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WayneTheGame wrote:

 Las wrote:
Absolutely yes. 40k is in my opinion best when played with your sort of attitude. The trick is finding people who match your take on the game.

I can't agree with this. Even if you find people who match a fun take on the game, there's such a vast disparity in balance/playability between fun forces that it's easy for the OP to like an army that is ultimately useless and for an opponent to have a fluffy/fun army that happens to be on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I agree with you. We had a friend who started end of 6th. Picked GK, got beaten up bad. It wasn't just that he couldn't win, his army wasn't able to play 6th edition .And he wanted to play GK , not henchman spam. 7th came and it got even worse for him. After 5 months of playing the new GK codex came out, and to play in 7th he would need to buy the codex, the supplement and sm codex for grav star and the SW codex for the drop pods. What is more important he could only play against 3 of us, becuase his list would be unbound and no one here accepts unbound lists. The other option would be to on top of the 5 books to buy 3 box of GK terminators. He quit and couldn't even sell his army, to get at least some money back.
Right now he quit table top gaming, because playing MtG is cheaper.

It is tricky. Yes 40k can easily be played with a bunch of "fun" armies. There are 2 major issues though.

1. Finding a game with like minded people.

2. Define "Fun" from a different perspective.

So you might find out you live in a highly competitive area. Or your buddies idea of fun is winning with a tournament list. I have a college buddy, and we both have a similar idea of fun, and both have a great time when we play.

The game will be fun for you if you don't turn into one of those people that cries cheese all the time, or complains about perfectly legal units....

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The game will be fun for you if you don't turn into one of those people that cries cheese all the time, or complains about perfectly legal units....

Still beating that drum I see. I guess this beats another redundant thread.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The game will be fun for you if you don't turn into one of those people that cries cheese all the time, or complains about perfectly legal units....

The game is perfectly fun if you ignore all the problems, don't care about what other people find fun and don't care if you win. Seems legit.
Wanting a fair fight in a game shouldn't be too much to ask for.

It all depends on your community. There are definitely some min-maxers out there, but the guys I play with are awesome and I love trying to make my list better, so I encourage them to take strong lists against me. That being said, I'm sure you could find some guys who play pretty even to your skill/army power.

It's possible to do very well with a fluffy list depending on what army you're running. As mentioned, a nurgle army or any of the eldar craftworlds make fun, fluffy armies that can also compete with min/max spam lists. However, if you pick something like space wolves and run blood claws, scouts and TDA wolf guard to be fluffy, you will get tabled against more powerful lists.

In regards to the GK player, why would he have to buy space wolves codex just for fast attack pods? The rules for a drop pod are already in C:SM. You don't need to spend $50 just to say your pods are fast attack when all the rules for them are already in another codex you own. Also the supplement isn't necessary at all. I play SW very competitively and don't own the new supplement. He could've just gotten a mini rule book off ebay for $30, a GK codex and space marines codex and played the army.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
I can't believe that no one has asked this yet, but no one has asked what a fun army is for him.

what army are you going to play op and what units do you find fun?


Depending on what army you play and what you are going to do with it is pivotal to your enjoyment. You can still be fluffly and effective, it just depends on your fluff and what units you choose to use.

Well, I'm a huge fan of tzeentch, so mostly CSM and Daemons. I like a few other armies as well...Tau, mostly. and I like the look of tyranids, but less so the fluff.

I'm almost thinking I might make/build two, maybe even three 500 pointers just to keep around, pose and look pretty like old school army toys and see if I can't draft any friends in.

Again, with any other game out there this thread would have been:
"Can this be done?"
"Sure, why not?"
/Thread


There are better games out there.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Again, with any other game out there this thread would have been:
"Can this be done?"
"Sure, why not?"
/Thread


There are better games out there.

How could we forget when 2/3 of dakka wail away at that dead horse in every thread where it's remotely relevant to the OT (and some where it's not relevant at all).

Just get into the world, find a side you like. You can make any faction work on the table top. As long as you have a fun community around you and enjoy the game/fluff, you will love it. I was wondering the same thing before I started, but I am 10000% satisfied. I love 40k. I would recommend it to anyone. It is what you make it man. I personally think the rules are awesome and very "fun".

It depends on your meta. If your meta is competitive than bringing suboptimal lists will just end with you having a bad time.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Again, with any other game out there this thread would have been:
"Can this be done?"
"Sure, why not?"
/Thread


There are better games out there.

40k sucks! GW is the worst! I don't get why people go into 40k threads to lobby against 40k. I get it. You hate it. Infinity/Malifaux/Warmachine is leagues better than 40k. God forbid you let people enjoy the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Acheros wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:
I can't believe that no one has asked this yet, but no one has asked what a fun army is for him.

what army are you going to play op and what units do you find fun?


Depending on what army you play and what you are going to do with it is pivotal to your enjoyment. You can still be fluffly and effective, it just depends on your fluff and what units you choose to use.

Well, I'm a huge fan of tzeentch, so mostly CSM and Daemons. I like a few other armies as well...Tau, mostly. and I like the look of tyranids, but less so the fluff.

I'm almost thinking I might make/build two, maybe even three 500 pointers just to keep around, pose and look pretty like old school army toys and see if I can't draft any friends in.

Honestly, play who you think is coolest. Ebay makes the game way easier to get into pricewise, so having two to three 500 point armies is not unreasonable. The biggest price point will be the codices and BRB, especially because Daemons and CSM are two separate codices. Also, for most stuff, you can proxy a unique looking model for something else if you don't want to throw down more money for a unit you are hesitant on trying.

OP, since you're asking, I got to say, "no."
You'll be very frustrated unless you play with just the right people.
Most other games out there fluffy and competitive aren't mutually exclusive.
(And much cheaper to get into.)

 jreilly89 wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Again, with any other game out there this thread would have been:
"Can this be done?"
"Sure, why not?"
/Thread


There are better games out there.

40k sucks! GW is the worst! I don't get why people go into 40k threads to lobby against 40k. I get it. You hate it. Infinity/Malifaux/Warmachine is leagues better than 40k. God forbid you let people enjoy the game.

It could be worth considering that you might be reading hateful intent into posts that might not contain it.

A lot of people who are posting who have branched out after years of being subject to community pressure (Only game played) and a "sunk cost fallacy" might be posting because they can't believe they waited so long to expand their horizons and see themselves in peoples frustrated posts.

I know some of the things I thought were just part of the wargaming experience (Competitive vs casual. Pre game conversation of what is and isn't "cheesy or abusive) just aren't nearly the norm.

Anyway I'm sure my avatar and title make me an ignorant rival game evangelist but thought I'd comment.

None of my posts where intended to come off hateful in any way.
OP asked a question and I gave my honest opinion.
There are much better games for casual fun than 40k these days.

Toofast wrote:
It's possible to do very well with a fluffy list depending on what army you're running. As mentioned, a nurgle army or any of the eldar craftworlds make fun, fluffy armies that can also compete with min/max spam lists. However, if you pick something like space wolves and run blood claws, scouts and TDA wolf guard to be fluffy, you will get tabled against more powerful lists.

In regards to the GK player, why would he have to buy space wolves codex just for fast attack pods? The rules for a drop pod are already in C:SM. You don't need to spend $50 just to say your pods are fast attack when all the rules for them are already in another codex you own. Also the supplement isn't necessary at all. I play SW very competitively and don't own the new supplement. He could've just gotten a mini rule book off ebay for $30, a GK codex and space marines codex and played the army.

The reason he said that you need the SW codex is because in all other codices the Drop Pod is a dedicated transport, SW is the first to give it to the Fast Attack slot.

Also it is a bit ridiculous to say you JUST need to pay $130 for the rules to play a game that you are likely not going to enjoy if your meta doesn't fit your play style...

 jonolikespie wrote:
None of my posts where intended to come off hateful in any way.
OP asked a question and I gave my honest opinion.
There are much better games for casual fun than 40k these days.

Fair enough. I just think sometimes people go above and beyond to decry 40k in 40k threads where people seem to genuinely enjoy themselves. I completely understand the spite GW and 40k gets, but if people want to enjoy a broken game, I say let them.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

Toofast wrote:
It's possible to do very well with a fluffy list depending on what army you're running. As mentioned, a nurgle army or any of the eldar craftworlds make fun, fluffy armies that can also compete with min/max spam lists. However, if you pick something like space wolves and run blood claws, scouts and TDA wolf guard to be fluffy, you will get tabled against more powerful lists.

In regards to the GK player, why would he have to buy space wolves codex just for fast attack pods? The rules for a drop pod are already in C:SM. You don't need to spend $50 just to say your pods are fast attack when all the rules for them are already in another codex you own. Also the supplement isn't necessary at all. I play SW very competitively and don't own the new supplement. He could've just gotten a mini rule book off ebay for $30, a GK codex and space marines codex and played the army.

The reason he said that you need the SW codex is because in all other codices the Drop Pod is a dedicated transport, SW is the first to give it to the Fast Attack slot.

Also it is a bit ridiculous to say you JUST need to pay $130 for the rules to play a game that you are likely not going to enjoy if your meta doesn't fit your play style...

If he already knows that SW drop pods are fast attack, why does he need to spend $50 on a codex to tell him that drop pods are fast attack? All the other rules for a drop pod are in C:SM. Space wolves drop pods are fast attack period. Spending $50 on a codex doesn't make them fast attack. Of that's the only thing he's taking from the SW codex then it would be a complete waste of money.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Also it is a bit ridiculous to say you JUST need to pay $130 for the rules to play a game that you are likely not going to enjoy if your meta doesn't fit your play style...

Yeah this bit made me laugh. I have no idea about the SW codex stuff, seems kind of unnecessary. But to say you ONLY need to spend $130 on rules is pretty funny. That would go a long way to buying an entire army in a lot of other games.

In regards to the GK player, why would he have to buy space wolves codex just for fast attack pods? The rules for a drop pod are already in C:SM. You don't need to spend $50 just to say your pods are fast attack when all the rules for them are already in another codex you own. Also the supplement isn't necessary at all. I play SW very competitively and don't own the new supplement. He could've just gotten a mini rule book off ebay for $30, a GK codex and space marines codex and played the army.

If he already knows that SW drop pods are fast attack, why does he need to spend $50 on a codex to tell him that drop pods are fast attack? All the other rules for a drop pod are in C:SM. Space wolves drop pods are fast attack period. Spending $50 on a codex doesn't make them fast attack. Of that's the only thing he's taking from the SW codex then it would be a complete waste of money.

Because to play a unit legaly you need to own the codex for it. Doesn't matter if the rules are simiular or the same. No shop and no even will let you play without it. You think I was happy that people here were happy to buy the fortification supplement, to use aegis that hasn't changed at all ? And when I mentined the supplement I ment the assasin one as he always used a vindicar assasin.

And he can't realy play his army normaly, as purifires are no longer troops. He can play unbound, which is as accepted as FW here, or the other option play them as GK in power armor, but those got even worse then they were in the old codex.

If you want to have fun, pick an army you like and want to paint, and field the models you want to field. Power gamers, TFGs, and WAAC's will tell you all about how you're having fun wrong, but don't bother listening.

Look around on the net and Dakka for some good competitive lists if that's what you're into, if not, play how you want to.

What store won't let you use FA drop pods unless you spend $50 on the book? I would play elsewhere.

Acheros wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:
I can't believe that no one has asked this yet, but no one has asked what a fun army is for him.

what army are you going to play op and what units do you find fun?


Depending on what army you play and what you are going to do with it is pivotal to your enjoyment. You can still be fluffly and effective, it just depends on your fluff and what units you choose to use.

Well, I'm a huge fan of tzeentch, so mostly CSM and Daemons. I like a few other armies as well...Tau, mostly. and I like the look of tyranids, but less so the fluff.

I'm almost thinking I might make/build two, maybe even three 500 pointers just to keep around, pose and look pretty like old school army toys and see if I can't draft any friends in.

That is a perfect way of starting the game. Start with a few models see what works and what doesn't. You will learn some painting skills and won't feth up all of your starter models ( assuming you mess up ) Even if you end up not liking the game, or the hobbying you won't have spent a butt load on something you don't like. Its not always about the game sometimes its rewarding to simply point at something cool and to say you made that. Whether or not you play well, or you collection plays well, what matters is that you are having fun and that you got to make something cool.

I say go for it OP.

 Frankenberry wrote:
If you want to have fun, pick an army you like and want to paint, and field the models you want to field. Power gamers, TFGs, and WAAC's will tell you all about how you're having fun wrong, but don't bother listening.

Look around on the net and Dakka for some good competitive lists if that's what you're into, if not, play how you want to.

But that's exactly what you're doing. If someone finds playing to win fun, you label them as "TFG" and "WAAC." You're saying that they're having fun wrong.
Different people had different ideas of what is fun.
And fielding models you want to field works in other games, but sadly, not 40k, unless you play Tau or Eldar.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
If you want to have fun, pick an army you like and want to paint, and field the models you want to field. Power gamers, TFGs, and WAAC's will tell you all about how you're having fun wrong, but don't bother listening.

Look around on the net and Dakka for some good competitive lists if that's what you're into, if not, play how you want to.

But that's exactly what you're doing. If someone finds playing to win fun, you label them as "TFG" and "WAAC." You're saying that they're having fun wrong.
Different people had different ideas of what is fun.
And fielding models you want to field works in other games, but sadly, not 40k, unless you play Tau or Eldar.

This is correct. Is it "fun" to spend several hundred dollars on what you think is cool/fluffy and then always lose because the game isn't balanced and the units you like just happen to be on the low end of the power spectrum? Maybe if you collect first and only play a few times a year, but if you play weekly and actually want to play a game versus having pretty models in a display cabinet, you are going to get frustrated when every game you turn up with your cool fluffy army, maybe get accolades on the painting quality, and proceed to get tabled by turn 3 because the army just doesn't work in the rules, even if it does in the fluff (see: Khorne Berserkers, all Terminator army, etc.)

Who would be content with that? Spend hundreds and lose all the time because you spent money on the wrong things? I mean what the feth?

If money is not too much of a concern go for an all daemon army. I have an eldar army but I wish I had started with daemons. You can magnetize the bases to play 40k and fantasy with them (I think fantasy is more the type of game you are looking for anyways). It also doesn't really matter what you put into it, you are going to have a horde of daemons summoning more daemons. To me that sounds cool, fluffy and fun! Triple threat! Plus you can get some really big scary things which are always fun

Rx8Speed wrote:
If money is not too much of a concern go for an all daemon army. I have an eldar army but I wish I had started with daemons. You can magnetize the bases to play 40k and fantasy with them (I think fantasy is more the type of game you are looking for anyways). It also doesn't really matter what you put into it, you are going to have a horde of daemons summoning more daemons. To me that sounds cool, fluffy and fun! Triple threat! Plus you can get some really big scary things which are always fun

well, it's a little concern, I'm not looking to spend 7-800 bucks on something I end up never really playing with, but 2 or 300? eh, I can take the risk for a new hobby. Maybe even 400.

as for fantasy. I've thought about it, but fantasy stuff isn't really my thing. Except maybe the Vampire Court, and Teentchian daemons. Might look into it more later though, but I was also under the impression that WHFB not only required more minis to play(thus increasing the cost), but also isn't as popular(thus making it less likely to actually find people to play with)

Playing to lose and playing for fun can be the same thing.

If you can't win in a conventional sense, play with your own mission goal: slay the warlord/slay the troops/kill his transports. Pick your own goal for the mission and make that YOUR goal. Feth the cards. Do you like snipers? Then make your personal goal be to kill his sergeants or command squad. Decimate his leadership in this battle and the campaign will go better elsewhere (even if you'll never see it). Pop the rhino's and the rest of the troops have to walk the rest of the campaign. Imagine your goal is to cripple his capabilities and withdraw, not stand and fight here.

If your army /model availability sucks, you can always ask the other player to handicap himself. If you win, cut the handicap, if you lose, up it. It's an interesting challenge for most players. If they win "Hah! I beat him with a 500 point handicap!". If they lose "So what, he had an extra 500 points." so no ego needs to get damaged even for those who worry about those things. When I learned to play chess I played people without a queen, then without a rook/knight as I got better. It's the same thing.

The other option is to get two armies for yourself and make 2 balanced lists and see if anyone wants to play you with those. Let them pick which side each time and they'll keep you balanced.

Circling back to the original question. If you have to ask, it's not for you. If you are likely to dislike getting crushed in every game by someone who plays to win vs picking cool stuff, unless you can internalize the unconventional win described above, 40k is not for you.

40k suffers from a bit of inflation. Even if all your models are 100% evenly viable, there are so many pay to play, ambiguously worded rule supplements that if you don't know your opponent's army better than they do, they may misremember good stuff from the past and apply that to the new edition. If you love the idea of having your 2000 point white scar rhino's list all scout up in T0 with Khan, you can be prevented from doing that by the other guy taking a $20 pdf and 34 point model set of servo skulls. That release ruined the fluff armies as well as the power build biker/cent-star armies (w/attached char).

OP - do you have a group you can try out the game with? a place you could play a few games and see if the rules and the way the game works fits you?

My point is, if you enjoy the game, and enjoy the models, and enjoy all the other aspects associated with it (assembling, painting, converting, writing fluff, etc...), then it shouldn't be too hard to find someone or a group of someones to play some 40k with. Maybe this isn't true across the globe, and perhaps I am just spoiled with the groups around me, but I essentially have done the same the last few years.

I started playing back as a kid in 93 or 94, with my friends... and now all these years later, I still play with a group of my friends. Some are the same guys I have enjoyed this game with for 20 years, some are "newer" friends, but the point is I have a group I am comfortable with.

If we want a knock your teeth in, hardcore, competitive game (like when we're amping up for a tourney), we do that... if we want a more fluff driven experience, we usually cut the point values and build our armies with that in mind.

I also have several gaming stores within an hour or so drive that I can visit, and even more if I don't mind driving a little further, so there is always a game to be found, if I want one. I'm active in their communities, forums, and such... so I have formed a relationship with these clubs, where I can be comfortable enough to say whether or not I want to be super-competitive or not.

The bottom line with any miniatures game is having a group who enjoys it with you. We will all bitch and moan about the rules gaps and the way this combo works, or that new codex... but in the end we play tons of 40k because we LOVE 40k. So, applying this to whatever game you choose, the story is the same... find something you're passionate about and have a group who you are comfortable playing with.

Good Luck. I encourage you to start 40k, because I have derived 20+ years of pleasure from it and sincerely enjoy it, flaws and all... but I also understand and empathize with those who do not enjoy it, or do not want to over-look some flaws. It can be as fun as you make it.