was encoded in its very bones, enmeshed within every diamond helix of its structure.
Pgs.250-251 Priests of Mars

The DAOT had FTL drives that harnessed background radiation from the big bang to break lightspeed. They created gravity wells that could move entire solar systems on their whim, crack planets at will, etc. Land Raiders were most certainly not their MBT's, not when we know the personal shield generators like iron halos and other force fields are DAOT relics. Land Raiders, if they were even used back then, are either a re-purposed STC or were just their version of an APC. Troops were probably shielded by things like iron halos mass produced for everyone, and their ships could zip around largely unhindered and had the firepower to make Tau ships look like firecrackers. DAOT humanity had power generation laughably beyond the Tau, and was beyond Craftworld or Dark Eldar, the only civilization arguably greater than them were the Necrons and Eldar Empire.

Cassius had studied the topography of Styxia Prime whilst travelling through the warp on the way to the system. It had three major landmasses, the largest of which was Downland, covering nearly twenty-eight million square kilometres. Many thousands of years ago, sometime during the Dark Age of Technology, the first human settlers had come to this world and re-ordered the planet to their liking. Mountains had been levelled, seas filled in and rivers diverted to create a land of pastures and gentle uplands. At the heart of Downland were four artificial volcanoes, delved into the earth to bring forth nutrient-rich expulsions that were conveyed by land and water to the mega-farms. The hills around these volcanoes had been seeded with fast-growing trees to provide hard timber, and it was from this dense wood that many of Styxia Prime’s buildings were constructed, with only the largest and most important edifices, such as the starport and governor’s palace, being supplemented with ferrocrete panels and ornamented with sandstone blocks quarried from the coastal cliffs.

They also could terraform planets to their complete whim like we shape clay.

Then there's other stuff from Death of Integrity with the sentient ship that spun circles around everyone and took complete control over the terminators that entered, and used a servitor as a puppet. And I distinctly remember there being a black hole gun somewhere else in the Mechanicus trilogy that fired shots back in time to ensure they arrived at their target near tachyon speeds. Also, no, Tau drones are nothing like DAOT AI unless Tau drones are capable of feeling emotion and are fully sentient. The Men of Iron fell because they were self aware, hence why the Admech prefers the use of "dumb AI" or human brains in a jar after the whole abominable intelligent incident.

I have not read that book. Nevertheless, is there something that proves the "AI" wasn't a powerful daemon? I'm unaware of how electrons and fuses can shackle the human soul. That sounds like the Warp, not technology.

Mayhaps the same could be said of the Men of Iron. They weren't robots, perhaps- but daemons locked into machines... like possessed land raiders.

Heck, what proves humanity, and not the Old Ones, created the ship? How would the Imperium truly know the difference, as locked in superstition and ignorance as it is?

While ships and robots that may or may not have been possessed by daemons are one thing, has a tank from the DAoT that *isn't* from an STC ever been found? Surely, they'd be around somewhere, with their Iron Halos and teleporters, right?

The Imperium may have some more advanced technology than Tau however the Tau are more willing to embrace it in every walk of life as they don't believe in machine spirits and haven't experienced a dark age of technology or whatever yet.

Can we get back on topic please?

Taffy17 wrote:

The Imperium may have some more advanced technology than Tau however the Tau are more willing to embrace it in every walk of life as they don't believe in machine spirits and haven't experienced a dark age of technology or whatever yet.

Can we get back on topic please?

Well... did you like any of the theories we have?

The topic is theoretical at best.

Do the Tau have a greater purpose (other than being a product line to attract anime fans)?

We don't know, GW has never said. Everything beyond this point is nothing but speculation.

To be fair, my Eldar theory might be speculation, but it has in-universe backing from several different sources. So right now the Eldar theory makes more sense then ''Tzeentch did it'' or ''Blame it on the Emperor'' due to backing. Speculation=/=Baseless Speculation.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:

The Imperium may have some more advanced technology than Tau however the Tau are more willing to embrace it in every walk of life as they don't believe in machine spirits and haven't experienced a dark age of technology or whatever yet.

Can we get back on topic please?

Well... did you like any of the theories we have?

It appeared to have descended into a comparison of imperial, eldar and tau tech. Apologies if I'm mistaken and there was a connection to a greater purpose to the Tau which I was missing. if so please continue. Its probably down to my lack of knowledge in imperial history fluff and I would very much appreciate it if you could enlighten me on your subject.

 Psienesis wrote:
The topic is theoretical at best.

Do the Tau have a greater purpose (other than being a product line to attract anime fans)?

We don't know, GW has never said. Everything beyond this point is nothing but speculation.

Yes it is all theoretical however I believe that there are too many connected nuggets of information for there not be either a greater or darker and sinister purpose behind the Tau

Of course there's a sinister purpose behind the Tau, this is Warhammer 40,000.

Will that purpose ever be revealed to us, the players?

Probably not.

Yeah, there's a sinister purpose behind the Tau.

The Tau are the work of the Necrons. Probably either Trollzyn or the Silent King, as the two 'known' Overlords who have been consistently active during the Great Sleep.

Their non-psychic communication and rapidly advancing technology point towards this. The 'tall figures' could easily be Necron platforms (A: the Tau are short, so everyone is 'tall' to them, and B: high-class Necrons are fricken giants), and mysterious lights are their stock-in-trade, whether lightning discharges or corposant glows.

The dragon that brought the Ethereals to T'au was plainly a spacecraft. The unholy wail of it points towards a Night Scythe.

As for why? They are a weapon against the Tyranids. With non-psychic FTL communication (far more important than FTL travel), they are uniquely situated to fight the Tyranid. While other races stumble blindly, the Tau can co-ordinate infinitely.

Nah. Necrons aren't competent enough enough to achieve something so that epic.

Tau don't have any hidden purpose. They're here cause they were lucky not to get wiped by the imperium in time.

GW writers take the concept and max it out.

But the existing fluff couldn't allow a too huge or aggressive new-race empire cause at the time of tau introduction all the stories were basically focusing on 'Imperium crushing all opposition'. If you look at the xeno empires crushed by humans, the only logical solution for early tau not being touched is that they were not significant enough to focus the effort on them and were lucky with the warp storm.

Time passed, Imperium degradated and tau progressed and now it's at the state of inability to pull enough resources to wipe the allready solid Tau empire. Theoretically, the Imperium could crush them due to overhelming numbers and advanced warp-travel technology but that'd draw too much forces away from other vital locations and the loss would be enormously higher than profit.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Nah. Necrons aren't competent enough enough to achieve something so that epic.

Urm COUGHWARINHEAVEN!

Dear heavens, I don't know where that ca-

COUGHSILENTKINGCOUGH!

Excuse me, something appears to be stuck in my throat.

BlaxicanX wrote:Nah. Necrons aren't competent enough enough to achieve something so that epic.

Heh. Not sure if joking or deluded...

koooaei wrote:Tau don't have any hidden purpose. They're here cause they were lucky not to get wiped by the imperium in time.

GW writers take the concept and max it out.

But the existing fluff couldn't allow a too huge or aggressive new-race empire cause at the time of tau introduction all the stories were basically focusing on 'Imperium crushing all opposition'. If you look at the xeno empires crushed by humans, the only logical solution for early tau not being touched is that they were not significant enough to focus the effort on them and were lucky with the warp storm.

Time passed, Imperium degradated and tau progressed and now it's at the state of inability to pull enough resources to wipe the allready solid Tau empire. Theoretically, the Imperium could crush them due to overhelming numbers and advanced warp-travel technology but that'd draw too much forces away from other vital locations and the loss would be enormously higher than profit.

Uh, the Tau were discovered in M36. The Imperium kind of had bigger problems back then - like, you know, the Reign of Blood. The former half of M36. was the second half of the Age of Apostasy, when the Imperium was being driven into the ground by the Ecclesiarchy and coming apart at the seams... and the latter half of M36. saw the Imperium focussed on rebuilding its infrastructure and getting back on its feet.

I love reading the initial reports of what happened when the Imperium first found the Tau. Basically drove by, noticed a bunch of barbarians and ear-marked T'au for cleansing at some other point. Naturally, someone didn't file the appropriate paperwork in septiplicate and the orders never made it through.

Basically, the Tau are a bunch of lucky fethers that the Imperium haven't had time to annihilate yet.

So no, the Tau have no place in the future of the Milky Way, if anything, they'll be a speed bump for some bigger race, probably the Imperium or Tyranids.

The Tau being engineered by the Eldar has a lot of stuff backing it up. Most of this stuff comes from Xenology though, so there's always the chance that GW doesn't remember its existance. It's notable that Eldrad has a quote regarding the Tau which, while EXTREMELY friendly, implies he's NOT aware of any greater existance of them.

So, if Xenology is correct and the Eldar DID engineer the Tau for some greater purpose, it might have been forgotten about them or maybe it was done by some minor craft world in secret and even Eldrad didn't know about it. Or... some other possiblitiy.

Basically, Xenology heavily implies the Eldar engineered them for something, but Eldard's quote implies that while he has a subconscious love for them, he doesn't have any conscious knowledge of them in an Eldar plan.

Maybe in an attempt to keep the Tau a secret from Chaos, the Eldar set things up so that they engineered the Tau's advance but wiped their own memories about it. That would explain why Eldrad has fond feelings for them (implied in Eldard's quote to have some ulterior reason for existing) despite not having any knowledge of them in an Eldar plan.

That is because Xenology is written from an in-character perspective, and the characters writing the book are largely insane and incompetent.

Taffy17 wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:

The Imperium may have some more advanced technology than Tau however the Tau are more willing to embrace it in every walk of life as they don't believe in machine spirits and haven't experienced a dark age of technology or whatever yet.

Can we get back on topic please?

Well... did you like any of the theories we have?

It appeared to have descended into a comparison of imperial, eldar and tau tech. Apologies if I'm mistaken and there was a connection to a greater purpose to the Tau which I was missing. if so please continue. Its probably down to my lack of knowledge in imperial history fluff and I would very much appreciate it if you could enlighten me on your subject.

It descended when a mindless servitor suggested that T'au was enveloped by a warpstorm and they ascended so quickly because of time warp... which is silly, because if it did, daemons would have ate the Tau.

I did posit a number of theories long before that- most notably, my favorite involving the Orks. It's really the only way humanity can possibly survive the 41st millenia.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:Nah. Necrons aren't competent enough enough to achieve something so that epic.

Heh. Not sure if joking or deluded...

The C'tan won the War in Heaven, not the Necrons. The necrons hid because the Eldar were wiping the floor with them.

It is worth noting that, on the battlefield, Tau technology compares favorably to Eldar more often than not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frankenberry wrote:

Basically, the Tau are a bunch of lucky fethers that the Imperium haven't had time to annihilate yet.

So no, the Tau have no place in the future of the Milky Way, if anything, they'll be a speed bump for some bigger race, probably the Imperium or Tyranids.

The Tau are the ONLY race in 40k actively progressing technologically. Everyone else has hit their zenith and are either maintaining their level or falling down. A hundred years from current date, Tau may have technological supremacy against every other race in 40k. In 500 years, no question whatsoever. Massed AX-1-0 formations will bring down even the biggest Titans quickly, able to move from formation to formation easily.

Humanity, though, is fethed. If takes very little for an important piece of technology to be forgotten. If Abaddon or the Nids or Orks or Necrons sack the right handful of worlds, Titan production or Land Raider production or even bolter production could be crippled.

Then where is humanity?

It's left with only the Tau Empire for hope. Abaddon sacked Cadia and has left the Imperium reeling. Imagine what the Guardsmen there would have done if they had pulse rifles instead of las-rifles.

If Tau are the only hope for the Imperium...

Oh god I can't take it seriously. Why does everyone think Tau are important? Squats were arguably more important and we see what happened to them. Not to mention the Tau are already in-fighting, I don't put much stock in them as a powerhouse off the tabletop. 500 years? According to most fluff the end is nigh in the next 100, which will never happen because the story will never advance.

It will all probably end with a glorious battle, the end of the Imperium and the rest of organized society. All that will be left are Necrons and Tyranids.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:

The Imperium may have some more advanced technology than Tau however the Tau are more willing to embrace it in every walk of life as they don't believe in machine spirits and haven't experienced a dark age of technology or whatever yet.

Can we get back on topic please?

Well... did you like any of the theories we have?

It appeared to have descended into a comparison of imperial, eldar and tau tech. Apologies if I'm mistaken and there was a connection to a greater purpose to the Tau which I was missing. if so please continue. Its probably down to my lack of knowledge in imperial history fluff and I would very much appreciate it if you could enlighten me on your subject.

It descended when a mindless servitor suggested that T'au was enveloped by a warpstorm and they ascended so quickly because of time warp... which is silly, because if it did, daemons would have ate the Tau.

I did posit a number of theories long before that- most notably, my favorite involving the Orks. It's really the only way humanity can possibly survive the 41st millenia.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:Nah. Necrons aren't competent enough enough to achieve something so that epic.

Heh. Not sure if joking or deluded...

The C'tan won the War in Heaven, not the Necrons. The necrons hid because the Eldar were wiping the floor with them.

It is worth noting that, on the battlefield, Tau technology compares favorably to Eldar more often than not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frankenberry wrote:

Basically, the Tau are a bunch of lucky fethers that the Imperium haven't had time to annihilate yet.

So no, the Tau have no place in the future of the Milky Way, if anything, they'll be a speed bump for some bigger race, probably the Imperium or Tyranids.

The Tau are the ONLY race in 40k actively progressing technologically. Everyone else has hit their zenith and are either maintaining their level or falling down. A hundred years from current date, Tau may have technological supremacy against every other race in 40k. In 500 years, no question whatsoever. Massed AX-1-0 formations will bring down even the biggest Titans quickly, able to move from formation to formation easily.

Humanity, though, is fethed. If takes very little for an important piece of technology to be forgotten. If Abaddon or the Nids or Orks or Necrons sack the right handful of worlds, Titan production or Land Raider production or even bolter production could be crippled.

Then where is humanity?

It's left with only the Tau Empire for hope. Abaddon sacked Cadia and has left the Imperium reeling. Imagine what the Guardsmen there would have done if they had pulse rifles instead of las-rifles.

OK, now another question. Do you even war? You could have handed guardsmen bolters and it would have never amounted to anything on Cadia. Rifles are just used for suppression, which the lasgun is infinitely superior to the Pulse Rifle and Pulse Carbine in that case as logistics > lethality. Cadia did not fall because of poorly equipped Guardsmen, it fell because a massive force of nearly unlimited bodies dumped on the planet that swamped the local military and forced them into trench warfare to survive. Rifles are rarely ever used for actually killing people, most casualties are the result of artillery, mortars, grenades, and L/HMG's. A rifle is just used typically to give the person you're pointing it at good reason to keep his head down, ie suppressive fire. Which is then followed up by various indirect fire. Tau tech is actually inferior to most of the Imperium's due to their reliance on railguns, which while powerful, are downright horrible to actually hit something far away. The best thing about their military is VTOL tanks, drones, and missiles, and well, that's about it. Railguns are cool toys but are only good for penetrating feasible things. They don't replace artillery or mortars... which the Tau seem to have stupidly done.

Hell by your logic, Germany should have won WWII due to the STG-44, MP40, and other advanced german rifles and submachineguns at the time... when in reality they got their asses kicked because they didn't have the logistics to take on mass production like the Soviet Union or America (Britain somewhat as well, although IIRC they weren't as industrialized to the degree of the USA and USSR in WWII.)

And of course, your usual tau spanking is hilarious and unsupported completely by the fluff. The Tau Empire cannot "save" the Imperium, they have nothing to offer. Most of their tech is more gimmicky than the space marines and a whole galactic empire cannot suddenly start producing tau vehicles off the bat, it'd require an industrial overhaul that would take over a millennia of completely scrapping every single forge world in the entire Imperium to switch over to Tau tech. Not to mention that lore-wise as well, the Tau Empire is irrelevent on the galactic plane and is an unremarkable dot on the galactic map, like many of the other unnamed alien empires in 40K that control a handful of systems. The Tau haven't actually tested themselves against a real enemy, everything they've fought has been catered to be a diluted, watered down version in the fluff. Be it either a tiny Tyranid Hive Fleet that reproduces painfully slow, a scattering of Ork WHAAGHS! not nearly as lethal as anything the Imperium has faced, a Necron invasion they were saved from by the Ultramarines, and an Imperium camping trip of just a couple IG regiments and Space Marine companies compared to the thousands of regiments deployed on say, Armageddon.

Also, the loss of a single Forge World is by no means a crippling loss for the Imperium. No Forge World holds a monopoly on titan, land raider, etc production like you propose, and the Tau are by no means are going to be some glorious savior when they are simply one of a million minor factions in 40k that don't have armies. The only empire in 40k capable of "saving" the Imperium (although such seems unlikely. 40k is probably stuck in eternal war for the rest of time due to in-universe reasons like the Chaos Gods. Konrad Curze never saw an end to the eternal war.) is the Eldar due to their knowledge of Chaos and mastery of the warp.

I agree with the meat of your statement (and unless the imperum is broken, the tau will never rise to be a galaxy-wide power), but I have a few quips..

 Wyzilla wrote:

OK, now another question. Do you even war? You could have handed guardsmen bolters and it would have never amounted to anything on Cadia. Are you implying that bolters are supperior to pulse rifles/carbines?
Tau tech is actually inferior to most of the Imperium's due to their reliance on railguns, which while powerful, are downright horrible to actually hit something far away. What do these two statments have to do with one another? And railguns are extremely accurate.

Railguns are cool toys but are only good for penetrating feasible things. They don't replace artillery or mortars... which the Tau seem to have stupidly done. Tau replace artillery with bombing runs. And they fight in a very different style to the type of military you are describing.

Most of their tech is more gimmicky than the space marines and a whole galactic empire cannot suddenly start producing tau vehicles off the bat, it'd require an industrial overhaul that would take over a millennia of completely scrapping every single forge world in the entire Imperium to switch over to Tau tech. How is their tech at all gimmicky?

The Tau haven't actually tested themselves against a real enemy, everything they've fought has been catered to be a diluted, watered down version in the fluff. Be it either a tiny Tyranid Hive Fleet that reproduces painfully slow, a scattering of Ork WHAAGHS! not nearly as lethal as anything the Imperium has faced, a Necron invasion they were saved from by the Ultramarines, and an Imperium camping trip of just a couple IG regiments and Space Marine companies compared to the thousands of regiments deployed on say, Armageddon. If they faced an enemy the same size the imperium faces they would be crushed because they are tiny. Compairing their military to the relitve size of the eney, they have faced enemies of the same level.

Also: EmpNortonII, the tau are not as good as you seem to think, they are powerful for their size, but have not reached the point where they can really survive the galaxy.


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Here is a good scale to show how small the tau empire is (although it is a very dense area).

TiamatRoar wrote:
The Tau being engineered by the Eldar has a lot of stuff backing it up. Most of this stuff comes from Xenology though, so there's always the chance that GW doesn't remember its existance. It's notable that Eldrad has a quote regarding the Tau which, while EXTREMELY friendly, implies he's NOT aware of any greater existance of them.

So, if Xenology is correct and the Eldar DID engineer the Tau for some greater purpose, it might have been forgotten about them or maybe it was done by some minor craft world in secret and even Eldrad didn't know about it. Or... some other possiblitiy.

Basically, Xenology heavily implies the Eldar engineered them for something, but Eldard's quote implies that while he has a subconscious love for them, he doesn't have any conscious knowledge of them in an Eldar plan.

Maybe in an attempt to keep the Tau a secret from Chaos, the Eldar set things up so that they engineered the Tau's advance but wiped their own memories about it. That would explain why Eldrad has fond feelings for them (implied in Eldard's quote to have some ulterior reason for existing) despite not having any knowledge of them in an Eldar plan.

Or maybe it's because the Craftworld Eldar had nothing to do with it? My money is that it lays solely on the hands of the Harlequins. As far as we know, their are two ways to get through a Warp Storm safely, one is to be a Daemon and thrive in the Warp and the other is to not enter the Warp all together, E.G use the Webway. On the other hand if their was a Webway gate on T'au they would have been raided by the Dark Eldar ages ago, this leads me to believe it is a small webway gate and that others don't know, while the Harlequins know all the secrets of the webway. This is supported by two further facts, the Bug Queen's empire was half a galaxy away from the Tau and when the Inquisitor was rambling about ''It all makes sense'' he must of been referencing the Webway as a way of fast travel. The second supporting evidence is in the novel ''Fire Warrior'' it describes Tall, brightly garbed creatures with fluted limbs dancing in the mist of the mountains, i see this as an obvious reference to Harlequins.

What the Harlequins have planned however is beyond me, but bare in mind the God of the Harlequins IS the God of trolling, so maybe he made them to just to annoy the Imperium?

C'tan are Necrons. Sure, it's a different soul inside the metal, but they're still mechanical shells holding organic intelligences under the command of the silent king.

Saying "C'tan won the war in heaven, not Necrons" is like saying "Space Marines defeated the Orks, not the Imperium".

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
The Tau being engineered by the Eldar has a lot of stuff backing it up. Most of this stuff comes from Xenology though, so there's always the chance that GW doesn't remember its existance. It's notable that Eldrad has a quote regarding the Tau which, while EXTREMELY friendly, implies he's NOT aware of any greater existance of them.

So, if Xenology is correct and the Eldar DID engineer the Tau for some greater purpose, it might have been forgotten about them or maybe it was done by some minor craft world in secret and even Eldrad didn't know about it. Or... some other possiblitiy.

Basically, Xenology heavily implies the Eldar engineered them for something, but Eldard's quote implies that while he has a subconscious love for them, he doesn't have any conscious knowledge of them in an Eldar plan.

Maybe in an attempt to keep the Tau a secret from Chaos, the Eldar set things up so that they engineered the Tau's advance but wiped their own memories about it. That would explain why Eldrad has fond feelings for them (implied in Eldard's quote to have some ulterior reason for existing) despite not having any knowledge of them in an Eldar plan.

Or maybe it's because the Craftworld Eldar had nothing to do with it? My money is that it lays solely on the hands of the Harlequins. As far as we know, their are two ways to get through a Warp Storm safely, one is to be a Daemon and thrive in the Warp and the other is to not enter the Warp all together, E.G use the Webway. On the other hand if their was a Webway gate on T'au they would have been raided by the Dark Eldar ages ago, this leads me to believe it is a small webway gate and that others don't know, while the Harlequins know all the secrets of the webway. This is supported by two further facts, the Bug Queen's empire was half a galaxy away from the Tau and when the Inquisitor was rambling about ''It all makes sense'' he must of been referencing the Webway as a way of fast travel. The second supporting evidence is in the novel ''Fire Warrior'' it describes Tall, brightly garbed creatures with fluted limbs dancing in the mist of the mountains, i see this as an obvious reference to Harlequins.

What the Harlequins have planned however is beyond me, but bare in mind the God of the Harlequins IS the God of trolling, so maybe he made them to just to annoy the Imperium?

And, if anything, tats the best reason for ta to exist .

I think they are just the xenos version of the imperial guard....essentially they have the similiar evolutionary paths...started primitive then become technological...from the way i read it they basically are trying to bring the galaxy under their control or beliefs(same as the imperium just instead of a corpse god they believe in an ideal)

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:


Or maybe it's because the Craftworld Eldar had nothing to do with it? My money is that it lays solely on the hands of the Harlequins. As far as we know, their are two ways to get through a Warp Storm safely, one is to be a Daemon and thrive in the Warp and the other is to not enter the Warp all together, E.G use the Webway. On the other hand if their was a Webway gate on T'au they would have been raided by the Dark Eldar ages ago, this leads me to believe it is a small webway gate and that others don't know, while the Harlequins know all the secrets of the webway. This is supported by two further facts, the Bug Queen's empire was half a galaxy away from the Tau and when the Inquisitor was rambling about ''It all makes sense'' he must of been referencing the Webway as a way of fast travel. The second supporting evidence is in the novel ''Fire Warrior'' it describes Tall, brightly garbed creatures with fluted limbs dancing in the mist of the mountains, i see this as an obvious reference to Harlequins.

What the Harlequins have planned however is beyond me, but bare in mind the God of the Harlequins IS the God of trolling, so maybe he made them to just to annoy the Imperium?

Hmm, that DOES make a lot more sense then. Looking at all the evidence (Xenology showing the Eldar had a hand in it, Uldrad's quote showing the CWE weren't aware of it yet subconsciously feel something about it, and the brightly garbed creatures), it all does seem to point to the Harlequins.

As for what they have planned... well, Caegorach is VERY anti-chaos and Tau are very resistant to Chaos. They're kinda in a silly spot to do anything against Chaos though (IE, across the galaxy in a very not-chaotic sector). Maybe the're a last resort if Chaos destroys everything else, only to finally arrive at the Tau doorstep and be stopped or something.

Taffy17 wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:

The Imperium may have some more advanced technology than Tau however the Tau are more willing to embrace it in every walk of life as they don't believe in machine spirits and haven't experienced a dark age of technology or whatever yet.

Can we get back on topic please?

Well... did you like any of the theories we have?

It appeared to have descended into a comparison of imperial, eldar and tau tech. Apologies if I'm mistaken and there was a connection to a greater purpose to the Tau which I was missing. if so please continue. Its probably down to my lack of knowledge in imperial history fluff and I would very much appreciate it if you could enlighten me on your subject.

... it was my first post, halfway through the 1st page.


There are many theories. I'll go through a few.

One thing that applies to the initial set is that the Tau barely register in the Warp. Unlike humanity and the Eldar, Tau don't provide a high level of "food" for the Chaos Gods.

The Eldar may have influenced the race so that the galaxy could become populated by a race that would starve Chaos of the emotional food it needs to survive. Likewise, Tzeentch may have done the same, for He knows that if Chaos wins, it will cease, for there will be no more emotions to feed off of.

The second Eldar theory is that the Tau are all secretly capable of being psykers (or they have been manipulating the Tau's genetic destiny to bring this about) and the Eldar are waiting for the right moment to flip the switch and create a race of psyker-warriors with excellent technology to defeat Chaos.

Likewise, Tzeentch may have done the same, to create new servants that can overpower his brothers and his other enemies.





*MY* favorite theory leaves both of those out, and has the Tau being manipulated by the last Old One. The Tau, unique among the galaxy's powers, are dynamic, intelligent, and creative. Humanity has a lifespan at least three times that of the Tau- the Eldar a thousand times greater- and neither race is capable of many of the technological feats the Tau have made in the last 6,000 years. Of all the wars and all the weapons employed against Chaos and the Necrons, only one was never fully brought to bear. for it was never truly finished. It may be that the Tau are destined to create a control mechanism for the Orks, and use them to crush the Tyranids, Chaos, the Necrons, and Imperial Cult, and to bring peace to the galaxy.

After all, somehow, the galaxy survives the 42nd Millenium, and there isn't much of a reason to believe that Humanity's already-failing defenses will succeed in the 14th Black Crusade after failing so dramatically in the 13th.



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Crimson Heretic wrote:
I think they are just the xenos version of the imperial guard....essentially they have the similiar evolutionary paths...started primitive then become technological...from the way i read it they basically are trying to bring the galaxy under their control or beliefs(same as the imperium just instead of a corpse god they believe in an ideal)

The difference between the Tau and the Imperial is that for the IoM, genocide is the FIRST resort instead of the last resort with the Tau... ya know, because the IoM is evil.

 EmpNortonII wrote:


Then where is humanity?

It's left with only the Tau Empire for hope.

Now that was a fun read! If the enemies managed to screw the Imperium, they'd just walk over tau as if there's noone there. The thing with your examples of loosing titan or bolt-weaponry production is that the sheer size of the Imperium forces decentralisation. But along with the drawbacks, it provides benefits in face of self-sustaining autonomies. If suddenly something stops bwing produced, there's plenty of other stuff left. Wars are not only won by titans or bolters. Yep, this stuff's effective, but it's only a tiny part of Imperial forces.

- Brother Captain, we're out of bolters!
- Fear not, brother! *picks up a storm shield and a thunder hammer* Change of tactics!


I'm sorry, i understand that you love Tau but in fluff the faction is depicted to be VERY far from the might of Imperium even in it's current state...or even some Ork empires when it comes to fighting capabilities. And without proper warp travel method they'll never be able to reach this levels.