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Or the Imperial Fists Terminator or the Lone Custodian
I would argue against this. Marines die all the time. They were created for war. The Custodes was protecting the Emperor as was his role. If some of the less favourable of the Emperor's representations are to be believed he saw them both as merely tools to humanity and himself. But Pious was just a man. Hell, even after knowing Horus had advocated the destruction of several thousand marines and besieging Terra he thought he could be saved. Even after it resulted in the deaths of Ferrus Manus at Fulgrim's hand, the dissappearence of several others including Vulkan and Corax, and personally killed Sanguinius.
But from an actual written fluff perspective this is how it was depicted and no version of the tale has mentioned Pious by name. So, we have an Imperial Trooper, a Terminator or a Custodian.
From the original Bill King story of WD 161
Suddenly the battering stops. Through his good eye the Emperor sees a solitary Terminator has entered the room. The Marine charges towards the Warmaster, stormbolter blazing. Horus looks at him and laughs. For a moment he stands triumphant, allowing the Marine to see what he has done to his Emperor...
...The Emperor sees the trap that has been set for him. He has been restraining himself, trying not to hurt one who had been as a son to him. Now he sees that there is no trace of his trusted comrade left. He knows that he must stop this semblance of his former friend and avenge the fallen Terminator. He must strike one deadly blow. He will get no other chance.
It' s likely that Pious will replace the people mentioned as he has become a prominent character, but until then, either one is fair game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/22 13:52:43
lliu wrote: Vulcan lives, though. He is part of Trazyn the Infinite's gallery.
Thats never been confirmed the entry is really vague............and remeber Trazyn will make stuff up and create stuff to make it look (even to himself) that he has the "real" thing.
For all their power Necrons are often falling apart mentally as well as physically through the Flayer virus against which they have no defence.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I've always wondered how the imperial guardsman is meant to have boarded the ship. I know the emperor and sanguinius with their boarding force, teleport onto Horus's command ship, when he lowers the sheilds to invite them to fight. How is the imperial guardsman meant to have joined them. I always thought that you needed to be in terminator armour to teleport.
Zwan1One wrote: I've always wondered how the imperial guardsman is meant to have boarded the ship. I know the emperor and sanguinius with their boarding force, teleport onto Horus's command ship, when he lowers the sheilds to invite them to fight. How is the imperial guardsman meant to have joined them. I always thought that you needed to be in terminator armour to teleport.
No you just need to be able to fight off Daemons and currents of the warp.
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Zwan1One wrote: I've always wondered how the imperial guardsman is meant to have boarded the ship. I know the emperor and sanguinius with their boarding force, teleport onto Horus's command ship, when he lowers the sheilds to invite them to fight. How is the imperial guardsman meant to have joined them. I always thought that you needed to be in terminator armour to teleport.
In this case it will likely be via an anthame. Ollius does happen to have one at the moment.
Ok, this is where people need to be able to differentiate between what in-universe characters believe versus what might have actually happened.
The Blood Angels believe Sanguinius caused the weakness that allowed the Emperor to win against Horus. That is their belief. Nobody actually witnessed the fight and lived to tell the tale. The Blood Angels cite their visions which may suffice in the faith paradigm of the Imperium, but for readers, that is not proof because we know visions can be false, such as when Tycho had visions of himself as Sanguinius and actually killing Horus and winning (when in reality Tycho was killing an Ork). The Blood Angels may be desperate to believe their Primarch accomplished something before dying and try to give him credit for the ultimate defeat of Horus, whether or not that actually happened. However to me, having Sangunius actually accomplish anything against Horus actually detracts from his nobility and sacrifice.
Sanguinius's sacrifice was heroic because he was helpless in the face of Horus yet still chose to fight rather than turn to Chaos. That is an act of moral courage to still hold to ideals in the face of true hopelessness. Sanguinius had already shown martial courage through previous acts of valor so one more hardly means anything, whereas standing resolute in the face of true hopelessness is nobility of spirit (demonstrated through action rather than just stated by a narrator). It was Sanguinius's nobility in defeat that (among other things) bolsters the Emperor's resolve to defeat Horus. If Sangunius actually had any a glimmer of hope of accomplishing anything, it makes his sacrifice less noble because he thinks he can win. His failure then becomes more a failure of ability and misjudgement. However if Sanguinius knows he cannot win, and still does the morally right thing, then that is a greater statement about his strength of character than any feat of arms.
Sanguinius already has his moment of martial glory at the Ultimate Gate with the Bloodthirster. The confrontation with Horus is a moral test. Faced with complete and true hopelessness, how many people would have the courage to still say no? In a world filled with superheroic Primarchs doing heroic martial acts before breakfast and never seeming to face much threat of real failure, such a psychological test is more meaningful than yet another fight against an "evil villain/monster". Characters acquire depth through showing of their characters and their flaws and their strengths. For Primarchs, physical and martial strength is common. Moral strength is less so.
It is not truly hopeless if in doing so he accomplishes something. Sanguinius actually doing something to Horus takes the focus off his sacrifice and degrades him to being a 2D superhero angel against mr. super villain that OMG somehow manages to beat the odds and inflict the telling blow.
What Sanguinius accomplishes is the emotional effect his death has on the Emperor, and that spiritual and emotional level is what is more significant. Having a physical accomplishment of a chink in the armor takes the focus off of this more symbolic battle for the soul of humanity, and the refusal to submit in the face of overwhelming power.
Why is it that hard to believe that he might have died without hurting Horus significantly? That is probably more like what the in character Blood Angels want to believe, because they cannot conceive that their Primarch could actually fail so they end up justifying or making up an accomplishment to make it so his death was responsible for the Emperor's victory.
Sanguinius's death was responsible in some part for that but more because what his death made the Emperor realize about Horus, and not the literal aspect of a physical opening in Horus's armor. For a martial warrior brotherhood raised to revere their Primarch, that more transcendant sacrifice may be perhaps lost on them, leaving them with their own need to rationalize and give meaning to his death through the invention of the opening up of a chink in Horus's armor.
