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Whoa before you start going on about how the Tau are more advanced than the Eldar...

let me point out a couple things.

First, jetbikes a concept that the Tau have yet to put into practice or production even though it suits their hit and run tactics.

Second, I seem to remember Eldar created a machine... that literally creates anything you think of even other people, even worlds.

Third, Eldar have their own titans that are quite scary in fluff as well as tabletop.

Fourth, if Eldar were able to manipulate the genes of a random animal race to become the saviors of the Universe, they should have the capabilities to do it with themselves or humans.

Eldar and Necrons are the endgame of the respective technologies, of physics and warp-magic.

Also if the IoM is evil then gg, Tau already lost because they can barely hold off a small army of the IoM, but a Chaos force augmented with IoM size?. Tau were made to... just be there?? I dunno, they're weird in the sense to many factions they came out of nowhere.

Also the 13th Black Crusade apparently hasn't even started... or it did, the writers are not allowed to write about it or past it anymore

Please get back to me when the Tau have settled their civil war.

Tau have jetbikes, they're call Piranhas.

And I think I'm right in saying Eldar grow most of their stuff, I don't think you could ask them to wire a plug.

So while you could argue that Eldar have ascended to another level of technology, they're not technological as we define it with wires and circuits, etc. If you took away their psychic abilities they would be nothing as their whole society is based around it.

Tau are actually doing pretty good against the Imperium atm. Admittedly if the Imperium didn't have bigger problems and decided to focus on them they would be screwed but that's the same with every race in the galaxy short of maybe the 'nids. As for Chaos, the eye of terror is a long way away.

And the Tau aren't in a civil war. I assume your referring to Farsight who's simply colonized some uninhabited planets in his own name. Their not at war.

Piranhas are huge! They're about the same size as a Land Speeder.

And while you're right that Eldar sing most of their stuff, that is why I pointed towards Necrons as the endgame for Physics in 40k. Tau have to reach that level before we can say they will save the Universe.

Tau atm aren't really fighting IoM last I checked fluff, it's just the usual diplomacy game the Ethers are playing (Bow or be integrated forcefully) or doing propaganda/pheromone control on the level of the IoM (Damocles Crusade).

Last I checked the leadership of the Greater Good is hunting Farsight personally after removing all his honors. That sounds like a Civil War right there.

I'm pretty sure that assassination does not equal war...

Farsight isn't a civil war issue, it's more of a housecleaning issue. He's a terrorist, he doesn't have the backing of a major part of the civilian populace, which would be required for him to go from 'dissident' to 'cromwell'.

Although he seems to just be keeping to himself, no attacking the empire, other than blowing up probes sent to scan the enclaves.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
C'tan are Necrons. Sure, it's a different soul inside the metal, but they're still mechanical shells holding organic intelligences under the command of the silent king.

Saying "C'tan won the war in heaven, not Necrons" is like saying "Space Marines defeated the Orks, not the Imperium".

Open your Necron Codex to page 6-7.

I'll break it down Barney-style for anyone who doesn't want to read.

1) Necrons losing War in Heaven
2) C'tan contact Necrons and trick them into becoming robots
3) Necrons, pissed off about being robots, stab C'Tan in the back as the C'tan finish off the Old Ones
4) Necrons, weak from finishing off C'tan, get their asses handed to them by the Eldar
5) Necrons hide in holes like the cowards they are

Furyou Miko is, of course, wrong- if the C'tan shards were united, the FIRST thing the C'Tan would do is smack down the Necrons.



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 Furyou Miko wrote:
Farsight isn't a civil war issue, it's more of a housecleaning issue. He's a terrorist, he doesn't have the backing of a major part of the civilian populace, which would be required for him to go from 'dissident' to 'cromwell'.

He's not even a terrorist- he's a Tau Darwin or Gallileo.

He has dangerous ideas that piss people off, but he isn't willing to kill other Tau. He'll face justice (Gallileo) or his ideas will revolutionize Tau society (Darwin).


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Quickjager wrote:


Fourth, if Eldar were able to manipulate the genes of a random animal race to become the saviors of the Universe, they should have the capabilities to do it with themselves or humans.

... which means that the Eldar aren't capable of doing the things people IRL do with crops... because if they could have, they would have.

Was that the point you were trying to make?

Minor point... the first war the Necrons lose with the Old Ones is not the War in Heaven, we're not even given a name for that farce. That isn't started until after the Necrons have made contact with the C'Tan and are given the tools to effectively wage war against the Old Ones. This war became the War in Heaven, as it was the war that saw the most-destructive weapons unleashed.


Eldar do perform crop manipulation. Many RTs trade with them for these modified crops, as they grow better in less-fertile soil on worlds in the Imperium. In fact, this is quite a dangerous risk, as the money to be made from xenoflora is lucrative, but most RTs don't have the charter to strike these deals (and most of the Imperium doesn't trust these kinds of crops anyway, so they're sold them unknowingly).

Such an arrangement is mentioned in the first Eisenhorn novel, as they attempt to infiltrate the cabal while undercover as an Agri-concern seeking to buy xeno-engineered seeds.

I don't think the Tau should be counted out at all. Yes loosing Farsight is a minor speed bump but the third sphere expansion is going strong and while they may not be able to hold up against Space Marines Shadowsun is outmanoeuvring them and making them fight for one planet while she takes a dozen.

They've managed to hold off Ork hordes and Tyranid splinter fleets, they're outmanoeuvring the Imperium. They've had close encounters with demons and Necrons but who hasn't? I'm a supporter of the Greater Good so I'm biased but I don't think the Tau should be written off so easily.

Eldar did not win the War in Heaven- the Necrons had a ridiculous tech advantage over them, given that they possessed time travel, the celestial orrery, and weapons capable of shattering the C'tan and even killing one. Which isn't supposed to be possible as C'tan are an integral part of the universe.

(Also, it's not like the C'tan are gone, they're reforming.)

 Wyzilla wrote:
Eldar did not win the War in Heaven- the Necrons had a ridiculous tech advantage over them, given that they possessed time travel, the celestial orrery, and weapons capable of shattering the C'tan and even killing one. Which isn't supposed to be possible as C'tan are an integral part of the universe.

(Also, it's not like the C'tan are gone, they're reforming.)

I would advise you to re-read the 7th page of the 5th Ed Necron Codex, specifically the section entitled, "The Great Sleep," where it indicates that either the Necrons were losing to the Eldar or were set to lose so hard that the Necrons didn't even want to tempt the massive ass-whooping to be had at the hands of the Eldar.

And I'd advise you to stop presenting your interpretation as if it were absolute fact.

Taffy17 wrote:
I don't think the Tau should be counted out at all. Yes loosing Farsight is a minor speed bump but the third sphere expansion is going strong and while they may not be able to hold up against Space Marines Shadowsun is outmanoeuvring them and making them fight for one planet while she takes a dozen.

They've managed to hold off Ork hordes and Tyranid splinter fleets, they're outmanoeuvring the Imperium. They've had close encounters with demons and Necrons but who hasn't? I'm a supporter of the Greater Good so I'm biased but I don't think the Tau should be written off so easily.

Farsight isn't a speedbump. He's dangerous because if he succeeds without etherals....other Tau get "bad" ideas...

Outmaneuvering space marines is the typical propaganda nonsense of Tau. Read it from 2-3 POV and you will see you get 2-3 different takes on it. Tau material is all about "bright future" and "glorious leader", like well known dictatorships you don't get to the real events, just the interpretation of the ruling class.

Tau serve one purpose since 2001 :
- a new line of products without too many established designs and models.

 1hadhq wrote:
Farsight isn't a speedbump. He's dangerous because if he succeeds without etherals....other Tau get "bad" ideas...

Yeah but then an Ethereal appears at said Tau's door in the middle of the night and tells them "everything's gonna be alright" and then said tau nods happily and goes back to bed :p

There's also the fact that Farsight is wielding what is probably a Warp Weapon, which is prolonging his life... so there's all kinds of propaganda to spin around that.

The Tau aren't really nice folks, they just have good PR. Join the Tau Empire and have a complaint? You disappear into a re-education center and are never seen again. Your family is either told that you never existed, or told to ignore it and work for the Greater Good.

 1hadhq wrote:


Outmaneuvering space marines is the typical propaganda nonsense of Tau.

Not according to Imperial Armor III, on the Taros Campaign.


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 Furyou Miko wrote:
And I'd advise you to stop presenting your interpretation as if it were absolute fact.

Fact is the Necrons FLED the Eldar and hid in the ground.

There aren't many reasons you hide in the ground like a cowardly worm.

I'd love to hear about how Brave Sir Robin the Necron bravely fled the Eldar, if you have time to spin the tale. I'd love to hear *your* interpretation.

They didn't flee. They won, and the Silent King had a crisis of conscience. He put the rest of the Necrons into the Long Sleep and severed his Command Protocols before going out for a walk to clear his head.

Also, on Taros, the Marines played a very small part in the war.

 Psienesis wrote:
There's also the fact that Farsight is wielding what is probably a Warp Weapon, which is prolonging his life... so there's all kinds of propaganda to spin around that.

The Tau aren't really nice folks, they just have good PR. Join the Tau Empire and have a complaint? You disappear into a re-education center and are never seen again. Your family is either told that you never existed, or told to ignore it and work for the Greater Good.

Even if the Tau are as nasty as you want to portray them, that STILL makes them, by head, shoulders, chest, and a stomach the kindest, most understanding race in the galaxy. They're the ONLY faction for which being born something other than one race isn't a death sentence. Was your world conquered by humanity/Chaos/Eldar/orks/Tyranids/Necrons? *BLAM* No ifs, ands, or buts. Your dead, period.

You can't say, "Tau are bad by IRL standards, so they suck," and then promote ANY other faction in 40k, because they're the only faction that will so much as give you a chance to have a life... at all.

... and even then, disappearing into the night is likely Imperial propaganda.No one has disappeared Aun'shi or El'Myamoto. Heck, the Tau really haven't made much of an effort to go after Farsight.


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 Furyou Miko wrote:
They didn't flee. They won, and the Silent King had a crisis of conscience. He put the rest of the Necrons into the Long Sleep and severed his Command Protocols before going out for a walk to clear his head.

Also, on Taros, the Marines played a very small part in the war.

Why did he have a crisis of conscience?

 Psienesis wrote:
The Tau aren't really nice folks, they just have good PR. Join the Tau Empire and have a complaint? You disappear into a re-education center and are never seen again. Your family is either told that you never existed, or told to ignore it and work for the Greater Good.

Actually the second story in the Damocles anthology it gives a great insight into this point. Its from the point of view of a Gue'Vesa with a 'Vre rank I believe and he's not a complete convert but the Tau are fine with that so long as he's on their side. They don't brainwash/indoctrinate non Tau. If you read some of the stories featuring kroot in the codices they find tau odd and weird but so long as they fight for the Tau they don't care what they say.

 Psienesis wrote:
There's also the fact that Farsight is wielding what is probably a Warp Weapon, which is prolonging his life... so there's all kinds of propaganda to spin around that.

Farsight doesn't send propaganda to the Tau about himself and I don't believe the Tau know about Farsight's sword. They wouldn't even know what it does. They don't even know about daemons. The closest thing to warp and daemons they know of is what they call "mind science" which is their name for psychic powers. Farsight is the only one who know's of Daemons.

Also the Tau have seen videos of Shadowsun destroying his statue in the battledome on T'au and the Ethereals have told them that he is a traitor so they're not gonna think otherwise unless they're hugely sceptical, non conformist and don't get much exposure to the Ethereals which would be unusual for Tau.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Even if the Tau are as nasty as you want to portray them, that STILL makes them, by head, shoulders, chest, and a stomach the kindest, most understanding race in the galaxy. They're the ONLY faction for which being born something other than one race isn't a death sentence. Was your world conquered by humanity/Chaos/Eldar/orks/Tyranids/Necrons? *BLAM* No ifs, ands, or buts. Your dead, period.

You can't say, "Tau are bad by IRL standards, so they suck," and then promote ANY other faction in 40k, because they're the only faction that will so much as give you a chance to have a life... at all.

... and even then, disappearing into the night is likely Imperial propaganda.No one has disappeared Aun'shi or El'Myamoto. Heck, the Tau really haven't made much of an effort to go after Farsight.

Aun'shi serves a particular political role, and Darksun is a useful weapon. Darksun isn't a dissenter, anyway, he's just a slightly quirky Fireblade.

Also, some Necron dynasties these days actually reclaim their worlds and keep the living populace as serfs and slaves, if they bow down quickly enough.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Why did he have a crisis of conscience?

Because the War in Heaven was his idea, and the C'tan was his idea, and turning on the C'tan was his idea.

He realised that his entire life was one mistake after another and had led to the destruction of his people - not on a physical level, for they were still a powerful empire, but culturally and spiritually, as almost all of their individuality and emotion had been lost as a result of his actions.

 jreilly89 wrote:
The Tau serve the same purpose as the Orks, Eldar, and all other Xenos: to be ground under the mighty boot of the Imperium or crushed by the righteous hand of the Emperor!

yes you are right

Orkses serve the purpose of bringing fun and hilarity wherever they land their green foot.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Why did he have a crisis of conscience?

Because the War in Heaven was his idea, and the C'tan was his idea, and turning on the C'tan was his idea.

He realised that his entire life was one mistake after another and had led to the destruction of his people - not on a physical level, for they were still a powerful empire, but culturally and spiritually, as almost all of their individuality and emotion had been lost as a result of his actions.

Why did it take him 60 million years? Wouldn't 1 million years be enough? A hundred thousand? Ten thousand? After all, if certainly looks like, after all this time, the Necrons seemed to awaken just as the Eldar fell, so the 'Crons couldn't get their asses whooped by the Eldar.

Uh, because he went extra-galactic, and only turned round and came back when he ran into the Tyranids in dark space?

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Why did he have a crisis of conscience?

Because the War in Heaven was his idea, and the C'tan was his idea, and turning on the C'tan was his idea.

He realised that his entire life was one mistake after another and had led to the destruction of his people - not on a physical level, for they were still a powerful empire, but culturally and spiritually, as almost all of their individuality and emotion had been lost as a result of his actions.

Why did it take him 60 million years? Wouldn't 1 million years be enough? A hundred thousand? Ten thousand? After all, if certainly looks like, after all this time, the Necrons seemed to awaken just as the Eldar fell, so the 'Crons couldn't get their asses whooped by the Eldar.

The Eldar were fighting the Necrons sixty million years ago, during the War in Heaven (this is when the Old Ones created them and the Krork)... not anywhere near the current era (though Iyanden has been kicking the Necrons' asses for 60 million years... they never stopped.)

The War in Heaven lasted thousands of years. I'd hazard to guess that more things died than have ever been alive since then. The entire face of the galaxy was changed. And, yes, sixty million years is a long time, but when he left the galaxy, he wasn't in a hurry. He might have been slow-boating it... though even at relative speeds, the universe is really, really big. Then he ran into the Tyranids (who slow-boat it between galaxies), turned around and flew back.

The Silent King ordered the Necrons to reawaken 60 million years after they entered the slumber after the Eldar Empire fell.

Because they can read the future in the stars.

Apparently, pretty damn precisely.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
The Silent King ordered the Necrons to reawaken 60 million years after they entered the slumber after the Eldar Empire fell.

... and why did they wait until, specifically, AFTER the Eldar empire fell?


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 Furyou Miko wrote:
Uh, because he went extra-galactic, and only turned round and came back when he ran into the Tyranids in dark space?

He set the timer before the Necrons went to sleep. He couldn't have known he'd find the Tyranids when he did (otherwise, he wouldn't have severed the command protocals and would be fighting the 'Nids now, instead of talking 'Crons into fighting them).

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Even if the Tau are as nasty as you want to portray them, that STILL makes them, by head, shoulders, chest, and a stomach the kindest, most understanding race in the galaxy. They're the ONLY faction for which being born something other than one race isn't a death sentence. Was your world conquered by humanity/Chaos/Eldar/orks/Tyranids/Necrons? *BLAM* No ifs, ands, or buts. Your dead, period.

Orks are quite happy to use local populations as slave labor. They've also entered into treaties with many factions (guns in exchange for getting put lower on the Orks hits list).

You can't say, "Tau are bad by IRL standards, so they suck," and then promote ANY other faction in 40k, because they're the only faction that will so much as give you a chance to have a life... at all.

Some people value honesty over gentleness.

And dakka over philosophy.

 Scrabb wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

]You can't say, "Tau are bad by IRL standards, so they suck," and then promote ANY other faction in 40k, because they're the only faction that will so much as give you a chance to have a life... at all.

Some people value honesty over gentleness.

And dakka over philosophy.

... and which faction do you think is more honest than the Tau? The Imperium, which invented nonsense rites and superstition to pair with all technology so no one ever thinks to invent anything? Which invented a religion to worship a dying atheist? If you are an Imperial, literally every bit of information you are fed by the Imperium is one big crock of bs.

Perhaps the Dark Eldar, who are more than happy to infiltrate a society so they can carry it off as slaves to be raped to death?

Perhaps the Eldar, who routinely manipulate other races (mostly Imperials, though) into doing their bidding?

Tzeentch, the father of schemes, the Changer of Ways?

I suppose that Orks and Tyranids are honest, in the way that a cow is honest... but in truth, the Tau are pretty honest by 40k standards- they promote a Greater Good in the galaxy, one of peace involving all races with are capable of co-existing in peace doing so.

... and the Tau have some good dakka- especially at night, since its the only faction to master night vision technology.

Once again your ignorance astounds me.

The AdMech invented their religion to preserve technology, not destroy it!