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alex87 wrote:

 Sienisoturi wrote:
About the chimera, how is it different from a manticore, as they are the same base model, and having a lord ride the beast would solve the babysitting problem. Although, if the chimera is the superior option, then where can I find the rules for the chimera?

They have seperate rules and different upgrade options however, both in the WoC book. Having a lord ride a manticore is considered sub par for the same reasons all monster-riding combat lords are, the lack of a level 4 wizard. Plus your risking a lot more if your opponent has cannons.

Given the newest BRB faq gives you up to 50% of your army as lords, depending on your points limit you can have a manticore rider and a lvl 4 wizard. The manticore itself lacks protection compared to a daemon prince or Tzeentch-Lord however.

Manticore is considered terrible because it isn't all that survivable once it hits combat.

Monsters tend to land into 2 groups.
T6 with a decent save (3+ armor), or a really good save (4+ and regen), or fairly useless.
T5 monsters aren't all that hard to kill, and as a mount, giving cannons free double hits (one on rider, one on monster) sucks.

-Matt

The giant is not the worst monster in game, he isn't really all that bad.


The Slaughterbrute is really bad. Beastmen also have some craptastic stuff.

Gore chariot, people always underestimate them. With mark of nurgle they become really difficult to hit. They have killing blow on the charge with impact hits riders have halberds 3 up save and T6.

The Gorebeast Chariot is indeed awesome. But...it's a Chariot. Not a Monster.

I suppose I would motion that the Cygor and the Slaughterbrute are indeed worse than the Giant. About the same effectiveness, and then also more expensive.

Ghorgons are good at gettin' in there and killin' stuff. They're overpriced, sure, but they're still scary in combat.

Chimeras are very top-heavy. Devastating for their points, and with one huge, glaring weakness. The breath weapon is a bit expensive for what you get, but it just adds to that All-Or-Nothing lethality.

I believe that their both...what, Warbeasts? But Spawn make great chaff-intercepters to keep your actual monsters on-target, and Beasts of Nurgle are just stupid.

So...if I had to list the top Monsters (the troop-type), I think it would go something like:

1. Daemon Prince*
2. Chimera
3. Hell Cannon**
4. Ghorgon

*a character
**a Monster, but performing a function decidedly un-Monster-ish.

Slaughter Brute isn't that bad.
If you're running a daemon prince, it's WS9 S7 monsters, with T5 and 4+ armor. That gives it pretty good survivability against most units (who hit it on 5+).

I'd say the vortex beast is much worse, only because it's special effect is a bound spell, and I've got better things to do with my power dice. Without getting the spell off, it's a very expensive sub-par monster.

-Matt

Warpsolution wrote:
I suppose I would motion that the Cygor and the Slaughterbrute are indeed worse than the Giant. About the same effectiveness, and then also more expensive.

Thank you. I would also include the jabberslythe too

Fair point on the Vortex Beast, Matt. How many attacks does that thing have again?
A4 on the Slaughterbrute is just awful, though. It's way too easy for him to lose a combat to a tar pit with 4 points of static CR.

The 'slythe works okay in certain situations. His Maddening Aura or whatever it's called isn't any good against your opponent's center, but with Flying, he can pick off small units and such.
That said, he's waaay to expensive for how squishy he is.

Warpsolution wrote:
I suppose I would motion that the Cygor and the Slaughterbrute are indeed worse than the Giant. About the same effectiveness, and then also more expensive.

I'd like to point out that a Cygor is A) A stone thrower that can't blow itself up, and B) It can break your opponent's magic phase.

And a Slaughterbrute is bad. But it doesn't have to roll on an attack chart where you're hoping that you A) survive the round of attacks coming at you, and B) Have one good option.

Warpsolution wrote:
Fair point on the Vortex Beast, Matt. How many attacks does that thing have again?
A4 on the Slaughterbrute is just awful, though. It's way too easy for him to lose a combat to a tar pit with 4 points of static CR.

The 'slythe works okay in certain situations. His Maddening Aura or whatever it's called isn't any good against your opponent's center, but with Flying, he can pick off small units and such.
That said, he's waaay to expensive for how squishy he is.

Slaughter Brute has 4 S7 and 2 S5. Between that and the thunderstomp, he seems to stick around alright.

Mr. Jabber is far to situational. Ld test on all units within a 12" bubble, and take 1 wound for each point failed by. Doesn't work on Immune to Psychology units. And that's the kicker, if it worked on everyone, you'd get decent use vs undead (who have terrible leadership) and do a smattering vs daemons. Outside of that, it's of very limited use. Yeah, you might get that lucky match up against 3x chimmeras, but more often than not, you'll do nothing at all.
The Cygors aura looks nifty, but again relies on opponents failed a Ld test, and then choosing to risk casting, and then failing to cast successfully.

The Jabber and Cygor need to be cheaper, and the Jabbers aura needs to affect ItP units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vortex beast is throwing out D6 +2 attacks (all at S5). If he was stubborn, I'd like him, but far to likely to break and run.
Really a bummer, I like the model.

That's right! I forgot the 'brute got an extra two S5 attacks. That makes him...okay.
But while he is more effective than a Giant, he also costs more.

Yeah. The Vortex Beast is crap. If his thing was a shooting attack or an aura, then okay. So many cool things they could have done with that concept.

The Jabberslythe is a flying monster with an area-of-effect style attack. That's pretty cool, right there. But the fact that it doesn't work on ItP units and that it allows IP and HYG is pretty useless.

The Cygor is a stonethrower, you say? ...yeah. And it costs as much as three and a half regular ones. It's weird magic rules are unreliable and lackluster anyway, and it sucks in combat.

Cygors are utter pants in a Legion army. Compare it to the cheaper Hellcannon.

I like the Vortex Beast, but he is random in his attacks.

If the Jabberslythe rolled 3D6, like the casket of souls, it would be brilliant. In it's current state you'll end up doing 3 wounds at most.