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2014/12/05 19:03:13
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Never play Punisher, the game based on the Marvel character, then. Completely full of those. If you screw up, you kill the guy before he gives you the information you need. If you do not, you kill him afterward.
Ick Ick ick. At least in GTA V the torture was framed as a bad thing. Even Trever goes on a rant about how torture is bad.. After being the one who did it...
I found it, for your eyes .
NSFW because extreme violence:
Having actually read the punisher comics, that's nothing compared to some of the stuff he does in Punisher Max, there's a reason why many Heroes in that universe never want to be near or work with Frank because unlike most he really is a man who went so far over the edge in believing "Pay Evil Unto Evil".
They also tried putting him in Jail, he simply promised to murder all those in with him too, short of killing him he won't exactly stop that.
I heard things about punisher max, scary things.
Didn't Bullseye once try to think like Castle by
Spoiler:
kidnapping families, pretending to be their Father, and hiring assassins to kill them all to re-enact the murder of Castles' family?
He did far more then that, studied every location Frank went to and killed people at, slept in his clothes, all his safehouses, interrogated and tortured friends to discover every little detail he could, and essentially even modeled himself to look exactly like frank would have been in those situations.
He also did indeed kill a father, kidnap the wife and kids and then had them killed..He didn't really do well the first time, but he figured he had it down by the fourth family he did it too...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 19:04:19
2014/12/05 19:05:45
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Homophobia is often intrinsically tied to misogyny to begin with-- most homophobic insults are based off of applying feminine attributes to men and asserting that this is a bad thing.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/12/05 19:13:14
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Melissia wrote: I find the difference between GTA's chauvinism and that of Duke Nukem Forever (where it's a part of the main character's personality, but they tried to build it to discourage abusiveness) is pretty stark.
Well sure -- Duke Nukem is a parody.
OffT -- I wish Marvel would do an omnibus of Ennis's Punisher Max run. It makes no sense that this has not happened.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 19:15:24
Melissia wrote: I find the difference between GTA's chauvinism and that of Duke Nukem Forever (where it's a part of the main character's personality, but they tried to build it to discourage abusiveness) is pretty stark.
Well sure -- Duke Nukem is a parody.
While GTA is a power fantasy. Perhaps even the quintessential straight white male power fantasy, even.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 19:14:39
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/12/05 19:15:09
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Melissia wrote: I find the difference between GTA's chauvinism and that of Duke Nukem Forever (where it's a part of the main character's personality, but they tried to build it to discourage abusiveness) is pretty stark.
Well sure -- Duke Nukem is a parody.
Not meant to be one actually.
2014/12/05 19:16:24
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Melissia wrote: Homophobia is often intrinsically tied to misogyny to begin with-- most homophobic insults are based off of applying feminine attributes to men and asserting that this is a bad thing.
That seems kind of a stretch to think Man acting feminine is bad, there for woman is bad? (though im not saying some people dont think that)
Melissia wrote: I find the difference between GTA's chauvinism and that of Duke Nukem Forever (where it's a part of the main character's personality, but they tried to build it to discourage abusiveness) is pretty stark.
Well sure -- Duke Nukem is a parody.
While GTA is a power fantasy. Perhaps even the quintessential straight white male power fantasy, even.
As you know, I agree. You might remember I once called it a "privilege simulator." And I don't think Duke Nukem Forever is actually a power fantasy at all (and I'm not claiming that was your point just extending the contrast). It's much more in the vein of Blood Dragon, a game about a genre.
Melissia wrote: Homophobia is often intrinsically tied to misogyny to begin with-- most homophobic insults are based off of applying feminine attributes to men and asserting that this is a bad thing.
That seems kind of a stretch to think Man acting feminine is bad, there for woman is bad? (though im not saying some people dont think that)
The philosophy of macho culture's misogyny goes like this: men and masculinity is superior to women and femininity. A man acting womanly is therefor making himself less of a man, and as such, lowering his worth as a human being..
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/12/05 19:21:39
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Melissia wrote: Homophobia is often intrinsically tied to misogyny to begin with-- most homophobic insults are based off of applying feminine attributes to men and asserting that this is a bad thing.
That seems kind of a stretch to think Man acting feminine is bad, there for woman is bad? (though im not saying some people dont think that)
The philosophy of macho culture's misogyny goes like this: men and masculinity is superior to women and femininity. A man acting womanly is therefor making himself less of a man, and as such, lowering his worth as a human being..
Meh then il drop it as iv never grew up with that kinda culture.
Melissia wrote: I find the difference between GTA's chauvinism and that of Duke Nukem Forever (where it's a part of the main character's personality, but they tried to build it to discourage abusiveness) is pretty stark.
Well sure -- Duke Nukem is a parody.
While GTA is a power fantasy. Perhaps even the quintessential straight white male power fantasy, even.
As you know, I agree. You might remember I once called it a "privilege simulator." And I don't think Duke Nukem Forever is actually a power fantasy at all (and I'm not claiming that was your point just extending the contrast). It's much more in the vein of Blood Dragon, a game about a genre.
There was a interview where pitchfork talked about how the duke was meant to be like an ideal and not someone to be mocked. You want to be the duke because the duke is cool. I can't find the quote right now though, so I might be recalling it wrong.
2014/12/05 19:22:59
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Desubot wrote: That seems kind of a stretch to think Man acting feminine is bad, there for woman is bad?
I get what you mean -- that even if it were bad for a man to woman-like it would not necessarily be bad for a woman to be woman-like. The issue goes a bit deeper however because this worldview also assumes chauvinism. That is, being woman-like means being passive and objectified. That's why it is bad for man to be compared to woman in the first place, because no sane man in this way of thinking would want to be woman-like. It turns out, a lot of women don't actually want to be woman-like in that sense, either.
Melissia wrote: Homophobia is often intrinsically tied to misogyny to begin with-- most homophobic insults are based off of applying feminine attributes to men and asserting that this is a bad thing.
That seems kind of a stretch to think Man acting feminine is bad, there for woman is bad? (though im not saying some people dont think that)
The philosophy of macho culture's misogyny goes like this: men and masculinity is superior to women and femininity. A man acting womanly is therefor making himself less of a man, and as such, lowering his worth as a human being..
Meh then il drop it as iv never grew up with that kinda culture.
Where did you grow up?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 19:24:47
2014/12/05 19:24:48
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
nomotog wrote: There was a interview where pitchfork talked about how the duke was meant to be like an ideal and not someone to be mocked. You want to be the duke because the duke is cool. I can't find the quote right now though, so I might be recalling it wrong.
That doesn't really discount the idea of Duke Nukem being a parody. He's not any less cool because he is the Frankenstein monster of every wince-inducing 80s-90s action hero stereotypes. That is actually what made him cool. But it also poked fun at the straight-faced way those tropes appeared in the actual action movies of the 80s and 90s.
I'd like to see a similar parody of the GTA/CoD-era of video games. It will have to wait, of course. If it was made today, I suspect not many would get the joke.
nomotog wrote: There was a interview where pitchfork talked about how the duke was meant to be like an ideal and not someone to be mocked. You want to be the duke because the duke is cool. I can't find the quote right now though, so I might be recalling it wrong.
That doesn't really discount the idea of Duke Nukem being a parody. He's not any less cool because he is the Frankenstein monster of every wince-inducing 80s-90s action hero stereotypes. That is actually what made him cool. But it also poked fun at the straight-faced way those tropes appeared in the actual action movies of the 80s and 90s.
Dose it poke fun or dose it just do them because there is a difference.
2014/12/05 19:28:23
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Melissia wrote: Homophobia is often intrinsically tied to misogyny to begin with-- most homophobic insults are based off of applying feminine attributes to men and asserting that this is a bad thing.
That seems kind of a stretch to think Man acting feminine is bad, there for woman is bad? (though im not saying some people dont think that)
The philosophy of macho culture's misogyny goes like this: men and masculinity is superior to women and femininity. A man acting womanly is therefor making himself less of a man, and as such, lowering his worth as a human being..
Meh then il drop it as iv never grew up with that kinda culture.
Where did you grow up?
Southern California
Edit: Assuming the question will be asked. Im a Straight Male Asian (korean)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 19:29:27
nomotog wrote: Dose it poke fun or dose it just do them because there is a difference.
None of the Duke Nukem games are played straight. It's all overtly tongue in cheek. The tropes they draw on, however, are mostly po-faced in the source material.
Again, I'd love to see a similar send-up of GTA.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/05 19:31:33
nomotog wrote: Dose it poke fun or dose it just do them because there is a difference.
It pokes fun at them in a good natured way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 19:31:20
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/12/05 19:32:14
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Melissia wrote: Homophobia is often intrinsically tied to misogyny to begin with-- most homophobic insults are based off of applying feminine attributes to men and asserting that this is a bad thing.
That seems kind of a stretch to think Man acting feminine is bad, there for woman is bad? (though im not saying some people dont think that)
The philosophy of macho culture's misogyny goes like this: men and masculinity is superior to women and femininity. A man acting womanly is therefor making himself less of a man, and as such, lowering his worth as a human being..
Meh then il drop it as iv never grew up with that kinda culture.
Where did you grow up?
Southern California
Edit: Assuming the question will be asked. Im a Straight Male Asian (korean)
I grew up in northern Michigan, so ya we basically grew up worlds apart. I have been to Southern California before it's nice.
2014/12/05 19:41:10
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
It depends on which community in SoCal you're talking about, too.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/12/05 19:56:02
Subject: Re:Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: As far as I can tell, the Saint Row franchise totally qualifies for full silly immaturity, at least in the latter installments, while being very close to the mechanics of GTA.
More on this:
A dev from Saint Row 3 and 4 wrote:In contrast, on Saints Row we deliberately tried to respect the sexuality of female characters and remember our female audience
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/12/05 21:05:38
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Melissia wrote: I find the difference between GTA's chauvinism and that of Duke Nukem Forever (where it's a part of the main character's personality, but they tried to build it to discourage abusiveness) is pretty stark.
Well sure -- Duke Nukem is a parody.
Isn't GTA supposed to be somewhat humorous too, like they have a lot of products and ideas have silly names like e-cola (the game's version of coca cola), all the TV shows are parodies, some juvenile stuff like the logo for the bowling place is a pin with two bowling balls (looks like a
penis), etc.
2014/12/05 21:21:46
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Melissia wrote: I find the difference between GTA's chauvinism and that of Duke Nukem Forever (where it's a part of the main character's personality, but they tried to build it to discourage abusiveness) is pretty stark.
Well sure -- Duke Nukem is a parody.
Isn't GTA supposed to be somewhat humorous too, like they have a lot of products and ideas have silly names like e-cola (the game's version of coca cola), all the TV shows are parodies, some juvenile stuff like the logo for the bowling place is a pin with two bowling balls (looks like a
penis), etc.
GTA jokes for sure even in the midst of violence, but the violence itself is not played for a joke nor does it seem meant as a criticism or deliberation on the events. The violence itself is played straight and the targets of violence in GTA are portrayed experiencing the violence in a realistic enough way in terms of suffering. However, the framing of it is so much juvenile glorification, and the exploration of the nature of that violence is shallow to non-existent. The whole package winds up coming off feeling very uncomfortable for me and it doesn't feel like that's by design.
Like I don't mind a game where the player can beat a dude to death with a baseball bat. However, either distance that beating enough from reality I can just enjoy the release of the absurd action, or treat the violence with some level of respect. GTA really seems to do neither.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/12/05 21:25:37
2014/12/05 21:33:52
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Alex C wrote: Now, time to get back to my multitude of games that involve myriad crimes against men which people don't seem to give a feth about.
And women. Have you noticed fatalities work just as well on female characters as they do on male characters in Mortal Kombat? And how it was never a problem for anyone?
Just saying .
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/12/05 23:00:10
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Alex C wrote: Now, time to get back to my multitude of games that involve myriad crimes against men which people don't seem to give a feth about.
And women. Have you noticed fatalities work just as well on female characters as they do on male characters in Mortal Kombat? And how it was never a problem for anyone?
Just saying .
Just no. motyak
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/06 00:16:33
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2014/12/06 00:15:00
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
And that's how you get a mod to come into a thread and give it one warning. Anything else remotely like what was said will get the thread locked and further warnings issued
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
2014/12/06 01:00:45
Subject: Grand Theft Auto V: Target, Kmart pull game off shelves over sexual violence controversy (Australia)
Melissia wrote: Though that said, I certainly see why they're bothered by a game which is nothing more than a poorly written power fantasy, where the devs made the poor decision to actively include a sex scene where you graphically (if in poor quality) pork a (female, of course, can't have gay sex) hooker and then allowing violence against said hooker afterwards, even rewarding it through the hooker dropping money.
Nice misrepresentation there Anita.
You are not rewarded for assaulting hookers. Killing anyone in that game gets you money. At no point during the game are you enticed, incentivised, encouraged, directed or otherwise rewarded for committing acts of sexual violence or violence towards women in general. The entire petition is based on a lie - almost every word of the complaint is untrue, unverified, unsubstantiated or exaggerated - and Target were morons for taking it off general sale.
But enough from me. I'll let the dulcet tones of John Bain cover the rest for me:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/06 01:03:52
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