Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Spoiler:

squidhills wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

My favourite FOW list is an 82nd + British Shermans for when I'm playing Market Garden missions/scenarios, and MacArthur is one of my all time favourite Generals.

At the risk of being OT, I have a very low opinion of any American officer who decides to field cavalry against US veterans of WWI.

I agree that the man had his flaws (like most military commanders since war began) but if you were looking at him from a purely tactical point of view, then you can't help but admire his actions at Hollandia, and of course, Inchon. Military genius at work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WellSpokenMan wrote:

squidhills wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

My favourite FOW list is an 82nd + British Shermans for when I'm playing Market Garden missions/scenarios, and MacArthur is one of my all time favourite Generals.

At the risk of being OT, I have a very low opinion of any American officer who decides to field cavalry against US veterans of WWI.

I resisted the urge to bring this up, but yeah, that has always bothered me. I am also bothered by his response to the Pearl Harbor attack. After he heard the news he, tragically, did almost nothing. Hours later the Japanese decimated his air units and any hope for holding the Phillipines was lost.

Omar Bradley is famous for not generally being an epic douche. This was so much out of character for a high ranking US or UK officer that the media didn't know what to do with him.

This is going way OT, but what happened to MacArthur at Pearl, has happened to a few military commanders. MacArthur's biographer, William Manchester, highlighted how Stonewall Jackson froze on the eve of Fredericksburg/Chancellorsville? Washington lost the plot at Brandywine, and Wellington froze somewhat at Badajoz (but recovered) so it has been known to happen.

anyway, back OT

I've always admired the fighting spirit and firepower of American troops, but I can't help feeling that when dealing with the insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, that the go forward mentality might have made things tougher. I'm not saying their idiots or anything but I've always understood counter-insurgency to be more of a 'thinking' way of fighting, rather than the battering ram approach. I could be wrong.

Iraq before the surge was frustrating, because lower level NCOs and Officers knew we weren't going about it the right way. However, the Generals and politicians were not interested in listening to anyone, so the change in tactics had to wait until General Petraeus and the "surge"

I'll put the rest in a spoiler, because it's more than a little off topic.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Some Americans may be surprised that other nations and individuals like their military, but I've always been a fan.

My favourite FOW list is an 82nd + British Shermans for when I'm playing Market Garden missions/scenarios, and MacArthur is one of my all time favourite Generals. Can't see the fuss about Omar Bradley though. Sorry.

As for Gatorade, awful, awful, stuff




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da Boss wrote:
To be fair, I think quite a lot of people have a chip on their shoulder about the American military. It's pretty common, "tall poppy syndrome" in a way I suppose. Every force likes to big themselves up, and sometimes that involves running others down.

I thought the article was quite refreshing because it didn't fall into that trope.

No true Frenchman would say that about America. A true Frenchman would acted in a similar manner to that annoying Frenchman in monty python and the holy grail

Gatorade is horrible, horrible stuff to drink given the absurd amount of sugars it contains. These aren't necessarily bad, but unless you're a bloody Olympian or Super Soldier and thus can burn the stuff out before it settles in your body, you probably shouldn't be drinking it.

I loved the bit about how they don't understand us, and sometime we don't even understand one another.
But is cool to see if the military getting respect, god knows they deserve it from other countries.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I've always admired the fighting spirit and firepower of American troops, but I can't help feeling that when dealing with the insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, that the go forward mentality might have made things tougher. I'm not saying their idiots or anything but I've always understood counter-insurgency to be more of a 'thinking' way of fighting, rather than the battering ram approach. I could be wrong.

Again, I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read somewhere that the counter-insurgency manual used by the US military is based on one developed by the SS. Which might explain a few things.

On Topic: I'm not in the military, but from what I gather, US and UK troops tend to work generally well together due to the long history of co-operation between our two countries and cultural similarity. Members of the public occasionally have negative opinions about the US military when they hear about rape statistics, civilians being killed, friendly-fire etc, and I think that's probably a normal response to those sort of headlines, free from the context of having worked alongside US servicemen. With that being said, as I recall, my good pal mattyrm has had his live saved on at least one occasion by the USAF and there are a lot of Brits living now, veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, who probably wouldn't be if it wasn't for the actions of our cousins across the Atlantic, so fair play to them I say.

 motyak wrote:
It's all good Emil, I can get pretty defensive about this sort of topic.

Shake and make up



On with the thread!

I approve this GIF.

"What's a matter Dillon? Been pushing too many pencils?"

 Easy E wrote:

 motyak wrote:
It's all good Emil, I can get pretty defensive about this sort of topic.

Shake and make up



On with the thread!

I approve this GIF.

"What's a matter Dillon? Been pushing too many pencils?"

Bonus points for a good film linked GIF

Its reading things like this that makes me happy that the US and UK share so many joint operations, we both have a lot to learn from each other and for the most part able to enjoy friendly banter.

Your guys do a great job as does ours and long may that continue. It's very easy to fall into the trap of "who has the bigger stick or who is best with said stick" but really it means nothing, as long as we both use said sticks to beat the other guy

I am glad the US helped us out 70 years ago (even though Hollywood suggests it was just you ) as it meant less brits had to die including my family members. I am also glad that they help our troops out now as it means my friends have returned home safe from tours and are able to share a beer.

So big hats off to all our men and women on both sides of the pond that make us sleep a bit easier at night o7

Daston wrote:
Its reading things like this that makes me happy that the US and UK share so many joint operations, we both have a lot to learn from each other and for the most part able to enjoy friendly banter.

Your guys do a great job as does ours and long may that continue. It's very easy to fall into the trap of "who has the bigger stick or who is best with said stick" but really it means nothing, as long as we both use said sticks to beat the other guy

I am glad the US helped us out 70 years ago (even though Hollywood suggests it was just you ) as it meant less brits had to die including my family members. I am also glad that they help our troops out now as it means my friends have returned home safe from tours and are able to share a beer.

So big hats off to all our men and women on both sides of the pond that make us sleep a bit easier at night o7

Well, things did start going a whole lot better for you once you stopped wearing bright read on the battlefield

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Daston wrote:
Its reading things like this that makes me happy that the US and UK share so many joint operations, we both have a lot to learn from each other and for the most part able to enjoy friendly banter.

Your guys do a great job as does ours and long may that continue. It's very easy to fall into the trap of "who has the bigger stick or who is best with said stick" but really it means nothing, as long as we both use said sticks to beat the other guy

I am glad the US helped us out 70 years ago (even though Hollywood suggests it was just you ) as it meant less brits had to die including my family members. I am also glad that they help our troops out now as it means my friends have returned home safe from tours and are able to share a beer.

So big hats off to all our men and women on both sides of the pond that make us sleep a bit easier at night o7

Well, things did start going a whole lot better for you once you stopped wearing bright read on the battlefield

I will never forget the Brit that got shot in arse by his own guys in a engagement

Edit

I still believe it was our beloved Matty for all the "F" bombs that were dropped

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Daston wrote:
Its reading things like this that makes me happy that the US and UK share so many joint operations, we both have a lot to learn from each other and for the most part able to enjoy friendly banter.

Your guys do a great job as does ours and long may that continue. It's very easy to fall into the trap of "who has the bigger stick or who is best with said stick" but really it means nothing, as long as we both use said sticks to beat the other guy

I am glad the US helped us out 70 years ago (even though Hollywood suggests it was just you ) as it meant less brits had to die including my family members. I am also glad that they help our troops out now as it means my friends have returned home safe from tours and are able to share a beer.

So big hats off to all our men and women on both sides of the pond that make us sleep a bit easier at night o7

Well, things did start going a whole lot better for you once you stopped wearing bright read on the battlefield

Well we did own a fair % of the world wearing red so wasn't all bad....plus no other nation could match our gun lines :p its like the imperial guard nerf all over again lol

Even though it is supposedly translated, it doesn't sem to me that it's written by a foreign military service member. Sounds kinda fake to me

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Even though it is supposedly translated, it doesn't sem to me that it's written by a foreign military service member. Sounds kinda fake to me

Well there is a link to the original but it is, unsurprisingly, in French.

 EmilCrane wrote:
Saw this on another forum, nice to see some respect for the US Military from other nations. I know the Aussies have a massive chip on their shoulder about the Americans and it gets a bit shameful at times.

Quiet, ya damned Kiwi!

 Jihadin wrote:
Been in 82nd, 101st, and 160th.
82nd and 101st in peace time and war.

No damn difference who was better, living up to a reputation, exceeding past combat history, and/or riding on one's reputation.
Regardless of deployments once one boots hits the ground its "Do your damn job and do it well."

I get the feeling that the 82nd and 101st aren't the kind of units to rest on their laurels, and work every day to earn the reputations they have.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Quiet, ya damned Kiwi!

We haven't even got a big enough shoulder for a chip

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Even though it is supposedly translated, it doesn't sem to me that it's written by a foreign military service member. Sounds kinda fake to me

I've just read the original french text, and while the english translation is quite faithful, it fails to express how well written it was originally. "Well written" as in "written by someone that writes for a living".

 HudsonD wrote:

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Even though it is supposedly translated, it doesn't sem to me that it's written by a foreign military service member. Sounds kinda fake to me

I've just read the original french text, and while the english translation is quite faithful, it fails to express how well written it was originally. "Well written" as in "written by someone that writes for a living".

Maybe it was written by a French military Public Affairs official then?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 EmilCrane wrote:
Saw this on another forum, nice to see some respect for the US Military from other nations. I know the Aussies have a massive chip on their shoulder about the Americans and it gets a bit shameful at times.

Quiet, ya damned Kiwi!

 Jihadin wrote:
Been in 82nd, 101st, and 160th.
82nd and 101st in peace time and war.

No damn difference who was better, living up to a reputation, exceeding past combat history, and/or riding on one's reputation.
Regardless of deployments once one boots hits the ground its "Do your damn job and do it well."

I get the feeling that the 82nd and 101st aren't the kind of units to rest on their laurels, and work every day to earn the reputations they have.

That's been my experience here at the 101st. These guys train hard.

 djones520 wrote:
Maybe it was written by a French military Public Affairs official then?

Or he was a vet that became a writer. Not like there has never been someone who served who was also an author. Honestly not sure what saying it was 'well written...to well written' is supposed to mean to be honest. Maybe it was a compliment or maybe they don't think vets can write?

 Ahtman wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Maybe it was written by a French military Public Affairs official then?

Or he was a vet that became a writer. Not like there has never been someone who served who was also an author. Honestly not sure what saying it was 'well written...to well written' is supposed to mean to be honest. Maybe it was a compliment or maybe they don't think vets can write?

Ah we can write if we want to, we can leave your friends behind
Cause your friends don't write and if they don't write
Well they're are no friends of mine
I say, we can go where we want to, A place where they will never find
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind,
And we can write

And we can write
Or sing!

We can go when we want to
The night is young and so am I
And we can dress real neat from our hats to our feet
And surprise 'em with the victory cry

Say, we can act if we want to
If we don't, nobody will
And you can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile

And say, we can write, we can write
Everything's out of control
We can write, we can write
They're doing it from pole to pole
We can write, we can write
Everybody look at your hands
We can write, we can write
Everybody's taking the chance

Safety Write
Oh well, the fancy write
Ah yes, the fancy write

We can write if we want to
We've got all your life and mine
As long as we abuse it, never gonna lose it
Everything'll work out right

I say, we can write if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
Because your friends don't write and if they don't write
Well, they're no friends of mine

And say, we can write, we can write
Everything's out of control
We can write, we can write
They're doing it from pole to pole
We can write, we can write
Everybody look at your hands
We can write, we can write
Everybody's taking the chance


*bows*

 djones520 wrote:

 HudsonD wrote:

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Even though it is supposedly translated, it doesn't sem to me that it's written by a foreign military service member. Sounds kinda fake to me

I've just read the original french text, and while the english translation is quite faithful, it fails to express how well written it was originally. "Well written" as in "written by someone that writes for a living".

Maybe it was written by a French military Public Affairs official then?

That would be my guess.

 Ahtman wrote:

Or he was a vet that became a writer. Not like there has never been someone who served who was also an author. Honestly not sure what saying it was 'well written...to well written' is supposed to mean to be honest. Maybe it was a compliment or maybe they don't think vets can write?

He doesn't read like somebody who likes to write and share his experiences, talented or not. He reads like a trained PR writer.

Can't see the fuss about Omar Bradley though. Sorry.

He was a solid officer (probably one of the most solid in US military history). Unfortunately he was fighting in the same war as men of great personality. MacArthur, Patton, Rommel, Monty etc. Omar was so plain in comparison.

I'm also afraid I must inform you that MacArthur was a douche and his firing came far too late /historicalcontext

Some authors with military experience that you may have heard of.

J.D. Salinger, United States Army
Isaac Asimov, United States Army
Pierre Boulle, British Special Forces
Arthur C. Clarke, Royal Air Force
Joseph Heller, United States Army Air Corps
Frank Herbert, U.S. Navy
L. Ron Hubbard, U.S. Navy
James Jones, United States Army
Norman Mailer, United States Army
Gore Vidal, United States Army
Kurt Vonnegut, United States Army
Harvey Shapiro, United States Army Air Corps

This is by no means a comprehensive list. Can we stop with the "this is written too well to be somebody in the military" comments.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

I get the feeling that the 82nd and 101st aren't the kind of units to rest on their laurels, and work every day to earn the reputations they have.

No... but they're also ridiculously annoying with their "heritage"


Also... yeah, MacArthur was ridiculously "horrible" as a person.... I blame Japan's weirdness on him.

It's the fawning style that makes me doubt the source slightly. The first person I thought of was Edward Bernays, strangely.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:



Also... yeah, MacArthur was ridiculously "horrible" as a person.... I blame Japan's weirdness on him.

That's pretty much accurate. The cultural laws MacArthur foisted onto Japan at the end of the war are a direct cause of how wierd their porn gets.

squidhills wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:



Also... yeah, MacArthur was ridiculously "horrible" as a person.... I blame Japan's weirdness on him.

That's pretty much accurate. The cultural laws MacArthur foisted onto Japan at the end of the war are a direct cause of how wierd their porn gets.

I wouldn't say that's the only weird thing to come out of japan, but yeah.... He was "forced" to remain stationed in Japan, but Macarthur wanted to live in the US, so he forced the US into Japan (baseball, music, etc... pretty much any aspect of american life you can think of, he tried to bring in)

 EmilCrane wrote:
Saw this on another forum, nice to see some respect for the US Military from other nations. I know the Aussies have a massive chip on their shoulder about the Americans and it gets a bit shameful at times.

Really?

I worked with some AU soliders in my various deployments and never njoticed any kind of animousity, what are their general complaints?

 Supertony51 wrote:

 EmilCrane wrote:
Saw this on another forum, nice to see some respect for the US Military from other nations. I know the Aussies have a massive chip on their shoulder about the Americans and it gets a bit shameful at times.

Really?

I worked with some AU soliders in my various deployments and never njoticed any kind of animousity, what are their general complaints?

Good money says our "Attitude"

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Some Americans may be surprised that other nations and individuals like their military, but I've always been a fan.

My favourite FOW list is an 82nd + British Shermans for when I'm playing Market Garden missions/scenarios, and MacArthur is one of my all time favourite Generals. Can't see the fuss about Omar Bradley though. Sorry.

As for Gatorade, awful, awful, stuff




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da Boss wrote:
To be fair, I think quite a lot of people have a chip on their shoulder about the American military. It's pretty common, "tall poppy syndrome" in a way I suppose. Every force likes to big themselves up, and sometimes that involves running others down.

I thought the article was quite refreshing because it didn't fall into that trope.

Try some "Rip It"' you'll love those

No true Frenchman would say that about America. A true Frenchman would acted in a similar manner to that annoying Frenchman in monty python and the holy grail

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:

 Supertony51 wrote:

 EmilCrane wrote:
Saw this on another forum, nice to see some respect for the US Military from other nations. I know the Aussies have a massive chip on their shoulder about the Americans and it gets a bit shameful at times.

Really?

I worked with some AU soliders in my various deployments and never njoticed any kind of animousity, what are their general complaints?

Good money says our "Attitude"

Maybe, but from my experience, AU troops were just as cocksure as we were. It was something I admired them for actually. they didn't try to act like they were more sophisticated then us, they joked and got down just like we did.

 Albatross wrote:

On Topic: I'm not in the military, but from what I gather, US and UK troops tend to work generally well together due to the long history of co-operation between our two countries and cultural similarity. Members of the public occasionally have negative opinions about the US military when they hear about rape statistics, civilians being killed, friendly-fire etc, and I think that's probably a normal response to those sort of headlines, free from the context of having worked alongside US servicemen. With that being said, as I recall, my good pal mattyrm has had his live saved on at least one occasion by the USAF and there are a lot of Brits living now, veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, who probably wouldn't be if it wasn't for the actions of our cousins across the Atlantic, so fair play to them I say.

Fun fact, USMC Officer Candidate School's PT program is run by a British Royal Marine. We have an exchange program set up. When I was at OCS, I never learned his name, he was just 'The Color Sergeant' to us candidates, but he was pretty badass.

 Supertony51 wrote:

Maybe, but from my experience, AU troops were just as cocksure as we were. It was something I admired them for actually. they didn't try to act like they were more sophisticated then us, they joked and got down just like we did.

I also have VERY limited experience with the Aussies, and they seemed quite a bit like us, but they ate even better at their compound than I did normally... (seriously, we were just stopping for fuel and that sort of thing, but ended up getting dinner with them, it was amazing)