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2014/08/29 13:42:13
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Poly:
I don't think you can take a command squad with a MotF.
Remember that you can take one Legacy of Glory for every 1000 points, so you need exactly 2000 points!
2014/08/29 13:49:50
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Ahh good point. I missed that since I never take a MotF. Tbf taking an unupgraded libby would save 55pts for another unupgraded scout squad - may not be able to repair the fellblade as easily, but it'd still have its 5+ IWND and 4+ cover...
And not to worry - I find the SM dex by far the easiest to hit an exact amout of points with. With snipers, camo cloaks, melta bombs etc, plus everything else apart from hb scouts being multiples of five, its a lot easier to get 2k on the dot compared to say, the cron dex.
2014/08/29 14:13:08
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
So why the love for the fellblade? It's always seemed overpriced to me for what it does.
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/29 14:27:24
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Talking about the ignores cover on blasts version:
I don't know the exact price - I can only go off what I've read elsewhere until IA2 arrives at my door. However a tl 7" st8 ap3 ignores cover blast is excellent, with the ordinance rule on top of that it means you are at least glancing av10 97.2% of the time av11 88.9% of the time, av12 75% of the time and av13 55.6% of the time. Imagine how many vehicles you can get under that template! And skimmers can't do anything about it! And that's not even considering the anti-infantry potential.
On top of that it has an ignores cover demolisher cannon (huge) and 4 tl lascannon shots.
On a 14/13/12 12hp base, with ceremite, which is a massive deal for LoW - as we all know melta is their bane.
It's a giant fire magnet that is more durable than equivalent LoW due to ceremite and has a good chance of taking away fire power of less durable units.
That's what I see looking at the reviews anyway - I can't actually contribute any experience with it to the discussion.
Maybe I just judge firepower these days at how good it is at taking out serpents lol.
2014/08/29 14:45:11
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Ok, seems fair enough. How would you guys rate the Typhon?
350pts and comes stock with a 7" S10 AP1 ignores cover blast?
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/29 14:52:47
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
For 350pts? That's insane! I read about that one but in the reviews it didn't actually hint at the points for it anywhere. That is incredibly good for its points. Thats the one that has a 24" range when moving and 48" when stationary right? It can buy ceremite as well I assume?
2014/08/29 15:00:49
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Poly Ranger wrote: For 350pts? That's insane! I read about that one but in the reviews it didn't actually hint at the points for it anywhere. That is incredibly good for its points. Thats the one that has a 24" range when moving and 48" when stationary right? It can buy ceremite as well I assume?
Correct on all counts.
It can also buy sponsons, and gets +1 on the thunderblitz table, with 6HP AV14 all around.
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/29 15:11:41
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Primary weapon, which I think does the same thing?
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/29 15:29:56
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
It does do the same thing. That makes it even more powerful. An absolute steal!
The only weapons that would worry me with this and the fellblade are lances and haywire. A deepstriking stormtek filled royal court will still decimate the two of them.
Just realised the significance of the +1 on the thunderblitz table. It will destroy a vehicle 1/3 of the time, and 2/3 of the time it will cause a st10 hit with 2d6 armour penetration (7 for armour, +1 for tank, +2 for superheavy, +d6 for kerrsmash)... just wow!
2014/08/29 15:31:40
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Poly Ranger wrote: It does do the same thing. That makes it even more powerful. An absolute steal!
The only weapons that would worry me with this and the fellblade are lances and haywire. A deepstriking stormtek filled royal court will still decimate the two of them.
Just realised the significance of the +1 on the thunderblitz table. It will destroy a vehicle 1/3 of the time, and 2/3 of the time it will cause a st10 hit with 2d6 armour penetration (7 for armour, +1 for tank, +2 for superheavy, +d6 for kerrsmash)... just wow!
Take schism of mars for haywire protection (and random tank hunter)?
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/29 15:40:34
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Fair enough. Necrons would be your main worry then? Perhaps load up on Hyperios Tarantula batteries?
On that topic - what's the point in taking the command platform for them?
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/29 18:03:15
Subject: Re:IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
ansacs wrote: Some of the vehicles that are great and why;
*Land Raider Achilles is awesome.
One of the toughest non super heavies in the game, good damage output, and holds a squad to dump out when needed. Immunity to melta truly is a great addition to AV14.
*Deimos Predator w/ plasma destroyer
It is 3 plasma cannon shots a turn without gets hot on an AV13 chasis. They are pretty great and their are a few different ways to get tank hunter and lascannons on it.
*Sicaran
Very nice tank with its Accel Autocannon and AV13 all around. It is even fairly cheap. This is an excellent tank in a number of ways. The basic incarnation is a fast vehicle that can pop skimmers very well and is effective against most light armour and even troops. You can however start putting more and more upgrades on it to make it more effective at a given job. Do you want to push forward aggressively to try getting side armour? Ceramite + AV13 around makes this a pain to kill even at short range and you can add legacies to make it even more tough (it makes some great mobile cover btw). Long range tank hunter? Lascannons + tank hunter legacy and sit back hunt. The main gun is even pretty decent against some flyers.
*Whirlwind Scorpius
This is one of the most brutal tanks available to SM. The damage output one of these can put out is just fantastic. You can even hunt special weapons out of units and it can do a real number on most vehicles.
*Storm Eagle Roc Pattern
This has a great transport capacity and very good weapons (rockets + LC + Typhoon ML). The range on one of these is not to be scoffed. BTW it has DS so DS it in a rear corner of your opponent's deployment zone and fire into rear armour often making it impossible for the opponent's flyers to turn around and shoot you.
*Fire Raptor Gunship
This is probably the most damaging of the SM flyers and will gun down infantry and FMC with impunity. The ability to engage 4 different targets at the same time and 3 of it's weapons to fire at full BS despite shaken, jink, etc. is just incredible.
*Caestus Assault Ram
This is a great vehicle when used to put the right SM unit into melee. The vehicle is very difficult to take down, has good damage output, but the biggest benefit is the ability to zoom on and ram something important and then throw a bunch of angry astartes into the poor buggers nearby. BTW I recommend storm shield equipped units as even if the flyer crashes they are likely to survive the crash and still get to charge. However this is the only way I have seen to get melee honour guard to consistently work.
*Javelin Attack Speeder
These are what speeders wish they were. Great weapon choices at decent prices, AV11, and DS. One of the great uses for this vehicle is to take CML, 2x HK missile, and MM. You DS them behind the opponent (of to the side) and shoot all four weapons (combat speed fast vehicle). These can make advancing for the opponents vehicles very dangerous and are good against Sv3+ MC as well. With the new score as you go the opponent almost always needs to expose some weak armour. The ability to engage from a distance though is the biggest benefit for AV11 skimmers.
*Contemptor Mortis Dread
This thing is incredible with kheres assault cannons. Tough and good firepower.
*Tarantula Sentry Gun
Oft overlooked as it is cheap and does relatively little damage. However it is the best way to ensure you stay on the board if you run a turn 2 reserves army. Get a couple of these on the board next to a comms relay and it becomes almost impossible to alpha strike you off the board. Upgrading them to hyperios makes them more useful but also brings the price up enough you should consider rapiers.
*Rapier battery
These are an incredible value as either quad HB or laser destroyers. They are tough and do a lot of damage for their pts. The only reason you don't hear a lot about them is that they are relatively immobile and vulnerable to CC whereas the SM army has to stay mobile and cannot afford to leave a unit to act as a body guard. They work great as turn 1 support for a turn 2 reserves army.
*Land Raider Proteus w/ Augur Web
The proteus is pretty mediocre but being able to give it scout and either a -1 to enemy reserves or reroll your own reserve rolls can be huge. Give the unit inside a beacon to DS on then DS your units off the AV14 hull. Very useful but it needs a very specific type of list (the scions flyer formation or the GK strike force are good combos for this).
*Vortimer Razorback
This is now the only way to get the old S7 autocannon razorbacks now. It is also psychic so you get an extra WC. I wouldn't buy it based on these rules though as there will almost assuredly be an errata.
*SoB Repressor
This is an excellent transport especially for dominions as they can fire from the firepoints and enjoy an AV13 transport. The HF is good and it has a nice price point.
Well those are my general thoughts of the vehicles in IA2ed2. I have used stand ins for most of them and have some of the models. On the model front pretty much all of these models are gorgeous when properly assembled but make sure you are ready for a major project if you get the larger resin vehicles as there will be significant warping and large resin vehicles tend to be a hassle to assemble. They look absolutely incredible though.
Pretty much all he said! The Typhoon should also get a mention; it is very cheap for the firepower it delivers.
It is also worth mentoning that the IH chapter tactics really start to shine with those vehicles and warmachines.
2014/08/29 18:23:50
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
The typhon with armored ceramite can be a great replacement for a knight errant. basically the same amount of points only a better firebase.
I have to give props to my favorite tank I use in almost every game... the Predator Executioner "Madame' Guillotine" that has the kelyek LoG. 3 ignores cover plasma cannons is nothing to laugh at, and it's the bain of a marine's existence.
Since Legacies can also be put on regular vehicles, why not tank hunter on a storm raven? =D
413th Lucius Exterminaton Legion- 4,000pts
Atalurnos Fleetbreaker's Akhelian Corps- 2500pts
2014/08/29 18:51:39
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Ok guys I've written a list and want your opinions on it. (I'm gonna post in army lists too).
1850pts Battleforged
Primary Detachment - Clan Raukaan CAD: HQ Master of the Forge w. the ironstone
3 servitors
Troops
5 marines in infernum pattern razorback
5 marines in infernum pattern razorback
5 marines in infernum pattern razorback
Heavy Support
Land Raider Achilles
3x Hyperios Tarantulas
Sicaran Battle Tank w. Lascannons and Schism of Mars
Lord of War
Typhon w. lascannons and ceramite
Allied Detachment - Dark Angels: HQ Librarian w. PFG
Troops
5 marines in infernum pattern razorback
1845 (I think).
Thoughts? Improvements?
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/29 19:05:27
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Tactical_Genius wrote: Fair enough. Necrons would be your main worry then? Perhaps load up on Hyperios Tarantula batteries?
On that topic - what's the point in taking the command platform for them?
You can have a battery of 3 launchers, firing heatseeker, interceptor, skyfire Krak missiles at one target or you can upgrade one launcher to a command platform and have 2 launchers being able to split fire at different targets.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tactical_Genius wrote: Ok guys I've written a list and want your opinions on it. (I'm gonna post in army lists too).
1850pts Battleforged
Primary Detachment - Clan Raukaan CAD: HQ Master of the Forge w. the ironstone
3 servitors
Troops
5 marines in infernum pattern razorback
5 marines in infernum pattern razorback
5 marines in infernum pattern razorback
Heavy Support
Land Raider Achilles
3x Hyperios Tarantulas
Sicaran Battle Tank w. Lascannons and Schism of Mars
Lord of War
Typhon w. lascannons and ceramite
Allied Detachment - Dark Angels: HQ Librarian w. PFG
Troops
5 marines in infernum pattern razorback
1845 (I think).
Thoughts? Improvements?
Just a quick note - the Hyperios battery is a Fast Attack choice
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/29 19:06:15
2014/08/29 19:14:14
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/29 20:41:55
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Looks fantastic! To make it 2k id include a culexus to prevent invisibility neutering your firepower.
Maybe take the achilles out and spend the points on even more fancy snazz. It's a lot of points for its damage output even if it is wolverine-esq indestructible.
2014/08/29 20:53:21
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Poly Ranger wrote: Looks fantastic! To make it 2k id include a culexus to prevent invisibility neutering your firepower.
Maybe take the achilles out and spend the points on even more fancy snazz. It's a lot of points for its damage output even if it is wolverine-esq indestructible.
It's mainly there to put the libby in to give the 4++ bubble to all the surrounding vehicles, and the MOTF goes in too for the ironstone bubble too.
Makes everything stupidly survivable.
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/29 21:03:23
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
I think the MoTF might be a bit overkill. I rather make some room for a Chapter Master with all the fixins. It will make your army a bit more flexible.
"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain.
2014/08/29 21:07:32
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Thud wrote: I think the MoTF might be a bit overkill. I rather make some room for a Chapter Master with all the fixins. It will make your army a bit more flexible.
He's there to keep the vehicles alive for significantly longer.
Plus a CM would not fit in anywhere, so would just die.
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/29 21:11:46
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Poly Ranger wrote: Looks fantastic! To make it 2k id include a culexus to prevent invisibility neutering your firepower.
Maybe take the achilles out and spend the points on even more fancy snazz. It's a lot of points for its damage output even if it is wolverine-esq indestructible.
It's mainly there to put the libby in to give the 4++ bubble to all the surrounding vehicles, and the MOTF goes in too for the ironstone bubble too.
Makes everything stupidly survivable.
Good thinking!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thud wrote: I think the MoTF might be a bit overkill. I rather make some room for a Chapter Master with all the fixins. It will make your army a bit more flexible.
Doesn't he need a MotF to include more than 1 relic of the armoury?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/29 21:12:31
2014/08/29 21:22:02
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Poly Ranger wrote: Doesn't he need a MotF to include more than 1 relic of the armoury?
I only have one anyway
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/29 22:04:10
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Poly Ranger wrote: Oh are the sicaran and typhon not relics? That's excellent news!
The sicaran is, but the Typhon isn't.
Hence, the Sicaran is my only Relic.
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
2014/08/30 01:23:09
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Ahhh. I assumed the achilles was one too. Have you thought about 3 Sicarans in one force? With a Typhon? What would we be talking there with all having lascannons and there being a schism of mars thrown in as well as ceremite on the Typhon, 950-1000pts? That'd be pretty solid - and a lot more dangerous than 4 land raiders I reckon...
2014/08/30 11:00:55
Subject: IA2:SE - which vehicles are actually any good?
Poly Ranger wrote: Ahhh. I assumed the achilles was one too. Have you thought about 3 Sicarans in one force? With a Typhon? What would we be talking there with all having lascannons and there being a schism of mars thrown in as well as ceremite on the Typhon, 950-1000pts? That'd be pretty solid - and a lot more dangerous than 4 land raiders I reckon...
It's certainly a lot of firepower, but I prefer the achilles to help with survivability, especially with protecting warlord.
Also that combo would be 1060pts, I think.
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.