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2014/09/26 07:59:58
Subject: If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
Orblivion wrote: Well it has been remarked a few times in the early HH novels that Guilliman was jealous of Horus for being named Warmaster.
"It was only ever going to be Horus or Guilliman. Horus always had the passion and the charisma. Guilliman was more clinical, considered. Perhaps that tipped it. So did, perhaps, the fact that Guilliman already had responsibilities. An empire, half-built. Ultramar. Administration. Populations. A culture. Guilliman had already evolved beyond the status of warlord, where Horus was still a killer of worlds and a subjugator of adversaries.Maybe Warmaster Horus is aware of this disparity, that even in his triumphant election, he has been outstripped by a brother who does not even want for the honour of Warmaster any more. Perhaps that is why Horus needs to exercise his authority and give orders to the XIII. Perhaps that is why he is conjoining them with the XVII, a Legion they have never been comfortable with."
- Know No Fear
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/26 08:00:20
2014/09/26 09:25:31
Subject: Re:If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
That is, to be fair, also just conjecture. And by an Ultramarine no less, so we can guess which side he is biased towards.
I used to think Guiliiman was the obvious other choice for Warmaster as well. In terms of competence, there is certainly no other. Having arguably done a better job than Horus in conducting the Great Crusade and being a master of logistics and all that, he's probably more suited for the job of commanding multiple armies than Horus ever was. But then I realised that the task of a Warmaster isn't to command armies, it is to command Primarchs. In the end, they are almost all capable of fulfilling the job, of course - they are all master strategists. But the Primarchs are a contentious, ambitious, proud, stubborn (and in some cases mentally unhinged) bunch, so for the Warmaster you really need someone who has charisma in abundance. That makes the top choices Horus and Sanguinius, and thus the top two Primarchs who could sway the most of their brothers to their side.
2014/09/26 09:32:40
Subject: Re:If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
Orblivion wrote: Well it has been remarked a few times in the early HH novels that Guilliman was jealous of Horus for being named Warmaster.
"It was only ever going to be Horus or Guilliman. Horus always had the passion and the charisma. Guilliman was more clinical, considered. Perhaps that tipped it. So did, perhaps, the fact that Guilliman already had responsibilities. An empire, half-built. Ultramar. Administration. Populations. A culture. Guilliman had already evolved beyond the status of warlord, where Horus was still a killer of worlds and a subjugator of adversaries.Maybe Warmaster Horus is aware of this disparity, that even in his triumphant election, he has been outstripped by a brother who does not even want for the honour of Warmaster any more. Perhaps that is why Horus needs to exercise his authority and give orders to the XIII. Perhaps that is why he is conjoining them with the XVII, a Legion they have never been comfortable with."
- Know No Fear
Abnett centered the story around "marks of Calth", which gives it a disjointed, trippy feel. This musing from Aeonid Thiel is never connected to his other actions later in the novel. Or maybe Abnett wanted to expand upon it later but forgot about it.
2014/09/26 17:16:30
Subject: If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
"Why? It is as I have already said, We knew from the beginning we could not stand, But it did not matter, 'Iron Within, Iron Without'. We made them pay".
2014/09/26 17:45:02
Subject: If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
Also, when I voted, I assumed it was after Horus started the rebellion and died and then was replaced, but maybe I picked at the wrong time!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tgjensen wrote: That is, to be fair, also just conjecture. And by an Ultramarine no less, so we can guess which side he is biased towards.
I used to think Guiliiman was the obvious other choice for Warmaster as well. In terms of competence, there is certainly no other. Having arguably done a better job than Horus in conducting the Great Crusade and being a master of logistics and all that, he's probably more suited for the job of commanding multiple armies than Horus ever was. But then I realised that the task of a Warmaster isn't to command armies, it is to command Primarchs. In the end, they are almost all capable of fulfilling the job, of course - they are all master strategists. But the Primarchs are a contentious, ambitious, proud, stubborn (and in some cases mentally unhinged) bunch, so for the Warmaster you really need someone who has charisma in abundance. That makes the top choices Horus and Sanguinius, and thus the top two Primarchs who could sway the most of their brothers to their side.
I forget where, but I had though Roberto was never really considered since too many of the other Primarchs disliked him. I had thought it was Sanguinius that was considered second choice because he was loved by all his brothers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/26 17:47:16
tgjensen wrote: That is, to be fair, also just conjecture. And by an Ultramarine no less, so we can guess which side he is biased towards.
I used to think Guiliiman was the obvious other choice for Warmaster as well. In terms of competence, there is certainly no other. Having arguably done a better job than Horus in conducting the Great Crusade and being a master of logistics and all that, he's probably more suited for the job of commanding multiple armies than Horus ever was. But then I realised that the task of a Warmaster isn't to command armies, it is to command Primarchs. In the end, they are almost all capable of fulfilling the job, of course - they are all master strategists. But the Primarchs are a contentious, ambitious, proud, stubborn (and in some cases mentally unhinged) bunch, so for the Warmaster you really need someone who has charisma in abundance. That makes the top choices Horus and Sanguinius, and thus the top two Primarchs who could sway the most of their brothers to their side.
The previous may have been conjecture by an Ultramarine, but even Guilliman realizes if the Imperium needs a new figurehead, that it should be Sanguinius.
Again, like I said. Guilliman was never about personal accomplishments or glory. It's hammered in over and over, because Guilliman is "The Good Son". Whereas Russ cared about blind loyalty (he is a dog after all), Guilliman only cared about "duty" and what he saw as his obligation to the Emprah and the Imperium.
I've reasoned it's why he stepped down from being "Emperor II" after the end of the Scouring. Because he believed the Emperor never intended for the Imperium to be handed over to him or any of the Primarchs. That they were weapons of war, and that the Imperium belonged to Humanity in the absence of the Emperor. I mean, if you look at it, Guilliman was the perfect replacement for the Emperor. The idea that he didn't step up to fill his shoes after the Emperor was confined to the Golden Throne is fairly ridiculous. That's how bound Guilliman was to the idea of Duty. That's why Guilliman was never going to be a target for Chaos. This is the guy who was the most powerful individual the galaxy has ever seen other than the Emperor, and he gave it all up to lead his 1000 Space Marines and rule his now-tiny little Empire at the eastern edge of known space.
Let's reiterate that. Roboute Guilliman controlled the entire might of the Imperium's armed forces, more Space Marines than everybody else combine, and was the obvious successor to the Emperor. And he gave up all of that willingly because he felt he was duty-bound to.
What the heck is Chaos going to offer him?
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
The other surviving loyalists would never have accepted him as Emperor 2. They only deferred to him slightly during that period because he had the most marines.
I've reasoned it's why he stepped down from being "Emperor II" after the end of the Scouring. Because he believed the Emperor never intended for the Imperium to be handed over to him or any of the Primarchs. That they were weapons of war, and that the Imperium belonged to Humanity in the absence of the Emperor.
Guilliman has been portrayed as the one Primarch that did plan for they and their legions' roles in the Imperium after the Great Crusade. He envisioned them as leaders and diplomats, believing that peace would eventually be won and reasoning that the Emperor wouldn't just waste such great assets. He also agreed with the Lion in Unremembered Empire that the next Emperor should definitely be a Primarch, as you point out yourself. So what you write there isn't correct. It's more likely all of his plans got tossed in the aftermath of the Heresy, his trust in his brothers - and himself - was revised and that he realized the need to spend their strength securing and defending the split-in-half, vulnerable Imperium. So he put contingencies in place to prevent any other being ever holding as much power (12 High Lords of Terra, chapters instead of legions) and stepped down again, for the sake of the Imperium.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/26 18:52:20
2014/09/26 19:05:56
Subject: If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
He didn't say the next Emeperor should be a primarch. He said the next face of the Imperium needed to be Sanguinius.
That if they were going to rally the remaining Imperium, they needed Sanguinius to be the face of it.
Really says nothing about his long term plans for Imperium Secundus. Remember, Guilliman ended up stepping into the same role he had planned out for Sanguinius when he became a High Lord and Lord Commander of the Imperium's armed forces. So Guilliman may well have envisioned Sanguinius as the Lord Commander, and not necessarily Emperor II.
There was an "expiration date" on Guilliman's Lord Commandership. Nothing really to say there wouldn't have been one on Sanguinius's too (had he not... expired).
Remember, Guilliman's plans before the Heresy were built around the idea of there still being an Emperor. So what he had planned for the Ultramarines as administrators and diplomats was conceived with the concept that he'd still be subservient to the Emperor. Not the actual Emperor. He was never planning for an Imperium where he was the leader. Only where he was a servant. He simply was the one primarch looking ahead to how he was going to serve differently once there was less fighting to be done.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
Out of curiosity, I want to see why so many people voted the Lion versus Angron or Fulgrim. Don't get me wrong, I think the Lion being Warmaster would be downright radical, but what do people think will make him turn to Chaos?
in reading Fear to Tread- The only exploitable aspect of Sanguinius himself was his legion. The only way the gods would ever get to Sanguinius, was to get to his legion. Which would not happen.
PhillyT wrote: The other surviving loyalists would never have accepted him as Emperor 2. They only deferred to him slightly during that period because he had the most marines.
they might have done so with some hesitation and even resentment but the fact remains Gulliman defacto HAD the power
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2014/09/26 19:54:18
Subject: If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
PhillyT wrote: The other surviving loyalists would never have accepted him as Emperor 2. They only deferred to him slightly during that period because he had the most marines.
I know this is a typically fanboy thing to say given the unpopularity of the Ultramarines in some segments, but remember, when Dorn went full Rage Against the Machine, Imperial Naval commanders were willing to unilaterally open fire on him. Guilliman was Emperor 2. There's no "if".
But honestly, aside from Dorn (who eventually relented on the Codex thing), I doubt any of them would have fought it. Russ and Khan just wanted to kill people. They had no need to run the Imperium, and no interest in taking orders from a bunch of regular humans. I mean, the modern Spwolves get along so famously with the Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy. Guilliman would be doing them a favor. Doing all the heavy lifting, and staying out of their hair. Who's left? Corax? What's his opposition? Because reasons?
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
I think if he had ever really tried to exert whatever force he had assumed against other Primarchs, they would have fractured and started the second civil war.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: He didn't say the next Emeperor should be a primarch. He said the next face of the Imperium needed to be Sanguinius.
That if they were going to rally the remaining Imperium, they needed Sanguinius to be the face of it.
Really says nothing about his long term plans for Imperium Secundus.
Remember, Guilliman ended up stepping into the same role he had planned out for Sanguinius when he became a High Lord and Lord Commander of the Imperium's armed forces. So Guilliman may well have envisioned Sanguinius as the Lord Commander, and not necessarily Emperor II.
There was an "expiration date" on Guilliman's Lord Commandership. Nothing really to say there wouldn't have been one on Sanguinius's too (had he not... expired).
True enough, but Sanguinius was crowned regent. Whether that's the title of Emperor or Lord Commander seems a matter of semantics; regardless, it comes with all the authority of the Emperor before him and thus involves Guilliman giving up a good deal of autonomy in the direction of Imperium Secundus. Guilliman's plans and actions after the Heresy reflect that he did not wish any one person to wield as much power as Horus had done, ever again. That is why he stepped down after the Scouring. All the same it was necessary to assume that power in the interim, in order to secure the Imperium. However, if you intend to ensure that no one person wields that much power again, then it would be a major gamble to put someone else on the throne. What makes Sanguinius any more trustworthy than Horus?
It's conjecture of course - we only have half the story fleshed out - but my impression is that, at the point of Unremembered Empire, Guilliman has not yet come to the conclusions he does at the end of the Heresy about securing the Imperium against future revolts. In UE the Imperium can still be salvaged and the Primarchs are still the heirs to and natural rulers of it. The division of power is reflected in the splitting of the Legions, and we see in UE that Guilliman hasn't reached that conclusion yet, either.
2014/09/26 20:22:20
Subject: If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
PhillyT wrote: The other surviving loyalists would never have accepted him as Emperor 2. They only deferred to him slightly during that period because he had the most marines.
I know this is a typically fanboy thing to say given the unpopularity of the Ultramarines in some segments, but remember, when Dorn went full Rage Against the Machine, Imperial Naval commanders were willing to unilaterally open fire on him. Guilliman was Emperor 2. There's no "if".
But honestly, aside from Dorn (who eventually relented on the Codex thing), I doubt any of them would have fought it. Russ and Khan just wanted to kill people. They had no need to run the Imperium, and no interest in taking orders from a bunch of regular humans. I mean, the modern Spwolves get along so famously with the Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy. Guilliman would be doing them a favor. Doing all the heavy lifting, and staying out of their hair. Who's left? Corax? What's his opposition? Because reasons?
The post-Iron Cage storyline basically depicts Dorn losing out to Guilliman. First getting his ass handed to him by Perturabo, then getting rescued by Guilliman, then getting fired upon for not splitting his legion. Now I'm no Fist Fanboy, but I still think this was most likely written by an Ultramarines fanboy.
So we have different depictions of Guilliman, some depict him as what you believe, some are more ambiguous, like Abnett's.
The title of this thread is "If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?"
Chaos would seek to exploit some flaw in a Primarch. Some of the Primarchs, like Curze and Angron, had obvious flaws.
Let's say Guilliman had a tiny, minute crack in his character, which was later widened and exploited by Chaos. Given a man of his philosophy and talents, he would make a very interesting Chaotic Warmaster. Therefore if I were to write a story I would choose him.
2014/09/26 20:58:52
Subject: If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
PhillyT wrote: I think if he had ever really tried to exert whatever force he had assumed against other Primarchs, they would have fractured and started the second civil war.
Why?
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops
jreilly89 wrote: Out of curiosity, I want to see why so many people voted the Lion versus Angron or Fulgrim. Don't get me wrong, I think the Lion being Warmaster would be downright radical, but what do people think will make him turn to Chaos?
The Lion took so much time getting to Earth, most people think he was holding back to see who the winner was and side with them.
He certainly wasn't in a big hurry. Then again, Guilliman wasn't there, either.
Maximus Bitch wrote:
The post-Iron Cage storyline basically depicts Dorn losing out to Guilliman. First getting his ass handed to him by Perturabo, then getting rescued by Guilliman, then getting fired upon for not splitting his legion. Now I'm no Fist Fanboy, but I still think this was most likely written by an Ultramarines fanboy.
Rick Priestley, Co-creator of 40K? Pete Haines, author of Index Astartes: IF, IW, WS, and Dreadnoughts?
So we have different depictions of Guilliman, some depict him as what you believe, some are more ambiguous, like Abnett's.
Not really. Abnett's version is more or less the same as my version.
jreilly89 wrote: Out of curiosity, I want to see why so many people voted the Lion versus Angron or Fulgrim. Don't get me wrong, I think the Lion being Warmaster would be downright radical, but what do people think will make him turn to Chaos?
The Lion took so much time getting to Earth, most people think he was holding back to see who the winner was and side with them.
He certainly wasn't in a big hurry. Then again, Guilliman wasn't there, either.
Yeah, but in the original fluff, that was because Horus struck when the Ultramarines were specifically too far away from Earth to intervene. Seems kinda smart, since the Ultramarines were the biggest Legion. Much easier to deal with them after you've already destroyed 6 of the 9 loyal Legions and consolidated your gains and regrouped. Later the fluff turned to the Word Bearers being sacrificed to delay the Ultramarines. There was never any question as to why Guilliman wasn't at Earth. He wasn't there because Horus made sure he couldn't.
Who knows what lunacy we'll get in the novels though, lol. The Black Library's new version of the story is clearly off the rails.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/26 23:09:17
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote: Sanguinius because they need someone who is universally liked (like Horus, with a few exceptions) so that they could pull more primarchs to their side.
This is interesting, and I am glad you wrote something down, as I was wondering why quite a large proportion of voters polled chose Sanguinius. Personally, having read "Fear to Tread" I don't think it likely, but there are clear links to Khorne (bloodlust, rage) in the Blood Angels chapter, so I guess there are some grounds for it.
I agree with the general consensus that the Primarch had to have some "darkness" in him already, and there are clear choices when you consider that. Also, the Lion makes sense (I didn't vote for him, but might now, having thought more about it) as a good strategist and leader that people might follow. I voted Mortarion, who by that logic is very unlikely, as he is not a leader amongst the Primarchs.
But Horus didn't have "darkness" in him--he was the favored son, the most perfect version of the Emperor out of all the sons, right? So in that case...it could have been any of them, right? But to lead a rebellion? I actually think that the precondition of a fairly large amount of resentment and bitterness (Perturabo, Mortarion, Lorgar, Curze) or just insanity (Angron) amongst the Primarchs was more significant. I mean, a full half of them joined the rebellion.
The thing is, and this is my reasoning why Sanguinius is one of the TOP contenders to replace Horus if horus to die, is popularity.
All the primarchs have faults, flaws, whatevs. Horus was one of the greatest of the primarchs, in that everyone respected him, his only fault was his pride and ambition, nothing unheard of amongst the primarchs.
No one is going to follow someone who's just disgruntled, or a madman. The reason why the others joined chaos was BECAUSE they were disgruntled and bitter, it made them more susceptible to manipulation. Of course manipulation is what you'd want if you were to turn someone to chaos, but you'd need someone strong and charismatic to keep everyone else in line willingly.
The Dornian heresy gives some interesting examples of what happened if someone else was turned traitor, it really shows the links between brothers and who would side with whom in conflict.
Sanguinius is loved by all, he was "pretty" but not vain in the way Fulgrim was, he could stand against Angron in a fight, he was noble, etc. etc. Imagine if he decided that the Emperor was a big fat liar. People would follow him, more so than someone who's mysterious, callous, disgruntled.
I'm sure I've repeated myself multiply times, but yeah, those are my reasons
2014/09/27 11:02:56
Subject: If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
Lorgar shouldn't be on the list. He was already Chaos tied and not a viable choice for many reasons already explained.
If Horus wasn't available Chaos should have redirected towards the others, most charismatic/politically powerful Primarchs. Problem with this guess is that neither Sanguinius nor Guilliman, for the way their characters are depicted, would have easily accepted Chaos. But if we assume that Chaos just took one or another at will they are the perfect names in my opninion.
The problematic Primarchs like Curze , Angron etc. lack the qualities and the context to replicate what Horus did. The other loyalist ones mostly lack the charisma or the power.
2014/09/27 15:20:14
Subject: If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
jreilly89 wrote: Out of curiosity, I want to see why so many people voted the Lion versus Angron or Fulgrim. Don't get me wrong, I think the Lion being Warmaster would be downright radical, but what do people think will make him turn to Chaos?
The Lion took so much time getting to Earth, most people think he was holding back to see who the winner was and side with them.
He certainly wasn't in a big hurry. Then again, Guilliman wasn't there, either.
Not sure how canon this is, but this is off the Lexicanum.
Spoiler:
Jonson was campaigning in the Shield Worlds against the Gordian League[4a] when he received news of Horus's betrayal. The Lion knew that if Horus was to triumph in his rebellion he would eventually have to confront the Emperor at Terra, for as long as the Emperor remained safe in the confines of the Imperial Palace, Horus could never truly triumph and become the new master of mankind. The Lion decided to act in order to prevent Horus from being able to successfully assault the Imperial Palace. He led a small force to the forge world Diamat in order to secure several highly powerful siege weapons that Horus would need in order to assault Terra. Faced with superior odds, the Lion nonetheless succeeded in securing the siege weapons, and thus "performed a master stroke": rather than confronting Horus directly, he had seemingly defeated the Warmaster with only a handful of troops.[4b]
Following his victory, the Lion met with Perturabo, who, along with other Legions, was on his way to join Ferrus Manus in confronting Horus at Isstvan V. Jonson, seeing the opportunity to become the new Warmaster following Horus' seemingly inevitable defeat, traded the siege weapons to Perturabo in exchange for his support in his bid to become the new Warmaster. Tragically, Perturabo was in fact an ally of Horus, as revealed by his actions at Isstvan V.[4b] Immediately following the siege of Diamat and Perturabo acquiring the siege engines from Jonson, the Primarch of the Dark Angels returned to the Shield Worlds where the majority of his legion were operating with the intention of heading to Terra immediately (prior to the massacre at Isstvan V).
As part of Horus' campaign to divert many of the remaining loyalist legions from Terra, the Night Lords were dispatched to the Eastern Fringes, where in the Thramas Crusade they rampaged across many loyalist worlds. During the genocide, Konrad Curze would invite the Lion to a meeting on the planet Tsagualsa. There, the Night Haunter would reveal a prophecy to the Lion, concerning the future of the Dark Angels. Eventually, the talks would degrade to a fight and the Lion would leave with a slashed throat and Curze with a sword in his back.[14] The Lion would then go on to obtain a warp engine of unforeseen power, that would allow him to coordinate entire fleets in a warp jump.[12] Using this engine, he would ambush the Night Lords and, for a second time, fight his brother Primarch. The Night Lords would leave severely injured, with Curze in a comatose state. The Lion would direct a second ambush on the regrouping Night Lords. There, Curze would reawaken and board the Invincible Reason with several of his troops. The battle would end with Curze fleeing to the lower decks and any surviving Night Lords, including the First Captain Sevatar, being taken prisoner.[10] After dealing with the Night Lords, the Lion made course for Terra but arrived too late to influence the battle or prevent the Emperor from becoming interred on the Golden Throne.[11]
It seems like the Lion was trying to delay Horus, but after dealing with Perturabo and Curze, he was too late to stop him. Side note: using the term "master stroke" is a little heavy handed considering the guy he's based off
That just backs up my thoughts that sanguinius nor Johnson nor guilliman would ever have fallen to chaos. Sanguinius because he is too noble and honorable. Guilliman because he is practical and has the best for humanity in mind. Johnson because he has visions for humanity to grow and prosper. (Read descent of angels. Really brings him to a different light )
(Though In fact, IMO. If Sanguinis had followed guillimans plan and crowned himself emperor to start the 2nd empire things would have been much better off. )
raiden wrote: That just backs up my thoughts that sanguinius nor Johnson nor guilliman would ever have fallen to chaos. Sanguinius because he is too noble and honorable. Guilliman because he is practical and has the best for humanity in mind. Johnson because he has visions for humanity to grow and prosper. (Read descent of angels. Really brings him to a different light )
(Though In fact, IMO. If Sanguinis had followed guillimans plan and crowned himself emperor to start the 2nd empire things would have been much better off. )
Johnson wanting humanity to prosper just makes it easier to corrupt him. Hell it'd be out of the Lord of the Rings and what tempted Boromir.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
2014/09/27 18:50:07
Subject: If Horus had died, which Primarch would Chaos have used next?
Doubtful. Since if you look at all the other primarchs they only fell because of a vice they had. That was exploited by the chaos gods. Most really didnt give two feths about humanity either. If they could have taken Johnsen. They wouldnt have went for Luther.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/27 18:50:57
Maximus Bitch wrote: The post-Iron Cage storyline basically depicts Dorn losing out to Guilliman. First getting his ass handed to him by Perturabo, then getting rescued by Guilliman, then getting fired upon for not splitting his legion. Now I'm no Fist Fanboy, but I still think this was most likely written by an Ultramarines fanboy.
That's not the right chronology of events. The proper chronology is -> Dorn and Guilliman butt heads over the Codex Astartes -> Imperial Fist ship Terrible Angel is fired upon by Imperial Army ships -> Dorn relents to Guilliman's demands after meditating in pain glove for several days -> Dorn takes his legion and shatters its numbers in the Iron Cage -> Dorn breaks up what's left of his reduced legion into chapters.
Not really sure how most of that story is "Pro-Ultramarines". Frankly, the story puts the Imperial Fists on center stage, since it almost explicitly notes that the Fists were basically single-handedly responsible for pushing the traitor legions back into the Eye of Terror during the Scouring.
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