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Ok so obviously the achilles and the contemptors (and lucius pods) are brilliant, and I can see some uses for the Spartan and the Caestus, but what about the other vehicles in the book?
Anybody have any reasons for liking/disliking any of them?

The Sicaran is a fantastic dakka boat, if you have a need for anti-infantry or anti-skimmer firepower. The Storm Eagle and its variants are also pretty nice gunships, albeit somewhat expensive. You can always dump a cheap combat squad of tactical marines or scouts into one and use it for last-turn objective snatching (and not be out a huge number of points if it goes down in flames) while you spend the rest of the game zooming around and shooting up infantry or vehicles out of cover.

Do you find there to be any issues with the Relic of the Armoury thing? Or do you only take one?

One's generally enough. Otherwise you have to find something for the MotF to do so that he isn't dead weight. Possibly put him in an Achilles with a servitor unit to make it more resilient, or else give him a bike and conversion beamer for long-ranged vehicle and MC sniping.

So you don't have any problems with redundancy then?

Best picks in there imo are the sicaran (even if it had an errata to give it 13/12/12 armour), fireraptor gunship, normal mortis dread, and the tarantula gun batteries with anti air setup.

Contemptors are too expensive for what they are, and the contemptor mortis has seen nerfs and price increases over the last 2 years, so is no longer the awesome unit it once was.

The Spartan is ok, but the other landraider variants aren't all that great. The achilles fails in its role as a transport and puts out a low damage potential for its points. It wont die easy, but it wont do all that much either. If you want damage then 3 TFC would be a better pick I think.

Relic of the armoury effects different chapters differently. DA for example have to take an Interrogator chaplain, which is bad because he is not a standard pick. SW on the other hand have to get a runepriest, who are normally included in lists anyway. Taking more than one RotA unit really depends on if you want to pay, and have a purpose, for the hq tax you have to pay.

My local DA player is making great use of both the Sicaran and Whirlwind Scorpius. They're both quite a bargain.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Best picks in there imo are the sicaran (even if it had an errata to give it 13/12/12 armour), fireraptor gunship, normal mortis dread, and the tarantula gun batteries with anti air setup.

why the normal mortis dread? what set up? They seem expensive for what they are to me

Contemptors are too expensive for what they are, and the contemptor mortis has seen nerfs and price increases over the last 2 years, so is no longer the awesome unit it once was.

I like them because the dual-kheres one can literally do anything: anti-tank, anti-infantry, and anti-air Admittedly they are less points-efficient than other units though

The Spartan is ok, but the other landraider variants aren't all that great. The achilles fails in its role as a transport and puts out a low damage potential for its points. It wont die easy, but it wont do all that much either. If you want damage then 3 TFC would be a better pick I think.

I like the achilles because it's super duper resilient, can protect warlord (and a victory point), and can kill OS units all game, as well as doing a bit of anti-tank too.

Relic of the armoury effects different chapters differently. DA for example have to take an Interrogator chaplain, which is bad because he is not a standard pick. SW on the other hand have to get a runepriest, who are normally included in lists anyway. Taking more than one RotA unit really depends on if you want to pay, and have a purpose, for the hq tax you have to pay.

Completely agree.

Some of the vehicles that are great and why;
*Land Raider Achilles is awesome.
One of the toughest non super heavies in the game, good damage output, and holds a squad to dump out when needed. Immunity to melta truly is a great addition to AV14.

*Deimos Predator w/ plasma destroyer
It is 3 plasma cannon shots a turn without gets hot on an AV13 chasis. They are pretty great and their are a few different ways to get tank hunter and lascannons on it.

*Sicaran
Very nice tank with its Accel Autocannon and AV13 all around. It is even fairly cheap. This is an excellent tank in a number of ways. The basic incarnation is a fast vehicle that can pop skimmers very well and is effective against most light armour and even troops. You can however start putting more and more upgrades on it to make it more effective at a given job. Do you want to push forward aggressively to try getting side armour? Ceramite + AV13 around makes this a pain to kill even at short range and you can add legacies to make it even more tough (it makes some great mobile cover btw). Long range tank hunter? Lascannons + tank hunter legacy and sit back hunt. The main gun is even pretty decent against some flyers.

*Whirlwind Scorpius
This is one of the most brutal tanks available to SM. The damage output one of these can put out is just fantastic. You can even hunt special weapons out of units and it can do a real number on most vehicles.

*Storm Eagle Roc Pattern
This has a great transport capacity and very good weapons (rockets + LC + Typhoon ML). The range on one of these is not to be scoffed. BTW it has DS so DS it in a rear corner of your opponent's deployment zone and fire into rear armour often making it impossible for the opponent's flyers to turn around and shoot you.

*Fire Raptor Gunship
This is probably the most damaging of the SM flyers and will gun down infantry and FMC with impunity. The ability to engage 4 different targets at the same time and 3 of it's weapons to fire at full BS despite shaken, jink, etc. is just incredible.

*Caestus Assault Ram
This is a great vehicle when used to put the right SM unit into melee. The vehicle is very difficult to take down, has good damage output, but the biggest benefit is the ability to zoom on and ram something important and then throw a bunch of angry astartes into the poor buggers nearby. BTW I recommend storm shield equipped units as even if the flyer crashes they are likely to survive the crash and still get to charge. However this is the only way I have seen to get melee honour guard to consistently work.

*Javelin Attack Speeder
These are what speeders wish they were. Great weapon choices at decent prices, AV11, and DS. One of the great uses for this vehicle is to take CML, 2x HK missile, and MM. You DS them behind the opponent (of to the side) and shoot all four weapons (combat speed fast vehicle). These can make advancing for the opponents vehicles very dangerous and are good against Sv3+ MC as well. With the new score as you go the opponent almost always needs to expose some weak armour. The ability to engage from a distance though is the biggest benefit for AV11 skimmers.

*Contemptor Mortis Dread
This thing is incredible with kheres assault cannons. Tough and good firepower.

*Tarantula Sentry Gun
Oft overlooked as it is cheap and does relatively little damage. However it is the best way to ensure you stay on the board if you run a turn 2 reserves army. Get a couple of these on the board next to a comms relay and it becomes almost impossible to alpha strike you off the board. Upgrading them to hyperios makes them more useful but also brings the price up enough you should consider rapiers.

*Rapier battery
These are an incredible value as either quad HB or laser destroyers. They are tough and do a lot of damage for their pts. The only reason you don't hear a lot about them is that they are relatively immobile and vulnerable to CC whereas the SM army has to stay mobile and cannot afford to leave a unit to act as a body guard. They work great as turn 1 support for a turn 2 reserves army.

*Land Raider Proteus w/ Augur Web
The proteus is pretty mediocre but being able to give it scout and either a -1 to enemy reserves or reroll your own reserve rolls can be huge. Give the unit inside a beacon to DS on then DS your units off the AV14 hull. Very useful but it needs a very specific type of list (the scions flyer formation or the GK strike force are good combos for this).

*Vortimer Razorback
This is now the only way to get the old S7 autocannon razorbacks now. It is also psychic so you get an extra WC. I wouldn't buy it based on these rules though as there will almost assuredly be an errata.

*SoB Repressor
This is an excellent transport especially for dominions as they can fire from the firepoints and enjoy an AV13 transport. The HF is good and it has a nice price point.

Well those are my general thoughts of the vehicles in IA2ed2. I have used stand ins for most of them and have some of the models. On the model front pretty much all of these models are gorgeous when properly assembled but make sure you are ready for a major project if you get the larger resin vehicles as there will be significant warping and large resin vehicles tend to be a hassle to assemble. They look absolutely incredible though.

Does this book have Demios pattern Predators in it? Those have pretty nice options over regular Predators. The 3-shot plasma cannon in particular is quite good for the price (since you can scoot-and-shoot with it).

 ansacs wrote:
Some of the vehicles that are great and why;
*Land Raider Achilles is awesome.
One of the toughest non super heavies in the game, good damage output, and holds a squad to dump out when needed. Immunity to melta truly is a great addition to AV14.

*Deimos Predator w/ plasma destroyer
It is 3 plasma cannon shots a turn without gets hot on an AV13 chasis. They are pretty great and their are a few different ways to get tank hunter and lascannons on it.

*Sicaran
Very nice tank with its Accel Autocannon and AV13 all around. It is even fairly cheap. This is an excellent tank in a number of ways. The basic incarnation is a fast vehicle that can pop skimmers very well and is effective against most light armour and even troops. You can however start putting more and more upgrades on it to make it more effective at a given job. Do you want to push forward aggressively to try getting side armour? Ceramite + AV13 around makes this a pain to kill even at short range and you can add legacies to make it even more tough (it makes some great mobile cover btw). Long range tank hunter? Lascannons + tank hunter legacy and sit back hunt. The main gun is even pretty decent against some flyers.

*Whirlwind Scorpius
This is one of the most brutal tanks available to SM. The damage output one of these can put out is just fantastic. You can even hunt special weapons out of units and it can do a real number on most vehicles.

*Storm Eagle Roc Pattern
This has a great transport capacity and very good weapons (rockets + LC + Typhoon ML). The range on one of these is not to be scoffed. BTW it has DS so DS it in a rear corner of your opponent's deployment zone and fire into rear armour often making it impossible for the opponent's flyers to turn around and shoot you.

*Fire Raptor Gunship
This is probably the most damaging of the SM flyers and will gun down infantry and FMC with impunity. The ability to engage 4 different targets at the same time and 3 of it's weapons to fire at full BS despite shaken, jink, etc. is just incredible.

*Caestus Assault Ram
This is a great vehicle when used to put the right SM unit into melee. The vehicle is very difficult to take down, has good damage output, but the biggest benefit is the ability to zoom on and ram something important and then throw a bunch of angry astartes into the poor buggers nearby. BTW I recommend storm shield equipped units as even if the flyer crashes they are likely to survive the crash and still get to charge. However this is the only way I have seen to get melee honour guard to consistently work.

*Javelin Attack Speeder
These are what speeders wish they were. Great weapon choices at decent prices, AV11, and DS. One of the great uses for this vehicle is to take CML, 2x HK missile, and MM. You DS them behind the opponent (of to the side) and shoot all four weapons (combat speed fast vehicle). These can make advancing for the opponents vehicles very dangerous and are good against Sv3+ MC as well. With the new score as you go the opponent almost always needs to expose some weak armour. The ability to engage from a distance though is the biggest benefit for AV11 skimmers.

*Contemptor Mortis Dread
This thing is incredible with kheres assault cannons. Tough and good firepower.

*Tarantula Sentry Gun
Oft overlooked as it is cheap and does relatively little damage. However it is the best way to ensure you stay on the board if you run a turn 2 reserves army. Get a couple of these on the board next to a comms relay and it becomes almost impossible to alpha strike you off the board. Upgrading them to hyperios makes them more useful but also brings the price up enough you should consider rapiers.

*Rapier battery
These are an incredible value as either quad HB or laser destroyers. They are tough and do a lot of damage for their pts. The only reason you don't hear a lot about them is that they are relatively immobile and vulnerable to CC whereas the SM army has to stay mobile and cannot afford to leave a unit to act as a body guard. They work great as turn 1 support for a turn 2 reserves army.

*Land Raider Proteus w/ Augur Web
The proteus is pretty mediocre but being able to give it scout and either a -1 to enemy reserves or reroll your own reserve rolls can be huge. Give the unit inside a beacon to DS on then DS your units off the AV14 hull. Very useful but it needs a very specific type of list (the scions flyer formation or the GK strike force are good combos for this).

*Vortimer Razorback
This is now the only way to get the old S7 autocannon razorbacks now. It is also psychic so you get an extra WC. I wouldn't buy it based on these rules though as there will almost assuredly be an errata.

*SoB Repressor
This is an excellent transport especially for dominions as they can fire from the firepoints and enjoy an AV13 transport. The HF is good and it has a nice price point.

Well those are my general thoughts of the vehicles in IA2ed2. I have used stand ins for most of them and have some of the models. On the model front pretty much all of these models are gorgeous when properly assembled but make sure you are ready for a major project if you get the larger resin vehicles as there will be significant warping and large resin vehicles tend to be a hassle to assemble. They look absolutely incredible though.

Awesome, thanks for the feedback.
What is this "tank hunter legacy" you mention?

The legacies of glory section of IA2ed2 has Battle of Sarosh (Skyfire, Interceptor, Tank Hunter on one weapon) or Schism of Mars (Tank Hunter, etc.) That is an often overlooked section of rules that has a lot of cool stuff in it.

 ansacs wrote:
The legacies of glory section of IA2ed2 has Battle of Sarosh (Skyfire, Interceptor, Tank Hunter on one weapon) or Schism of Mars (Tank Hunter, etc.) That is an often overlooked section of rules that has a lot of cool stuff in it.

Would it be allowed in any game where FW units are allowed, do you think, or is it a special permission jobby?


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Ok so I just read them...
Wow...
Just wow...

Fire raptor, sicaran and Typhon heavy siege tank.

Probably the 3 best vehicles marines have.

My favourite at the very least!

I use the sicaren every game. Give it sponsor HBs and ceramite and for 176pts you have one he'll of a dakka wagon. Also live the Cerberus. It's great at killing big nastiness and one you give it ceramite and las cannons it's an amazing superheavy for 415pts

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Would it be allowed in any game where FW units are allowed, do you think, or is it a special permission jobby?

Ok so I just read them...
Wow...
Just wow...

Well strictly speaking everything and anything requires opponent's permission. I would definitely inform the opponent before you surprise them but as far as I see there is no special permissions required beyond normal.

There is a wide variety of interesting legacies. They all seem fairly priced as well.

 ansacs wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Would it be allowed in any game where FW units are allowed, do you think, or is it a special permission jobby?

Ok so I just read them...
Wow...
Just wow...

Well strictly speaking everything and anything requires opponent's permission. I would definitely inform the opponent before you surprise them but as far as I see there is no special permissions required beyond normal.

There is a wide variety of interesting legacies. They all seem fairly priced as well.

I'm just thinking tank hunter (and other bonuses, including a 50% chance to ignore haywire) for 25 points is amazing :O

How's the Spartan Assault Tank?

 TheCustomLime wrote:
How's the Spartan Assault Tank?

I'm thinking the spartan, with schism of mars thing, and ceramite for 340pts, is pretty damn good
Fill it with an assault unit of some description, while blasting away with 4 twin-linked tankhunting lascannons?

I really like the Fellblade, with its S8 AP3 Massive blast for clearing infantry or the S9 AP2 Armorbane Blast, its good at both anti-infantry and anti-tank. Not to mention 2 quad lascannon sponsons.

 ace101 wrote:
I really like the Fellblade, with its S8 AP3 Massive blast for clearing infantry or the S9 AP2 Armorbane Blast, its good at both anti-infantry and anti-tank. Not to mention 2 quad lascannon sponsons.

Add Battle of Keylek and job's a good 'un.

My two favorites are the Sicaran and the Spartan.

I field my Sicaran with lascannons. Between those, the hull heavy bolter, and the turret autocannons, you can hunt down pretty much anything you want (and don't forget that it is a fast vehicle). Also, as a reminder, it is NOT armor 13 all around. That was a typo, and the armor is 13/12/12.

The Spartan is fun for delivering huge squads of terminators. If your opponents already have problems dealing with Land Raiders, they'll have problems with the Spartan (and doesn't cost that much more than a Land Raider).

I love the Sicaran, just because it's a Fast Tank and as a Blood Angel-player I prefer my tanks to be fast.

The best page from that entire book would be the part that allows my Land Raiders to Deep Strike without scattering.
It doesn't stop my Codex from sucking, I'm probably not going to get a 50% win-rate.. But at least I am having a gigantic amount of fun!

Kangodo wrote:
I love the Sicaran, just because it's a Fast Tank and as a Blood Angel-player I prefer my tanks to be fast.

The best page from that entire book would be the part that allows my Land Raiders to Deep Strike without scattering.
It doesn't stop my Codex from sucking, I'm probably not going to get a 50% win-rate.. But at least I am having a gigantic amount of fun!

It doesnt suck as bad as most people think, but im of the same mindset. I feel like running it alongside some baal preds would be a blast

It's payday today and you guys are really tempting me with a £50 investment...


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£6 to post a PLUCKING book that I'd already be paying £50 for?!? WTF forgeworld! WTabsoluteF???




Still getting it...


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Oh and if you buy 2 books its £12... as though it would cost them that much more to post 2!


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I've ordered it then spent a couple of hours looking at discussions/reviews on various units inside it.
Let me get this straight:
The sicarans main gun has 6 twinlinked st7 rending shots which ignore jink and with the schism of mars can also have tank hunter? It can then be further decked out with 2 lascannons which will also have tank hunter, and just happens to have a hb too (which again will also have tank hunter), on an av13/12/12 fast vehicle with 3hp. Also having extra armour included and a 4+ save against haywire.
...
For about 200pts?

Eh?

Don't forget the additional BS against Chaos Marines!
And it's a fast tank.

That's amazing! It is THE answer to serp spam and should reliably be downing one a turn even with its shields up!

So (I only know the roundabout points here so may be a bit off) you could have in a battle forged list at 2000pts:

Iron Hands clann raukaan.
MotF with Iron stone (sitting behind a fellblade)

Command squad with 5 melta and pod (to help against opponents LoW)

20ish scouts with snipers and camo-cloaks (for heavy infiltrated scoring)

Culexus (to stop invisibility shinanigans and other psychic nasties)

Imperial knight paladin (to charge at MCs/tanks whilst laying down to pie plates)

Fellblade with ceremite, sponsoon quad lascannons and battle of Keylek (for ignores cover 7" st8 ap3 ordinance and 5" st10 ap1 blasts, quad lascannons for AT/AA/Anti-MC/Anti-teq)

Sicaran with quad lascannons and schism of mars (for anti-everything)

ADL (for the tanks to have a 4+ cover)

For about 2000pts?

And the OS scouts will usually be getting a 2+ gtg save with a 6+ fnp, whilst both tanks and drop pod have a 5+ IWND, being boosted to a 4+ due to ironstone, plus MotF repair roll.

That's mental! How could that even be countered? 6 wraithknights maybe? 6+ flyers? I thought i'd overestimated the points but I can't have got those points right...

My two favorite vehicles so far are the Leman Russ Vanquisher and Hammerhead Gunship.

The Hammerhead is highly mobile and can fit and sit on any terrain. It has a BFG that has a high chance of penetrating its targets and a huge chance of then inflicting critical damage. Furthermore, it can jink for a 3+ save due to disruption pods and have its ballistics skill restored to better than original by markerlights.

The Vanquisher loses mobility as a trade off for having ludicrous front and side armor, and a bucket of guns. The main cannon while much less likely to inflict critical damage than a Railgun is more likely to Penetrate and Glance. A hull mounted Lascannon can be taken to add redundancy to the tank hunter and give it the potential to scrape 2 hull points a turn. I choose multimeltas as my sponsons as they can instant death t4 models and destroy vehicles that get too close. If something gets within move distance you can also ram them for a nasty hit, not that I would recommend committing a tank with four antitank weapons to a ram.

To upgrade to 3k you could get 1 more hq, make it double detachment so you can get guard as allies.

Say:

MotF (again)

Sicaran with monster hunter and quad lascannons (these look so goooood!)

Pask punisher with lascannon and multimeltas
Vanquisher with lascannon

Vet squad with autocannon

Vet squad with autocannon

Avenger bolt fighter with autocannons or 3 wyverns...


Ahhhhhh I can't wait for it to arrive!!!

The Hyperios Tarantula battery is always worth a look. Upgraded, you get a command dish and 2 launchers firing interceptor, skyfire, heat seeker, Krak missiles at fliers and skimmers. Not a bad fast attack unit for slighty over 100pts.